Those who are new to Touhou, its a shmup. Aka a game where you control a vehicle (in this case, a girl (in this case, a loli)) that always shoots upwards and enemies fly in and try to kill you with their 2d bullet patterns that can get extremely confusing. Hopefully you will find it entertaining, or at least find the music entertaining since that is something apart from the game itself that many can enjoy.
Those who aren't new, 1. Old bomb system has been put back into commission, 2. Same life system as SA in effect except now only three life fragments make a life, 3. UFO SYSTEM!!!: collect three of one type or one of each of the three colors to summon a huge ufo. -if not killed after 10 seconds, the ufo flies off the screen -if a boss is present, ufo flies off screen regardless of time left -before destroying the ufo, feed it point and power which it will automatically suck up when you kill enemies who drop them -reds drop life fragments, blues drop points and go up to 8x multiplier, greens drop bombs -destroying the ufo will clear bullets according to how full it is (filled clears screen) 4. Sanae playable O.O 5. I found it much more fun than Subterranean Animism, and so have many others
Side note: My blind lunatic run got me to first stage endboss where i anticlimactically died three times in a row to her third spell card.
Edit: FULL version released as of yesterday: [url blocked]
UFO is so funny, after seeing brofist i didn't expect stage 4 to be just as visually ridiculous in terms of danmaku shapes rofl
Since its another touhou in a sense, I give you as well touhou 12.3: 東方非想天則 (Touhou Hisoutensoku), the next Tasofro fighting touhou game. I'm not entirely sure why they changed the scheme from x.5 to x.3, though. [url blocked] Also: the reason why there are so few characters is because hisoutensoku is both an add-on to SWR and a stand-alone game. So, if you have SWR, you can play all the characters from SWR and all those ones now playable in hisoutensoku (CIRNO!!!). If not, you only get like 8 characters or something.
@x89titan: Tohou games are relatively accessible, where patterns are not THAT bad and there is still some flexibility to recover. Cave makes some of the best games in the genre. You linked a video of Mushihimesama Futari, but they have more "accessible" games like ESPGaluda.
If anyone likes the games, please, support ZUN. It is not that hard to buy legit copies. Palet Web carries them at relatively decent prices.
On March 09 2009 12:49 VManOfMana wrote: @x89titan: Tohou games are relatively accessible, where patterns are not THAT bad and there is still some flexibility to recover. Cave makes some of the best games in the genre. You linked a video of Mushihimesama Futari, but they have more "accessible" games like ESPGaluda.
If anyone likes the games, please, support ZUN. It is not that hard to buy legit copies. Palet Web carries them at relatively decent prices.
On March 09 2009 22:08 Pellucidity wrote: Like, how do I shoot Q_Q. It says 0 and 1 but they're not working ;_; also I'd like to change them to ctrl and shift.
You can't change controls unless using a joypad (or wired xbox 360 controller like i do). The 0 and 1, etc. apply to joypad buttons. Shoot using z and bomb using x, Slow your movement (helps to dodge some patterns) and change shot with shift.
Its pretty obvious he didnt know how to do much of stage 3, which is why he went mostly bomb ufos to prepare for it. But he still completed (with heavy bomb abuse on the latter half of st 3, that is)
I blew the last day on this when I realized that Reitaisai was over the weekend, bah at this new system. When I first saw the screens I thought we were going back to the good old days
ZUN needs to balance death though, currently 0 reason to go get the life fragment UFOs, bombs got strictly better without reset of bomb/link to power.
On March 10 2009 12:12 x89titan wrote: why does mine crash everytime?
Go to control panel, date time regional & language options, regional and language options, advanced tab, select Japanese as language for non-Unicode programs. That or update your directx.
I'm currently working on normal 1cc just to unlock the extra stage (i'm a hard mode player, usually). I really like it so far, but I think it's easier than SA. Which isnt necessarily a bad point btw, I feel like SA is one of the hardest.
I'll just wait for a RS and then tell you guys what I think
Being stupid ambitious, I'm going to jump right into lunatic hahaha...although I'll probably fail and have to go back to hard or normal after my sight reading run.
Wooow. Ok, let's see what the extra stage has to offer. :D
Concerning stage 4, yeah there are a lot more bullets than in SA's stage 4, but they are way more easily dodgeable. And the bosses are not hard at all once you know what they are doing. Plus I feel like the whole UFO system makes it easier to collect lifes/bombs when you need them.
On August 16 2009 04:19 tyr wrote: Wooot Just 1cc'd normal with SanaeB
Wooow. Ok, let's see what the extra stage has to offer. :D
Concerning stage 4, yeah there are a lot more bullets than in SA's stage 4, but they are way more easily dodgeable. And the bosses are not hard at all once you know what they are doing. Plus I feel like the whole UFO system makes it easier to collect lifes/bombs when you need them.
Either i'm really good (which is .. not really the case yet), either the extra stage is easy. The first part at least. My first try was failed on the midboss, my second try was ended by the boss after I passed 5 of her spellcards, capturing 2 or 3 of them. I'm not kidding. The patterns are really nice though and I think I failed on that spellcard because I was too amazed by that pattern. It was so beautiful. I'll watch highlander finals now but i'll play later again.
Overall, I really like this Touhou so far, the bullet patterns are really nice in my opinion and the music is also very good (extra stage boss music is extremely good omg !)
Wow, that's unexpected...on my first try on an extra stage I've never been able to capture two or three of the end boss spell cards. I'm usually dead by those ones hahaha.
Zomg can't pass through that same spellcard. Fourth time I die on that one. Maybe I was wrong after all, the extra stage maybe isnt that easy. :D I wanna see the next ones !
On August 16 2009 04:19 tyr wrote: Wooot Just 1cc'd normal with SanaeB
Wooow. Ok, let's see what the extra stage has to offer. :D
Concerning stage 4, yeah there are a lot more bullets than in SA's stage 4, but they are way more easily dodgeable. And the bosses are not hard at all once you know what they are doing. Plus I feel like the whole UFO system makes it easier to collect lifes/bombs when you need them.
I found SA to be hard as all hell. SA was easily up there or harder than Touhou 6 for me on Lunatic... and it had nothing to do with the fact that 6 doesn't show the hitbox... it was just hard.
Ok just downloaded utorrent and am currently torrenting touhou 12! Not that anyone cares, but I'll give my thoughts on the cards and stuff after I actually play it
On August 16 2009 04:19 tyr wrote: Wooot Just 1cc'd normal with SanaeB
Wooow. Ok, let's see what the extra stage has to offer. :D
Concerning stage 4, yeah there are a lot more bullets than in SA's stage 4, but they are way more easily dodgeable. And the bosses are not hard at all once you know what they are doing. Plus I feel like the whole UFO system makes it easier to collect lifes/bombs when you need them.
I found SA to be hard as all hell. SA was easily up there or harder than Touhou 6 for me on Lunatic... and it had nothing to do with the fact that 6 doesn't show the hitbox... it was just hard.
SA took me forever to beat on lunatic.
One of the things that bothered me about SA was that I could never QUITE figure out where the hitbox began and ended on the "sun" type projectiles. Especially if they were different sizes. It took me freaking forever to even remotely get close to beating her.
On August 16 2009 04:19 tyr wrote: Wooot Just 1cc'd normal with SanaeB
Wooow. Ok, let's see what the extra stage has to offer. :D
Concerning stage 4, yeah there are a lot more bullets than in SA's stage 4, but they are way more easily dodgeable. And the bosses are not hard at all once you know what they are doing. Plus I feel like the whole UFO system makes it easier to collect lifes/bombs when you need them.
I found SA to be hard as all hell. SA was easily up there or harder than Touhou 6 for me on Lunatic... and it had nothing to do with the fact that 6 doesn't show the hitbox... it was just hard.
SA took me forever to beat on lunatic.
One of the things that bothered me about SA was that I could never QUITE figure out where the hitbox began and ended on the "sun" type projectiles. Especially if they were different sizes. It took me freaking forever to even remotely get close to beating her.
The real problem was that the colors on those projectiles merged into each other.
On every touhou before that it was pretty easy to tell where the hitbox was... the DARK part of the giant circle was going to kill you so you skimmed it and you were fine of course. It was even god damn worse because the last boss had a transition where the bastard sun projectiles SHRUNK and their hitbox did NOT shrink at the same rate as the projectiles did as they fell down.
God I hated SA.
I still haven't found the exact spot, I give them a far wider birth than any other projectile in any touhou game for sure.
I play Touhou EoSD liberally though, "U.N Owen was her" is reason enough to fight flandre twice a day. Total Yukari fan here though so I'm pretty addicted to IN as well.
Oh haha yeah Those nukes were so annoying. But it always made me laugh though. Nukes ? wtf
SA is one of my favourite Touhou overall btw. My favourite favourite is still IN, and I don't know if there will ever be another touhou like that. Everything in that game is great.
On August 16 2009 08:53 ZoW wrote: fuck curvy lasers own me
fuck lunatic owns me.
I don't know if it's because I'm slightly rusty or if it's because it's just freaking hard.
I still don't quite understand how to get the UFO's to spawn life pieces but some of the stage 3 spell cards are insane on lunatic. Stage 4 was a huge mess in and of itself. But yea I can't do lunatic 1 CC or even 2 CC without understanding how the extra life mechanics work.
EDIT: Ok I figured it out. 3 Green UFO's drop bomb pieces when their multiplier is full (IE they gather enough so the white circle is total filled out)
3 Red UFO's drop the life pieces
I'm not too sure about 3 Blue and the Prismatic one... maybe higher score multplier?
Also Sanae A is total love, I can already tell that's the character I'll be using the most.
EDIT 2: OK I figured out what the Blue and Primatic one do and touhou wiki confirmed it.
The max score multiplier for Blue UFO's is x8... which is the highest of all of them. Red is x1 Green x2 and Prismatic x4. So when I you get good enough to go for score you'll focus on getting blue ones.
Also it's hard to miss the fact that Power items still spawn even after you have full power (also full power is freaking hard to get in UFO...) and that's because the prismatic UFO changes the objects it sucks in... IE any power items it sucks in becomes point items and vice versa. Those periods where you get a million power items in stage 4 now makes sense.
This one has by far the most potential for highly strategic timing of UFO pieces... I am heavily interested already. That and it isn't exactly easy without all that >.>
I don't know, Trial had a lunatic score run on nico where the guy just found the sickest dead spots and grazed everything, and he was going pure red. If he had gone all blue he would've had an even more ridiculous score.
As for character, I only use Reimu A really, which is now so bad in comparison to Marisa's lasers, largely because Reimu is my all time favorite touhou character :p Though SanaeB is freaking amazing, I had issues with with Reimu A for the longest time, but with Sanae B I was just breezing through.
Ok wow, the UFO system was pretty difficult for me to grasp at the beginning...didn't really understand it until like stage 2 haha. Hmm, my first death was on the stage 3 boss (the one with the fists, right?) because I stupidly didn't think the fists were part of the attack so I literally stood under the first one and got smashed. Wow pretty stupid.
Stage 5 boss was insanely easy, even on Lunatic difficulty. I died more on stage 4 boss to be honest. I used my first continue at stage 4 boss because I kept on dying <_<.
I 1cc'd it on normal after dying in Lunatic. Extra stage is about what I'd expect from an extra stage, except I can't get past the second "real" spell card of the end boss. (so none of that easy UFO spinning shit).
I dunno, I'll give it more time and see what else I think. Graphics and gameplay are top notch, although there aren't many memorable music themes from what I think.
On August 16 2009 11:47 Empyrean wrote: Ok wow, the UFO system was pretty difficult for me to grasp at the beginning...didn't really understand it until like stage 2 haha. Hmm, my first death was on the stage 3 boss (the one with the fists, right?) because I stupidly didn't think the fists were part of the attack so I literally stood under the first one and got smashed. Wow pretty stupid.
Stage 5 boss was insanely easy, even on Lunatic difficulty. I died more on stage 4 boss to be honest. I used my first continue at stage 4 boss because I kept on dying <_<.
I 1cc'd it on normal after dying in Lunatic. Extra stage is about what I'd expect from an extra stage, except I can't get past the second "real" spell card of the end boss. (so none of that easy UFO spinning shit).
I dunno, I'll give it more time and see what else I think. Graphics and gameplay are top notch, although there aren't many memorable music themes from what I think.
I thought the stage 5 boss on Lunatic was hard as hell, I had a much easier time with dealing with the stage 4 boss.
That also comes from my weakness with lasers. In all Touhou games I was never really great at dodging lasers. Sure like everything up to hard difficulty I simply got too good to get killed by it but some of the intricate level 5 boss cards kinda messed me up.
Stage 6 boss was so well done though. She had some amazing intricate spell cards... but Curvy Lasers + Marisa stars can go to hell. Marisa in IN was the most aggrivating boss ever because her star bullets didn't follow normal physics and now you're going to scroll a bunch of lasers left to right while shooting some stars at me? Thanks.
Also I've noticed that this Touhou requires quite a bit more movement that you can't really do while focused than most before it. The rotating laser spell card in stage 5 and a few of the stage 6 ones. They caught me totally off guard and I had to haul ass all of a sudden or just die.
This game literally THROWS lives at you if you know how to do it though. Getting 1 CC clears shouldn't be much of an issue.
Lol yea but then again that's just hardmoding that card... you don't have to do it that way
Nue is one of the best extra stages bosses ever... in fact UFO's extra stage is really really fun and Nue gives off such Flandre vibes that I can't not love it. I have a feeling I will be playing this one a whole hell of a lot... and ZUN obviously still has creativity because of the patterns he thought of. Lasers morphing into bullets and back again etc etc... I loved it. Nue is also the first boss since freaking EoSD to SHIELD bombs so they don't hurt her on her own spell cards. I found that neat.
Her survival spell card is going to be hellishly hard to capture though. Hours will go into that one.
Lol what Every extra stage final boss, and final level 6 boss spellcard is immune to bomb damage. Or did I miss something there ? But yeah, Nue's spellcard where lasers are morphing into bullets and back again is the spellcard where I die. Haha. I'll have to focus more to get past through.
Shift switches you to "focus" mode. You move slower and it displays the hitbox of your character (the hitbox is always the same btw, the only thing focus does about that, is that it displays it). This mode is very good for precision moves, when there are a lot of bullets on the screen. Plus, depending on the character you're playing, it will change your fire pattern, usually focusing it more. That's why it has this name.
Z is the fire button. Basically, you'll have it pressed 98% of the time (the other 2% are for very specific moments where you if you shoot, it's not good.)
X is the bomb button. The bomb is not the same for every character. It even changes between one character's different fire modes. The common thing between all the bombs is that it will make your character invincible for a short period of time (around 5 seconds). It usually cleans the screen of a lot/all bullets also. If you aim well, you also can deal a lot of damage to the boss you're fighting. Use it if you're about to die, or if you're too confused by the bullets flying everywhere. It will buy you enough time to refocus. Note that you can still bomb for like 0.1sec when you're hit by an ennemy bullet.
This is really basic stuff, you'll learn how to perfectly use bombs according to your game style by playing more.
On August 16 2009 13:58 tyr wrote: Lol what Every extra stage final boss, and final level 6 boss spellcard is immune to bomb damage. Or did I miss something there ? But yeah, Nue's spellcard where lasers are morphing into bullets and back again is the spellcard where I die. Haha. I'll have to focus more to get past through.
I'm pretty certain I just bombed my way through Kaguya's spellcards so she definitely doesn't shield them. They might take less damage sure but not immune.
I'm talking about full immunity here. Flandre and Remilia totally vanish when you cast a bomb and you can't even fire regular bullets at them during this period. As far as I know every other boss until Nue can at least take damage from regular shots.
But yes as for keyboard playing... I fully and totally recommend a game pad if you start to like the game and play it extensively. Takes a little bit of getting used to because it's harder to control than the keyboard but it also you to make much quicker and more intricate direction changes than the keyboard allows.
It's hard to move in all four diagonals on a keyboard while tapping shift... not so much with a gamepad.
I'm talking about the final spellcard of the level 6 boss, not all the spellcards. I'm pretty sure all the final bosses vanish on the final spellcard if you use bomb. And every final extra boss vanish during each spellcard if you bomb.
On August 17 2009 00:13 Jayme wrote: Takes a little bit of getting used to because it's harder to control than the keyboard but it also you to make much quicker and more intricate direction changes than the keyboard allows.
It's hard to move in all four diagonals on a keyboard while tapping shift... not so much with a gamepad.
This is totally false. There are no physical limitations to speak of when it comes to control on a keyboard, if you can't do it you simply aren't used to it.
Edit: On a side note, I can sometimes make it through level 2 on Lunatic. D;
On August 17 2009 00:13 Jayme wrote: Takes a little bit of getting used to because it's harder to control than the keyboard but it also you to make much quicker and more intricate direction changes than the keyboard allows.
It's hard to move in all four diagonals on a keyboard while tapping shift... not so much with a gamepad.
This is totally false. There are no physical limitations to speak of when it comes to control on a keyboard, if you can't do it you simply aren't used to it.
Edit: On a side note, I can sometimes make it through level 2 on Lunatic. D;
Some keyboards don't let you input more than two or three keys at once.
12.3 is up on rapidshare, though I seem to keep getting critical errors . Whenever I finish Sanae's story mode or enter practice with Suwako, it errors out
On August 17 2009 03:55 Empyrean wrote: Some keyboards don't let you input more than two or three keys at once.
Except that's not what he was talking about, and the very few keyboards will have any problems with the arrows keys while holding Z and Shift.
I can use Z, Shift, and all the arrow keys except for the down arrow key simultaneously. One arrow makes a big difference ;;
The keyboard I'm using is REALLY FUCKING OLD, it hasn't been in production for a long time, and I can't find any info on it on google. I believe the model is the Keytronics LR60161 (that's what it says on the back, but I'm just guessing about the brand).
Here's a handy program to see what keys your keyboard can handle (I swear it's not a keylogger): http://www.mediafire.com/?yhtzzjkjred It's a pain playing FPS games now as well, if I'm holding w+d or w+a most keys around them won't work.
I'm going to buy a new standard keyboard soon. Any suggestions (other than the flashy Razer keyboards/Logitech G15)? I would get a DT35, but the only site that sells it is selling it for $40 (and free shipping).
On August 17 2009 13:11 Tyrio wrote: 12.3 is up on rapidshare, though I seem to keep getting critical errors . Whenever I finish Sanae's story mode or enter practice with Suwako, it errors out
Haven't heard much about errors with 12.3, but that error seems like an irregularity. It is the pre-installed version right? afaik images are not out yet.
Is this thread expanding into a Touhou thread (We had another one iirc) or is it being kept in scope of 12?
On August 17 2009 23:06 tube wrote: bump for 12.3 hopefully I can figure out netplay on this and not fail miserably like I did on the other 3 netplay-activated games
edit: I didn't even realize people posted in this recently, guess it was an unnecessary bump
From what I've heard netplay is having issues. There is a patch out, so try this.
On August 17 2009 13:11 Tyrio wrote: 12.3 is up on rapidshare, though I seem to keep getting critical errors . Whenever I finish Sanae's story mode or enter practice with Suwako, it errors out
Haven't heard much about errors with 12.3, but that error seems like an irregularity. It is the pre-installed version right? afaik images are not out yet.
As for UFO, there's some serious issues with it on Lunatic. Nothing was changed from the demo, so Kogasa's first boss card is still a bit bullshitty, and stage 3's streaming portion is still ass. And while Ichirin's cards became famous for having terrible fucking colors (red animated bullets on top of a red background with red brofists), stage 5 makes it even worse. Some of the artificial difficulty done by ZUN was also a bit unnecessary (I'm looking at you, Syou's curving lasers), and some patterns are just plain ridiculous (e.g. Byakuren's 2nd noncard).
At the very least, I guess normal and hard are fun for a bit. Extra is kind of uninspired, but Nue's time out card is really fun
As for UFO, there's some serious issues with it on Lunatic. Nothing was changed from the demo, so Kogasa's first boss card is still a bit bullshitty, and stage 3's streaming portion is still ass. And while Ichirin's cards became famous for having terrible fucking colors (red animated bullets on top of a red background with red brofists), stage 5 makes it even worse. Some of the artificial difficulty done by ZUN was also a bit unnecessary (I'm looking at you, Syou's curving lasers), and some patterns are just plain ridiculous (e.g. Byakuren's 2nd noncard).
At the very least, I guess normal and hard are fun for a bit. Extra is kind of uninspired, but Nue's time out card is really fun
Haha wow, that's you?
Anyway, I do'nt know why people have so much trouble with the curved lasers... I actually think they're easier to dodge than bubbles and bullet spam since it's pretty well telegraphed where the lasers are going to end up and they give you a long wind up time before they release. Personally I hate level 3 and 4 bosses because I hate dodging huge shit. (I hated dodging Marissa's Master Spark card in touhou 8). I do best against lasers and stationaries like Nue's timeout or level 5's last spellcard. I do worst against bubbles, huge shit and bullet spam that involves lots of hitbox prayer.
I think Nue's first few non-spellcard patterns are really nicely done. I like the shape lol. I haven't gotten to the end, though, since I die ...I wish she had better music. Too much like Flandre's music. Hell, she even looks like Flandre :/
On August 18 2009 14:26 Empyrean wrote: Haha wow, that's you?
Anyway, I do'nt know why people have so much trouble with the curved lasers... I actually think they're easier to dodge than bubbles and bullet spam since it's pretty well telegraphed where the lasers are going to end up and they give you a long wind up time before they release. Personally I hate level 3 and 4 bosses because I hate dodging huge shit. (I hated dodging Marissa's Master Spark card in touhou 8). I do best against lasers and stationaries like Nue's timeout or level 5's last spellcard. I do worst against bubbles, huge shit and bullet spam that involves lots of hitbox prayer.
I think Nue's first few non-spellcard patterns are really nicely done. I like the shape lol. I haven't gotten to the end, though, since I die ...I wish she had better music. Too much like Flandre's music. Hell, she even looks like Flandre :/
Yeah, that's me. When I look back, I'm really not sure why I chose to register this name on TL rather than "bjw" or a derivative of it, something I happen to use in every other community >_>
Essentially, there's no actual problem with a laser that curves. Instead, it's how ZUN utilizes them. Let's take Syou, the stage 5 boss, for example. What her noncards insist on doing is throwing out lasers, having them loop around a handful of times, and then suddenly they launch. What the initial lasers tell you is where you should move, but what actually also happens is that another set of curving lasers are launched and sent to the spot that the player would most likely seek refuge in. Dodging these patterns isn't so much a reading/parsing skill as it is just micromemorization, something that isn't particularly fun. I happen to enjoy patterns with big bullets, but like you, I'm not fond of the battles with Ichirin and Murasa (but for different reasons ).
I actually find the similarity between Nue and Flan to be a bit funny. I'll agree with the "infinity sign" noncards looking nifty
Spellcards are the "named" attacks of bosses. If you watch carefully, when you engage a boss, her first attack (a non-card) isnt named. Then, after a little while, when you shoot at her enough, she'll change her attack, and you'll see her briefly on the screen, with the name of that attack. This is a spellcard. Some of them have become legendary as of now, and if I say "Red Magic", every pro of Touhou knows that I'm talking about Remilia's very last spellcard.
* Lives/Bombs: these are the white stars on the left, beneath your score. First row is lives, second row is bombs (spell cards). EDIT: empty pink stars increase your lives by 1/4. Empty green stars increase your bombs by 1/3. Filled green stars increase your bombs by 1.
* Boss marker: below the play area, there's a red line indicating where the boss is horizontally on the screen (so you don't have to look up to see where it is).
* 3-colour UFO: I'm not sure what this does. Seems like it gives you more attack power?
* I think that if you die with fewer than 2 bombs, you get 1 extra bomb?
* When the UFO is on-screen, you can tell how "full" it is by either looking at the ring around it (that fills up), or by looking at the % on the lower-right in the sidebar.
Thank you for educating us on basic gameplay mechanics. ;P
~Two options when you pick your character are the two different versions of the character, which for gameplay purposes are basically two completely different characters.
On August 21 2009 13:13 armed_ wrote: Thank you for educating us on basic gameplay mechanics. ;P
~Two options when you pick your character are the two different versions of the character, which for gameplay purposes are basically two completely different characters.
You're welcome, elitist asshole. ;P Not all of us are born with innate knowledge of how Touhou games / UFO work.
By the way, as I noticed, the first option makes your regular shot concentrated, while the second option makes it spread out.
After failing repeatedly to 1cc Normal mode, I decided to drop down to Easy. It was a lot easier. IMO, the hardest parts of Easy mode were about as difficult as the 4th boss's last spellcard on Normal.
Now that I see what I'll have to deal with in stage 6 (curvy lasers...), I don't think I'm going to 1cc Normal mode any time soon. <_<
PS: I like the 6th boss's ESP Ra.De.- / ESP Galuda-inspired wings.
Bill, the thing about shots is kind of random, they are just different kinds of shots. I believe the wiki should have translations on the "types" they are classified under. Just happens that the first option this time were the focus shots, weren't like that with 11 and 10 really.
Phew, just 1cc'd Normal mode. What helped a lot was a) not dying needlessly in the early stages, and b) using bombs more liberally on patterns that usually kill me.
On the Extra stage, I always get owned and gg'd by the lasers where you have to predict where they're going to stop. >.O
On August 22 2009 07:24 Bill307 wrote: Oh I see, thanks.
Phew, just 1cc'd Normal mode. What helped a lot was a) not dying needlessly in the early stages, and b) using bombs more liberally on patterns that usually kill me.
On the Extra stage, I always get owned and gg'd by the lasers where you have to predict where they're going to stop. >.O
Thats always one of the hardest things to learn.
To freaking bomb.
When I first started I wanted to just capture every spell card and push the limits of what I was capable of... which is NOTHING when you are just starting out.
I just 1 CC'd Lunatic... it was a pain in the ass... and I'm a very long way away from being able to actually score attack this one but yea.. bomb bomb bomb.
Also curvy lasers can eat me. I always hated lasers to begin with and this just makes it worse.
On August 17 2009 00:13 Jayme wrote: Takes a little bit of getting used to because it's harder to control than the keyboard but it also you to make much quicker and more intricate direction changes than the keyboard allows.
It's hard to move in all four diagonals on a keyboard while tapping shift... not so much with a gamepad.
This is totally false. There are no physical limitations to speak of when it comes to control on a keyboard, if you can't do it you simply aren't used to it.
Edit: On a side note, I can sometimes make it through level 2 on Lunatic. D;
If you don't believe that your movements are more fluid direction changing wise on a game pad than a keyboard... err well you're plain wrong.
I play stepmania so I'm not exactly lacking on the keyboard control or anything like that but wow it's so much easier to just change rapid diagonal directions with a game pad.
Maybe it is a point of getting used to it... and I never said anything about physical limitations... I just find a keyboard HARDER to control on lunatic.
Today I mass-practiced stage 6 on Normal so that I can clear Normal more easily. I almost managed to capture the boss's curvy lasers spellcard and her final one, if not for two unnecessary bombs >.O . I think I'll try to no-bomb them in practice mode, from now on.
Jayme: congrats! I agree with wanting to try to get through everything without bombing: I feel the same way.
I used to play shmups with a keyboard, but I find I do a lot better with a gamepad thumbstick. It just feels more... natural to transition between different directions on a thumbstick. I think it took longer to learn, though, e.g. "tapping" the thumbstick to nudge over definitely requires more practice than tapping a key.
Assuming we're talking about Normal, I actually find stage 6, sans sub-boss and boss, to be quite easy. o.O Then the game says GET SERIOUS and you have the sub-boss and boss.
Then the last boss has a number of easy patterns (on Normal). Most notably, the one with the blue lasers and blue bullets from her wings: you can just move back and forth between two spots and all but one time you'll end up in a dead zone from the bullets. I'm sure someone has found a movement pattern where you're always in a dead zone, but I prefer discovering these things on my own.
Patterns on Normal that almost always kill me / require a bomb: - st.3 boss's last spellcard (the two heads with eye-lasers) - st.4 boss's last spellcard (the one you have to wait out) - st.5 boss's 2nd-last spellcard (the two big green lasers, which always seem to corner me in an inescapable place T_T) - plus a bunch of the st.6 boss's attack patterns
I have pretty much the same issues as you, Bill, though the eye-lasers are getting better. At this point I am kind of just doubting my reflexes on that ><
Well, with enough practice I'm sure we can learn to predict where the lasers are going to go based on their start-up directions. In contrast, with normal bullets, we've already built up this skill from playing other shmups.
It's interesting how the way he (ZUN) uses lasers in this game initially forces you to dodge them on-reaction because it's very unlikely that you'll be able to predict where they're going to go without a lot of practice. I think that's why the laser patterns are so much less dense during the 5th boss: because he the knows the players will need to make a focused, conscious effort to dodge those, as opposed to relying on their core shmup skills.
Actually, that's probably the reason why I find the 5th boss laser patterns to be relatively easy compared to the non-laser ones. The patterns will probably feel a lot more balanced for someone with a lot more core bullet dodging experience, where the conventional bullet patterns are "just as easy" as the laser ones.
On a different note, I've heard people praise the Touhou games' music repeatedly, and now I understand why: I'm really enjoying the music for this game. Right now I'm running the game solely to use the Music Room while doing other stuff.
I've noticed there are different BGMs for the different bosses. Were Touhou games always like this? I remember watching videos of Imperishable Night spellcards, and iirc they all had the same BGM in them. o.O
IN is a case where people mostly go after specific spellcards, typically from the same character, and it didn't include older music for the likes of Alice/Sakuya/all the past crew, so it feels like the music is repetitive.
If you are interested in touhou bgm, I know someone had just ripped 12 and 12.3 bgm and has everything out in flac+cue on torrent. Should you have interest in rearrangements, I highly recommend TAmusic, a doujin group focusing specifically on bringing classical rearrangements of anime/game/touhou songs.
K, I gotta figure out how to clear the Nazrin Prism spellcard in Hard mode. Seems like it involves moving into the ring of prisms before the circle of bullets becomes too dense.
I tried Lunatic as well and actually did better on that pattern since the prisms didn't extend out as far. =P
On August 24 2009 13:50 Antifate wrote: Third level boss is kicking my ass. I can't dodge those big fists that appear at the side at then sweep across the screen. Any tips?
Nevermind, you can just stay at the bottom of the screen, LOL.
My friend is a Touhou fanatic who has beaten Touhou Project 6 on Lunatic. I struggle to beat the damn games on normal, regardless they are pretty damn fun though.
Level 4 is hard. I can't not lose enough lives on the massive bullet spam to actually have a chance on the boss. Is there some sort of pattern or w.e. to these things or do you just have to be good?
On August 24 2009 23:35 Antifate wrote: Level 4 is hard. I can't not lose enough lives on the massive bullet spam to actually have a chance on the boss. Is there some sort of pattern or w.e. to these things or do you just have to be good?
In those situations, I ignore the UFO stuff and everything else that's happening except for the bullets: I focus 100% on dodging them (while hoping that I'm actually killing stuff ).
Which part of the bullet spam? The large faeries' shots might have patterns, but since they are practically omnidirectional and so numerous it doesn't really matter. The ying-yang orbs have a pattern in that one of their shots will always be aiming at your general direction, so you can dash across and use that gap to move back the other way.
Curvy lasers still own me.
Actually, I just played without audio and realize how much more difficult it was for me to play the game without audio cues. Timings and such are so much easier to derive when you have music/sound
Oh yeah, a quick tip I noticed a while ago (for people who are new to this): when a boss or UFO is near-death, it makes a higher-pitched sound when it gets hit. I think that's a REALLY cool audial cue.
I've been trying to do a good run of Stage 6 for several days, now. Finally, I managed this:
First half was pretty bad, score-wise, but in the second half I outdid myself.
By the way, me > curvy lasers now. =D I learned that if I stay in a certain small area, there are only 3 lasers that I have to watch out for: one from my direct left, one from my direct right, and one that arcs down from the top-right. Since I'm only paying attention to these 3 trajectories, I can generally predict where they're going to go.
Also, I learned a trick to clearing the sub-boss more easily: stay on the right for the blue patterns and stay on the left for the red patterns.
By the way, I don't know about you guys, but the purple and red colours of the last spellcard actually make it harder for me. For some reason, I have trouble seeing/following the purple bullets when I'm following the red ones. o_O
Nice Bill, I have yet to go through practice mode for 6 without losing a life, though that's partly due to my insistence on getting through the curvy lasers without bombing :p As for the colors, I don't think that's intentional...or it could be, one never knows what ZUN in his drunken sadism can have for us~ It is certainly more annoying to follow purple ones when you are following red. Though personally using Reimu A I don't think I've had too many points where I have red/purple overlapping, just higher dps probably.
That boss audio cue is new, at least I don't recall hearing it in SA. Or I was simply distracted by music, can't count that out.
Now for someone to rip the tamusic albums, I need my touhou violin fix.
On August 26 2009 02:11 Ecael wrote: That boss audio cue is new, at least I don't recall hearing it in SA. Or I was simply distracted by music, can't count that out.
No, it's been there for a while. Since IN, I think.
I managed to not hear it from IN, MoF, and SA? Geez, sometimes I impress myself with how oblivious I can be. I suppose it isn't too hard when you are just humming along to the theme though :p
In terms of options I guess it is a personal choice, Bill use Sanae A, I absolutely hate Sanae A and much prefer B (and think that A sucks), though I've been sticking with Reimu A/needles for as long as I could. With some games there are clear differences, but otherwise it is just a playstyle thing.
Tri-color UFO gives inverted items, so power to point and point to power, 4x score at maxed out item, and drop another color changing UFO upon being killed/max item.
As for bomb vs lives, well, rather tough. On score runs I believe bomb/blue will be superior, but for people just trying to get through lives is probably the best as it is rather difficult to learn when to bomb. Green = 1 1/3 bomb, red = 2/3 life, but 1 life will refill up to 2 bombs if your bomb count is below 2, rounded down. Ideally you just bomb/blue since you can go through everything without getting hit. Less ideally you take bomb over life because you know when to bomb. Normally you just bomb like crazy and hope you don't waste bombs when you get hit
On August 26 2009 04:52 Antifate wrote: I have some questions:
Are some girls (the ones you use) better than others? I've looked at some touhou vids and everyone seems to use a different one T_T.
What do tri-color UFO's do? They don't really drop anything when they die (kind of like blues ).
Is it better to stock up on bombs or lives first? Or does it depend on the stage?
What does the little "power up" from blue UFO's do?
And is "Graze" just for cool points?
"Are some girls (the ones you use) better than others?" I've been wondering this, myself. I think that they're balanced between 3 attributes: a) main shot spread (for hitting things not directly in front of you) b) main shot damage output c) bomb usefulness (And maybe they differ in movement speed, too.)
E.g. Sanae A has a godlike bomb (it's basically a 5-second Mega Crush ^^), and imo her shot has really good spread, so she probably has low damage output.
IMO, you should pick whichever maiden matches your playstyle. E.g. I don't like to rely on bombs, so I should probably be using a character with a crappy bomb, not Sanae A. ^_^;; On the other hand, I like her shot a lot. And in any case, I'll probably stick with Sanae A or B just because she can DANCE! \(^.^\) (/^.^)/ \(^.^\) (/^.^)/
While we're on the topic of the maidens:
On August 26 2009 02:11 Ecael wrote: Though personally using Reimu A I don't think I've had too many points where I have red/purple overlapping, just higher dps probably.
O_O Wow. If I could defeat Byakuya-whatever-her-name-is before she reaches the red phase, I think I'd have a MUCH higher success rate against that pattern! But, I know from trying Reimu A that I'm bad with her, 'cause when I dodge bullets, I generally don't pay attention to anything else, such as whether or not I'm actually hitting the boss. ^^;;
Tri-colour UFOs do 3 things: 1. They release a colour-changing ufo when they fill up 100%, and they release another colour-changing ufo when they're destroyed. (By the way, every UFO drops a colour-changing ufo when it's destroyed.) 2. They turn blue cards (bonus points) into red cards (shot powerups) and vice-versa. 3. They give you a multiplier up to 4.0x, whatever that means.
For example, say you're trying to collect only red ufos, but there's a solid-blue one floating around. So you collect red-green-blue, fill and destroy the tri-colour UFO, and then you can get 2 reds again by picking up the 2 ufos it drops. Plus you get the extra points, and the bullet-clear when the UFO is destroyed.
Another example: in stage 6, you can get a LOT of blue cards but few red ones, so you can use a tri-colour UFO to quickly get max power by changing all the blue cards into red ones.
"Is it better to stock up on bombs or lives first?" I almost always stock up on lives, because your bombs are refilled to 2 every time you die, and because I usually die before using all of my bombs. I only get green UFOs when I have no bombs left, or when there are solid-green ufos floating around, since I'd might as well use them.
The Wiki link above goes into some detail about how the red and green UFOs compare to each other. The gist of it is, IF you can consistently use a bomb instead of dying, green UFOs are better. This is because each time you die, you lose 1 level of attack power, so bombing is preferable to dying. But, each time you die with extra bombs, you are essentially losing 2 bombs.
"And is "Graze" just for cool points?" It gives you actual points, actually.
Reimu A's dps isn't enough to bring her down before Red, but it is enough to take her down, if you have a good focus on her, by the middle of Red just about when Purple starts showing up. Marisa's lasers might have a higher damage output, but that's just from me messing around with Marisa A during Trial version. Oh, the name is Byakuren. And if you can't hit while dodging bullets, Reimu B or Sanae B are good options? Yay homing/AoE.
Movement speed definitely differ though, Marisa is invariably the fastest, and I feel like Sanae is the slowest normally (oh the amount of doujins on this, so good), there might be a small hitbox difference too. th8 definitely had hitbox size differences, can't remember off the top of my head about other ones though.
In comparing Sanae A to Reimu A, barring my love of characters (pfft Sanae, 2p color Reimu, that's all she is). Sanae A has a slightly shorter bomb duration but better movement speed during bomb I believe, not too sure about bomb power offhand. DPS is slightly lower too, but better utility due to that going in part.
The 4.0x multiplier I believe are just from the score items attached to the UFO, which kind of explains the insane point boosts you can see during stage 6
About dying, if people are interested in high score, it also sets back your score significantly, I believe. The wikia should have a much more comprehensive analysis on lost points. Graze too should be analyzed on the wikia, but iirc it is every 10graze = +10pt max points from blue.
On August 26 2009 06:19 Ecael wrote: And if you can't hit while dodging bullets, Reimu B or Sanae B are good options? Yay homing/AoE.
Erm, Sanae A seems like it would be far better suited.
Sanae B is actually far more nub friendly than Sanae A. Sanae A has a good bomb but her regular shot is dogshit garbage bad now that I think about it. Sanae B has a pretty steady damage output even if you're doding at the edge of the screen.
Nothing will ever beat the awesomeness that was Reimu/Yukari on IN. That character combo is the most nub friendly of any of the touhou period. 1 second delay after getting hit to bomb, both of them have a homing shit and Yukari's regular shot is hellishly powerful. If you really are new to Touhou i recommend starting with Imperishable Night.
I love Marisa A but her Master Spark slows her down SO much it's ridiculous. Her regular shot is the most powerful in the game when maxed out but that bomb is so annoying.
In regards to UFO shottypes, Reimu and Sanae are both the key choices here. Choosing which shot in particular all comes down to style and skill, and honestly, all of them are good choices depending on how you play. ReimuB and SanaeA both deal some of the poorest damage in the game, but they prove to be extremely useful during stages. ReimuA, or needle Reimu, is the primary kicker in the game as usual, with a good mix of high output damage and that lovely small hitbox. SanaeB is somewhere between ReimuB/SanaeA and ReimuA, in terms of both utility and damage.
To be perfectly honest, I don't think that Marisa has been a good character in the games since EoSD. In PCB, she's okay, but I prefer needle Reimu. In IN, Border Team is way too broken to pass up. In MoF, aside for MarisaBugged (which you honestly shouldn't use), she's terrible. Same goes for SA. It's nice to see that masterspark is back, but I really don't care :3
So I tried a bunch of different character types today.
ReimuB felt significantly weaker than SanaeA, and the homing balls frequently targetted the wrong enemies, which made it a lot harder for me to kill what I was actually firing at. She moved a lot slower, too. In addition, I have a habit of occasionally trying to finish off a UFO with a bomb, which obviously doesn't work at all with ReimuB. =/
MarisaA was quite fun to use. I don't question that she has the highest dps in the game, and it was nice to occasionally defeat bosses sooner than usual, often before their spellcards reached their most difficult patterns. Also, she seems GREAT for boosting your score with UFOs, since you can focus on killing a large # of enemies to fill the UFO, then focus on the UFO and rapidly destroy it, even if other enemies are in the way. But overall, I was defeating bosses a lot slower, and I'd usually die while trying to position myself in front of them. =/
SanaeB actually felt weaker than SanaeA. The AOE toads were really good when there were many enemies on screen, but sucked otherwise. On their own, SanaeA's serpents seem to do a lot more damage to bosses than the toads alone (since usually only 1 toad is actually hitting them if they're not directly in front of you, and even then, it's 2 max). And like all the B-types, apparently, SanaeB was much slower.
In general, I found I did best overall with SanaeA. Her serpents seem to be the best attack for damaging bosses when you're not directly in front of them, just a little off to the side, which for me is at least 75% of the time.
Reimu and Marisa's lack of good dance moves, music note emoticon, and the colour green were also key in my decision to stick with SanaeA.
Magician team is pretty good in IN for spell practice because it has the most outstanding DPS...:p
imo the thing about Sanae B is that you have to learn when to give up on focusing and abuse the AoE, the slow speed actually makes it a bit easier for me to manage finer movements, though I've gotten so used to Reimu A at this point that it doesn't matter :p Odd that you should be defeating bosses slower though, but I haven't played with Marisa A extensively past stage 3, so I wonder how I'd do there. Master Spark is so freaking slow though, urg.
Sanae's character feels like it has changed so much from MoF to SA to UFO lol, I wonder how much Touhou doujin ZUN reads heh, just from the things we saw in SA there is no way you'd really see music note emoticon-ing Sanae. Personally I just love a money grabbing Reimu ^^
I personally am a SanaeB user and it works absolutely amazing with unfocused shotgun. The damage output is incredible. But of course, this technique is also a lot harder to use, so I guess only the best players can use SanaeB to the best of her potential.
After various failed attempts, I finally managed to 1cc Normal again today, getting about 250m points twice. I'm still getting red UFOs at least 80% of the time, because when I get greedy -- getting blue UFOs and picking up ufo tokens during a UFO for higher bonus points -- I end up running out of lives somewhere on stage 6.
One was a messed up run with SanaeA where I died twice on the stage 2 boss, and lost my 2nd-last life as Byakuren died (I even had bombs at the time, but didn't think I needed to use one). ^_^;;;;;;
The other was a good run with MarisaB. Her focused damage output seems a tad higher than SanaeA when you're at the bottom of the screen, and significantly higher when you're higher up (so that all the shots are hitting your target). One of the low points of this run was when I realized I could hit Byakuren when she's at the bottom of the screen by using MarisaB's unfocused shot. I got all excited and started trying to think of a way to take advantage of this. =D And this was sufficiently distracting to kill me.
Something interesting I discovered: Byakuren's last spellcard attacks vary direction depending on your position! I was getting all up in her grill with Marisa, and after a while I noticed the rings were coming in at really strange angles that I'd never seen before. o_O Then as I moved back down, things returned to normal. Anyway. there are probably places you can sit that make the pattern significantly easier, and places that make the pattern significantly harder.
Yay I beat stage 4 (going in with 5 lives haha). Only to get gob-smacked by the boss of stage 5. How come Nazrin didn't use those spells when we first fought. :-P
CURVY LASERS ARGH.
Reimu = Red Marisa = Black Sanae = Green right?
In that case I was using Sanae B. ^.^
I actually like the stage 5 boss a lot better than Murasa. Got her down to one star with 2.xx power and 1 life. :D I dodge 3/4ths of the attacks by accident. I die on when Murasa isn't even using a spell most of the time. T_T
Something interseting about Murasa's non-spell patterns is that they are exactly the same every time, with respect to her position on-screen. (Credit to some guy on Youtube for this observation.) E.g. if you sit directly below her when she attacks, you can dodge the pattern in almost the exact same way every time: the only differences come from the handful of bullets that move so slow that they overlap into the 2nd wave of bullets.
I haven't bothered to memorize a path through the patterns, though: I just look for areas where the slow bullets are moving away from each other and/or leaving a large gap, and keep moving to areas like that. Then, when the line of faster bulelts comes, I can focus solely on slipping through it, because there are no slow bullets that are threatening me.
I'm trying to no-bomb practice on stage 4 and it's really not going well.
After some practice, I can make it through her first card without problems 90% of the time, it's just that on her weird second card with the "frozen" bullets that then fall on you I can't make it through without a bomb. Sometimes I can dodge until she's at like two shots away and then I get hit. They bullets seem to appear in columns with empty space in between them so I try to stay there, but then she moves around a lot and summons diagonal bullets which I can't deal with.
Then the anchors of doom appear. Trying to no bomb results in me losing a life every wave (where I'm not invulnerable from my last death). >.> The last spellcard I've already resigned that I'm going to have to spend bombs on. T_T
Edit: Oooh, staying up on the screen during her second spellcard really really really helps.
On August 29 2009 08:50 Antifate wrote: I'm trying to no-bomb practice on stage 4 and it's really not going well.
After some practice, I can make it through her first card without problems 90% of the time, it's just that on her weird second card with the "frozen" bullets that then fall on you I can't make it through without a bomb. Sometimes I can dodge until she's at like two shots away and then I get hit. They bullets seem to appear in columns with empty space in between them so I try to stay there, but then she moves around a lot and summons diagonal bullets which I can't deal with.
Then the anchors of doom appear. Trying to no bomb results in me losing a life every wave (where I'm not invulnerable from my last death). >.> The last spellcard I've already resigned that I'm going to have to spend bombs on. T_T
Edit: Oooh, staying up on the screen during her second spellcard really really really helps.
This might be helpful, if you haven't seen it yet:
Edit: actually, this guy has a much better strategy for the last spellcard (on Lunatic, even):
Notice how he has it timed so that he can move through the bullets horizontally or vertically, rather than having to move on an angle. There's a way to do this on Normal, too: I got it to happen once during the latter half of the spellcard (and it made it a lot easier to clear), but I don't remember the timing or positioning for it.
MarisaA was quite fun to use. But overall, I was defeating bosses a lot slower, and I'd usually die while trying to position myself in front of them. =/
This is just a factor of practice.
Much like the magician team in IN Marisa A sports the highest DPS in the game by a considerable margin so if you're going for just capturing spell cards she will typically kill bosses before you have to go through a second round of dodging. The issue is of course that you have to be right under the boss to inflict said damage... something that is increasingly difficult to do on Hard/Lunatic difficulties if you don't plan for it.
When I see a pattern I sub consciously pick a path that allows me to stay with the boss when I play MarisaA just because I do it so often now. Happens all on it's own. It also makes playing every other character a bit easier because they have a greater margin of error.
You just have to start centering avoidance around the center of the screen and really follow the boss movements much more closely.
Since this is the only Touhou game I play, I figure I'll post this here.
So I've been giving Hard mode a go. Finally figured out how to capture Nazrin's last spellcard (you have to run up inside the prism circle while it's expanding).
Now I'm trying to unlock stage 3 for practice. Actually I had it in the bag just now, but got scammed out of it by a laser that hit me after the boss had died and most of the bullets had already disappeared. I had 2 bombs left, but didn't want to "waste" one. This kind of thing seems to happen a lot, probably because I get distracted thinking "I bet I'm gonna die if I don't bomb..." T_T
Recently, I've started score-running Easy mode for fun. I got 492 mil on my previous run, and decided I wanted to crack 500 mil.
Today, I just finished Easy with 608 million points, but moreover, I did a no miss (no deaths) clear of the entire game!
I can't believe it. This is the first time I've no-missed an entire shmup ever. The pressure was immense: going into Byakuren, I realized what I was about to accomplish and needed to take a minute to just relax and focus. The fight went well overall, except for the curvy lasers where I almost died twice.
For scoring, I used the strategy of increasing the bonus item value as much as possible before stages 5 and 6. I did this by getting only tri-colour UFOs and collecting as many ufo tokens as possible while the big UFOs were on-screen. By stage 5, I had only 95 mil points, but a bonus item value of 35,000. By stage 6, I had 364 mil points and a bonus item value of 39,000. In stages 5 and 6, I got mostly blue UFOs to collect as many points as possible.
My attention far as TH12 goes has already shifted entirely from the game to the doujins, where Byakuren seems to be the best received stage6 boss for a loooong time.
EPT
Right now I'm running the game solely to use the Music Room while doing other stuff. 
