EVE Corporation - Page 1624

On August 03 2013 10:08 Reborn8u wrote:

I've been in many a' 1v1 fight with linked hookbils, (FW plexes) that were completely unwinnable. [e.g. linked hookbill]

Maybe some other kind of indicator that shows either someone is giving links or receiving links. At least then I can make a decision not to engage.

As it is right now, blobs, logi and ewar are stupid and overpowered imo, so if you want to fight outnumbered, you have to have links.

Maybe just scaling back the actual amount of bonus they provide would do it, I don't know. I wish logi, links, and ewar were weaker. I realize many on TL would not agree with this, but I feel like it does make enjoying the game difficult for many people who like to run 1 account and solo or just fly around with 2 or 3 friends. The truth is, because of how sp, blobs, ewar, and links work, I really feel like very little of eve combat has anything to do with actual piloting talent. Obviously, I don't agree with the people who want to sit at 0 and F1. I just feel there needs to be more room for good pilots to win fights, because they are good pilots.

Certainly. I can appreciate fitting, decision making, and ship control as being areas of talent. However, these things are massively overshadowed in eve. If you are fighting massively outnumbered, using links to make the fight possible, than cool. But the vast majority of the time, they are just used to (like so many other things in eve) to remove any risk of losing the fight. The same reason that people use ewar, logi, and blobs.

I think all these things need to be scaled back. Many of the people saying that links need to stay as they are, should realize that they just want to win with as little risk as possible.

On August 03 2013 10:21 Viceorvirtue wrote:
I feel your problem isnt with links in that specific situation, its with damps. Your best bet is to be flying something with light missiles and a good tank and just respond with fofs. A breacher with masb might do it I honestly have no idea though. Not sure wether you were upset because you couldnt secure a kill or that you couldnt fight back because you were damped. Lml condor or kestrel likely wouldve been fine as well. But had you not been damped, would you have had a problem with the fight?

On August 03 2013 10:24 Reborn8u wrote:
Evemon and EFT are basically mandatory. EFT is a lot of fun for many reasons, you can find fits you want to train for, or work out tight fittings (grid/cpu) and if you hover over the red bar it gives you a list of skills you need for that fit. You have to get your api keys into both programs, but once you get that done, they update the character stats by themselves. Evemon just makes skillplans, and you can put in implant amounts and organize the plan for remaps to reduce total train time. Many players use spreadsheets for pi/trading/industry ect.

Those are the basic ones, I'm sure there are many other good ones out there, but that's all I use.

On August 03 2013 10:49 Viceorvirtue wrote:
I think the reason people immediately use the 'it lets you fight outnumbered' is because unlike things such as the pocket falcon, it really does let you fight blobs. Links open your engagement profile a lot and their effect isnt linerally (think logi) or inversly (think ecm) proporitonate to your fleet size or the opponents fleet size. Remember theres everything from instalocking t3 camps to sabre/falcon camps to hotdropping out there and so much more.

Some would argue that links do more harm (links vs solo) than good (allowing you to engage things you normally couldnt fight at all) but realise that they do no more harm than any of the above. Personally its the fact that they alow more shiptypes to actually do interesting thing that I think the benefits surpass the negatives. Fix the above and you can remove links from the game and actually make it fairly balanced imo. But trying to nerf and remove links without first fixing these things is only going to hurt solo and small gang more based solely on engagement profile.

I dont believe that numbers should have so much of an impact in the outcome of a fight but realistically CCP will never go along with that line of thinking because the majority of players are blobbers. Catering to them to an extent is logical and pragmatically its difficult to see why solo/small gang would be catered to much just because proportionally its just not really a large enough segment of the population to care about.

On August 03 2013 11:03 Reborn8u wrote:


I can agree with this. I just felt like people were being a little to black and white with the issue and the discussion. All of these things are bad, but you can't get rid of one without fixing the other. I think we would all prefer they all get fixed.

Unfortunately, the people making the balance changes at ccp have shown over and over that they don't play enough eve to have any clue what they are doing or if the goal they are trying to achieve with a ship makes any sense whatsoever. The new Caracal navi issue is the perfect example. This ship is fast agile, and not very tanky, let's change it's range bonus's for dmg bonus's so it is better suited to being a brawler, because that makes sense.....

Their is way too much emphasis on brawling from the designers. So many ships that do the same damn thing only slightly worse than something else, or less cost effectively. So that something else never sees the light of day. They have really watered down the distinction in the races, and are doing their best to remove piloting skill from the game.

The thing that stands out to me is that the way to emphasize brawling is to buff the shit out of armor - which is not happening. I think it'd be cool to be able to do things besides camp undocks with armor ships.

On August 03 2013 14:05 DiracMonopole wrote:


You can. Nano armor bs are a thing now, and faction cruisers are super fast even with plate.

http://hydra.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=18983906

On August 03 2013 10:40 Reborn8u wrote:


I do have a problem with my viable list of ships and weapon systems being reduced that much. Armor links with logi is just as retarded though. Believe me it's not the only situation where links are the same as an I win button, it's just the most common one I run into. Eve is full of bullshit I win buttons, Hotdrops anyone? Really poor game design. I was just making the point that a lot of people are hypocrites. They bash ecm/logi/blobs but they don't undock without links for the same reason people resort to those things, and then try to act like they are just so talented.

I mean a lot of people are of the mindset that you can't actually solo without links. I do it all the time, I just die more often. They are just more risk adverse than me (and probably slightly better pilots XD ) The one thing that I will say is a massive limiting factor is point range. I out play many people, but can't finish the kill just because it becomes too dangerous to stay in point range. I'd like to see a big reduction in the bonus from links and an increase to the base range of the mod. (In this way I TOTALLY understand why people use skirmish links.)

Seriously though, every time I hear people say "you can't solo without links" what I hear is "I am risk adverse, I'm not as good as I pretend to be, and I'm no better than the people I talk bad about for using ecm/logi/blobs". Because they act the same exact way just replace the word "links" with ecm, logi, or numbers.

Having been in corps and on comms with all of these types of groups. It's really funny how similar they are in their thinking, and how much each bashes the other. All hypocrites. The people who call you "nanofag" are doing the same thing you do when you talk about ecm/logi/blob.


I guess I'm just tired of the smug from people who think it is an accomplishment to win a card game with a loaded deck, and then quickly trash talk the people who load the deck in another way. All of these things are horrible game design.

Edit: and as for Def's post above. I very much agree. It would really fuck up the current balance if they just massively nerfed or removed links.

I run into a lot of hookbill and various other linked "solo" pvprs who are setup to get free kills. FW space is full of them. They just run from any outnumbered fight where they could die if they don't fly well. There are actually very few people in my experience who actually use links to fight outnumbered and rely on actual talent. Hatchery is a very rare thing in eve.

On August 03 2013 14:07 DefMatrixUltra wrote:


What are the advantages over a typical shield fleet, though? There is little practical difference in things like signature etc., but you still have to deal with the tradeoff of speed, agility, raw damage.

I wish you guys would stop telling the "newbie is useful from day one" phrase over and over again as that only applies if you are part of a small gang. A new guy reads all these amazing tales of bravery and success, then he comes to eve starts learning stuff thinking that in a month or two he will be crushing 1vMany all the time only to realize half a year later that for that to happen you actually need to have a character with almost maxes skills and links.