EPTill stick to SC on this forum in the future..
China's National Day Military Parade - Page 9
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
ill stick to SC on this forum in the future.. | ||
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
On October 02 2009 17:42 dongfeng wrote: Im far from a nationalist being born in hk and but id argue the credibility of this statement. In terms of what? And also source? Mao may have had shitty internal policies but he got nukes for China, which were quite necessary considering the geopolitical instability at the time. uh, the great fail leap forward, 3 million starved to death? the destruction of Confucian ethics? the smoking rubble of demolished art and sculptures of great historic value? the pyre of burned books? a generation of uneducated people who were basically robbed of the prime of their lives and now do not have the necessary skills to re-integrate into the workforce? getting nukes for china is nothing. Nukes are cheap, even north korea can afford it. It is DengXiaoping's economic policies that are carrying China forward. Mao's shenanigan policies after repelling the Japanese cost us dearly. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
Can we blame their tactic during a time of war when NOBODY and I mean NOBODY want to do the hard work (which is fighting Japanese). I think majority of resentment for them are due to this. They had minimal influence and military outside of Canton and they can only unify the country by granting concessions to warlords. I think most young Chinese now days don't distinguish this fact. It's the warlords that did most of the damage to Nationalist's reputation and ironically also the warlords who fought the hardest against the Japanese. (If you don't know what I'm talking about then refer to battles fought in Hunan). Chiang Kai-shek is a brilliant and probably the most underrated leader in modern China's history. His work was done when Mao and his communists came into power but don't forget It was Chiang who tied the country together in that awful 20 years when circumstances was much more difficult. I don't agree with some of his decisions but he had little resources and political means to do otherwise. Nationalists fought hard and fought face to face against Japanese aggressions. It is simply unfair to discredit them just because they fought/died under a different party flag. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27174 Posts
On October 02 2009 18:19 MuffinDude wrote: Does that give them any more right to go screw around others? If thats the case, then we should fuck over iraq because that place is in a turmoil! And guess what? The reason why China did so much damage to itself in the past 60 years was also partly because european/americans screwed around with china! This doesn't make any sense at all. I was making the point that colonial powers were hostile to China before Mao and the turmoil. And Europeans caused Mao and his regime to kill 45 million people in 30 years? I know Chinese policy has been to play the victim over the past decade or so, but even this is a bit of a reach. That regime was homegrown. I should know better than to argue about China in general, but I have a tough time with some of these statements. edit- On October 02 2009 18:37 Railxp wrote: uh, the great fail leap forward, 3 million starved to death? the destruction of Confucian ethics? the smoking rubble of demolished art and sculptures of great historic value? the pyre of burned books? a generation of uneducated people who were basically robbed of the prime of their lives and now do not have the necessary skills to re-integrate into the workforce? getting nukes for china is nothing. Nukes are cheap, even north korea can afford it. It is DengXiaoping's economic policies that are carrying China forward. Mao's shenanigan policies after repelling the Japanese cost us dearly. Uh... 3 million? Not to beat a dead horse, but you need to add a zero to that and add another handful. They rest of your points I agree with. Iam really interested in the studies that will come out about China in the future in regards to the effects of Mao's populace on culture. The contrast between reality and the state image of Mao is really interesting, and I look forward to seeing how the cult of Mao is interpreted in the future. There are not a lot of leaders who retain their aura so long after death. | ||
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
On October 02 2009 18:19 MuffinDude wrote: Does that give them any more right to go screw around others? If thats the case, then we should fuck over iraq because that place is in a turmoil! And guess what? The reason why China did so much damage to itself in the past 60 years was also partly because european/americans screwed around with china! Although I hate mao personally, I think his greatest achievement was getting rid of the corrupt nationalists. I wouldn't mind people not knowing about other country's history, as I don't know a lot of other country's history, but it annoys the hell out me when people think that they're all virtuous and shit because thats all they learned and a lot of sins were omitted from the curriculum. I don't hate white people, but it just pisses me off at all the comments that they make about China when China became like this partly because of white people. Why do you try to victimize yourself and China so much? Yeah, it's true that China was abused pretty hard by foreigners for awhile, but it's ridiculous to imply that the things that were Mao's fault had anything to do with the West. His decisions were totally his own, and in fact, if he had listened to people like Deng Xiaoping and Liu Shaoqi who were actually preaching economic ideology from the West, a lot of the damage could potentially have been avoided. Whether you realize it or not, you suffer from the same skewed, biased perceptions that you're accusing other people of. You can't single out white people for hurting China and expect to be taken seriously at all, ESPECIALLY when you don't even mention Japan, and then accuse other people of not getting all the facts from their "curriculum." But that's irrelevant, because the point is that you're trying to play the victim and creating further conflict in a situation where there shouldn't even be conflict. You shouldn't be pointing fingers or singling out anyone. That just makes you look like a bitter, spoiled kid who was told something by someone (likely a bitter family member) and blindly believed it without ever looking at the facts objectively, which is basically just ignorance. Why put yourself into that position and make people think that way about you when you're probably a pretty smart guy? Anyway, this is such a terrible subject to get into in a thread that should be about appreciating China's enormous success over recent years... Here's to hoping that the shit storm in here subsides and that China continues to prosper  | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
Even without European intervention, the country was collapsing on itself, soon or later civil wars and changing of dynasty would happen and people would still die. It's written in the history books, not exactly uncommon. European played a part in this but it's unfair to blame them for the decades of turmoil. No European power at the time was strong enough or had the will to colonise and control the entire country. (refer to European intervention in Manchuria). | ||
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
On October 01 2009 15:17 Slow Motion wrote: And lets not get bent out of shape in a pissing contest about what country is the center of the world. Not only is it stupid, it is a clear insult to Niger, obviously the center of the world as shown by this map. ![[image loading]](http://atmoz.org/img/world-map1.gif) a beacon of light in this otherwise terrible discussion | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27174 Posts
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CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
fuck ya | ||
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betaben
681 Posts
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/china_celebrates_60_years.html | ||
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Empyrean
17070 Posts
On October 02 2009 19:08 haduken wrote: China was weak and ill with social and economical problems and that's the cause for European exploitation. Even without European intervention, the country was collapsing on itself, soon or later civil wars and changing of dynasty would happen and people would still die. It's written in the history books, not exactly uncommon. European played a part in this but it's unfair to blame them for the decades of turmoil. No European power at the time was strong enough or had the will to colonise and control the entire country. (refer to European intervention in Manchuria). This. It's almost similar to what happened with Ottoman Turkey. Sure, they were still nominally regarded as a power by the end of the 19th century, but they had no real means of legitimately protecting itself from pushy European interests. By the end of the Qing Empire, China had grown so weak, with a virtually unsalvageable political system that it was virtually inevitable that an external power would take advantage of its huge amounts of resources. @Manifesto, I'd venture to say that the Taiping Rebellion resulted in more loss of life than the Great Leap Forward, in terms of relative deaths to the population. (Although the Great Leap Forward was still probably more costly in terms of stalled growth). | ||
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lOvOlUNiMEDiA
United States643 Posts
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eStoniaNBoY
Switzerland439 Posts
Taiwan & Singapore | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
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modesT
23 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On October 02 2009 05:20 Masamune wrote: China has already caught up to the US and other European countries in terms of military technology, that's why they buy equipment from Russia. But as far as I know, Timbuktu is also on the verge of rivaling the American and Chinese military. In fact, they have new biological missiles, which when detonated, fly over enemy territories and release a newly bioengineered species of Cordyceps that affect Homosapiens. This causes its victims to find the highest altitude they can reach (usually skyscrapers in metropolises or barns in rural areas), where they die shortly after, releasing more of these deadly spores onto unknowing victims. What the shit, are you serious? edit: nvm I was trolled mad hard. | ||
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
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Failsafe
United States1298 Posts
in any case i'm a fan of china so add oil! | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
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