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On October 02 2009 11:59 .risingdragoon wrote:
lol, it ain't him muffindude. he's just a some guy on the internet, the imperialists from the last century were businessmen. England funded their industrialization on colonialism. anyway the cost of modernity has been high but China needed it and with no foreign controling elements. The Chinese managed both which is reason for praise already. Last I check there ain't no foreign military base in the Middle Kingdom. Feel me?
And no, it doesn't matter Masamune. Why do you have to be Chinese to care?
Do you really think it makes any difference how many times a country can destroy the earth? Nobody wants even 1/10 destroyed. Sounds like something a kid would say.
I'm tired. Muffindude posted something about how there is no sense in comparing the American and Chinese military when they can both wipe out humanity, but that's like saying there is no sense in comparing the temperature on Uranus to Neptune because they are too cold for humans to live on.
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It's funny how every topic mentioning china has to turn into a political discussion.
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On October 02 2009 12:21 DrainX wrote:
It's funny how every topic mentioning china has to turn into a political discussion.
world = politics
i like it.
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I agree that America should do this, the border tensions with Canada have started to escalate and it's time to show some muscle.
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On October 02 2009 12:14 Masamune wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2009 11:59 .risingdragoon wrote:
lol, it ain't him muffindude. he's just a some guy on the internet, the imperialists from the last century were businessmen. England funded their industrialization on colonialism. anyway the cost of modernity has been high but China needed it and with no foreign controling elements. The Chinese managed both which is reason for praise already. Last I check there ain't no foreign military base in the Middle Kingdom. Feel me?
And no, it doesn't matter Masamune. Why do you have to be Chinese to care?
Do you really think it makes any difference how many times a country can destroy the earth? Nobody wants even 1/10 destroyed. Sounds like something a kid would say. I'm tired. Muffindude posted something about how there is no sense in comparing the American and Chinese military when they can both wipe out humanity, but that's like saying there is no sense in comparing the temperature on Uranus to Neptune because they are too cold for humans to live on.
I think i'll argue against you just for fun.
A country's military fights in war; If a war between two countries is to protect those respective countries' people, and both countries can send nukes at each other and instantly wipe out a good portion of each others' people, then there is no point in comparing their militaries.
Your analogy doesn't work because comparing the temperatures of Uranus and Neptune does not only serve the purpose for pioneering human settlement (which is your point, obviously). War does only serve one purpose, and thus:
![[image loading]](http://yourargumentisinvalid.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/node/this_baloney_is_smiling.jpg)
User was temp banend for this post.
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On October 01 2009 15:45 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2009 15:26 Disregard wrote:
Anyone here from Southern China (Excluding Hong Kong and Macau)? Hunan motherfuckers whoo.
i once saw a restaurant sign that said Hunan Chile, but i read it as Human Chile. i'd laugh everytime i saw the sign untill i finally realized it said hunan
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On October 02 2009 13:01 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2009 12:14 Masamune wrote:On October 02 2009 11:59 .risingdragoon wrote:
lol, it ain't him muffindude. he's just a some guy on the internet, the imperialists from the last century were businessmen. England funded their industrialization on colonialism. anyway the cost of modernity has been high but China needed it and with no foreign controling elements. The Chinese managed both which is reason for praise already. Last I check there ain't no foreign military base in the Middle Kingdom. Feel me?
And no, it doesn't matter Masamune. Why do you have to be Chinese to care?
Do you really think it makes any difference how many times a country can destroy the earth? Nobody wants even 1/10 destroyed. Sounds like something a kid would say. I'm tired. Muffindude posted something about how there is no sense in comparing the American and Chinese military when they can both wipe out humanity, but that's like saying there is no sense in comparing the temperature on Uranus to Neptune because they are too cold for humans to live on. I think i'll argue against you just for fun. A country's military fights in war; If a war between two countries is to protect those respective countries' people, and both countries can send nukes at each other and instantly wipe out a good portion of each others' people, then there is no point in comparing their militaries. Your analogy doesn't work because comparing the temperatures of Uranus and Neptune does not only serve the purpose for pioneering human settlement (which is your point, obviously). War does only serve one purpose, and thus:
You missed Masamune's point entirely. He compared the likihood of one country using nukes in a war to the likelihood of humans want to settle on Uranus/Neptune. Having Nuclear weapons do not nullify the need of a military force. Nukes have very limited application and severe consequences. It is like you have a $1000000000000000 note, nice for bragging rights, but no-one is going to accept it and give you $999999999999912 in change.
So comparing the conventional military technology between US and China is still valid, thus there are continuous spending into these areas. Governments are not stupid.
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United States22883 Posts
On October 02 2009 13:44 potchip wrote:
You missed Masamune's point entirely. He compared the likihood of one country using nukes in a war to the likelihood of humans want to settle on Uranus/Neptune. Having Nuclear weapons do not nullify the need of a military force. Nukes have very limited application and severe consequences. It is like you have a $1000000000000000 note, nice for bragging rights, but no-one is going to accept it and give you $999999999999912 in change. Actually yes, that is entirely the point of nuclear weapons. The US could not keep up with the Soviet Union's military after WWII so we made the cheaper and more effective decision to develop nuclear weapons. They followed, and actually were even at one point, but soon fell behind because conventional militaries are much more expensive. There are obviously things certain advantages to a conventional army since you can't keep your own population in check with nuclear weapons, but you're severely underestimating their strategic importance. Someone just has to believe you're willing to use them, which is not as difficult as you'd think for many areas of the world.
So comparing the conventional military technology between US and China is still valid, thus there are continuous spending into these areas. Governments are not stupid.
This is still very true, though. I think there's also something to be said for reliability as well as bean counting numbers. I don't think there's much for the US to fear by way of force, but that's still irrelevant to all of this. What matters is that it's a nice day for China.
Enjoy your week(?) off.
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So today while waiting to get my ID card updated (my dad just retired from military), I had the pleasure of watching Fox News in the lobby. They were discussing how stupid it is for the empire state building, a great figure of American success, to light up in colors to celebrate this commie shit.
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I have to ask why so many are compelled to argue China's history/position one way or the other. The topic is the parade, not "let's compare China's past and present with those of other countries".
Also, for people who speak as if they were "knowledgeable", on the subject, why bash people who are actually from the country?
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On October 02 2009 15:06 Valentine wrote:
So today while waiting to get my ID card updated (my dad just retired from military), I had the pleasure of watching Fox News in the lobby. They were discussing how stupid it is for the empire state building, a great figure of American success, to light up in colors to celebrate this commie shit.
This commie shit is equivalent to your fourth of july shit made by bunch of whiners who didn't want to pay tax that was half as much as what the british were paying.
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On October 02 2009 05:20 Masamune wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2009 10:32 Masamune wrote:
I wish America did this. We probably have no clue about the kind of shit they have, with all their top secret technology and military-related stuff. It would be like looking into the future, only it would be the present.
I would probably only watch the Chinese version if it was the only program on the only television channel being broadcasted. It seems like it will just be a large bunch of people marching in unison, with second rate tech compared to the Americans, with the only message being how strong they are... China has already caught up to the US and other European countries in terms of military technology, that's why they buy equipment from Russia. But as far as I know, Timbuktu is also on the verge of rivaling the American and Chinese military. In fact, they have new biological missiles, which when detonated, fly over enemy territories and release a newly bioengineered species of Cordyceps that affect Homosapiens. This causes its victims to find the highest altitude they can reach (usually skyscrapers in metropolises or barns in rural areas), where they die shortly after, releasing more of these deadly spores onto unknowing victims.
Timbuktu isn't a country, smartass.
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On October 02 2009 15:34 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2009 05:20 Masamune wrote:On October 01 2009 10:32 Masamune wrote:
I wish America did this. We probably have no clue about the kind of shit they have, with all their top secret technology and military-related stuff. It would be like looking into the future, only it would be the present.
I would probably only watch the Chinese version if it was the only program on the only television channel being broadcasted. It seems like it will just be a large bunch of people marching in unison, with second rate tech compared to the Americans, with the only message being how strong they are... China has already caught up to the US and other European countries in terms of military technology, that's why they buy equipment from Russia. But as far as I know, Timbuktu is also on the verge of rivaling the American and Chinese military. In fact, they have new biological missiles, which when detonated, fly over enemy territories and release a newly bioengineered species of Cordyceps that affect Homosapiens. This causes its victims to find the highest altitude they can reach (usually skyscrapers in metropolises or barns in rural areas), where they die shortly after, releasing more of these deadly spores onto unknowing victims. Timbuktu isn't a country, smartass.
lol, it was a joke
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On October 02 2009 15:36 Loser777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2009 15:34 reincremate wrote:On October 02 2009 05:20 Masamune wrote:On October 01 2009 10:32 Masamune wrote:
I wish America did this. We probably have no clue about the kind of shit they have, with all their top secret technology and military-related stuff. It would be like looking into the future, only it would be the present.
I would probably only watch the Chinese version if it was the only program on the only television channel being broadcasted. It seems like it will just be a large bunch of people marching in unison, with second rate tech compared to the Americans, with the only message being how strong they are... China has already caught up to the US and other European countries in terms of military technology, that's why they buy equipment from Russia. But as far as I know, Timbuktu is also on the verge of rivaling the American and Chinese military. In fact, they have new biological missiles, which when detonated, fly over enemy territories and release a newly bioengineered species of Cordyceps that affect Homosapiens. This causes its victims to find the highest altitude they can reach (usually skyscrapers in metropolises or barns in rural areas), where they die shortly after, releasing more of these deadly spores onto unknowing victims. Timbuktu isn't a country, smartass. lol, it was a joke
Obviously; but to arbitrarily use a random city instead of a random country to make fun of a discussion about military makes it seem like he thinks it's a country.
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Osaka27172 Posts
On October 01 2009 14:15 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +
Ill add to this in saying the reason we dont learn much about china is because quite honestly the perception whether right or wrong is that they werent that important in the grand scheme of things. They were important in a sense that they had trade and were a stable power for an incredibly long time......but their sphere of influence just wasnt that big at least in the western world, probably because they kept to themselves militarily(afaik).
Thats more of what I was getting at when I was saying that china was never the center of the world.
This is coming from a "Western" viewpoint obviously.
Why are you so confident when you admit you never learned anything about this? China invented paper, gunpowder, the compass. Without the compass there never would have been any globalization. When Europe and China began to trade in the 17th cent. China only exported (similar to today) while silver flowed in. European goods that reached China were just curiosities. Pepper from China was the most sought after and expensive good in the world along with ceramics. Ceramics "changed the standards of aesthetics in Europe" (Vermeer's Hat) and European nations fought over trade with China. China didn't give a shit about them yet through this one sided trade the East Asian Company among others that pioneered significant international trade were created. Even philosophical ideas like Indra's Net were studied by literati like Voltaire who thought that China was a utopia of Sage-King rulers. The trade was so one sided that through until the mid 19th century that Britain literally initiated war with China to create unfair treaties so they wouldn't fall victim to their own greed for Chinese goods. Chinese art, clothes, and architecture became signs of status among the European upper class. China made tea popular in Britain ffs. Many many scholars attribute the beginnings of modernization to China. I can provide sources if you want.
Then we gave them opium.
You are all looking at this issue from a twenty first century, globalization-influenced view. There is no center of the earth before the colonial period, because states were generally insular other than trade. No power exerted force on an "international" (term used loosely) degree to a far greater extent than any of its rivals. China was an insular state, concerned with its own goings on. As was Europe, Arabia, the Americas, etc. Nobody had powerful influence outside their own respective regions (again excluding trade).
For those arguing technology, so what? Each civilization contributed technology to the collective of mankind. Egyptians made pyramids and cultivated the Nile before China was China. Does that make them better? Information has flowed back and forth across the world throughout history. To claim that China has not borrowed anything from others would be pure foolishness.
You arn't taught that americans/europeans were dirty mother fuckers who took advantage of disorganized china.
Finally to MuffinDude, while I can appreciate that outsiders have not always dealt well with China, lets not forget that China in the past 60 years has done more damage to itself than its contact with outside powers the entire span of history.
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On October 02 2009 17:06 Manifesto7 wrote:
Finally to MuffinDude, while I can appreciate that outsiders have not always dealt well with China, lets not forget that China in the past 60 years has done more damage to itself than its contact with outside powers the entire span of history.
Im far from a nationalist being born in hk and but id argue the credibility of this statement. In terms of what? And also source?
Mao may have had shitty internal policies but he got nukes for China, which were quite necessary considering the geopolitical instability at the time.
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No one is denying the *crimes* the colonial powers have than to the native people in their colonies. I don't know why people allways bring that up.
A Chinese claiming that other countries are not informed well enough about the history of other countries is very ironic. You are not even really informed, or at least your goverment tries to not inform, about some of the more recent history of your own country. So don't be so critical at people from other parts of the world not knowing everything about your history.
Btw: That China was a pretty early *high*-culture is very common knowledge.
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On October 02 2009 15:19 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2009 15:06 Valentine wrote:
So today while waiting to get my ID card updated (my dad just retired from military), I had the pleasure of watching Fox News in the lobby. They were discussing how stupid it is for the empire state building, a great figure of American success, to light up in colors to celebrate this commie shit. This commie shit is equivalent to your fourth of july shit made by bunch of whiners who didn't want to pay tax that was half as much as what the british were paying.
lolz
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Mao didn't get nukes for China. Expats did that for him and since Mao is not a scientist but a politician I guess it wouldn't be fair to credit that to him.
His single greatest achievement was stood up to the soviets when it mattered (after korean war) and playing off the cold war adversaries to China's advantage.
Look, Mao is not perfect, no one is and the state invested too much symbolism in him and that resulted him abusing his power.
He was a hard liner and a double edge sword. The country needed some one like him to unite the populace while suffered when he made wrong decisions.
He would make a good poker player. He didn't back down to anyone not even the soviets when the Russians were lining up their tanks on the border. This was also during years when everyone was trying to bully PRC.
When he died, the government of PRC restructured their system so no single person would ever held so much power ever again. So I guess in a weird way, He did some good after all otherwise we would end up like North Korea.
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On October 02 2009 17:06 Manifesto7 wrote:
Finally to MuffinDude, while I can appreciate that outsiders have not always dealt well with China, lets not forget that China in the past 60 years has done more damage to itself than its contact with outside powers the entire span of history.
Does that give them any more right to go screw around others? If thats the case, then we should fuck over iraq because that place is in a turmoil! And guess what? The reason why China did so much damage to itself in the past 60 years was also partly because european/americans screwed around with china!
On October 02 2009 18:17 haduken wrote:
Mao didn't get nukes for China. Smart expats who studied overseas did that for him.
His single greatest achievement was stood up to the soviets when it mattered (after korean war).
Although I hate mao personally, I think his greatest achievement was getting rid of the corrupt nationalists.
On October 02 2009 17:48 Velr wrote:
A Chinese claiming that other countries are not informed well enough about the history of other countries is very ironic. You are not even really informed, or at least your goverment tries to not inform, about some of the more recent history of your own country. So don't be so critical at people from other parts of the world not knowing everything about your history.
I wouldn't mind people not knowing about other country's history, as I don't know a lot of other country's history, but it annoys the hell out me when people think that they're all virtuous and shit because thats all they learned and a lot of sins were omitted from the curriculum.
I don't hate white people, but it just pisses me off at all the comments that they make about China when China became like this partly because of white people.
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EPT
