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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
As much as i hate to say it, this NEEDS to happen. Nothing against the eswc guys - i think they've done a fantastic job all these year...theres just too many fish in the pond.
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On April 06 2009 04:58 Kennigit wrote:
As much as i hate to say it, this NEEDS to happen. Nothing against the eswc guys - i think they've done a fantastic job all these year...theres just too many fish in the pond.
I agree with that completely. I would rather have 2 or 3 big leagues/companies which deliver many more games and are much more stable financially than 8 or 9 small leagues which are rather shaky and short lived.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
yeah i posted some link about i think it was a torbull article some months ago. really the economy screwing up is so good for esports. we will figure out what REALLY works and have a solid, quality product that can grow into something that won't die again.
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Too bad really, what effect does this have on the eswc qualifiers etc?
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For those arguing that this is a good thing, what is currently working outside of Korea? To my knowledge, every organization is having trouble at the moment.
Or do you mean that new organizations will now be able to form to do things the "right way"? What have we learned about what really works anyway?
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On April 06 2009 04:58 Kennigit wrote:
As much as i hate to say it, this NEEDS to happen. Nothing against the eswc guys - i think they've done a fantastic job all these year...theres just too many fish in the pond.
What the? If anything ESWC was considered to be one of the best events and the looked forward to event of the year. Great organization, great production, etc. You can't be serious. What other events are there? All thats left now is WCG and Kode5.
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ESWC produced high quality events every year, often not just rivaling but beating WCG in terms of their final events, and focused on competitive games with actual competition. This is possibly the prime example of a organization which we needed to survive for the way of eSports that I think we like best.
I can appreciate the argument that it is good to see some organizations die. But for me ESWC dying is very different from CPL, CGS or WSVG dying, and judging from what I've read in comments in the past hour, that goes for a lot of fans. One of the two yearly highlights in eSports went down today and that makes it a sad day, not just the market correcting itself.
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eswc > wcg anytime.
more professional, more coverage, more everything.
you cannot be serious.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Hm, well that sucks :c
It seems like if SC1 arrived at the perfect time in terms of the economy, SC2 couldn't have picked a worse time..
Although I guess you could look at it as there being a lot of room to build something new.
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they should keep working on sc2 and have a bunch of small betas then release it when the economy is in better shape in 1-2 years
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On April 06 2009 07:36 MarklarMarklar wrote:
they should keep working on sc2 and have a bunch of small betas then release it when the economy is in better shape in 1-2 years
You can't be serious.
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The problem is outside of Korea eSports are not yet sports: they do not sell tickets/merchandise/fill studios/etc.. The games themselves do, but not "eSports," so to speak. For years I would go to tournaments like the CPL and wondering why companies were sinking so much money into them to reach such a relatively small audience, and in a fashion where even those they did reach were not even the ideal consumer (someone who will buy the latest games/hardware frequently) but the e-atheletes themselves, who tended to focus on one game and really probably spend less on hardware and gaming titles than most. It seems it has taken a dire economy, however, for sponsor companies to realize that at this point in time what we call foreigner eSports is simply not the best place to spend an ever shrinking advertising budget.
I'm sad to see ESWC go, though. It was a very well-run event that generated a lot of insane matches, particularly in CS 1.6.
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United States13896 Posts
On April 06 2009 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hm, well that sucks :c
It seems like if SC1 arrived at the perfect time in terms of the economy, SC2 couldn't have picked a worse time..
Although I guess you could look at it as there being a lot of room to build something new.
Wasn't the argument for why BW succeeded in Korea that it was released right in the middle of an economic downturn, and it was cheap entertainment for people without jobs, with lots of free time?
If you go by this line of thinking then SC2 couldn't be arriving at a better time, assuming the economy doesn't do a dramatic 180 in the next six months.
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According to the sk gaming article:
This means we could see the ESWC brand being sold onto another company but given the current climate, who could possibly wish to take on such a huge burden?
Anybody know any companies that could incorporate ESWC?
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On April 06 2009 10:32 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hm, well that sucks :c
It seems like if SC1 arrived at the perfect time in terms of the economy, SC2 couldn't have picked a worse time..
Although I guess you could look at it as there being a lot of room to build something new. Wasn't the argument for why BW succeeded in Korea that it was released right in the middle of an economic downturn, and it was cheap entertainment for people without jobs, with lots of free time? Yeah, but I think that happened a lot in part because of how plentiful PC cafes were at the time. Here in the US there aren't many PC cafes with games on them, and it's generally considered to be fairly risky to open one considering how unpopular they usually are.
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On April 06 2009 11:46 Falcynn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 10:32 p4NDemik wrote:On April 06 2009 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hm, well that sucks :c
It seems like if SC1 arrived at the perfect time in terms of the economy, SC2 couldn't have picked a worse time..
Although I guess you could look at it as there being a lot of room to build something new. Wasn't the argument for why BW succeeded in Korea that it was released right in the middle of an economic downturn, and it was cheap entertainment for people without jobs, with lots of free time? Yeah, but I think that happened a lot in part because of how plentiful PC cafes were at the time. Here in the US there aren't many PC cafes with games on them, and it's generally considered to be fairly risky to open one considering how unpopular they usually are.
Yeah, not to mention every cafe usually has a set game that people play. For example the only one near me is filled with dota players, most of the computers dont even have starcraft installed or patched and the only person I ever faced was like D-----. I don't have much incentive to go to a lan cafe because I can get more games at home.
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On April 06 2009 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hm, well that sucks :c
It seems like if SC1 arrived at the perfect time in terms of the economy, SC2 couldn't have picked a worse time..
Although I guess you could look at it as there being a lot of room to build something new.
wasnt korea just pulling out of a recession as sc1 hit?
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51449 Posts
On April 06 2009 14:56 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hm, well that sucks :c
It seems like if SC1 arrived at the perfect time in terms of the economy, SC2 couldn't have picked a worse time..
Although I guess you could look at it as there being a lot of room to build something new. wasnt korea just pulling out of a recession as sc1 hit?
kinda
everyone was losing their jobs, but sc got lucky mainly due to the mass boom in the broadband/internet infrastructure and the popularity of pc bangs
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btw this Korea event its not gonna be affected because is sponsored by Korean sponsor, who has nothing to to with ESWC final
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On April 06 2009 07:18 s.a.y wrote:
eswc > wcg anytime.
more professional, more coverage, more everything.
100% agreed.
i'd take eswc over wcg ANY time of the day
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On April 06 2009 10:31 Ingenol wrote:
The problem is outside of Korea eSports are not yet sports: they do not sell tickets/merchandise/fill studios/etc.. The games themselves do, but not "eSports," so to speak. For years I would go to tournaments like the CPL and wondering why companies were sinking so much money into them to reach such a relatively small audience, and in a fashion where even those they did reach were not even the ideal consumer (someone who will buy the latest games/hardware frequently) but the e-atheletes themselves, who tended to focus on one game and really probably spend less on hardware and gaming titles than most. It seems it has taken a dire economy, however, for sponsor companies to realize that at this point in time what we call foreigner eSports is simply not the best place to spend an ever shrinking advertising budget.
I'm sad to see ESWC go, though. It was a very well-run event that generated a lot of insane matches, particularly in CS 1.6.
I really dont agree here, sponsors do get alot of new customers from sponsoring esports. I mean look at Razer, i bet alot of people have bought a mouse, mousepad and a keyboard due to them sponsoring alot of esports events. I think Razer is one of the most known hardware companies in esports. Also the hardcore gamer group is defenatly the most likely to by a good gaming mouse or a high quality mousepad since they need it the most to perform. The hardcore gamers are defenatly the group of gamers that spend the most money on games (i bet most of the TL'ers have atleast ten games at home even though we mostly play BW).
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On April 06 2009 06:50 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 04:58 Kennigit wrote:
As much as i hate to say it, this NEEDS to happen. Nothing against the eswc guys - i think they've done a fantastic job all these year...theres just too many fish in the pond. What the? If anything ESWC was considered to be one of the best events and the looked forward to event of the year. Great organization, great production, etc. You can't be serious. What other events are there? All thats left now is WCG and Kode5.
well in principle it is good that 'lesser' events are dying off, the problem is they arent dying off by the right critera. wcg is just sticking around cuz its the biggest and most established and so can weather the economic problems, instead of having the lowest quality events eliminated.
and if it gets to the point where wcg really is the only thing left there will be no pressure on them to improve cuz the gaming community would have to cling to them no matter how bad they are. shitty.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 06 2009 14:56 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hm, well that sucks :c
It seems like if SC1 arrived at the perfect time in terms of the economy, SC2 couldn't have picked a worse time..
Although I guess you could look at it as there being a lot of room to build something new. wasnt korea just pulling out of a recession as sc1 hit?
Yeah, I realized that which was why I added the second part. At first I wasn't thinking so much about the current overall economic situation, but rather that so many teams/events have shut down lately.. Which of course is connected 
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very sad news, eswc was the best esports event with only starcraft lacking 
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i don't know about starcraft but ESWC did a great job of organising quake tournaments.. oh well
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Some Korean Brand please buy ESWC and show us how it is done ?
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Games in general sell well during recessions. Not just SC, all decent games. SC2 is safe I think.
The problem is sponsor companies are a lot tighter on cash + expectations of international growth in competitive e-gaming were never quite met. I think part of the reason is that competiton with other sorts of entertainment (such as sports, movies, concerts, etc.) is a lot more acute in other parts of the world. I would love to see SC tournaments on TV in the US or Europe, but I just don't see it happening aytime soon.
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On April 06 2009 19:43 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 06:50 Dknight wrote:On April 06 2009 04:58 Kennigit wrote:
As much as i hate to say it, this NEEDS to happen. Nothing against the eswc guys - i think they've done a fantastic job all these year...theres just too many fish in the pond. What the? If anything ESWC was considered to be one of the best events and the looked forward to event of the year. Great organization, great production, etc. You can't be serious. What other events are there? All thats left now is WCG and Kode5. well in principle it is good that 'lesser' events are dying off, the problem is they arent dying off by the right critera. wcg is just sticking around cuz its the biggest and most established and so can weather the economic problems, instead of having the lowest quality events eliminated. and if it gets to the point where wcg really is the only thing left there will be no pressure on them to improve cuz the gaming community would have to cling to them no matter how bad they are. shitty.
Darwin
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On April 07 2009 00:26 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 19:43 IdrA wrote:On April 06 2009 06:50 Dknight wrote:On April 06 2009 04:58 Kennigit wrote:
As much as i hate to say it, this NEEDS to happen. Nothing against the eswc guys - i think they've done a fantastic job all these year...theres just too many fish in the pond. What the? If anything ESWC was considered to be one of the best events and the looked forward to event of the year. Great organization, great production, etc. You can't be serious. What other events are there? All thats left now is WCG and Kode5. well in principle it is good that 'lesser' events are dying off, the problem is they arent dying off by the right critera. wcg is just sticking around cuz its the biggest and most established and so can weather the economic problems, instead of having the lowest quality events eliminated. and if it gets to the point where wcg really is the only thing left there will be no pressure on them to improve cuz the gaming community would have to cling to them no matter how bad they are. shitty. Darwin
yeah and its sad that US goverment and many other ignore this
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I believe both Microsoft's and Samsung's Contracts with WCG cover the 2009 event but not the 2010 one so if things don't go well this year, it's likely it will be the last year for it as well. As for ESWC, everyone knew they've been having major sponsorship issues for a number of years. Still, very sad to see them go, I really hope that something can happen for next year, either another company buying the company or Matthieu starting another project
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On April 07 2009 00:26 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 19:43 IdrA wrote:On April 06 2009 06:50 Dknight wrote:On April 06 2009 04:58 Kennigit wrote:
As much as i hate to say it, this NEEDS to happen. Nothing against the eswc guys - i think they've done a fantastic job all these year...theres just too many fish in the pond. What the? If anything ESWC was considered to be one of the best events and the looked forward to event of the year. Great organization, great production, etc. You can't be serious. What other events are there? All thats left now is WCG and Kode5. well in principle it is good that 'lesser' events are dying off, the problem is they arent dying off by the right critera. wcg is just sticking around cuz its the biggest and most established and so can weather the economic problems, instead of having the lowest quality events eliminated. and if it gets to the point where wcg really is the only thing left there will be no pressure on them to improve cuz the gaming community would have to cling to them no matter how bad they are. shitty. Darwin
the whole point of my post was that thats not whats happening because quality hasnt been the determining factor in who fails.
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Well gaming isn't very popular and money is from sponsorships not advertising. which is a huge setback since very few people watch pro gaming (compared to sports)
because of this the community can only support so many things... others must die out
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Trackmania depended a lot from eswc, and they were all great except in lans where sometimes you'd go throught some VERY newb trackmania admins which kinda pissed me off.
(You had to do lans in order to gets points to qualify in the finals, first french eswc finals then world finals). Sadly there won't be any trackmania world final anymore (french qualification is still open though).
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It's never a good thing when a league shuts down, less leagues over all means less money out there for players. Less tournaments held and less competition for leagues so they don't have to pony up to attract the players. Meaning, why have a bigger payout for a tournament if you don't have to worry about others.
And let's not even discuss that if more leagues start failing, how no competition ends up being a monopoly and what that would mean... ><
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the only thing im wondering is are we going to get any more tasteless and artosis vods? those were badass
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On April 07 2009 10:39 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2009 00:26 Zoler wrote:On April 06 2009 19:43 IdrA wrote:On April 06 2009 06:50 Dknight wrote:On April 06 2009 04:58 Kennigit wrote:
As much as i hate to say it, this NEEDS to happen. Nothing against the eswc guys - i think they've done a fantastic job all these year...theres just too many fish in the pond. What the? If anything ESWC was considered to be one of the best events and the looked forward to event of the year. Great organization, great production, etc. You can't be serious. What other events are there? All thats left now is WCG and Kode5. well in principle it is good that 'lesser' events are dying off, the problem is they arent dying off by the right critera. wcg is just sticking around cuz its the biggest and most established and so can weather the economic problems, instead of having the lowest quality events eliminated. and if it gets to the point where wcg really is the only thing left there will be no pressure on them to improve cuz the gaming community would have to cling to them no matter how bad they are. shitty. Darwin the whole point of my post was that thats not whats happening because quality hasnt been the determining factor in who fails.
I know that. I wrote "Darwin" because I meant that that is how it should be!
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Sweden33719 Posts
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On April 06 2009 10:32 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hm, well that sucks :c
It seems like if SC1 arrived at the perfect time in terms of the economy, SC2 couldn't have picked a worse time..
Although I guess you could look at it as there being a lot of room to build something new. Wasn't the argument for why BW succeeded in Korea that it was released right in the middle of an economic downturn, and it was cheap entertainment for people without jobs, with lots of free time? If you go by this line of thinking then SC2 couldn't be arriving at a better time, assuming the economy doesn't do a dramatic 180 in the next six months.
Which it won't, either way.
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EPT
