well there are several stages to it, the best short rundown of it i can come up with is:
1. PL deploys to catch because content (provi, hero, stain, all active all valid targets for pl, all have at least some caps or large lobs to fight)
2. Hero fights when PL attacks
3. PL reinforces GE-8JV (Hero staging, basically centralizing like a lowsec alliance that always undocks in big numbers from one station to cause havoc, which is a terrible idea in nullsec when you don't actually have the power to prevent a headshot to said system and assets can get trapped)
now it gets complicated: - Hero panics: we need to evac because we could lose all our stuff if PL shows up to the final timer and actually tries to win - PL has stated that they are fueled by tears, and nothing causes more tears than a bungled evacuation or even the loss of assets behind enemy lines - Hero leadership got a deal with PL that if they still form up for timers, PL will not win the final timer of stations.
the thing is: most of those in leadership who knew of this deal (and that were not many people) trusted this deal, but did not make this deal public
so other people in positions of power, and all line members paniced about the possible loss of stations/assets/etc (because they could not know about the deal, and to only way to test the deal was to risk everything and gain nothing)
the result was: Lquid called a full evac, someone (i think it is still not public who) chanceled the deal with PL from Hero side so that PL showed up to final station timers and won them handily...
now why did this cause a leadership crisis: Lychton failed miserably in communication, for instance i am not leadership but have corp roles in BNI, but i never heard any fucking word from the man about anything. not through corp/alliance mails, nor any other suitable mode of communication. everything he did looked like a drunk run down dad sitting in a burning house telling his children that were already catching on fire that all will be fine soon.... - nobody ever heard about the PL wont take our stuff deal - nobody had any reason to blindly assume or trust that such a deal would be in place as PL has stated they are there for tears, and headshotting our systems even if we show up was a real possibility to everyone who had assets in those stations
so the ceos of corps in Brave Coalition used the executor corp decision mechanic to vote for a new executor corp, and reinstated new leadership
not everything is sunshine and rainbows now, but for me there are vast improvements: i had the chance to talk to malanek at least 3 times since the leadership crisis even though he is actually busy with the stuff he actually made an effort to explain plans and decisions, so that we had a chance to follow them and to build trust between us and them.
lychton on the other hand just rested on his merits from years ago, and just came on a couple of times a week to drunk yell at his middle management that they had made decisions in his absence or without fully informing him, when he showed no effort to actually keep in touch and up to date with things happening
TL,DR: everyone fucked up, nobody communicated, everyone worked on his own assumptions, and if those assumptions would have been true their actions would have had at least a bit of merit.
p.s. there was also a second important perspective on that: PL wanted to recruit and work together with BC, that deal was also not communicated at all, and was contingent upon us not leaving catch, so we bungled that aswell.. i guess about 10-20% of us actually wanted to go with PL and if they had worked with us better (especially in the communication department) there would have even been a solid majority among the line members for such a deal
(from my perspective bluemajere did a horrific job if PL actually wanted us, because he called every BNI person he talked to, fucking stupid in every communication i saw)
Like Brave is a massive clusterfuck of drama and self destruction atm. No one is looking god except Test, Karma Fleet and Pandemic Chode who are raking in the actives. I'm plugged into the drama surprisingly well, and theres more stupid still to come. Confirming just want to shoot stuff, but got out when I saw the beginnings for this coming.
You're in TEST now, right? They seem to carry the same spirit BRAVE had/has.
KF/PH aren't really options for me tbh, I don't care about that "elite pvp thing" and I also don't support any of that shady stuff around those goonswarm guys.
You're in TEST now, right? They seem to carry the same spirit BRAVE had/has.
KF/PH aren't really options for me tbh, I don't care about that "elite pvp thing" and I also don't support any of that shady stuff around those goonswarm guys.
if you dont mind me sharing: i liked to fly with test dudes, but i hated the general attitude and shitstormyness... where brave cares to little or is on the goofy side of things, the test that i witnessed was trapped in this cynical cycle of bitterposting and kicking other people around as stupid, after they call out other old alliances on exactly that behaviour.
i know this is not representative, but i saw to much of it to ever consider joining them.
I think some of that happened with Brave as well, though. Feels like leadership is having an identity crisis whether to be more efficient and focus on getting better and better or still be the old "just throw Atrons at them that'll do"-kind of alliance.
I'm by no means an expert, I mean I'm still super low in SP and suck in PvP. So my opinion on these things is worthless, but I had a blast in Brave so far(wouldn't even play if it weren't for them) so it'd be really shitty if this all went down.
All right I've got a spy in brave middle management, I'm blowing this shit up. I leaked the open to the public google doc that they were writing the address to brave and lychton in, and I just dropped logs proving that the C O U P B O I S straight up lied to corp ceos to get votes. More to come. And Test operates under don't be a dick as opposed to stay classy, meaning if you see that stuff from them to a blue, much less a alliance mate, tell a diplo. Or me, I'll haze as needed. Also I have multiple reddit accounts because I forget passwords and fuck up cathcpas.
I hope they don't see through the double bluff and realize I actually fucked up the first time so now I'm just naming my real spy.
On April 09 2015 06:57 Jaaaaasper wrote: All right I've got a spy in brave middle management, I'm blowing this shit up. I leaked the open to the public google doc that they were writing the address to brave and lychton in, and I just dropped logs proving that the C O U P B O I S straight up lied to corp ceos to get votes. More to come. And Test operates under don't be a dick as opposed to stay classy, meaning if you see that stuff from them to a blue, much less a alliance mate, tell a diplo. Or me, I'll haze as needed. Also I have multiple reddit accounts because I forget passwords and fuck up cathcpas.
I hope they don't see through the double bluff and realize I actually fucked up the first time so now I'm just naming my real spy.
are you serious? reddit is full of test people telling brave people they are stupid with the two most used varieties: either we are all sheeple with no clue about anything following nefarious leaders into our doom or everyone in leadership should have just listened to that one test guy who clearly had it all figured out from the start and were just to stupid to see his brilliance
both do not further the "don't be dicks"-rule of engagement in any way.
On April 09 2015 06:57 Jaaaaasper wrote: All right I've got a spy in brave middle management, I'm blowing this shit up. I leaked the open to the public google doc that they were writing the address to brave and lychton in, and I just dropped logs proving that the C O U P B O I S straight up lied to corp ceos to get votes. More to come. And Test operates under don't be a dick as opposed to stay classy, meaning if you see that stuff from them to a blue, much less a alliance mate, tell a diplo. Or me, I'll haze as needed. Also I have multiple reddit accounts because I forget passwords and fuck up cathcpas.
I hope they don't see through the double bluff and realize I actually fucked up the first time so now I'm just naming my real spy.
are you serious? reddit is full of test people telling brave people they are stupid with the two most used varieties: either we are all sheeple with no clue about anything following nefarious leaders into our doom or everyone in leadership should have just listened to that one test guy who clearly had it all figured out from the start and were just to stupid to see his brilliance
both do not further the "don't be dicks"-rule of engagement in any way.
Hi testie actively shit posting. We're pretty mad about that coup, becuase it was shady as fuck. Most of its not meant as a personal attack, but tempers are high and you guys aren't blue. I feel kind of bad about some of it to be honest.
I have no idea what you're talking about. At all. I'm not used to any EVE politics apart from the stuff I read on reddit/see ingame.
Care to elaborate for a newb? I used to fly with TEST guys a lot when they were in HERO btw, never once I had someone being a dick. Thats why I said they seem to carry the same spirit essentially.
Ok i think we were talking a bit past each other and i apologize for that. My understanding of your post was unclear, and i should have put more effort into framing my question to clarify it for me. I did not mean to shitpost. I was very unsatisfied with Lychton before this coup, because he was invisible for the hardest time of the alliance. He did not craft a vision for brave and tell us that. That is why i was happy when i came home and saw that there was a coup going on with some people i consider more competent at actually doing stuff at an alliance level.
This was never a question about "shady" or not, because the possible benefits outweigh the means it was done with. After all it is about internet spaceships, and a guy that never actually leads his alliance will be desposed when the alliance is under so much pressure that it cracks at every level.
@Keks that is my sentiment aswell: they are fun to fly with but they are still an old alliance that went through very rough spacepolitics waters, and therefore bring some vitriol to some forums that can be discouraging, they even made it their funny snarky recruitment call that they have poisonous leadership
On April 09 2015 07:15 KeksX wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about. At all. I'm not used to any EVE politics apart from the stuff I read on reddit/see ingame.
Care to elaborate for a newb? I used to fly with TEST guys a lot when they were in HERO btw, never once I had someone being a dick. Thats why I said they seem to carry the same spirit essentially.
Yeah this is drama not politics atm, and I have my title as best poster on reddit to defend. But tl;dr shady coup using terrible in game mechacs happened, people are shocked and mad, TEST is not okay with is and accelerating the resetting of brave, tons of people are leaving brave over the drama plus loss of catch. Most people aren't going to be dicks on fleets, theres 30 days of being in brave will get you into dreddit with no vouch or reddit posting reqs, so spend some more time in brave before you do any thing else. Pls therabois is always recruiting.
On April 09 2015 07:18 puerk wrote: Ok i think we were talking a bit past each other and i apologize for that. My understanding of your post was unclear, and i should have put more effort into framing my question to clarify it for me. I did not mean to shitpost. I was very unsatisfied with Lychton before this coup, because he was invisible for the hardest time of the alliance. He did not craft a vision for brave and tell us that. That is why i was happy when i came home and saw that there was a coup going on with some people i consider more competent at actually doing stuff at an alliance level.
This was never a question about "shady" or not, because the possible benefits outweigh the means it was done with. After all it is about internet spaceships, and a guy that never actually leads his alliance will be desposed when the alliance is under so much pressure that it cracks at every level.
The thing is that he was a lot more active than people think, but middle management was actively sabotaging him to make him appear less active and less effective. He wasn't perfect, but he was better than what brave has now.
Okay honest question(well answer as honest as you can as a TEST guy): I'm a guy that plays EVE as a side thing, i.e. weekends and when I'm done laddering in SC2. I showed up for all the timers in HERO whenever I could(like 3 hours before work lol) so I'm a newb but dedicated when I play, but I really just want to shoot stuff in the end.
Would TEST be something for me? Or should I wait & hope that Brave "resets" like you said and gets ... well "back to their roots"?
To explain my point a little further: I joined back when Brave was in Barleguet, but I stopped playing after 2 months due to RL stuff. I'm playing since december now and sitting at like 5 million SP. Thats how newbish I still am.
On April 09 2015 07:26 KeksX wrote: Okay honest question(well answer as honest as you can as a TEST guy): I'm a guy that plays EVE as a side thing, i.e. weekends and when I'm done laddering in SC2. I showed up for all the timers in HERO whenever I could(like 3 hours before work lol) so I'm a newb but dedicated when I play, but I really just want to shoot stuff in the end.
Would TEST be something for me? Or should I wait & hope that Brave "resets" like you said and gets ... well "back to their roots"?
Like test and brave and most of null is fine for casual players. If anyone is running a red pen cta they'll lose members fast.
Yeah test is at least as newbro friendly as brave is. You'll be fine if you can take the occasionally annoying culture.
On April 09 2015 07:18 puerk wrote: Ok i think we were talking a bit past each other and i apologize for that. My understanding of your post was unclear, and i should have put more effort into framing my question to clarify it for me. I did not mean to shitpost. I was very unsatisfied with Lychton before this coup, because he was invisible for the hardest time of the alliance. He did not craft a vision for brave and tell us that. That is why i was happy when i came home and saw that there was a coup going on with some people i consider more competent at actually doing stuff at an alliance level.
This was never a question about "shady" or not, because the possible benefits outweigh the means it was done with. After all it is about internet spaceships, and a guy that never actually leads his alliance will be desposed when the alliance is under so much pressure that it cracks at every level.
The thing is that he was a lot more active than people think, but middle management was actively sabotaging him to make him appear less active and less effective. He wasn't perfect, but he was better than what brave has now.
I dont say he was not active, i say he was not visible. I am not sure but i think i remember one pandemic legion redditor saying that a person so incompetent about leading an alliance, that his "middle management" can make him appear nonexistent, deserves to lose it, and i share that sentiment, even though i do not currently see the middle management as a reason why lychton was not visible. Because talking in alliance chat is actually pretty easy to do. The coupbois found time for that, lychton did not, what does that tell you?
On April 09 2015 07:18 puerk wrote: Ok i think we were talking a bit past each other and i apologize for that. My understanding of your post was unclear, and i should have put more effort into framing my question to clarify it for me. I did not mean to shitpost. I was very unsatisfied with Lychton before this coup, because he was invisible for the hardest time of the alliance. He did not craft a vision for brave and tell us that. That is why i was happy when i came home and saw that there was a coup going on with some people i consider more competent at actually doing stuff at an alliance level.
This was never a question about "shady" or not, because the possible benefits outweigh the means it was done with. After all it is about internet spaceships, and a guy that never actually leads his alliance will be desposed when the alliance is under so much pressure that it cracks at every level.
The thing is that he was a lot more active than people think, but middle management was actively sabotaging him to make him appear less active and less effective. He wasn't perfect, but he was better than what brave has now.
I dont say he was not active, i say he was not visible. I am not sure but i think i remember one pandemic legion redditor saying that a person so incompetent about leading an alliance, that his "middle management" can make him appear nonexistent, deserves to lose it, and i share that sentiment, even though i do not currently see the middle management as a reason why lychton was not visible. Because talking in alliance chat is actually pretty easy to do. The coupbois found time for that, lychton did not, what does that tell you?
The biggest problem is that Lychton was mega burned out but couldn't trust anyone to hand over stuff too. Hes been looking for a replacement he can trust since sendaya, and never found it. I'm not saying hes perfect, and hes too nice, because he didn't crush this middle management crap when he could have, but even if I couldn't trust his competency, I could trust his intent, and I can't trust either from the new management.
Also without knowing all the details, the main thing that seems off to me is that not everyone was involved and some bigger names are still supporting Lychton, and the fact that it was all done over night is pretty damn shady to me. Combine that with the Apathy incident and I think that we have some "srs bzns" people ...
think I will stick around in BNI for a bit and see how it plays out before I make a decision on leaving though, who knows maybe we go full lowsec corp again or something.
On April 09 2015 07:40 KeksX wrote: Uh.. What is a red pen CTA?
Also without knowing all the details, the main thing that seems off to me is that not everyone was involved and some bigger names are still supporting Lychton, and the fact that it was all done over night is pretty damn shady to me.
think I will stick around in BNI for a bit and see how it plays out before I make a decision on leaving though, who knows maybe we go full lowsec corp again or something.
Red pen cta is a mostly mythical thing were for a major fight the leadership has a check list of everyone in the corp or alliance, and if some of them don't show up, they get a red mark and get kicked. But yeah do whats fun for you, thats what actually matters.
On April 09 2015 07:40 KeksX wrote: Uh.. What is a red pen CTA?
Also without knowing all the details, the main thing that seems off to me is that not everyone was involved and some bigger names are still supporting Lychton, and the fact that it was all done over night is pretty damn shady to me.
think I will stick around in BNI for a bit and see how it plays out before I make a decision on leaving though, who knows maybe we go full lowsec corp again or something.
Red pen cta is a mostly mythical thing were for a major fight the leadership has a check list of everyone in the corp or alliance, and if some of them don't show up, they get a red mark and get kicked.
Oh I see. So basically you're saying TEST is cool with members not showing up for every fight?
On April 09 2015 07:40 KeksX wrote: Uh.. What is a red pen CTA?
Also without knowing all the details, the main thing that seems off to me is that not everyone was involved and some bigger names are still supporting Lychton, and the fact that it was all done over night is pretty damn shady to me.
think I will stick around in BNI for a bit and see how it plays out before I make a decision on leaving though, who knows maybe we go full lowsec corp again or something.
Red pen cta is a mostly mythical thing were for a major fight the leadership has a check list of everyone in the corp or alliance, and if some of them don't show up, they get a red mark and get kicked.
Oh I see. So basically you're saying TEST is cool with members not showing up for every fight?
most alliances can't enforce such discipline let alone survive if they would really try
EPT
I used to fly with TEST guys a lot when they were in HERO btw, never once I had someone being a dick. Thats why I said they seem to carry the same spirit essentially.
