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motbob
United States12546 Posts
[06:55:56] Wrathful Penguins > no but seriously did you see the second game of skt1 vs fox?
[06:56:17] LionBlue > no? who r they?
[06:56:30] BillNyeTheEVEguy > progamers
[06:56:32] Wrathful Penguins > sk telecom t1 and wemade fox?
[06:56:37] BillNyeTheEVEguy > fox is one of the best
[06:56:38] Wrathful Penguins > pretty famous programers
[06:56:48] LionBlue > US? asia? euro?
[06:56:51] Wrathful Penguins > fox invented modern pvt
[06:56:54] BillNyeTheEVEguy > asia
[06:57:13] LionBlue > ah, i'm mostly just familar with tester from asia
[06:57:18] LionBlue > and the BW pro's
[06:57:24] BillNyeTheEVEguy > hmm
[06:57:25] Wrathful Penguins > orly ;;
[06:57:34] BillNyeTheEVEguy > that's an interesting statement to make
[06:57:42] LionBlue > lol
[06:57:45] BillNyeTheEVEguy > which is your favorite SC1 progamer?
[06:57:48] Wrathful Penguins > fox is a pretty big broodwar
[06:57:51] LionBlue > it is a statement
[06:58:00] LionBlue > i'm a huge fan of flash
[06:58:24] LionBlue > and mind
[06:58:26] BillNyeTheEVEguy > it's a good thing that you're not in corp
[06:58:34] LionBlue > lol y?
[06:58:37] BillNyeTheEVEguy > because that way i don't have to kick you
[06:58:45] LionBlue > >.>
[06:59:08] LionBlue > who's your favorite?
[06:59:14] Wrathful Penguins > bisu
[06:59:16] Wrathful Penguins > he's the hottest
[06:59:17] Wrathful Penguins > irl
[06:59:22] LionBlue > lol..
[06:59:26] Wrathful Penguins > and that's all that matters
[06:59:26] BillNyeTheEVEguy > lomo
[06:59:26] LionBlue > bisu is epic tho
[06:59:51] BillNyeTheEVEguy > lomo could model in the U.S., i dunno why koreans don't have him in the same category as hwasin
[07:00:02] Wrathful Penguins > yeah he's pretty cute
[07:00:08] Wrathful Penguins > in a kind of 13 year old girl way
[07:00:08] BillNyeTheEVEguy > hey, wasn't it awesome when bisu helped his team win PL last year
[07:00:19] BillNyeTheEVEguy > his team uh
[07:00:21] Wrathful Penguins > i didn't care
[07:00:25] BillNyeTheEVEguy > what was the name of that team
[07:00:26] Wrathful Penguins > i was just looking at his buttocks
[07:00:31] BillNyeTheEVEguy > can't remember
[07:00:35] Wrathful Penguins > me neither
[07:00:51] BillNyeTheEVEguy > started with an S i think?
[07:00:52] Wrathful Penguins > oh he's on kt rolster with all the air force guys and jaedong
[07:00:54] Wrathful Penguins > isn't he?
[07:01:02] BillNyeTheEVEguy > nah i think he transferred out
[07:01:12] BillNyeTheEVEguy > as a part of the whole free agenc thing
[07:01:17] Wrathful Penguins > ah
[07:01:20] Wrathful Penguins > yeah he and lebron
[07:01:36] BillNyeTheEVEguy > yes
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Your sig is the only way to respond to that
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Thank you for posting that.
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So... I'm a day away from finishing Corp 5 on JP and Prop Jamming IV on JR and I still don't know what I'm gonna be training for on either character 
Let's hear what you guys think is good on each race. I want to fly Caldari on JP and Gallente on JR. Of course I'm talking about Tech II ships.
Everything is on the table. Electronic Attack Frigs, Recon, Heavy Interdictors, Command, EVERYTHING except for Logistics :p
A ranking would be cool  X/5 for each Tech II ship.
I was thinking of going a) Assault->HAC->Command, b) Spec Ops->Recon->Black Ops, or c) Interceptor->Interdictor->HIC; That goes for both characters, but we already discussed Gallente Command Ships and they are not looking good XD.
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Logistics>Light Dictor> Recon> HAC/BC DPS ship of FC choice>all else for regular roams that aren't specialized. I haven't run into any Gallente specialized themed fleets that I know of short of domi rep fleets, and maybe dual prop inty roams...
Electronic Attack Frigs aren't really used for roams because they are too flimsy
Gallente Recons are lovely <3
Heavy interdictors...are heavy interdictors
Ishkur/Ishtar are a good AF/Hac
Get your support skills up to par first though.
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Gallente Recons pwn. Ishtar is a cool ship, sucks in roams with more than 10 people unless you do a fleet designed around it. Deimos is 3rd place for sniperhacs aka bad and useless closerange. Commandships are horrible. Myrm is cool for soloing and fcing BC brosefs, horrible for anything else. Domi / Mega are cool for BS fleets.
Gallente t2 frigs are awesome.
Overall: I dont recommend it. You can be a random sniperhac in those fleets or fly recon. Actually I can't find a situation where I DONT want a gallente pilot in a recon. Shieldtanked ishtar is your ship for nanohac gangs. If you are fine flying ONLY those three ships with those setups in sub-BS fleets... go for it.
Keep in mind that ishtar is useless without t2 sentries and t2 heavies (same for domi) so it takes a rather long time to crosstrain a second race (where I recommend amarr for curse and zealot or caldari for the best droneboat in the game). Recon 5 asap plzkthx.
Phobos is completely useless in any shieldtanked fleet, worst hic in the game. Shieldtanked myrm/brutix are worst shield-bcs, too. (even though all droneboats are fucking versatile, they shine solo and in 3-10 men roams)
Make it
a) AF - Hac - dronesdronesdrones - domi
b) covops - recon - crosstrain (yes, ignore hacs and ignore t2 medium guns in this case ... muninn or zealot plus that races recon is worth more than gallente t2 guns just for the deimos)
Basicly you are useless for nanoroams without the ishtar aka 2months of droneskills. Arazu and even lachesis can work there though. Get those recons going. =D
For caldari, ask vil.
Caldari is awesome in bc fleets (drake obv), only option for small roams are falcons and rooks. Unless things changed drastically all people who started caldari crosstrained cause of lolfucknano.
If I were you I'd do one char gallente/amarr recon and one char minmatar hac or dic/hic.
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Tiers are pretty tough to do because things change drastically fleet to fleet. I'll try to give a breakdown of what's useful in the most situations based on the classes you listed.
1. Inties: Get a dramiel. There are specialized uses for some inties (rail ranises to try to gank dramiels and dual sebo'd stilettos for gate tackling), and you won't have to shell out for 80m frig hulls. If your heart is set on getting into ceptors, I'd recommend gallente or minny so that you can use the aforementioned ships and also so that you'll have the skills when you can afford a dramiel.
2. EAS: Way too squishy to be useful. The only time you ever see them is in Alliance Tournament. Wouldn't waste the SP.
3. Assault Frigs: The only AFs that aren't completely loltastic are the ishkur and the wolf. However, flying the best AF is like being the smartest retard. I wouldn't waste the SP, tbqh.
4. HACs: Ahhh the heavy assault cruiser. Close range hacs have recently become quite flavor of the month with the introduciton of the "Fist of Rape," composed of armor hacs with afterburners, a shitload of guardians and a pack of command ships running armor and sig radius bonuses. You also have the previously FOTM snipe hac gang, which is still quite a fun fleet to fly in. For either of these, the Zealot is undisputedly the best. Great DPS and great EHP. The Muninn is second best for sniping, and the ishtar is second best for armor hac gangs. Neither Caldari nor Gallente HACs are really worth training. They're just not very good.
The other main use for hacs is in nano gangs. The vaga is probably the best non-faction nano boat, and it's still worth training minny HAC, imo, because vagas are WAY cheaper than cynabls and muninns are good snipe hacs. Like revo said, the ishtar is also a respectable nanoboat but you need a TON of drone skills. The Caldari HACs are shit. Avoid them at all costs.
5. Command Ships: I disagree with Revo on command ships. They are absolutely invaluable in gang boosting roles. That being said, they require a lot of training and most likely using a remap (charisma for leadership skills). It'll be at least a year before you'd be able to fly one well. As far as how the commandships stack up, the amarr ones are amazing armor boosters and can tank incredible amounts of dps, the minny and caldari ones are nice for shield gangs, and the Gallente ones are terrible.
6. Interdictors/HICtors: The Sabre is the best, but the most expensive by a good bit, and if you're using it in a fleet role, you're going to lose a lot of them. The Broadsword is the best HICtor for shield fleets, followed by the Onyx. Devoters are good as heavy tacklers in armor fleets and for holding down capitals. The Phobos is the worst HIC by quite a large margin.
As far as recons go, pretty much what Revo said. Hard to go wrong with Gallente recons.
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On July 26 2010 10:44 s_side wrote:
3. Assault Frigs: The only AFs that aren't completely loltastic are the ishkur and the wolf. However, flying the best AF is like being the smartest retard. I wouldn't waste the SP, tbqh.
The Jaguar kills just about any frigate or cruiser (including DRONE BOATS) with the right fit as long as the target isn't carrying a neut on it.
I haven't seen a single use for the Wolf but the Jag is pretty freaking awesome.
Also the Lachesis isn't that great Gallente recon wise as far as I know.....Arazu is damn good though but this isnt my area of expertise
Caldari are trash for PvP unless you go the Ewar route unless all you want to fly is a Drake. Unfortunately this is an area I have way too much experience in.
Rockets are way overnerfed, so are Torpedos. Missiles in general are rather sub par DPS unless used in a sniper role (IE a quartet of ravens sniping LARGE tertiary targets and alpha striking them). While they can field some immense tanks their DPS abilities just about cripples them.
You can't blame it on the Caldari ships though. CCP went retarded with missile rebalancing and while Turrets only have Range/Tracking to worry about Missiles pretty much have DOUBLE tracking penalties against smaller targets, one of which is entirely insurmountable with mods. Where as a Tempest will pretty much alpha strike a Jaguar into dust given proper range...that same Jaguar can tank 3 ravens without much effort involved due to the retarded implementation of explosion radius...the belief that a larger explosion next to a small target somehow does less damage than a smaller explosion caused anything without an explosion radius bonus to be pretty much subpar in pvp...except the drake which is there as a brick wall and nothing else.
So there you have it, if you want to PvP in a Caldari ship you pretty much need to fly an Ewar ship like a Falcon because anything else besides the Drake is absolute fail.
God damn explosion radius pisses me off so much because it makes no god damn sense.
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TLDR: FU GALLENTE (except for recons <3) crosstrain instead
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Whenever you dont need the cloak (aka sniperhacs, darksidegangs) lachesis is better than the arazu. Its just way cheaper and faster (!). The covops cloak is cool when you intend to use it for scouting or probing. Personally I hate covops/cloaky recons as scouts for small to medium roams. Rather one dude with a covops and his alt than someone losing the most important tackler cause of him wanting to be sneaky. =D
Also to safe face: Gallente commandships are utter trash. Obv I'm in love with the other commandships. minnie > caldari > amarr for "our" fleets usually.
Edit: small bonus for caldari.. at least darkside is using the cerb in their small roams quite frequently. Its job there is high, constant dps from range to support vagas and cynabals. But, hell, pvp in a drake or cerb is... well, can someone link the picture from my ingame profile please? =D
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On July 26 2010 10:59 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 10:44 s_side wrote:
3. Assault Frigs: The only AFs that aren't completely loltastic are the ishkur and the wolf. However, flying the best AF is like being the smartest retard. I wouldn't waste the SP, tbqh.
Rockets are way overnerfed, so are Torpedos. Missiles in general are rather sub par DPS unless used in a sniper role (IE a quartet of ravens sniping LARGE tertiary targets and alpha striking them). While they can field some immense tanks their DPS abilities just about cripples them.
Talk to faffy about rockets; crow anyone?
Talk to genos about torps. If you dont know that name, check for videos now. 3 torpraven 10 osprey gang is pretty fucking hilarious. They DO have a purpose - just not in any serious 0.0 fleetconcept.
And, in all honesty.. the easiest thing to find in eve are drakepilots. No need to train them for the team. =D
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On July 26 2010 11:22 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 10:59 Jayme wrote:On July 26 2010 10:44 s_side wrote:
3. Assault Frigs: The only AFs that aren't completely loltastic are the ishkur and the wolf. However, flying the best AF is like being the smartest retard. I wouldn't waste the SP, tbqh.
Rockets are way overnerfed, so are Torpedos. Missiles in general are rather sub par DPS unless used in a sniper role (IE a quartet of ravens sniping LARGE tertiary targets and alpha striking them). While they can field some immense tanks their DPS abilities just about cripples them. Talk to faffy about rockets; crow anyone? Talk to genos about torps. If you dont know that name, check for videos now. 3 torpraven 10 osprey gang is pretty fucking hilarious. They DO have a purpose - just not in any serious 0.0 fleetconcept. And, in all honesty.. the easiest thing to find in eve are drakepilots. No need to train them for the team. =D
That's fine, you can bring up one example of someone using rockets to make them I dunno.. SEEM normal? but they arent.
They have an effective explosion speed of 85 m/s(This is 4 m/s more than a heavy missile)...where you'd think it should be 285 m/s. This means that you'll be hitting interceptors for about 10 damage. I don't know how well he solo's in a rocket Crow without a really gimmicky fit but if he runs into any other close range ceptor that is piloted with competence he'll be outclassed
Then you bring up a 3 torpedo raven setup with 10 osprey...where a 3 megathron 10 w/e the t1 armor rep cruiser you choose here will do what they do just as effectively...or 3 maelstrom 10 osprey. Whatever works. Torpedos have pretty weak DPS and it's sad.
Yes they have uses sure, but compared to other options they are Subpar...which is pretty much irrefutable.
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OK so I'm going Gallente Recons on JR and Caldari HIC's on JP
After that start doing some cross-training. Amarr Recons and Minmitar HIC's.
Some of you have links to good Gallente Recon ships (both) and Onyx fits? I want to start working on those skillpans asap.
Thanks folks!
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Lachesis: dcu, 2x nano, mwd, 3xlse, 2x republic fleet warp dis, invuln ... 3x hml, medium neut, salvager ... anti-em rig+extender
Arazu: dcu, co-proc, 2x nano, mwd, 2x lse, invuln, republic fleet dis, true sansha scram, 2x 250mm rails, sisters probe launcher, cov ops cloak.... anti-em + extender rig.
Use the faction pimp whenever you have a minnie commandship boosting you in medium sized fleets, arazu can be always pimped. consider eccm in small fleets. remember to heat the shit out of your mwd and your invuln when engaging, you are a top tier target. Also your range of engagement (50-70km from the primary) is rather close, dont get wtfpwnd by failclicks towards them or fail anti-tackle in your own fleet. Recons are pretty tough to fly since they are rather thin and everyone wants them dead asap. On the bright side, if you are good in them you are invaluable to your fleet. Next to logistics and the scout its one of the toughest positions imo.
Onyx: tank it. nano it. gg.
If you want to go caldari JUST for the hic and dont like drakes do yourself a favor and gogo minnie. =D
Edit: good news, primary list for recons usually goes: curse first then gallente recons, then falcons and minmatar recons. Weaker FCs tend to go falcons, then curse, then gallente and minmatar last. So if you think you die too much wait till you fly a curse.
While falcons take away dps from your fleet for some time (and only dps) curse instagimps its targets. Gallente/Minnie recons however take away mobility which is what strong fleets and their fcs (e.g. darkside) are afraid of most. If your members are too dumb to get away when primed anyway theres no need to kill a lach, so to speak. =D
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On July 26 2010 10:59 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 10:44 s_side wrote:
3. Assault Frigs: The only AFs that aren't completely loltastic are the ishkur and the wolf. However, flying the best AF is like being the smartest retard. I wouldn't waste the SP, tbqh.
The Jaguar kills just about any frigate or cruiser (including DRONE BOATS) with the right fit as long as the target isn't carrying a neut on it. I haven't seen a single use for the Wolf but the Jag is pretty freaking awesome. Also the Lachesis isn't that great Gallente recon wise as far as I know.....Arazu is damn good though but this isnt my area of expertise Caldari are trash for PvP unless you go the Ewar route unless all you want to fly is a Drake. Unfortunately this is an area I have way too much experience in. Rockets are way overnerfed, so are Torpedos. Missiles in general are rather sub par DPS unless used in a sniper role (IE a quartet of ravens sniping LARGE tertiary targets and alpha striking them). While they can field some immense tanks their DPS abilities just about cripples them. You can't blame it on the Caldari ships though. CCP went retarded with missile rebalancing and while Turrets only have Range/Tracking to worry about Missiles pretty much have DOUBLE tracking penalties against smaller targets, one of which is entirely insurmountable with mods. Where as a Tempest will pretty much alpha strike a Jaguar into dust given proper range...that same Jaguar can tank 3 ravens without much effort involved due to the retarded implementation of explosion radius...the belief that a larger explosion next to a small target somehow does less damage than a smaller explosion caused anything without an explosion radius bonus to be pretty much subpar in pvp...except the drake which is there as a brick wall and nothing else. So there you have it, if you want to PvP in a Caldari ship you pretty much need to fly an Ewar ship like a Falcon because anything else besides the Drake is absolute fail. God damn explosion radius pisses me off so much because it makes no god damn sense.
I agree that missiles need fixing, but they also should receive a range nerf to compensate. Not exactly fair if they buff drake damage (though they could use a small buff) but still allow them to do that same damage at 50km+, when any other close range turret BC fit similarly won't even do damage at 40km+ (and if they are snipe fit they still need to spare at least 2-3 slots to upgrade their optimal range assuming they aren't amarr). I'll still end up cross training all 4 races because I'm not too fond of Battleships.
On July 27 2010 02:25 r.Evo wrote:
On the bright side, if you are good in them you are invaluable to your fleet. Next to logistics and the scout its one of the toughest positions imo.
Edit: good news, primary list for recons usually goes: curse first then gallente recons, then falcons and minmatar recons. Weaker FCs tend to go falcons, then curse, then gallente and minmatar last. So if you think you die too much wait till you fly a curse.
Damn, I should have gotten Minmatar cruiser V first instead of Amarr Cruiser V. Also if you want to know how to be a good scout, you can message me ingame and I can give you a quick lesson!
WTF REVO WRU, WE HAS IMPORTANT BUSINESS TO DISCUSS
Edit 2: Or if your fleet is to dumb/scared to burn and even get in range for them to be pointed by a lach you can leave them alone, right Revo?
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On a side note about rockets for any eft warriors. From what testing me and vil did(him shooting me in stiletto outside kzf station for 5 mins in a crow :>) we came to th econclusion that eft doesn't calculate rocket damage correctly. It reports something like 90dps for the crow while even if I orbited vil at max speed with scram and web on me(scram and web is crucial for rockets) he was ding something like 130dps to me. Dunno ho wmuch if I had stood still.
I guess there's corp business that needs to be summarized but I don't think I should be the one to do it 
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we have been betrayed!
consequences will never be the same!
User was temp banned for this post.
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Its cause of SC2, AHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHhhhhh
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i hope you stole at least something before you left, or else youve learned nothing young padawan
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I just got like 4 PMs about "Do you know that some dudes are joining onion?" ... No, I dont and I still need a few more days till I can sign on eve.
Stick together guys, would be really gay if more than one year and pretty sexy corpstats would be ruined so easily. There cant be better temptation now than the last times people tried to pull the "gogo join my corp"-thing. Direcs to the rescue! =)
Otherwise I have to learn russian and join Darkside.
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EPT
