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On June 13 2013 04:10 Shootemup. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:49 KwarK wrote:
On the one hand I feel we have a very verbally aggressive manner towards fuckups but on the other, we won't ostracise someone just for being bad. I know I'm pretty much the root of our "just get it right, every time" attitude to pvp but equally that attitude got us to the point where we did get it right most of the time which was pretty awesome. I can actually think of a couple. There was that noob who lost his Caracal to the gate camp in Aunenen, amongst other things. You kicked him from corp if I remember right. You also kicked that one guy with the three launcher 100mn HML Tengu he lost to a gatecamp. Sure those guys tried to argue they weren't bad and wouldn't listen to anyone, but basically they were kicked for being bad. I guess it is just my opinion, but I feel that since we are all playing this game to have fun we could be a little nicer to each other.
Kicking people from corp is based on an acknowledgement that they don't belong in the culture. If those people hadn't been trying to join the corp and go along with the corp's way of doing things, nothing would have happened to them - quite different situations.
You come back to the "it's a game and games are for fun" idea. Hatchery's idea of fun comes with a system tacked onto it. Those who wanted to be part of the corp implicitly agreed that the fun was enhanced if the ideas behind that system were followed.
There are two semantical meanings of bad here. There is "inexperienced" meaning your badness stems from simple ignorance and/or inability to apply your knowledge. Then there is "bad" meaning your badness stems from willful ignorance or inability to acknowledge and learn from mistakes. The second kind of person simply does not belong in Hatchery, but the first kind of person we took on all the time - no contradiction.
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On June 13 2013 04:23 DefMatrixUltra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 04:10 Shootemup. wrote:On June 13 2013 02:49 KwarK wrote:
On the one hand I feel we have a very verbally aggressive manner towards fuckups but on the other, we won't ostracise someone just for being bad. I know I'm pretty much the root of our "just get it right, every time" attitude to pvp but equally that attitude got us to the point where we did get it right most of the time which was pretty awesome. I can actually think of a couple. There was that noob who lost his Caracal to the gate camp in Aunenen, amongst other things. You kicked him from corp if I remember right. You also kicked that one guy with the three launcher 100mn HML Tengu he lost to a gatecamp. Sure those guys tried to argue they weren't bad and wouldn't listen to anyone, but basically they were kicked for being bad. I guess it is just my opinion, but I feel that since we are all playing this game to have fun we could be a little nicer to each other. Kicking people from corp is based on an acknowledgement that they don't belong in the culture. If those people hadn't been trying to join the corp and go along with the corp's way of doing things, nothing would have happened to them - quite different situations. You come back to the "it's a game and games are for fun" idea. Hatchery's idea of fun comes with a system tacked onto it. Those who wanted to be part of the corp implicitly agreed that the fun was enhanced if the ideas behind that system were followed. There are two semantical meanings of bad here. There is "inexperienced" meaning your badness stems from simple ignorance and/or inability to apply your knowledge. Then there is "bad" meaning your badness stems from willful ignorance or inability to acknowledge and learn from mistakes. The second kind of person simply does not belong in Hatchery, but the first kind of person we took on all the time - no contradiction.
I agree that one of the strengths of Hatchery was how much effort we put into being good at what we did, but at the same time I feel that occasionally people focused more on criticizing instead of teaching people how to be good. When you talk to someone in a confrontational manner, it is much more likely to put them on the defensive which can cause them to defend bad actions they might not otherwise.
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Kingdom of Oddelulf welcomes all of you mostlyafkwannabegoodbutganknoobsinstead guys for (mostly) pointless no undocking action.
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On June 13 2013 04:46 Ueberlisk wrote:
Kingdom of Oddelulf welcomes all of you mostlyafkwannabegoodbutganknoobsinstead guys for (mostly) pointless no undocking action.
I do that in Saranen!
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Tried to log in and jc to delve. No luck, jita was full.
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On June 13 2013 04:10 Shootemup. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:49 KwarK wrote:
On the one hand I feel we have a very verbally aggressive manner towards fuckups but on the other, we won't ostracise someone just for being bad. I know I'm pretty much the root of our "just get it right, every time" attitude to pvp but equally that attitude got us to the point where we did get it right most of the time which was pretty awesome. I can actually think of a couple. There was that new guy who lost his Caracal to the gate camp in Aunenen, amongst other things. You kicked him from corp if I remember right. You also kicked Ayorani when he when he lost his horrible three launcher Tengu to a gate camp. Sure those guys tried to argue they weren't bad and wouldn't listen to anyone, but basically they were kicked for being bad. I guess it is just my opinion, but I feel that since we are all playing this game to have fun we could be a little nicer to each other.
No, I kicked ayorani because he took advice of some random guy to fit small armor reps and an ab to his podla drake, instead of listening to us
Sorry, I was wrong: http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13526540 was the drake
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I don't have a problem with fleet discipline, or occasional telling people to shut up when they are interfering with an op by relaying useless info. As I said I just don't like being insulted nor hearing others be insulted. I think everyone gets mad or feels some emotion due to gaming, it's part of being human. I don't care so much about what happens in game, but how people talk to each other is different, it's not part of the game. Someone can talk me down for getting mad about these things, but if the FC wasn't mad, he wouldn't be talking to people like that in the first place. Besides, I don't know anyone how doesn't feel some emotions while playing games (other than innovation lol)
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Those were years ago and kwark has mellowed out considerably since then. Perhaps calanthe's effect?
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On June 13 2013 07:14 Firebolt145 wrote:
Those were years ago and kwark has mellowed out considerably since then. Perhaps calanthe's effect?
I can agree that Kwark isn't as harsh as he was a year ago. My comments were mostly in response to Chessur saying how being chill isn't an option and that it was going to be ball busting PvPing in Delve.
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Back to the tengu toilet?
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United States44393 Posts
If you guys will follow me there, sure.
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I'm up for heading to Delve. I've still got a bunch of ships down in that little pocket we were in before, so are we planning on moving back there? It was a very nice area lol.
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Russian Federation3632 Posts
On June 13 2013 04:46 Ueberlisk wrote:
Kingdom of Oddelulf welcomes all of you mostlyafkwannabegoodbutganknoobsinstead guys for (mostly) pointless no undocking action.
harsh words m8
i even killed two enyos when having forgotten to turn my links on ggggg ("10 km web what is this dogshit fuck fuck fuck fuck scrammed"). luckily their talos had to burn like 80 km to get into damage range on me so I could get out rather easily in armor
also, I already blew up my YZ9 (delve) jump clone, sup.
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You said it in your own post why they got kicked
On June 13 2013 04:10 Shootemup. wrote:
Sure those guys tried to argue they weren't bad and wouldn't listen to anyone,
that sounds like a good reason to kick someone from the corp, whether they are a good player or not. I was in the hatchery and was really bad at PVP (at that time I had fought maybe 7 or 8 people/groups in lowsec) but I never got chewed out for being a noob or bad. You'd get your ass yelled at if you did something retarded though, and that's what made the hatchery as good as they were.
edit: Man I'm always one page behind, stupid phone
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On June 13 2013 07:52 KwarK wrote:
If you guys will follow me there, sure.
my body is ready
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II was even worse when I came into hatch. I was bad from learning the game bad. I got yelled at so much that I had nightmares from it. But now I'm able to follow orders and do a little pvp here and there with ships that are shitfit.
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I was in TS for the Caracal guy getting kicked. He refused to acknowledge that he was shitfit and did something incredibly stupid (jump into Aunenen unscouted in a shitfit ship), insisted that it was fine, and told us we were ignorant when we tried to explain how not to die in low sec (it's not hard).
You could pretty easily tell it wasn't a good fit.
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United States44393 Posts
I propose FWST-8 II - Blood Raiders Logistic Support
Planned doctrines atm are amarr victor with a hint of caracal. TDs, damps and huginns also welcome.
Alternatively we can go A-SJ8X VII - Moon 1 - Intaki Syndicate Bureau which is just preying on the goon deployment. We'd bring links, covops cynos and blops.
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United States44393 Posts
Nevermind, we'll do A-S. I'll come up with some doctrines and we can all join my random corp on penguins.
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United States44393 Posts
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EPT
