EPTEVE Corporation - Page 577
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Weken
United Kingdom580 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34500 Posts
You've killed 9 ships with your 1 slicer. I have the better ratio. Why am I arguing this with you guys. | ||
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
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Weken
United Kingdom580 Posts
Also my slicer kills are mostly solo, your pest kills are mostly with fleet. (im not sure why were arguing either) Also 56 kills with harbingers and only 2 losses, i have the better ratio. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19189 Posts
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Weken
United Kingdom580 Posts
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
On May 25 2011 18:24 Weken wrote: I swear that Kwark's trading means that he is constantly borke and has no liquid money, that is why he also missions, or hes just a massive carebear. (tho most of his carebearing seams to be im gunna go to null sec in my snaked clone and do missions in my pvp drake, hoping that people will find me so i can kill them, whilst a new guy salvages it in hes salvaging destroyer. And Weken isnt allowed to come) Its called a liquidity trap, leimen brothers had a similar issue. I'm assuming his issue is thus. His money is tied into long term assets, meaning he typically buys as fast or faster than he can liquidate back into isk without destroying the market value of his products. He basically needs to diversify his portfolio to accommodate is isk exposure if he wants to increase the velocity in which he receives isk. Basically once you start trading at larger levels your income stops being asset sale price - asset cost and more about how much volume you can expect to move in a day. Think of it this way if im trading t2 gyros in small numbers I can happily think that the profit of my inventory is say 800k(asset sale price) - 600k(asset cost or acquisition price) = 200k (Profit). Seeing how im making 33% on each 600k i invest this may lead me to keep on making more and more gyros since every 600k i put in i get another 200k out. However as I increase production I run into the problem that say only 100 of these ever sell in a given day so I might delude myself into thinking that the hundreds i make a day are giving me 200k profit each but I could never hope to realize that level of profit at my current production. Instead I may be better off diverting production(or purchase acquisition) to say t2 tracking enhancers despite each only only giving me 100k profit each because I can actually increase my profit per day, eventually however as my isk exposure (how much im tying up in the market) increases ill once again have to expand my lineup and potentially go after more less profitable items. Granted I know kwark really isnt into the manufacturing side but its the same concept for lp items that im sure kwark is doing. Where leman brothers got into trouble was that when the financial disaster struck (say kwark were to lose a freighter full of crap or need more drakez) the only way they could come up with the liquid funds to give back to clients and pay for expenses was to liquidate long positions (investments or in kwarks case market items) at a discount at often at a loss so they never were able to truly catch up and realize the actually profitable business they were in but lost because they didnt have cash laying around to pay the bills. What prevented the other big investment groups from suffering the same fate was that the federal government bailed them out with large chunks of cash just as the corp and individuals lend money back to kwark for him to replace or reinvest. However since eve doesnt have trading insurance a-la fed funds to borrow kwark needs to always have enough liquidity to self insure potential losses from disasters and day to day losses such as drakes and implants and whatnot. | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
On May 25 2011 18:13 Warri wrote: I find it funny how kwark is the only one that is actually trading and not "trading" aka contract f5ing.  I would personally consider what Kwark is doing as acting more of a supplier/middleman not unlike me. Taking advantage of his liquidity to be able to buy up low costing items/materials and converting it into another item/material and pocketing the difference which is no different than what I did. Similarly to how I would buy Mach bpcs at 680 mil, spend 90 mil to make it and sell it for 820 mil (after taxes) and pocket the difference. Main difference is of course that Kwark has access to a freighter, people that are lazy to convert their own LP themselves, and better scalability. I would consider an actual trader like Akita T who was able to predict and watch market fluctuation and make investments base off this data, or the people that can predict how the mineral basket will settle over the long term (or T3 components <--really interested in this due to T3 BS possibility in upcoming expansions, and of course the whole PI fiasco that crashed nanite repair paste and was it robotics?). Simply putting up buy orders and reselling the items that you get is not overtly complex and while the concept is still "trading", it doesn't hold much weight. | ||
KwarK
United States43469 Posts
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KwarK
United States43469 Posts
I only really know Amarr tags because I don't know shit outside of my own investments but they're going crazy. I got into the market late, only about a month ago, but I was able to acquire quite a few tags which have appreciated somewhat. | ||
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DeepBlu2
United States975 Posts
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On May 26 2011 04:55 pahndah wrote: I would personally consider what Kwark is doing as acting more of a supplier/middleman not unlike me. Taking advantage of his liquidity to be able to buy up low costing items/materials and converting it into another item/material and pocketing the difference which is no different than what I did. Similarly to how I would buy Mach bpcs at 680 mil, spend 90 mil to make it and sell it for 820 mil (after taxes) and pocket the difference. Main difference is of course that Kwark has access to a freighter, people that are lazy to convert their own LP themselves, and better scalability. I would consider an actual trader like Akita T who was able to predict and watch market fluctuation and make investments base off this data, or the people that can predict how the mineral basket will settle over the long term (or T3 components <--really interested in this due to T3 BS possibility in upcoming expansions, and of course the whole PI fiasco that crashed nanite repair paste and was it robotics?). Simply putting up buy orders and reselling the items that you get is not overtly complex and while the concept is still "trading", it doesn't hold much weight. Sometimes kwark even manipulates the price on ammo! | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
On May 26 2011 04:55 pahndah wrote: I would personally consider what Kwark is doing as acting more of a supplier/middleman not unlike me. Taking advantage of his liquidity to be able to buy up low costing items/materials and converting it into another item/material and pocketing the difference which is no different than what I did. Similarly to how I would buy Mach bpcs at 680 mil, spend 90 mil to make it and sell it for 820 mil (after taxes) and pocket the difference. Main difference is of course that Kwark has access to a freighter, people that are lazy to convert their own LP themselves, and better scalability. I would consider an actual trader like Akita T who was able to predict and watch market fluctuation and make investments base off this data, or the people that can predict how the mineral basket will settle over the long term (or T3 components <--really interested in this due to T3 BS possibility in upcoming expansions, and of course the whole PI fiasco that crashed nanite repair paste and was it robotics?). Simply putting up buy orders and reselling the items that you get is not overtly complex and while the concept is still "trading", it doesn't hold much weight. Since your bringing up mineral baskets and Akita, its also important to note some key factors in his trading style. Minerals are the closest thing in eve to to real life stock market trading. This has to do with the actual volume amounts traded. Yes you can play the market and deal with trends on all sorts of other commodities in eve but only minerals allow you to put in some serious cash and regularly have shifts regardless of what may or may not be in the next patch notes. What also helps is the vast majority of mineral transactions happen at the hubs mainly jita. Ammo selling works a little different for example. Once produced ammo ends up in a market hub. From there some one purchases with with various levels of intent. First to transfer to a different hub, such as buying faction projectile ammo from rens and shifting it to jita for a profit. Secondly, large scale purchases to supply say an alliance in 0.0 or WH, or even long term planners to supply their alt for the next several weeks in various areas. Thirdly, to shift ammo to various places for people to grab ammo on the go where they may rather not fly all the way to a hub to finish shooting at folks. Finally, theres some speculation and market manipulation purchases but they arent the frequent sort. Minerals are different in that they are intended to be a bulk purchase either by an industrialist or a group of industrialist, the groups have less of an issue dealing with hauling to save a few bucks and arent as interested in buying small amounts that might be located slightly closer for higher cost. It also helps that most minerals are generated in highsec or are brought to highsec for sale and that 0.0 groups have issues being mineral self sufficient, the vast majority of minerals will always end up in a major hub during their lifetime. This is also why major conflicts even out in 0.0 can have huge affects on the mineral market. Since virtually everyone not only affects the mineral market but that the mineral market is so closely tied to small number of market places allow you to virtually throw far more money into it that you could say faction items or singular final production units. Lets say Trit is at 3.2, and then say over the course of some costly wars trit gets pushed up to 3.3, this is only a 3.125% increase which can be a far cry from even what you would expect just shifting ammo from rens to jita, however due to the huge size of the mineral market and its demand you can throw far more money at it than you could hope to with faction ammo. That being said its only truly worth it if you can throw those giant pools of money at it that would normally crush other markets. Another key benefit here is that because of its rather small number of markets and large volume of good and traders the price behaves much more like a traditional stock and being able to do traditional (real life)market analysis pays huge dividends. Disclosure: I might not be the most experienced of eve market traders but this is what I do in real life so forgive me if I dont do it for fake money as much as some people (i'd rather spend the time doing real analysis and making real money if I must), I like to think that these parallels are valid. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34500 Posts
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
Making money in eve is not hard, check market/contracts, find something cheap, resell... profit? Or look for someone desperate in local, low ball them, resell.... profit? Doing a lot of little things for a few million each is definitely not my style, although that can be more stable then how i do it. I probably should spend more time analyzing real life markets though >_< | ||
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Altaen
United States33 Posts
On May 25 2011 06:16 Firebolt145 wrote: We're having a debate about this in corp atm, one or two of our members claims they've done it, others say it's impossible. I personally have no idea. :D Okay, these are the rules: Unless your intended warp destination is on the same grid with the bubble, it will not pull you in. Your warp vector must pass through any part of the bubble in order for it to pull you in. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34500 Posts
On May 26 2011 05:58 Altaen wrote: Okay, these are the rules: Unless your intended warp destination is on the same grid with the bubble, it will not pull you in. Your warp vector must pass through any part of the bubble in order for it to pull you in. And on grid is within 500km, correct? ps. our application to EM was rejected, why didn't you stand up for us?  | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
On May 26 2011 05:57 Pufftrees wrote: Would you consider what I do , trading? Yea, I rely on f5n contracts for some income, but I often just buy expensive ships now and resell. For example, recently I purchased 2 tech2 purger rattles for under a billion, and sold them both for 1.25b. My trading alt started with 900m liquidity from an LP sale to kwark on my main, and now has 10 times that much and just turned 2 months in age. I don't ever bother with buy orders or other small things, but I'm going to make a scamming alt I think. Making money in eve is not hard, check market/contracts, find something cheap, resell... profit? Or look for someone desperate in local, low ball them, resell.... profit? Doing a lot of little things for a few million each is definitely not my style, although that can be more stable then how i do it. I probably should spend more time analyzing real life markets though >_< It is its just a smaller market on individual products. Youre buying then reselling which is what trading is all about. The Contract system works very well for these less in demand quantities because it helps tie the market together globally to pull in buyers and sellers, but just because its on contract doesnt mean its not trading. | ||
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Weken
United Kingdom580 Posts
On May 26 2011 05:56 Firebolt145 wrote: We're doing lvl4's as a corp (10 of us). We have a rifter tanking blockade with a scimi keeping him alive If i was there we could have done that with my slicer. And according to our KB, kwark has never, ever, ever killed anything when he isnt in his DRAEK, makes sence. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34500 Posts
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