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United States7481 Posts
bro i told them to come to synd like a month ago, no dice
synd owns! here's an aar of our op last night
+ Show Spoiler [syndicate #1 region in the game] +The goal for last night was to do a tour of the Syndicate hot spots and try to get a read on where folks stand during US prime. What ended up happening was something quite different. We head out just after 0100. Gang was two scims, a bubble, long point, 4 or 5 canes, couple intes. We check PC9 and it's empty. We check VV and it's only got a couple people in it. We send eyes to 97X/Y9G and there's only a couple Raven Fed in there. I turn us around for FD- and burn up there full speed. On the way a Flying Dangerous Omen derps into us. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26808 (Omen) The guys in F67E are @ 16 in local, but of course they just dock up and run to POS as soon as we are within two systems. We make it up as far as XB without any excitement, but then we get a report of a Rote gang in FD-. The rote scout is right ahead of us, so we yump in with everything except the Logi. Their scout pulls off a burn back and we pile in. They try to pull range on the gate, we rush in after them. They murder Kulthu before our logi has a chance to adjust. Then things start to go in our favor. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26807 (Harb) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26809 (Cane) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26810 (Stiletto) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26812 (Cane) We lose Morganta, but then we rally back to the gate. We bounce to the sun, eyes call that Rote is headed to XM. We rush to catch some stragglers and nab another cane. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26811 (Cane) We come out ahead in the fight trading two canes for Harb, Cane, Cane Stiletto. CP 1 Rote 0 We loot up and bounce back to check out PF- I send in Buss and he spots a Vaga on the gate with him. The guy jumps and cloaks. Not sure what his overall plan was, but he was super hosed. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26815 (Vaga) The folks who died spot a Handsome Millionaire Playboys gang in F67E. They outnumbered us both on Logi and on muscle. They try to bait us with a Lach, but then give up. We head back down the pipe trailing them. They double back and I just tell them outright in local that if they let us go home we will give them a fight. This seems to eventually soak in as they quickly get out of our way. They accidentally head us off in V4, but we get around them and re-ship. We pick up a couple late arivals and switch to a 4 Logi, all shield BC load out. Aloe trails them with dirtneck as far as M2. We go tearing after them and catch up with them in M2 on the 97X gate. As we land on the gate with them, they jump into 97X. They try the same thing Rote did. To pull range off the gate and kite. Here's the thing. Both Rote and HMP didn't have the long webs and long points to make that strategy work. Also we had a fuckload of canes, so it's not like we had any trouble keeping up. I was their first primary, They get me into structure before I make it back to the gate and jump out. That was the closest they came to killing anyone. It was total surprise sex. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26818 (Crow) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26819 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26824 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26820 (Lach) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26821 (Scim) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26817 (Scim) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26822 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26823 (Scim) Not a single loss. Here's the interesting thing about this fight. They used the pull range and kite tactic, and their Scims were MWD fit. As the fight went on, and we clearly started to get the edge, they seemed to abandon their range advantage and double back to try and save the ships we primary. This lets almost our entire gang get on top of the Scims, who just hang out and die. As that last Scim popped, they still hadn't abandoned the fight. It was only once The Forsaken + Self Destruct jumped in that we broke off and got safe. If not for that interruption, I think we could have killed their entire gang. These guys are loving horrendous. Kulthu was money in his curse. He capped out all the bitches. So we get to a safe spot in 97X and wait to get intel on the size and comp of this Forsaken + Self Destruct gang that had so rudely interrupted our carnage. We know that they have over 20, which is more than enough to give our 15 man gang trouble. Dirtneck eventually makes his way into them and gives us the run down. They have roughly 23 people, no logi, some ECM, and it's a 'kitchen sink' fleet. Armor ships, Battle ships, shield ships. All sorts of disorganized retard. (Not unlike our old fleets) Their lack of logi means I do not afraid of anything, so we go for it. Meanwhile in the STIM channel, Brent tells me he's in JH with a 10 man Rote gang. He asks to join the fun and I figure why not. We pile into M2 and the fight is on. Their first primary is ihcn. He pops and losses MY hurricane that I had just lent him. We also lose Morganta in a cane. Other than that, it was some serious rear end kicking. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26831 (Cane) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26834 (Harb) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26832 (Brutix) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26839 (Harb) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26840 (Cane) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26833 (BB) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26838 (Thorax) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26841 (Cane) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26835 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26828 (Abbadon) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26829 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26836 (Broadsword) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26837 (Cane) They got absolutely crushed. Rote leaves the field after the last of them die and we spend the next few minutes looting up. I'm pretty sure that when Rote landed, Forsaken and Co. thought it was going to be a three way. Not so much. Hopefully they don't get discouraged and think that we've blued up with Rote and just run from us all the time. Regardless, kicking in their teeth was pretty great. Pretty much all the credit for our success last night is owed to out logi pilots. Mald, Tim, Buss and Aloe did an outstanding job across all of the fights. Mad props to my Scim homies. Three good engagements in one night.
for eurotz i am less sure... i know huzzah (who was one of the main euro presences) just died but i'm sure their members are around somewhere. (edit: maybe you could take over the pc9- cluster!)
I am also less sure (for good or for bad) about the solo-5man gang prospects of syndicate, as i don't do that but i know it's important to a lot of hatch members
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United States42776 Posts
On August 11 2011 14:56 Seros Kal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 10:58 Firebolt145 wrote:
Can you tell us about armored thoraxes? People keep saying they're good but I'm not convinced. I've also been told blackop ships are amazing in lots of situations, so which would you say is the best for us to train to (considering most of us are hurricane/drake/rifter pilots)? Could you also explain the strengths of the primae? I've read that it was given out as a special reward or something, but I can't see what's so special about it...
We're also contemplating a move to nullsec, any suggestions where? I've heard Delve has lots of money, is it hard to take sov? a) Armored thoraxes are cheap and do good amounts of dps and have a solid buffer if you fit a 1600mm plate + electron blaster iis. They're pretty damn effective but very suicidal. I mean suicidal because you're in their scramble/web range when you're engaging something. Once you decide to fight in this boat, you're pretty much committed to that engagement. Keep in mind there are lots of ships in the game now days that fit a cyno on them or have a 30 man blob behind the next gate so if you lose a thorax, it's no more than 15 million isk down the drain. Not a huge deal compared to losing a deimos (which imo is only useful as a sniper hac) b) Black Ops ships are amazing. We (0utbreak) use them ~a lot~. I would say train for some Mega Pulse IIs. Train for Garde IIs. Train for 800mm Repeating Artillery IIs. Not all three at the same time, ofc, but whatever race you want to fly. Abaddons with Scorch L are pretty sexy. c) Primae sucks and is a useless piece of shit. d) Syndicate was fun the last time I lived there. It's probably not the same as it once was, but a good learning environment. Stimulus (Rote Kapelle) will give you a hard time, but you will learn many things from those fights. Delve might be good as well with Morsus Mihi now in the area as well as I believe the region is still bugged when it comes to officer spawns (they appear far more often apparently).
How would you recommend killing a t1 battlecruiser? Is it always necessary to use a falcon or will an assortment of about 6 pirate cruisers and hacs work?
My corp isn't many times the size of many people we fight, would you recommend joining an alliance?
I group my highslots to better kill the primary but I'm worried I'm not getting on enough killmails. Should I ungroup them and tag everything (friendly included) as the fight starts or just use my drones to tag things while keeping my damage on the primary?
Many people in my corp don't fly widows. Can you explain this?
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Haha, and here i thought firebolts post was already too obvious when he started with the primae.
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United States42776 Posts
On August 11 2011 15:32 Antoine wrote:bro i told them to come to synd like a month ago, no dice synd owns! here's an aar of our op last night + Show Spoiler [syndicate #1 region in the game] +The goal for last night was to do a tour of the Syndicate hot spots and try to get a read on where folks stand during US prime. What ended up happening was something quite different. We head out just after 0100. Gang was two scims, a bubble, long point, 4 or 5 canes, couple intes. We check PC9 and it's empty. We check VV and it's only got a couple people in it. We send eyes to 97X/Y9G and there's only a couple Raven Fed in there. I turn us around for FD- and burn up there full speed. On the way a Flying Dangerous Omen derps into us. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26808 (Omen) The guys in F67E are @ 16 in local, but of course they just dock up and run to POS as soon as we are within two systems. We make it up as far as XB without any excitement, but then we get a report of a Rote gang in FD-. The rote scout is right ahead of us, so we yump in with everything except the Logi. Their scout pulls off a burn back and we pile in. They try to pull range on the gate, we rush in after them. They murder Kulthu before our logi has a chance to adjust. Then things start to go in our favor. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26807 (Harb) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26809 (Cane) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26810 (Stiletto) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26812 (Cane) We lose Morganta, but then we rally back to the gate. We bounce to the sun, eyes call that Rote is headed to XM. We rush to catch some stragglers and nab another cane. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26811 (Cane) We come out ahead in the fight trading two canes for Harb, Cane, Cane Stiletto. CP 1 Rote 0 We loot up and bounce back to check out PF- I send in Buss and he spots a Vaga on the gate with him. The guy jumps and cloaks. Not sure what his overall plan was, but he was super hosed. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26815 (Vaga) The folks who died spot a Handsome Millionaire Playboys gang in F67E. They outnumbered us both on Logi and on muscle. They try to bait us with a Lach, but then give up. We head back down the pipe trailing them. They double back and I just tell them outright in local that if they let us go home we will give them a fight. This seems to eventually soak in as they quickly get out of our way. They accidentally head us off in V4, but we get around them and re-ship. We pick up a couple late arivals and switch to a 4 Logi, all shield BC load out. Aloe trails them with dirtneck as far as M2. We go tearing after them and catch up with them in M2 on the 97X gate. As we land on the gate with them, they jump into 97X. They try the same thing Rote did. To pull range off the gate and kite. Here's the thing. Both Rote and HMP didn't have the long webs and long points to make that strategy work. Also we had a fuckload of canes, so it's not like we had any trouble keeping up. I was their first primary, They get me into structure before I make it back to the gate and jump out. That was the closest they came to killing anyone. It was total surprise sex. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26818 (Crow) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26819 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26824 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26820 (Lach) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26821 (Scim) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26817 (Scim) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26822 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26823 (Scim) Not a single loss. Here's the interesting thing about this fight. They used the pull range and kite tactic, and their Scims were MWD fit. As the fight went on, and we clearly started to get the edge, they seemed to abandon their range advantage and double back to try and save the ships we primary. This lets almost our entire gang get on top of the Scims, who just hang out and die. As that last Scim popped, they still hadn't abandoned the fight. It was only once The Forsaken + Self Destruct jumped in that we broke off and got safe. If not for that interruption, I think we could have killed their entire gang. These guys are loving horrendous. Kulthu was money in his curse. He capped out all the bitches. So we get to a safe spot in 97X and wait to get intel on the size and comp of this Forsaken + Self Destruct gang that had so rudely interrupted our carnage. We know that they have over 20, which is more than enough to give our 15 man gang trouble. Dirtneck eventually makes his way into them and gives us the run down. They have roughly 23 people, no logi, some ECM, and it's a 'kitchen sink' fleet. Armor ships, Battle ships, shield ships. All sorts of disorganized retard. (Not unlike our old fleets) Their lack of logi means I do not afraid of anything, so we go for it. Meanwhile in the STIM channel, Brent tells me he's in JH with a 10 man Rote gang. He asks to join the fun and I figure why not. We pile into M2 and the fight is on. Their first primary is ihcn. He pops and losses MY hurricane that I had just lent him. We also lose Morganta in a cane. Other than that, it was some serious rear end kicking. http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26831 (Cane) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26834 (Harb) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26832 (Brutix) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26839 (Harb) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26840 (Cane) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26833 (BB) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26838 (Thorax) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26841 (Cane) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26835 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26828 (Abbadon) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26829 (Drake) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26836 (Broadsword) http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26837 (Cane) They got absolutely crushed. Rote leaves the field after the last of them die and we spend the next few minutes looting up. I'm pretty sure that when Rote landed, Forsaken and Co. thought it was going to be a three way. Not so much. Hopefully they don't get discouraged and think that we've blued up with Rote and just run from us all the time. Regardless, kicking in their teeth was pretty great. Pretty much all the credit for our success last night is owed to out logi pilots. Mald, Tim, Buss and Aloe did an outstanding job across all of the fights. Mad props to my Scim homies. Three good engagements in one night. for eurotz i am less sure... i know huzzah (who was one of the main euro presences) just died but i'm sure their members are around somewhere. (edit: maybe you could take over the pc9- cluster!) I am also less sure (for good or for bad) about the solo-5man gang prospects of syndicate, as i don't do that but i know it's important to a lot of hatch members
Looking at the killmails I see a mix of canes and drakes. You guys obviously have skillpoints so I'm curious, why the canes? I'm finding that drakes simply have a higher output in anything but a brawl and against anything but antitackle. Your curse should be able to limit their ability to tackle you rendering the neuts of the canes redundant. Shield autocanes do less at range and have less tank up close, they do have their uses but they don't plug any hole in your fleet.
Also I looked at the hurricane you lost, it was fitting 425s, 2x LSE, no nano and SMLs instead of neuts. You said it was yours so maybe you can answer some questions I have. Given you said you had logi why are you using dual LSE over LSE invuln? Also why would you ever favour SMLs over the medium neuts on a cane? If you're in a fit that can't brawl especially well (no neuts, no invuln to amplify reps, base resists so paper thin) why no nano? The 10k rounds of ammo in the cargo hold were predominantly EM and barrage so clearly the intent was to be fighting vs shield tanked things and at range. That makes the decision not to fit a nano even more confusing as your ammo implies what you're really trying to do is nano, but without a nano. Also why are there 3 hammerhead2s in the drone bay. The cane has a 30m drone bay, if you train drones 5 you can use 4 hobgoblins and a hammerhead to get more dps.
Killmail for reference.
http://droog.rwpcomputers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26826
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I think the dual lse setup is reasonable because if your flying with 4 logis vs a large enough fleet, going full gank with enough buffer to survive being primaried until scimi reps hit you is a viable tactic. The small missile launchers can be explained by lack of fitting skills, but in my opinion with that large of a gang you could easily have gone arty canes and nanodrakes with scimi support and been able to get much more damage projection from your fleet.
Granted having a curse makes things alot easier for a full gank auto cane in terms of closing range but then we still have the ammo issue. You really really dont need that much ammo on a pvp ship and its not likely that youll burn through more than 5k rounds of ammo (I tend to use a 2k barrage 1k rf fusion/pp/emp setup) on a roam before either finishing it or getting blown up.
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United States7481 Posts
the cane wasnt mine, i copied the aar from our boards so it is in first person of the guy who wrote it.
as for canes over drakes there may be a good reason that i didnt bother to learn since im not skilled in that direction but i can tell you that a lot of people simply find them more fun to fly
for fits we were more worried about getting people in shield bcs than specifically fit for that fight bcs because we werent sure if that gang was going to stick around, so ships were traded and undocked in a hurry
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On August 11 2011 23:22 Viceorvirtue wrote:
I think the dual lse setup is reasonable because if your flying with 4 logis vs a large enough fleet, going full gank with enough buffer to survive being primaried until scimi reps hit you is a viable tactic. The small missile launchers can be explained by lack of fitting skills, but in my opinion with that large of a gang you could easily have gone arty canes and nanodrakes with scimi support and been able to get much more damage projection from your fleet.
Granted having a curse makes things alot easier for a full gank auto cane in terms of closing range but then we still have the ammo issue. You really really dont need that much ammo on a pvp ship and its not likely that youll burn through more than 5k rounds of ammo (I tend to use a 2k barrage 1k rf fusion/pp/emp setup) on a roam before either finishing it or getting blown up.
dual invul cane has roughly same ehp as double lse. The only downside is cap, thats why you dont see it that often. But if you know youre gonna fly with 4 logis(lol) screw lses.
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
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Netherlands19135 Posts
On August 12 2011 00:37 Firebolt145 wrote:
1x lse 1x invuln 4 lyfe
Don't listen to this guy, he wants to fly a vaga.
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
On August 12 2011 00:41 Nyovne wrote:Don't listen to this guy, he wants to fly a vaga.
Such a Kwark wannabe
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Just resist the urge to brawl at 0 if you are flying a vaga. The urge will be strong since you are so fast and your ship is obviously stronger than a battlecruiser or battleship since its T2.
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Netherlands19135 Posts
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On August 11 2011 20:05 KwarK wrote:
How would you recommend killing a t1 battlecruiser? Is it always necessary to use a falcon or will an assortment of about 6 pirate cruisers and hacs work?
My corp isn't many times the size of many people we fight, would you recommend joining an alliance?
I group my highslots to better kill the primary but I'm worried I'm not getting on enough killmails. Should I ungroup them and tag everything (friendly included) as the fight starts or just use my drones to tag things while keeping my damage on the primary?
Many people in my corp don't fly widows. Can you explain this?
a) I almost never use falcons unless I'm "solo" with a faction bs/marauder simply for the gtfo factor. You don't need falcons. Six cruisers will be more than enough for any t1 battlecruiser. A lot of it is range control. You generally want to be out of 15k range in anything quick. Brawler ships, of course, will need to be up close and personal (blaster boats, torp boats, etc).
http://kb.filthykillers.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=124022 is a fairly decent way to kill a drake. Pin them down in a belt, at a planet, or whatever and as soon as one of your ships gets to about 25% shields, align out then warp while the other guy keeps point. The drake simply won't do enough damage in the amount of time that it takes the one cruiser to come back and get second point. It's even easier to kill a hurricane for example because of the tracking disruptor(s) the curse will typically fit.
b) I've always been a fan of fighting outnumbered, outgunned, whatever, so I would personally do your own thing. If you want to join an alliance for access to 0.0, one of the NPC region alliances would be a good start. You probably don't want to join a larger alliance with sov in a good region because of all the damn CTAs (call to arms) and lagfests + blobs etc etc etc.
c) Don't worry about whoring onto killmails tbh. I'd be more worried about winning fights and figuring out how to counter an enemies gang or setting up traps with cloaking dictors/anchored bubbles. The killmails will come. Typically, you want all of your damage on the primary, but sometimes, it's a wise choice to put your guns on the primary then throw all of your drones (everyone in fleet) on a logi ship for example - or a falcon that might decloak next to you. The fc should dictate everything that the guys in fleet do which would include where to align to.
d) pfft widows suck. The other three black ops are all meant to be armor tanks (so you can do remote repping from the sins), they do quicker damage (don't wait for the missiles to arrive at their target which means shit dies faster), and don't rely on jamming. Eventually, you probably want to train for the panthers, sins, and redeemers.
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On August 12 2011 02:32 hugitout wrote:
Just resist the urge to brawl at 0 if you are flying a vaga. The urge will be strong since you are so fast and your ship is obviously stronger than a battlecruiser or battleship since its T2.
Vaga is crap anyways. You want to fly a cynabal if you want to fly a quick Minmatar cruiser. =]
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On August 12 2011 05:07 Warri wrote:
what kind of tags?
All of the tags.
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
Seros I feel bad now seeing as you are typing massive legitimate replies to us, but we're pretty much trolling you. All my questions were based on 'advice' we were given in the past by other random people who came in to 'help' us yet didn't have a clue what kind of corp we were. Thanks anyway for telling me exactly how useless the primae is. 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/evhie.png)
