Broadband soon to be a legal right in Finland - Page 10

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zatic

Zurich15358 Posts

October 19 2009 08:23 GMT

#181

On October 19 2009 17:06 Phrujbaz wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes Zatic and you understandably, but naively assume that that means what it says. It does not. They mean to make broadband access a legal entitlement.

And you know this how? Don't get me wrong it may very well happen how you see and I am not even saying it is unlikely. Just want to read where you know this from. If it's just your opinion you should say that. Oh and please don't use Integra as your source he obviously has no idea what he is talking about.

As far as I can tell they will do both - make Internet access a legal right and while they are at it, also an entitlement if you will. As I said on page 1/2 of this thread the latter part is unimportant compared to the implications of the first part.

Also this is just their way of doing things. I don't think if they will in the end have public internet anyone will deny that they socialized internet access, so I still don't get what the false pretence would be.

Phrujbaz

Netherlands512 Posts

October 19 2009 08:54 GMT

#182

Zatic: I think it's likely that socializing broadband will at first make Finland more likely to reject laws such as "three strikes and you're out" that revoke internet access from file sharers. If internet access is important enough to socialize, then it will be important enough not to revoke if someone is filesharing. This is pure speculation, it is nowhere mentioned in any article, newspaper or official statement. But, in this sense, if you are indifferent to socializing broadband, it is a step in the right direction, because socialists will think internet access more important.

What irks me is that it is perfectly possible to make internet access a legal right without socializing internet. That is why I think this is just pushing socialism, nothing more. Especially because over the long term Finland will follow along with the rest of Europe anyway if it comes to implementing "three strikes and you're out" legislation - socializing broadband will not prevent it for very long if at all.

Confusing legal right and legal entitlement here is I think what you should be careful off. I'm very happy that you applaud internet access being a legal right. I do too. I'm not so happy that this has to be tied to socializing broadband; I'd rather have a separate discussion about socializing broadband than about making it a legal right. If socialism here is accepted simply because it is tied to something useful, then I think that is a bad thing. If we are to accept socialism, it should be because socialism is good.

zatic

Zurich15358 Posts

October 19 2009 09:21 GMT

#183

Alright fair enough. Just stop saying I am confusing things when I said 10 pages ago I don't want the discussion go towards legal entitlement -> socialism / free market (boooooring) but instead talk about the impact of internet access being a legal right.

Glad to see we have the same opinion on this after all.

rKos

Finland131 Posts

October 19 2009 11:57 GMT

#184

On October 15 2009 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
I am waiting for that 2015 100MBit broadband thing. Though its going to cost some money (because usually government supports building infrastructure certain % amount). But 5 years, dont know if this going to happen.

You'll be waiting for a long time, the government keeps promising this sort of shit but never does it follow up on it. If the government kept it's word everyone would have a minium of 8mb connections already, the moon would have been towed to Finland and unicorns would be running wild in the streets.

The funny thing about this piece of news is that nobody in Finland cares about it, no Finnish newspapers reported it, I only heard about it from American sites. That's because this is the sort of meaningless bullshit our great parliament does daily. Tobacco will also be eradicated from our great country by 2015, nobody still cares.

TanGeng

Sanya12364 Posts

October 19 2009 17:59 GMT

#185

When I found the follow up details about it, the plan seemed very very conservative.

200 Million Euro Infrastructure plan.
33% funded by Finnish Parliament. Rest imposed on local municipalities and ISPs.
Cellular distribution to remote regions.
Focused entirely on availability not pricing or affordability.
100 Mbps is only for within 2km of high speed hubs - and in 5 years.

That's enough time for broadband bandwidth to naturally increase by a factor of 10 through market forces especially if there's any real demand for it. 4G cellular distribution also has nominal bandwidth of 100 Mbps but all the cellular networks are so lossy so sustained rates will be much lower. The technology for all this infrastructure already exists and it's already deployed for most of Finland's population. It only changes outlooks for parts of the country where there is no economic justification for investment in such infrastructure.

It's politics as usual. Allocate a large amount of money, and asymmetrically benefit the rural areas more than urban areas. I'm sure the most populous places in Finland already have 100 Mbps available. They will have hit their targets 5 years early. But at least members of Finnish parliament can feel good about themselves for having decreed something for the rest of the country to have to carry out.

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