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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On October 15 2009 22:49 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Thanks to global warming, winter might be less harsh :D It's not that bad, you still have sunlight (as in not complete darkness) 4-5 hours per day during the winter  | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On October 15 2009 22:52 RoyW wrote: "The cost of utilities should be higher to reflect the fact that people shouldn't be living there if they want to remain connected to society." What? Why? It's a geographic political area that formed into a country long ago. Why should they have to pay more. It's like charging them extra tax for the fire department or police because they live further away. "I have to say that the Finnish government's use of "right to internet access" is the most naive and stupid invocation of "right" possible. It's is so indicative of nanny governments around the world to be so arrogant as to set people's priorities on spending money for them. It isn't that people will have the right to choose to get broadband, but rather the government will get broadband for them whether they want it or not." Haha, hmm, let's look at scandanavia and it's nanny governments. Hmm, let's look at America and it's poisoned-since-mccarthyism view of socialised policies America is poisoned by its military tradition. Scandinavia is not being help by its nanny government. Both are quite rotten. As for relative cost of broadband, you seriously think that all of them should get the same exact service? What if the country needed to bring broadband to the 2 people living on the edge of the arctic ocean at great cost? What if at the same price the country could improve its broadband network to doctor's clinics such that the other 5 million people now have the option of having appointments with their doctors at home? Is that a trade off that people are willing to make? The proper analogy for the police and fire station is whether or not the government should build and staff stations to service 20 people that lives 50 miles away from all other living souls. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
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RoyW
Ireland270 Posts
"What if the country needed to bring medical assistance to the 2 people living on the edge of the arctic ocean at great cost?" The argument isn't about the how far away people are, it's about whether the government should deem broadband as something it's willing to provide it's people. If you agree with that then the relatively larger costs for doing so in some areas is irrelevant. "What if at the same price the country could improve its broadband network to doctor's clinics such that the other 5 million people now have the option of having appointments with their doctors at home? Is that a trade off that people are willing to make?" You're pulling that either/or out of your ass. The broadband isn't being implemented at the expense of your wonderfully constructed hypothetical. It's as ridiculous as me saying 'it's better to spend the money on this than limos for government people' and using that as an argument for its implementation. And to call Scandanavia rotten is ridiuclous. I have only been to Sweden, but I can honestly say that Stockholm is by far the best city I have ever visisted. Except the nightlife, which was pretty average. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11557 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28784 Posts
and scandinavia is greatly helped by its "nanny government" and scandinavians are more positively inclined towards politicians than any other people.. describing scandinavia as rotten shows a complete lack of understanding of either the world or scandinavia, or a strong desire to utter redundant phrases (as the only way you can legitimately make the claim that scandinavia is rotten, is if you consider the entire world rotten. ) | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10871 Posts
The Scandinavian countries are probably the best places to live for the average citizen in the world... Nannystate? Seems to work just fine. | ||
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RoyW
Ireland270 Posts
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17715 Posts
On October 15 2009 20:41 lazz wrote: why are northern european countries so fucking awesome? im seriously considering moving there later in life. although the weather is kinda dreary, but I kinda like that. Well, they might seem this way. But ABBA had to move out from there because they had to pay over 100% taxes  Socialist countries can be great, but they have their downsides too (like in the example above, taxes in Sweden and Norway - not sure about Finland and other countries there - can reach horrendeous proportions). Also, some interesting stuff: However, despite Bruegel, distorted academic studies and the European media’s praise, the efficiency of the major Scandinavian economies is a myth. The Swedish and Finnish welfare states have been going through a long period of decline. In the early 1990s they were virtually bankrupt. Between 1990 and 1995 unemployment increased five-fold. The Scandinavian countries have not been able to recover. Source: http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/510 Europeans and Scandinavians work approximately 1500 hours per employed person per year compared to the American figure of about 1850. In the year 2000, the employment to population ratio in Scandinavia is approximately 0.70, which is the same as in the U.S. Europe has an employment to population ratio of only 0.60 in 2000. We can see Scandinavia’s similarity to the U.S. workforce occurs mostly on the extensive margin. Yet, Scandinavia has the highest tax rates while the United States has the lowest. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28784 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17715 Posts
On October 16 2009 00:41 Integra wrote: OVER 100%? So if they made 100 million they had to pay 101 millions, yea that makes sense... It was more like 160% The more you earn, the more you have to pay up + there's additional taxes for various things and they can total to more than you actually earn. I know it's dumb, but that's the reality. It's a bit similar in Poland but not to this proportions. Basing on what you earn you have to pay: In 2008: > : <= N/A : 44 490 : 19% minus 586.85 44 490 : 85 528 : 7866.25 + 30% of what you get over 44 490 85 528 : N/A: 20 177.65 + 40% of what you get over 85 528 In 2009: > : <= N/A : 85 528 : 18% minus 556.02 85 528 : N/A: 14 839.02 + 32% of what you get over 85 528 @Drone: Well, I wasn't talking about the usual everyday person. But rich people can be troubled by that as they feel it more. Edit: Made it more readable. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28784 Posts
and taxes in scandinavia will _never_ amount to more than your total earnings. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
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Zavior
Finland753 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17715 Posts
On October 16 2009 00:56 Liquid`Drone wrote: rich people are not troubled by paying 40% instead of 30% of their income in taxes. that is absolute bullshit. and taxes in scandinavia will _never_ amount to more than your total earnings. Rich people are quite often troubled with this. After all it can make a difference if you earn 600 or 700k after the taxes. No? With higher numbers the disparity is even worse, that's why so many rich people hide their income or try to generate it in "tax heavens". | ||
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
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