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@ Biff The Understudy
I have been at a mosque in Germany once. The people seemed to be nice. However, the majority did not know any German at all. And I also got a minttea, but it's not easy ordering anything at cafeteria there when the whole menu card is in Turkish and the owner speaks only Turkish. That's also when I learned about the other activities offered there, which are also offered only in Turkish...
All of this left by me the impression that these people were excluding themselves from society, which is a pity...
On December 02 2009 21:41 Biff The Understudy wrote:
...
There is a real problem with poverty. And it happens that people the most vulnerable to poverty are immigrants, and that lot of them are muslim. French society is horribly unfair, as are all western societies today. If you are arab, if you come from a shitty suburb, there is just no way that you will get another job than working in a fast food. You go to a shitty school, cops are fucking awful with you, you are basically fucked.
...
Yes, poverty is a major issue among immigrants. And truly you are most likely to face discrimination if you are black or Arab. But I have to disagree with you that all Western societies are "horribly unfair". Being a first generation immigrant myself and met enough others like me, I have to say that Germans are quite tolerant and open towards foreigners. True, I am neither black, nor Arab, but coming from East Europe is also not exactly a great advantage.
Anyway, at my school (which was neither a bad school, nor something special) we had almost 20% foreigners, also several Arabs. And I have never seen that anyone was discriminated against. Teachers as well the other children were absolutely fair with everybody.
Now I go to univerity. It is quite a good university and there are 12% foreigners here. There are people from everywhere here: East Asia, Arabic world, Africa, basically from every continent (if I remember right, there are people form over 100 countries at my university).
So it is possible to "make it" as a foreigner. And in Germany you even receive state "subsidy" if you cannot afford going to university. So I think that the situation here is pretty fair (although not completely fair).
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He? Completely missed the discussion here.
This wasn't about minarets. Quite frankly no one actuality gives a fuck about them. I'm shure most of my countrymen never even saw one, or knew that we already had four of them for quite some time before this "issue" came up.
No this was about giving the people the opportunity to give out a "fuck you card". And oh suprise they did! They didn't even had to leave their homes to do it. Because if there is anything the mediocre white man loves more than complaining about his situation its blaming other people for his situation.
And now we have all these "proud" figures who used their voices in unity to pull out the middle finger. Because we don't put up with your "shit" anymore". Because if you don't speak one of our 4 languages (depends on where you are) you shouldn't be allowed to be here in the first place. Because you bomb shit (right?). Because you stink. Because your wife looks like a ninja. Because you hit wifes. Because you shoot and rob and yell and stink and hit on our girls and you stole my cat and because you buy stuff from the same places i do and you are always poor and because you steal jobs (i dont want) and pay more for insurance (i don't need) and...of course...because you pray to a different god. One that probably isn't even white!
Religion. Islam is of no problem in this country, it never was nor will it ever be. The problem is the integration process. If you want to be a part of something you need to be as open and direct as possible. 30 years ago my father moved in a white neighborhood, a small village without any special attributes. When they moved in, about 10 friends, all tibetan like him, helped my family move stuff into our house. White people watched closely behind closed windows and showed no intentions at all to greet the brown people. You know what he did? On the same day he went from door to door introducing himself, inviting them for coffee and eliminated all their fears at once. It took him only a few hours to integrate himself and his family.
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On December 02 2009 21:41 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 21:23 ggrrg wrote:On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it On December 02 2009 00:06 ggrrg wrote:
Yeah sure. It's far better to let them completely bar themselves from society. Since the mosques offer a place to spend time and pass activities, guess where many turks decide to spend all of their time? I honestly cannot imagine how they would integrate in Germany if they continue like this...
Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously. I understand that in Singapore it works out well with all the religions. And I would love it if did the same way in Europe. I cannot speak about the situation in all European countries, but in Germany it actually does work out with the exception of a large portion of the Muslim community. Germany is a melting pot and has been like that for decades already, but for some reason the Muslim (actually mainly the Turkish Muslim community) seem to be inable to integrate into society like everybody else does. How the hell do these people, which reject the native culture and do not give shit about it, dare to demand that their culture replaces the native one? Sorry, but I am totally opposed to creating a parallel society! And another "great" aspect of mosques. If you have read my posts before that than you know where the funds for most mosques in Germany come from. These mosques are basically "exclusively Turkish". How the hell, can they speak about "freedom of religion" then? And I cannot yet stop "praising" our mosques. When I was in the US, I saw that some church communities organized group excursions to some interesting places. Well, mosques in Germany also organize group trips! But these trips go back to Turkey so the people can vote there for the party in control (because all large Turkish mosques in Germany are under the control of the "Presidency of Religious Affairs" that is a government organization). Yeah, and since there government so caring for them, the Turkish prime minister visited Germany last year. He spoke in front of tens of thousand of Turks and WARNED them not to become assimilated into German society!!! He described this verbally with the words "crime against humanity"! (sure bacause then he would have less votes next election) On the previous pages, I read comments like "religion is useless, it was only created to control people". Well, it is still used as a political tool. And here my most recent favorite from Turkey: The government officially demands that their "Muslim brothers" (these are the exact words used in the announcement) take their money out of Swiss banks and put it into Turkish banks because of the intolerance of Switzerland. Yes, the government that has banned the construction of churches, synagogues, and other non-Muslim temples is complaining about intolerance... I don't know about Germany, but I know about France. There are no problems with Muslims, at all. There is a mosque in my district, in Paris, with a minaret, and everything is very nice. I go sometimes eat a lookoom or having a mint tea, they are very friendly, very moderate. Because they are accepted, and that the mosquee is beautiful. There is a real problem with poverty. And it happens that people the most vulnerable to poverty are immigrants, and that lot of them are muslim. French society is horribly unfair, as are all western societies today. If you are arab, if you come from a shitty suburb, there is just no way that you will get another job than working in a fast food. You go to a shitty school, cops are fucking awful with you, you are basically fucked. People don't think in term of social struggle anymore. Thirty years ago, all theses people would have syndicate, and would be engaged in politics. But now, it's not possible anymore, so they just burn cars and listen to fundamentalists preachers. So people get scared and start to complain about islam. But islam has been there for 50 years, and it has never been a problem. Now, you can't put all muslims in one bag, as this guy did a few post ago, and saying that muslim coming from Marocco are responsible for Palestinians bombing Israel (and even though, there are serious reasons for that) or Iranians opressing women.
oh yeah, you always see the world through your rainbow glasses? You never had any problems with forced marriage? rather not. you (france) just gave a fuck because it never really reached the public.
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On December 02 2009 20:12 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 19:44 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 16:18 ghostWriter wrote:On December 02 2009 15:59 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 15:50 ghostWriter wrote:On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote:On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it On December 02 2009 00:06 ggrrg wrote:
Yeah sure. It's far better to let them completely bar themselves from society. Since the mosques offer a place to spend time and pass activities, guess where many turks decide to spend all of their time? I honestly cannot imagine how they would integrate in Germany if they continue like this...
Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously. I know that you're just saying this to exaggerate what has been said just to show these people how close-minded they're being, but for some strange reason, I find myself agreeing with many of these positions, even if it's only in principle. It's to be expected. But the point is that disagreeing with one aspect of a system does not mean you can get rid of the entire system. America may say, "we don't want honour killings here, that would be murder." But it will not say, "honour killings are a part of Islam, so we're banning any symbols of Islam here." Likewise you might say, "we do not support civilians carrying arms, we ban that here." But that should not turn into "The right to bear arms is an American thing, therefore we ban all symbols of America." It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world. Even so, you cannot deny that radical Islam is a legitimate threat and the fears of people in Switzerland aren't completely unfounded, even if they may be somewhat misguided. Also, I believe that immigrants should abide by the desires of their hosts within reasonable bounds, if only to be good neighbors because they are guests. Banning minarets is different from banning mosques. It's similar to how schools ban du-rags, they aren't making a statement against black people in general, they are merely trying to combat the "gangster" image, even though the articles of clothing themselves don't hurt anyone. In any case, even if it is a misguided fear, the Muslims should be able to understand people's concerns, especially when the society they come from tend to be much more intolerant towards others. On December 02 2009 16:07 Velr wrote:
It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world.
It's the societies that pay the most and let you do whatever the fuck you want in your privacy, nothing else... But dream on. Agreed, the world is not as utopian as the way you put it, the Storyteller. utopian? who's being utopian? you have, let's say, 4 billion people on earth. you make 1 billion of them feel unwelcome, not because of talent but because they're different. don't you think you're going to be at a disadvantage compared to a country that welcomes them all? that is america's competitive advantage - it welcomes everyone with talent. scientists, economists, professionals from all over the world work there and help the economy. oh god, where do these people crawl from?... Are you fucking living in 1890?, USA has one of the most strict migration policies in the whole planet, its actually the only country in the whole god damn world world who is actively building a wall to avoid migration.
I didn't say they were allowing everyone to migrate, I said the migration policy is based on talent and not race or religion. The US doesn't say we don't want Muslims here, they say we don't need more unskilled labour because we have enough of that. But we'd like a shitload of bright people, thank you very much, and we don't care what their religion is.
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On December 02 2009 23:08 The Storyteller wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 20:12 baal wrote:On December 02 2009 19:44 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 16:18 ghostWriter wrote:On December 02 2009 15:59 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 15:50 ghostWriter wrote:On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote:On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it On December 02 2009 00:06 ggrrg wrote:
Yeah sure. It's far better to let them completely bar themselves from society. Since the mosques offer a place to spend time and pass activities, guess where many turks decide to spend all of their time? I honestly cannot imagine how they would integrate in Germany if they continue like this...
Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously. I know that you're just saying this to exaggerate what has been said just to show these people how close-minded they're being, but for some strange reason, I find myself agreeing with many of these positions, even if it's only in principle. It's to be expected. But the point is that disagreeing with one aspect of a system does not mean you can get rid of the entire system. America may say, "we don't want honour killings here, that would be murder." But it will not say, "honour killings are a part of Islam, so we're banning any symbols of Islam here." Likewise you might say, "we do not support civilians carrying arms, we ban that here." But that should not turn into "The right to bear arms is an American thing, therefore we ban all symbols of America." It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world. Even so, you cannot deny that radical Islam is a legitimate threat and the fears of people in Switzerland aren't completely unfounded, even if they may be somewhat misguided. Also, I believe that immigrants should abide by the desires of their hosts within reasonable bounds, if only to be good neighbors because they are guests. Banning minarets is different from banning mosques. It's similar to how schools ban du-rags, they aren't making a statement against black people in general, they are merely trying to combat the "gangster" image, even though the articles of clothing themselves don't hurt anyone. In any case, even if it is a misguided fear, the Muslims should be able to understand people's concerns, especially when the society they come from tend to be much more intolerant towards others. On December 02 2009 16:07 Velr wrote:
It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world.
It's the societies that pay the most and let you do whatever the fuck you want in your privacy, nothing else... But dream on. Agreed, the world is not as utopian as the way you put it, the Storyteller. utopian? who's being utopian? you have, let's say, 4 billion people on earth. you make 1 billion of them feel unwelcome, not because of talent but because they're different. don't you think you're going to be at a disadvantage compared to a country that welcomes them all? that is america's competitive advantage - it welcomes everyone with talent. scientists, economists, professionals from all over the world work there and help the economy. oh god, where do these people crawl from?... Are you fucking living in 1890?, USA has one of the most strict migration policies in the whole planet, its actually the only country in the whole god damn world world who is actively building a wall to avoid migration. I didn't say they were allowing everyone to migrate, I said the migration policy is based on talent and not race or religion. The US doesn't say we don't want Muslims here, they say we don't need more unskilled labour because we have enough of that. But we'd like a shitload of bright people, thank you very much, and we don't care what their religion is.
yeah, thats why communist were persecuted, right?
and why should it be better to deny someone because of his skill than his religion?
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On December 02 2009 20:12 Velr wrote:
@Storyteller:
You know that last years global competition ranking had Switzerland at 1 and the USA at 2?
You know there are tons of companies that make Woman feel unwelcome in the higher ranks, if this is by accident or a decision doesn't matter here. The higher ranks in companies are often still a boys club. I don't think this is good, but it is that way.
I also highly doubt not having a tower on a Mosque or being against Burqas, "forcing" Womans rights and various other stuff is holding the elite back from going anywhere... Except it's an elite you don't want anyway.
And i highly doubt that it has more of an effect on the *elite* than the US foreign politics of the last 20-30 years or various other factors.
Btw: If europeans talk about *typical* muslim immigrants it's not an *elite* thats coming or is allready here, it was/is cheap labour force with no/nearly no education, more, if at all, comparable to your mexican/south american immigration..
Sure it's ranked top. That was before this minaret nonsense, right? Excluding an entire community may not show problems straight away, but it will.
And yes, there are companies that discriminate against women, blacks etc. And they are putting themselves at a disadvantage. So what if it happens? It doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Enforcing women's rights for everyone is not holding back the elite. But when you make an entire community feel unwelcome because you think a few of them discriminate against women, you're missing out on talent.
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On December 02 2009 23:08 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 21:41 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 02 2009 21:23 ggrrg wrote:On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it On December 02 2009 00:06 ggrrg wrote:
Yeah sure. It's far better to let them completely bar themselves from society. Since the mosques offer a place to spend time and pass activities, guess where many turks decide to spend all of their time? I honestly cannot imagine how they would integrate in Germany if they continue like this...
Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously. I understand that in Singapore it works out well with all the religions. And I would love it if did the same way in Europe. I cannot speak about the situation in all European countries, but in Germany it actually does work out with the exception of a large portion of the Muslim community. Germany is a melting pot and has been like that for decades already, but for some reason the Muslim (actually mainly the Turkish Muslim community) seem to be inable to integrate into society like everybody else does. How the hell do these people, which reject the native culture and do not give shit about it, dare to demand that their culture replaces the native one? Sorry, but I am totally opposed to creating a parallel society! And another "great" aspect of mosques. If you have read my posts before that than you know where the funds for most mosques in Germany come from. These mosques are basically "exclusively Turkish". How the hell, can they speak about "freedom of religion" then? And I cannot yet stop "praising" our mosques. When I was in the US, I saw that some church communities organized group excursions to some interesting places. Well, mosques in Germany also organize group trips! But these trips go back to Turkey so the people can vote there for the party in control (because all large Turkish mosques in Germany are under the control of the "Presidency of Religious Affairs" that is a government organization). Yeah, and since there government so caring for them, the Turkish prime minister visited Germany last year. He spoke in front of tens of thousand of Turks and WARNED them not to become assimilated into German society!!! He described this verbally with the words "crime against humanity"! (sure bacause then he would have less votes next election) On the previous pages, I read comments like "religion is useless, it was only created to control people". Well, it is still used as a political tool. And here my most recent favorite from Turkey: The government officially demands that their "Muslim brothers" (these are the exact words used in the announcement) take their money out of Swiss banks and put it into Turkish banks because of the intolerance of Switzerland. Yes, the government that has banned the construction of churches, synagogues, and other non-Muslim temples is complaining about intolerance... I don't know about Germany, but I know about France. There are no problems with Muslims, at all. There is a mosque in my district, in Paris, with a minaret, and everything is very nice. I go sometimes eat a lookoom or having a mint tea, they are very friendly, very moderate. Because they are accepted, and that the mosquee is beautiful. There is a real problem with poverty. And it happens that people the most vulnerable to poverty are immigrants, and that lot of them are muslim. French society is horribly unfair, as are all western societies today. If you are arab, if you come from a shitty suburb, there is just no way that you will get another job than working in a fast food. You go to a shitty school, cops are fucking awful with you, you are basically fucked. People don't think in term of social struggle anymore. Thirty years ago, all theses people would have syndicate, and would be engaged in politics. But now, it's not possible anymore, so they just burn cars and listen to fundamentalists preachers. So people get scared and start to complain about islam. But islam has been there for 50 years, and it has never been a problem. Now, you can't put all muslims in one bag, as this guy did a few post ago, and saying that muslim coming from Marocco are responsible for Palestinians bombing Israel (and even though, there are serious reasons for that) or Iranians opressing women. oh yeah, you always see the world through your rainbow glasses? You never had any problems with forced marriage? rather not. you (france) just gave a fuck because it never really reached the public.
So instead of doing something about forced marriages like enforcing women's rights, it's a good idea to kick all Muslims out. Great idea!
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On December 02 2009 23:15 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 23:08 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 20:12 baal wrote:On December 02 2009 19:44 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 16:18 ghostWriter wrote:On December 02 2009 15:59 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 15:50 ghostWriter wrote:On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote:On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it On December 02 2009 00:06 ggrrg wrote:
Yeah sure. It's far better to let them completely bar themselves from society. Since the mosques offer a place to spend time and pass activities, guess where many turks decide to spend all of their time? I honestly cannot imagine how they would integrate in Germany if they continue like this...
Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously. I know that you're just saying this to exaggerate what has been said just to show these people how close-minded they're being, but for some strange reason, I find myself agreeing with many of these positions, even if it's only in principle. It's to be expected. But the point is that disagreeing with one aspect of a system does not mean you can get rid of the entire system. America may say, "we don't want honour killings here, that would be murder." But it will not say, "honour killings are a part of Islam, so we're banning any symbols of Islam here." Likewise you might say, "we do not support civilians carrying arms, we ban that here." But that should not turn into "The right to bear arms is an American thing, therefore we ban all symbols of America." It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world. Even so, you cannot deny that radical Islam is a legitimate threat and the fears of people in Switzerland aren't completely unfounded, even if they may be somewhat misguided. Also, I believe that immigrants should abide by the desires of their hosts within reasonable bounds, if only to be good neighbors because they are guests. Banning minarets is different from banning mosques. It's similar to how schools ban du-rags, they aren't making a statement against black people in general, they are merely trying to combat the "gangster" image, even though the articles of clothing themselves don't hurt anyone. In any case, even if it is a misguided fear, the Muslims should be able to understand people's concerns, especially when the society they come from tend to be much more intolerant towards others. On December 02 2009 16:07 Velr wrote:
It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world.
It's the societies that pay the most and let you do whatever the fuck you want in your privacy, nothing else... But dream on. Agreed, the world is not as utopian as the way you put it, the Storyteller. utopian? who's being utopian? you have, let's say, 4 billion people on earth. you make 1 billion of them feel unwelcome, not because of talent but because they're different. don't you think you're going to be at a disadvantage compared to a country that welcomes them all? that is america's competitive advantage - it welcomes everyone with talent. scientists, economists, professionals from all over the world work there and help the economy. oh god, where do these people crawl from?... Are you fucking living in 1890?, USA has one of the most strict migration policies in the whole planet, its actually the only country in the whole god damn world world who is actively building a wall to avoid migration. I didn't say they were allowing everyone to migrate, I said the migration policy is based on talent and not race or religion. The US doesn't say we don't want Muslims here, they say we don't need more unskilled labour because we have enough of that. But we'd like a shitload of bright people, thank you very much, and we don't care what their religion is. yeah, thats why communist were persecuted, right? and why should it be better to deny someone because of his skill than his religion?
Because you need skilled labour, duh. You honestly cannot see the difference between hiring smart people no matter what their religion and not hiring Muslims no matter how smart they are?
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On December 02 2009 23:20 The Storyteller wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 20:12 Velr wrote:
@Storyteller:
You know that last years global competition ranking had Switzerland at 1 and the USA at 2?
You know there are tons of companies that make Woman feel unwelcome in the higher ranks, if this is by accident or a decision doesn't matter here. The higher ranks in companies are often still a boys club. I don't think this is good, but it is that way.
I also highly doubt not having a tower on a Mosque or being against Burqas, "forcing" Womans rights and various other stuff is holding the elite back from going anywhere... Except it's an elite you don't want anyway.
And i highly doubt that it has more of an effect on the *elite* than the US foreign politics of the last 20-30 years or various other factors.
Btw: If europeans talk about *typical* muslim immigrants it's not an *elite* thats coming or is allready here, it was/is cheap labour force with no/nearly no education, more, if at all, comparable to your mexican/south american immigration..
Sure it's ranked top. That was before this minaret nonsense, right? Excluding an entire community may not show problems straight away, but it will. And yes, there are companies that discriminate against women, blacks etc. And they are putting themselves at a disadvantage. So what if it happens? It doesn't mean it's a good idea. Enforcing women's rights for everyone is not holding back the elite. But when you make an entire community feel unwelcome because you think a few of them discriminate against women, you're missing out on talent.
wow, your post is so full of shit.
Excluding an entire community? Sorry but is a minaret an entire community? If a Nightclub only let you in if you are not wearing sneakers he is excluding all poor ppl, right? More nonsense plz.
By discriminating women companys put themself at disadvantage? Sorry but how old are you? You never saw a business from inside? Women get payed way less (about 20% in Switzerland), if something it puts those companys at an advantage because they get cheap workers. Why the fuck you think all conveyor band work is done by women?
A few of them discriminate woman? Wtf, most of them do. Some do it excessive (beating them up) some of them do it light weight (not helping in the household at all, keeping money mostly for themself). It's not a few, don't belittle that problem!
Trippleposting sucks, thats what the edit button is there for!
On December 02 2009 23:24 The Storyteller wrote:
Because you need skilled labour, duh. You honestly cannot see the difference between hiring smart people no matter what their religion and not hiring Muslims no matter how smart they are?
It's both discriminating, isn't it? I think both is equally false, don't misinterpret my words!
On December 02 2009 23:21 The Storyteller wrote:So instead of doing something about forced marriages like enforcing women's rights, it's a good idea to kick all Muslims out. Great idea!
Hmmm, did I ever say kicking out muslims is the way to fight forced marriage? DONT FUCKING PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH!
You are very stereotyped indeed. Not only women get fucked by forced marriage but also men (boys), they have more rights, but sometimes they are fucked too. I was responding to his "nice world in france" type of writing which is simply not true.
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[QUOTE]On December 02 2009 21:23 ggrrg wrote:
I understand that in Singapore it works out well with all the religions. And I would love it if did the same way in Europe.
QUOTE]
It works out in Singapore because we work hard to make it that way. We are a secular country surrounded by Muslims. We are a Chinese majority surrounded by Malays and Indonesians. We have our fair share of religious debates. We just had a Christian group try to take over a secular organisation and push their own agenda. We have come close to having Muslim terrorists blow up our train stations. We had a Taoist priest talk his friends into a suicide pact. We have problems. We have fundamentalists. But we work to solve these problems without making an entire community "feel unwelcome".
There are GOOD reasons why Europeans feel threatened by Muslims and feel that they don't like Islam. But there are better ways to solve the problems than by attacking Muslims as a whole, instead of specific things they don't like.
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On December 02 2009 23:32 The Storyteller wrote:
But there are better ways to solve the problems than by attacking Muslims as a whole, instead of specific things they don't like.
wow dude you are really really stupid. Just think over your words a little bit please.
1. Swiss ppl (20%, 57% of voters who voted) dont like minarets.
2. Those ppl banned minarets, which is a specific thing of muslims they dont like.
3. Muslims as a whole are still very welcome in switzerland and can still have mosques and such.
get some brain, thx.
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On December 02 2009 23:28 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 23:20 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 20:12 Velr wrote:
@Storyteller:
You know that last years global competition ranking had Switzerland at 1 and the USA at 2?
You know there are tons of companies that make Woman feel unwelcome in the higher ranks, if this is by accident or a decision doesn't matter here. The higher ranks in companies are often still a boys club. I don't think this is good, but it is that way.
I also highly doubt not having a tower on a Mosque or being against Burqas, "forcing" Womans rights and various other stuff is holding the elite back from going anywhere... Except it's an elite you don't want anyway.
And i highly doubt that it has more of an effect on the *elite* than the US foreign politics of the last 20-30 years or various other factors.
Btw: If europeans talk about *typical* muslim immigrants it's not an *elite* thats coming or is allready here, it was/is cheap labour force with no/nearly no education, more, if at all, comparable to your mexican/south american immigration..
Sure it's ranked top. That was before this minaret nonsense, right? Excluding an entire community may not show problems straight away, but it will. And yes, there are companies that discriminate against women, blacks etc. And they are putting themselves at a disadvantage. So what if it happens? It doesn't mean it's a good idea. Enforcing women's rights for everyone is not holding back the elite. But when you make an entire community feel unwelcome because you think a few of them discriminate against women, you're missing out on talent. wow, your post is so full of shit. Excluding an entire community? Sorry but is a minaret an entire community? If a Nightclub only let you in if you are not wearing sneakers he is excluding all poor ppl, right? More nonsense plz. By discriminating women companys put themself at disadvantage? Sorry but how old are you? You never saw a business from inside? Women get payed way less (about 20% in Switzerland), if something it puts those companys at an advantage because they get cheap workers. Why the fuck you think all conveyor band work is done by women? A few of them discriminate woman? Wtf, most of them do. Some do it excessive (beating them up) some of them do it light weight (not helping in the household at all, keeping money mostly for themself). It's not a few, don't belittle that problem!
The campaign to ban minarets was not run on the premise that they don't look nice. It was associated with Islam, and the message was "we don't like Muslims". You're telling all Muslims, no matter their specific beliefs, that we don't like you here, no matter how talented you are. If the campaign was "let's ban forced marriages because it is against women's rights", that would be different. That would be saying we don't care whether you are Muslim or not. We welcome you, but we feel that women should have equal rights, regardless of religion.
I never said that a FEW companies discriminate against women. I don't care how many of them do. The fact is that if one company discirminates and another does not, the second company is going to get more talent. I don't know what fucked up world you come from, but not all conveyor belt work is done by women.
As for your last point, no matter how many Muslims you think discriminate against women, making all Muslims feel unwelcome is stupid. You should enforce laws for equal rights for ALL people, not get rid of all Muslims because a few/some/most of them discriminate against women.
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On December 02 2009 23:36 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 23:32 The Storyteller wrote:
But there are better ways to solve the problems than by attacking Muslims as a whole, instead of specific things they don't like. wow dude you are really really stupid. Just think over your words a little bit please. 1. Swiss ppl (20%, 57% of voters who voted) dont like minarets. 2. Those ppl banned minarets, which is a specific thing of muslims they dont like. 3. Muslims as a whole are still very welcome in switzerland and can still have mosques and such. get some brain, thx.
And they banned them because...? They don't look nice? They might fall down? Nope, they banned them as a sign of "Islamisation", a sign that they don't like Muslims.
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On December 02 2009 23:41 The Storyteller wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 23:28 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 02 2009 23:20 The Storyteller wrote:On December 02 2009 20:12 Velr wrote:
@Storyteller:
You know that last years global competition ranking had Switzerland at 1 and the USA at 2?
You know there are tons of companies that make Woman feel unwelcome in the higher ranks, if this is by accident or a decision doesn't matter here. The higher ranks in companies are often still a boys club. I don't think this is good, but it is that way.
I also highly doubt not having a tower on a Mosque or being against Burqas, "forcing" Womans rights and various other stuff is holding the elite back from going anywhere... Except it's an elite you don't want anyway.
And i highly doubt that it has more of an effect on the *elite* than the US foreign politics of the last 20-30 years or various other factors.
Btw: If europeans talk about *typical* muslim immigrants it's not an *elite* thats coming or is allready here, it was/is cheap labour force with no/nearly no education, more, if at all, comparable to your mexican/south american immigration..
Sure it's ranked top. That was before this minaret nonsense, right? Excluding an entire community may not show problems straight away, but it will. And yes, there are companies that discriminate against women, blacks etc. And they are putting themselves at a disadvantage. So what if it happens? It doesn't mean it's a good idea. Enforcing women's rights for everyone is not holding back the elite. But when you make an entire community feel unwelcome because you think a few of them discriminate against women, you're missing out on talent. wow, your post is so full of shit. Excluding an entire community? Sorry but is a minaret an entire community? If a Nightclub only let you in if you are not wearing sneakers he is excluding all poor ppl, right? More nonsense plz. By discriminating women companys put themself at disadvantage? Sorry but how old are you? You never saw a business from inside? Women get payed way less (about 20% in Switzerland), if something it puts those companys at an advantage because they get cheap workers. Why the fuck you think all conveyor band work is done by women? A few of them discriminate woman? Wtf, most of them do. Some do it excessive (beating them up) some of them do it light weight (not helping in the household at all, keeping money mostly for themself). It's not a few, don't belittle that problem! The campaign to ban minarets was not run on the premise that they don't look nice. It was associated with Islam, and the message was "we don't like Muslims". You're telling all Muslims, no matter their specific beliefs, that we don't like you here, no matter how talented you are. If the campaign was "let's ban forced marriages because it is against women's rights", that would be different. That would be saying we don't care whether you are Muslim or not. We welcome you, but we feel that women should have equal rights, regardless of religion. I never said that a FEW companies discriminate against women. I don't care how many of them do. The fact is that if one company discirminates and another does not, the second company is going to get more talent. I don't know what fucked up world you come from, but not all conveyor belt work is done by women. As for your last point, no matter how many Muslims you think discriminate against women, making all Muslims feel unwelcome is stupid. You should enforce laws for equal rights for ALL people, not get rid of all Muslims because a few/some/most of them discriminate against women.
No the message was NOT "we don't like muslims". This is the message YOU take out of it. The message was "we don't want you force your stuff on us". Actually this is not done on muslim buildings. In a village near my home there is a very very strict building law. You may not build ANYTHING no matter if it's muslim or buddhist or capitalistic or whatever the fuck you want if it does not fit into the villages "picture". The only difference is, that minarets are banned in whole switzerland now instead of specific places like this village. So if this minaret ban would've never happened, you would still NEVER see any minaret in that village.
The problem with forced marriage for example is not that we wouldn't say "we don't like it", its already firbidden in switzerland. The problem is different, the muslim ppl go back to pakistan f.e. force marriage on their kid there come bakc married and swiss law is never enforced on them, THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
In switzerland if you visit any production company (like choclate, paper, electric assembling) at least 90% are women. When I did this in Italy it didnt look any different. I dont know how many companys you have seen, I've seen a lot and it was ALWAYS like this not a single example doing it different.
It's not my oppinion how many muslims threat their women bad. I had and still have a lot of muslim friends, as I was always playing football/gaming/hanging with them. In almost all the housholds the mother couldn't speak german, the fathers always had all new and shiny stuff, the woman always the same old cloths. The woman always had to do what the man told them, he gave a shit what the woman said. Again I NEVER said get rid of all muslims, STOP FUCKING LYING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH, I said that you tell bullshit if you claim that only a few muslims threat their wifes like shit!
As I said, you dont need to double post, I also read your edits.
On December 02 2009 23:47 The Storyteller wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 23:36 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 02 2009 23:32 The Storyteller wrote:
But there are better ways to solve the problems than by attacking Muslims as a whole, instead of specific things they don't like. wow dude you are really really stupid. Just think over your words a little bit please. 1. Swiss ppl (20%, 57% of voters who voted) dont like minarets. 2. Those ppl banned minarets, which is a specific thing of muslims they dont like. 3. Muslims as a whole are still very welcome in switzerland and can still have mosques and such. get some brain, thx. And they banned them because...? They don't look nice? They might fall down? Nope, they banned them as a sign of "Islamisation", a sign that they don't like Muslims.
They banned them because they don't fit in. As I already explained, in switzerland (and western austria f.e. too) we ban shit we think doesn't fit in. This was done on muncipal level until now when it was done nation wide. In western austria you have 0 chance to build a minaret, why dont you rant on them? Because it was not big in the media? Becuase it gets shut down on muncipal level?
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On December 02 2009 23:54 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:
I said that you tell bullshit if you claim that only a few muslims threat their wifes like shit!
Okay, I totally misunderstood you, you're saying not a few Muslims treat their wives like shit. You're saying LOTS of Muslims treat their wives like shit. Have fun in your nice village.
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On December 02 2009 23:58 The Storyteller wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 23:54 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:
I said that you tell bullshit if you claim that only a few muslims threat their wifes like shit!
Okay, I totally misunderstood you, you're saying not a few Muslims treat their wives like shit. You're saying LOTS of Muslims treat their wives like shit. Have fun in your nice village.
You want to tell me that most muslims do not treat their wives bad? Or do you consider minor stuff as holding money back from your wife and therefor limiting her freedom not as treating her bad? Is only beating them up treating them bad?
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Your country (and mine) was founded with principles of religious freedom, and separation of church and state.
Separation of Church and State, how funny...
Other countries were not. You are judging Switzerland for not being like us. Well screw off with that. It's their country. It pisses me off when Euros meddle in our politics, so I'm sure as hell not going to turn around and do it to any of them.
I don't see people in here bitching about Saudi Arabia and their "tolerance". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Switzerland is justified because someone else did it. More like we don't mess with the Saudis, and we shouldn't mess with the Swiss.
Obviously we can argue whether or not we think what they did is wrong or justified or whatever, but it's their country and if they don't feel like coddling every religious group they don't have to.
That's exactly what I'm doing, I'm saying that it's just horrible that Switzerland would do this. Obviously the Saudi's aren't exempt from this just because they're Saudi Arabia, but Switzerland is a very western and modern country and has always claimed to be so, and now they go back and do this. It's hypocritical, to say the least.
Would you care to post some numbers for us to back up your claim? How many civilians have Christian extremists killed in the last decade? How many Christian theocracies exist on earth? How many people have those theocracies killed, mutilated or imprisoned for exercising their basic human rights?
Shall we go back throughout history and count? I'm pretty damn confident in saying Christianity has ruined more lives than Islam throughout history, but we don't just completely ban it, do we? No, we just don't let the extreme radicals take over and do crazy shit.
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Even so, you cannot deny that radical Islam is a legitimate threat and the fears of people in Switzerland aren't completely unfounded, even if they may be somewhat misguided. Also, I believe that immigrants should abide by the desires of their hosts within reasonable bounds, if only to be good neighbors because they are guests. Banning minarets is different from banning mosques. It's similar to how schools ban du-rags, they aren't making a statement against black people in general, they are merely trying to combat the "gangster" image, even though the articles of clothing themselves don't hurt anyone. In any case, even if it is a misguided fear, the Muslims should be able to understand people's concerns, especially when the society they come from tend to be much more intolerant towards others.
So the Muslims should just roll over and take injustices like this? Yes, obviously the banning of Minarets isn't the most drastic thing that could've happened, but the point is that it starts a slope that gets very slippery.
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just for your information, theoretically it's still allowed to build "watchtowers" on top of buildings and stuff.
This banning, if it will prevail before our own constitution, which I doubt, has like no effect.
I hate the result of the vote, but people here are exagerating it.
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On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 00:06 ggrrg wrote:
Yeah sure. It's far better to let them completely bar themselves from society. Since the mosques offer a place to spend time and pass activities, guess where many turks decide to spend all of their time? I honestly cannot imagine how they would integrate in Germany if they continue like this...
Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously.
None of your analogies are about cultural integration, and banning a piece of architecture isn't banning an entire religion.
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