lmao I'd probably be a lot better if I just played more often. I have like no muscle memory though, and I can only read AR8-AR9 comfortably right now.

maru~

2345 Posts

March 14 2015 18:41 GMT

#6142

On March 14 2015 16:54 Cyro wrote:
That time freeze map is awful IMO for a spaced stream map

FD4D >>> Blue Zenith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time freeze

the streams dont fit in with music at all.. fd4d puts a circle on every sound, while this map just has streams which happen to be the same bpm as the music

Turn off the hitsounds and watch it on auto.

Cyro

United Kingdom20335 Posts

March 15 2015 00:34 GMT

#6143

https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2889037 :D

lmao I'd probably be a lot better if I just played more often. I have like no muscle memory though, and I can only read AR8-AR9 comfortably right now.

I'm a lot more uncomfortable on ar10 for most map styles than i am for lower AR's after playing for years, just because i didn't focus on being able to dance with 2 fingers at ar10

Turn off the hitsounds and watch it on auto.

I don't really feel it at all, maybe that's just me though

Cheatreal just got ranked!! It's 226pp for 95% on Extra diff (od8), 291 for SS

It's unranked atm, it will probably take ~8-20 days to be ranked and through qualified. I just SS'd the hardest part (last kiai time) aside from my finger locked up on the last stream and dropped half of it, but that's a silly mistake. If it gets ranked, i think i could make that my #1 score, because i seem comfortable getting ~98% acc on od8 and my top score is 246 right now

maru~

2345 Posts

March 16 2015 00:51 GMT

#6144

I think he could actually fc this if he puts in some grinding.

Bobbias

Canada1373 Posts

March 16 2015 06:54 GMT

#6145

I'm probably honestly more comfortable at AR10 than AR7. Once I was able to play AR8 I essentially quit plaything anything AR7 or below entirely. I've NEVER liked that AR is something mappers enforce on players. In my mind AR is not a core gameplay mechanic of osu (in the sense that the core gameplay mechanics are timing and aim), and therefore should be available for players to tweak to whatever they feel most comfortable with.

To clarify: what I mean is that a note has a specific location in space and time that it appears, and your job is to move your cursor to that spot and press a button as accurately as possible at the specific time. Anything else is secondary to this.

This is of course not reflective of the reality of things, and likely never will be, but I'm well aware of that. I just don't like how things are.

Cyro

United Kingdom20335 Posts

March 16 2015 07:44 GMT

#6146

I think it's very silly especially since the map ranking dudes are regularly putting strong suggestions to raise or lower AR on a map difficulty

Reimu is just really damn comfortable at 240bpm, i was gonna post that myself o_O

For vid above, i think ~1:56 - 2:02 is mapped quite well. I don't understand why somebody would want to map 1/4 beat deathstreams to that music though. Some of the same parts of music have vastly different mapping on that map

Also, i can play ar7 completely fine - but if you take a map that plays best at ar9-10 and make it ar7, then that's a problem.

It's kinda the same if you take a map that plays best at ar7-8 and make it ar10

i talked about this with valar before, a big problem with low AR maps (like ar6, 7) is that they're just bad, or way too "easy". Easy in the sense of there are very few circles, not that they're intuitive or require a low amount of skill. When a map is made of not particularly good quality that has circles for some beats/patterns but not for others, it can get very confusing. A lot of the good maps don't even start until ar8, but ar9 has been more of the standard for a long time - so going to maps natively mapped at lower AR's than that doesn't have very good results and can be especially confusing to a new player, who has to learn to read.

The game doesn't even start until ar8 IMO

Bobbias

Canada1373 Posts

March 16 2015 19:04 GMT

#6147

I totally agree with you on a lot of that. The vast majority of easier maps are just flat out bad no matter what AR they're on.

In mania, I would say the game really begins somewhere around 4 star stuff (very roughly, since this is where LN usage vs chord usage begins to make a big difference in star rating vs true difficulty).

It's maybe less pronounced in mania right now because we do have many mappers who know what they're doing making easier diffs. In mania everyone seems to be trying to make easier diffs easy on the player and avoid any potentially awkward patterns. I feel like awkward patterns should be used at all levels of skill, just used very judiciously at low skill levels. I have a feeling the same thing happens in standard.

Yorbon

Netherlands4272 Posts

March 16 2015 21:17 GMT

#6148

I have a fundamentally different approach to osu. The core 'mechanic' to me is reading. Everything else is technical stuff, less interesting. Osu gets interesting the moment the mapper has another conception of a map's rythm than you have. Are you conscious enough of what's on the screen to adjust for this difference? What's also interesting, is processing correctly while playing. Can you correctly assess the patterns you don't have to play yet, while you correctly play the circles you do have to at that moment? These questions becomes obviously more interesting the lower the ar is compared to note intensity.
I'm not interested in one's ability to mimic a metronome nor in one's muscle memory. These are technical tools to translate your reading into playing. And that ability to read is what I'd like to see in one's play.

Osu starts at higher ar indeed.

Bobbias

Canada1373 Posts

March 17 2015 05:26 GMT

#6149

To me, reading is still an important skill. I would say that reading is the next element beside the 'core' mechanics I mentioned before. Doesn't matter how fast you can alternate, or how well you can snap to a note if you can't make sense of what's on screen. However, I feel like reading is one of those skills where players can have radically different approaches, and should be allowed to use whatever works best for them. Some players work well with low AR because they are bad at reacting to fast changing stuff, whereas other players are particularly good at reacting to what's happening at very high ARs. Low AR gives the player a larger view of the mapper's patterns, where higher AR reduces this metaphorical window to a small slit. The exact same tradeoff shows up in mania, but there's never been any controversy about people being able to control what scroll speed they use.

vaL4r

Germany240 Posts

March 17 2015 05:32 GMT

#6150

On March 17 2015 06:17 Yorbon wrote:
Osu gets interesting the moment the mapper has another conception of a map's rythm than you have.

adsfhghjk

Tenox

Sweden128 Posts

March 17 2015 06:49 GMT

#6151

@Bobbias I've kind of been thinking the same thing Iately, and I agree with you.

If you look at Stepmania you could set your own scrolling rate of the arrows(equivalent to AR). This felt alot nicer because you could raise or lower the scrolling rate depending on where you felt comfortable atm. As skill goes up in Stepmania so does typically the need for raising the scrolling rate due to being easier to read once you can keep up with it.

The difference here is you didn't necessarily have to, but in Osu you kind of do as you get better and better and want to be able to play harder and harder maps due to this being a mappers choice not a players choice.

To me this becomes more of an issue to then get accustomed to the new AR more so than actually being able to trying to see how fast you are. I know that last statement sounds alittle iffy but I'm not sure how to better explain it so I'll just leave it there, but take it with a grain of salt. :D

Cyro

United Kingdom20335 Posts

March 17 2015 09:00 GMT

#6152

I think generally on osu, something artificially messing up your performance is quite bad. I hate trying to get high acc on od9-10 with hidden, for example - and generally if a map is ar9 but plays much easier at 9.5-10, i'd mod it there. I much prefer the mania system where you can just increase/decrease AR as you go and it's no big deal.

Also it's worth a mention that some of the more common and more often undiscovered hacks are people increasing the AR. It's invisible in a replay, because the player input is exactly the same

Yorbon

Netherlands4272 Posts

March 17 2015 12:37 GMT

#6153

I've never disagreed with ar being adjustable. I just think setting ar to the easiest value is boring in the long run.

Cyro

United Kingdom20335 Posts

March 17 2015 16:36 GMT

#6154

I think playing with reading skill (low density vs high density) is a lot of fun, but there's also fun in tearing away the barriers that hold you back from abusing aim, speed etc at other times.

Cyro

United Kingdom20335 Posts

March 19 2015 21:42 GMT

#6155

Unranking maps because there's too much of a gap between some of the difficulties - that's a new one

Bobbias

Canada1373 Posts

March 19 2015 23:21 GMT

#6156

Not for mania (that was the most bullshit rule ever, though now people have backtracked and claim it isn't a rule, despite it having been used as one earlier)

FlaShFTW

United States10495 Posts

March 19 2015 23:57 GMT

#6157

ideh know that the map team does these days. seems like they want to remove every difficult map on the list :/ first toumei elegy, then cheatreal then freeze. at least freeze is back up now but i want cheatreal and toumei to come back too.

Cyro

United Kingdom20335 Posts

March 20 2015 13:20 GMT

#6158

Cheatreal is going back up, ar10 od8.5

i'm kinda glad it's od8.5 - if it was 9+ it would be kinda annoying IMO, it's simply not neccesary for note-locking reasons on "only" 200bpm - but on od8 with the style of the map, it wasn't particularly challenging to close that gap from 95 to 98% acc