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Every fleetconcept in EvE has a specific purpose. No, I didn't miss the armor hacs. 
To find out how to counter a fleetsetup look at what it's designed against and work from there. The idea of armor Hacs is to fight BS heavy fleets with the ability to facerape capitals - all without using capitals of your own. They operate at closerange, usually fly below tracking and have insane repping power.
vs LR Hacs its basicly a stalemate. The Armor Hac guys can be a little more retarded though.
vs Darkside style Drakefleets its a slugfest. I'd expect the armor hacs to hold the field while the drakefleet wins the isk war. (they can kill tacklers easier and one lost hac is already huge here)
Feel free to tell me if there is some new awesome concept I'm missing.
The huge drawback of armor hacs however is... they suck for roaming since they cant pin down shit. IF they are on top of their target (BS/Capfleet, sup?) it's done, but no serious roaming fleet will get caught by them, where Darkside and even LR Hacs can chase and pin down cruiser or BC sized fleets.
Armor Hacs: find BS fleet/pos takedown with caps, roll in, rape whatever they throw at you.
LR hacs: Roam around, gank fast and nice - pin down caps to rape reinforcements, kill loads of stuff while being chased
DSS: Roam around, rape random defense fleets and effectively keep losing hostiles pinned down
All three concepts can fight 1:2 odds at least, however LR hacs and DSS (Darksidestyle/Drakes, Scimmies, Support) have trouble with BS fleets.
Except for the slow roaming (warps slowest of those three) speed I still think DSS = fucking sexy for its price. LR Hacs are more fun but no where near as cost-effective.
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armorhacs = afterburners = no disengageing in 0.0 due to bubbles
you better be damn sure you can win a fight before engageing.
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Yeah, the main issue with the armor hacs is that it's very difficult to disengage with them.
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On July 21 2010 08:23 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 06:41 Viceorvirtue wrote:
You didnt miss much, I played WoW for a while, got a rogue to 80, did naxx, uld, toc, icc, and to be completely honest from everything Ive read and researched about EVE, it seems infinitely better than WoW. The pvp in WoW, even on a pvp server, is almost nonexistant and EVE seems like it would be much more fun in that respect. Im hoping to go minmataur since they get faster access to the rifter which is apperently pretty good to start pvp with once you skill up and outfit it, besides it seems like a cheap and easy tackler/ganker. Both at one time were extremely good games. Both games aren't as good as they used to be. The thing is I quit WoW and i'm still playing Eve...so that should be a strong hint as to which one is just plain better right now. Eve at least is still generally playable. Faffy's new vagabond HACs are a decent idea against the PL Fist of Rape but man, armor Vagabonds just make me sad to see.
Wow PvP died as flying mounts came.
*nearly* in a Drake... just a question of money.. gogo me :p
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On July 22 2010 04:06 WiljushkA wrote:
armorhacs = afterburners = no disengageing in 0.0 due to bubbles
you better be damn sure you can win a fight before engageing.
Considering the armor hacs can fight 1:3 -> 1:4 odds against BS/Cap fleets i'd say you have a pretty damn good chance at winning fights but yes their one weakness is their commitment.
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Armor Hacs = Afterburners because you don't got enough grid to fit MWD or why?
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MWD's boost your sig radius by a factor of five. By using afterburners you keep your sig radius low so battleships can't hit you.
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Ah, and BS hit's armor hac = byebye armor hac.
For that no disengagingv/MWD?
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On July 22 2010 03:35 r.Evo wrote:Every fleetconcept in EvE has a specific purpose. No, I didn't miss the armor hacs. To find out how to counter a fleetsetup look at what it's designed against and work from there. The idea of armor Hacs is to fight BS heavy fleets with the ability to facerape capitals - all without using capitals of your own. They operate at closerange, usually fly below tracking and have insane repping power. vs LR Hacs its basicly a stalemate. The Armor Hac guys can be a little more retarded though. vs Darkside style Drakefleets its a slugfest. I'd expect the armor hacs to hold the field while the drakefleet wins the isk war. (they can kill tacklers easier and one lost hac is already huge here) Feel free to tell me if there is some new awesome concept I'm missing. The huge drawback of armor hacs however is... they suck for roaming since they cant pin down shit. IF they are on top of their target (BS/Capfleet, sup?) it's done, but no serious roaming fleet will get caught by them, where Darkside and even LR Hacs can chase and pin down cruiser or BC sized fleets.Armor Hacs: find BS fleet/pos takedown with caps, roll in, rape whatever they throw at you. LR hacs: Roam around, gank fast and nice - pin down caps to rape reinforcements, kill loads of stuff while being chased DSS: Roam around, rape random defense fleets and effectively keep losing hostiles pinned down All three concepts can fight 1:2 odds at least, however LR hacs and DSS (Darksidestyle/Drakes, Scimmies, Support) have trouble with BS fleets. Except for the slow roaming (warps slowest of those three) speed I still think DSS = fucking sexy for its price. LR Hacs are more fun but no where near as cost-effective.
I thought of what you said, especially the bolded part and it occurred to me that you might be able to lure them in with 20 bs's or more, have them drop bubbles and drop your own and at that point engage with an epic fleet of stealth-bombers. It may sound a wee silly but when you think about it, it might have the potential to ruin their day because they're sitting just chilling in a confined area, with no real ability to warp out, relying almost entirely on transversal and reps to tank the incoming dps. No amount of abing is going to get you out of range of 30-50+ bombs shot off at once and while the bombs will probably blow the bubbles up they will also alpha anything inside them too. Major downsides that I can see are that this would be some pretty nasty friendly fire (bye bye bait bs's ) and you'd have to be careful about getting the sb's into the system without being spotted (Maybe black ops would be of some help here).
Edit: Or this could just be LOL stupid.
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On July 22 2010 19:26 Ramsing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 03:35 r.Evo wrote:Every fleetconcept in EvE has a specific purpose. No, I didn't miss the armor hacs. To find out how to counter a fleetsetup look at what it's designed against and work from there. The idea of armor Hacs is to fight BS heavy fleets with the ability to facerape capitals - all without using capitals of your own. They operate at closerange, usually fly below tracking and have insane repping power. vs LR Hacs its basicly a stalemate. The Armor Hac guys can be a little more retarded though. vs Darkside style Drakefleets its a slugfest. I'd expect the armor hacs to hold the field while the drakefleet wins the isk war. (they can kill tacklers easier and one lost hac is already huge here) Feel free to tell me if there is some new awesome concept I'm missing. The huge drawback of armor hacs however is... they suck for roaming since they cant pin down shit. IF they are on top of their target (BS/Capfleet, sup?) it's done, but no serious roaming fleet will get caught by them, where Darkside and even LR Hacs can chase and pin down cruiser or BC sized fleets.Armor Hacs: find BS fleet/pos takedown with caps, roll in, rape whatever they throw at you. LR hacs: Roam around, gank fast and nice - pin down caps to rape reinforcements, kill loads of stuff while being chased DSS: Roam around, rape random defense fleets and effectively keep losing hostiles pinned down All three concepts can fight 1:2 odds at least, however LR hacs and DSS (Darksidestyle/Drakes, Scimmies, Support) have trouble with BS fleets. Except for the slow roaming (warps slowest of those three) speed I still think DSS = fucking sexy for its price. LR Hacs are more fun but no where near as cost-effective. I thought of what you said, especially the bolded part and it occurred to me that you might be able to lure them in with 20 bs's or more, have them drop bubbles and drop your own and at that point engage with an epic fleet of stealth-bombers. It may sound a wee silly but when you think about it, it might have the potential to ruin their day because they're sitting just chilling in a confined area, with no real ability to warp out, relying almost entirely on transversal and reps to tank the incoming dps. No amount of abing is going to get you out of range of 30-50+ bombs shot off at once and while the bombs will probably blow the bubbles up they will also alpha anything inside them too. Major downsides that I can see are that this would be some pretty nasty friendly fire (bye bye bait bs's ) and you'd have to be careful about getting the sb's into the system without being spotted (Maybe black ops would be of some help here). Edit: Or this could just be LOL stupid.
If I ever have told FC against those faggots... I want one bombersquad with voidbombs - and shamis' comments live on coms. =D
Edit: the disengaging part is not as hard as you guys make it sound like. They rape light tackle, dictors/hictors. They rape any disorganized fleetcomposition. LR fleets cant pin them. Face to face they outdamage and outrep drakefleets. Iirc the two main events where armor hacs died where a) vs NC when they used titans to snipe guardians and b) 40ish vs 200ish+ when the grid lagged out aka no repping.
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I've theorized that using a squad of high-volley sniper tempests could work well. How do you rep if you die in one shot? Even with LR ammo, a pest still does a 5000 volley at 170 optimal, 230 max range. This is also notwithstanding 11000 volley damage with CR ammo loaded.
EDIT: After doing a bit of EFT warrioring I realized that a sniper tempest even at 200km can barely do any damage to the low sig of a guardian.
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Sniper setups are generally weak in EVE from what I see, outside from HML over HAL when would I go for the range fit in PvP?
If you snipe you are out of range of tackle but your alpha is way too low to instagib anything and the low damage and lack of tackle allows speedtankers to get under your falloff and then you are screwed.
I love the idea of using extreme range to your advantage but I just don't see it working under any situation 
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Sniper setups are very high damage both DPS and volley. They are also far better (due to range) at applying damage to targets. The only thing most sniper setups lack is significant tank.
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The main part of AHAC survivability comes from the low sigradious. The guardians are just there to do what repping is needed to be done. Brawler style bc's that GC likes to do might do well against ahacs though, maybe even drakes with some dedicated TP, web ships... ARMOR HUGINNS.
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United States44439 Posts
A fleet op and two highly expensive kills reminded me just how fun this game can be. Kestrel > Raven imo.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
well, submit the killmails here. Don't be shy.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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Wrathful Penguins > i let a fucking ejecteded lachesis die
Belial Edge > thanks insurance, I only spent 10m on my ship
Wrathful Penguins > fucked up the tackle on the geddon
Wrathful Penguins > let our drake not fit a point
Wrathful Penguins > and then got us all killed
Wrathful Penguins > in one roam
Wrathful Penguins > am i awesome or what
Belial Edge > successful day
Belial Edge > imho
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Drake should have had 2 points atleast, and a sebo does not count.
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On July 24 2010 11:52 H wrote:
Wrathful Penguins > i let a fucking ejecteded lachesis die
Belial Edge > thanks insurance, I only spent 10m on my ship
Wrathful Penguins > fucked up the tackle on the geddon
Wrathful Penguins > let our drake not fit a point
Wrathful Penguins > and then got us all killed
Wrathful Penguins > in one roam
Wrathful Penguins > am i awesome or what
Belial Edge > successful day
Belial Edge > imho
also i lost a t1 fitted vigil but you guys didn't see that so we can pretend it didn't happen
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EPT
