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On April 09 2013 22:20 Reborn8u wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 09 2013 21:31 Johnny Business wrote:1.) Sort Dragon (HBC) 2.) Sala Cameron (HBC) 3.) Banlish (HBC) 4.) Mynnna (CFC) 5.) Kesper North (CFC) 6.) Kaleb Rysode (CFC) 7.) Awol Aurix (HBC) 8.) Artctura (CFC) 9.) Malcanis (HBC) 10.) Unforgiven Storm (CFC) 11.) DaeHan Minhyok 12.) Mangala Solaris (RvB) 13.) Travis Musgrat (N3) 14.) progodlegend (N3) Not abusing vote system. I voted for everyone NOT from Null. Saying they have been over-represented is an understatement. All these devs and CSM's from blob culture, and we wonder why solo/small/nano gang is getting nerfed in favor of making every ship a viable brawler. Why should the smaller group ever win, "eve is a game of numbers" why should skill decide a fight, amiright? I have a new doctrine, the oversized AB doctrine. 100mn Mallers, faction cruisers, t3's and 10mn coercers supported by sig tanked scimi's, nanophoons, ewar frigs, and standard tacklers. It's the future of "nano" guys O.o except we will replace the nano's with overdrives. We could also mix in a few MJD BS's, and make use of the ecm bursts. Nothing can stop us now, because almost nothing can actually stop us, or even hit us for that matter. Harari, Firebolt,Tofu, Vov, Kwark, and myself are working out the exact fits now, stay tuned!
Is this some kind of inside joke I'm not privy to? I require links to the sprelevant information.
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10mn coercer used to be the shit. Now it doesn't work properly, it really needed that 4th low 
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I don't play EVE but enjoy reading about it. This is something that I thought you guys might be interested in.
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On April 09 2013 16:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
I really can't believe they nerfed the Rokh. If you want to nerf a system-wide effect out of principle, that's fine. But going around knocking ships that are barely used is part of what's wrong with EVE balance as a whole. Why would anyone use this ship over a Naga, even in its current iteration?
rokhs are one of the most common null sec doctrines
http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=top20
look at top kills by ship, rokh is almost double second place
edit for ehp, which is far more important than agility in a fleet battle at typical naga/rokh engagement ranges. like you said yourself, only align speed is important and even that can be compensated for by a good fc, and rokhs don't have naga's main weakness as a fleet doctrine: bombs
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Gallente update:
+ Show Spoiler +Hyperion:
Here's the new and improved Hyperion. Based off of your feedback, this new version goes from 8 turrets to 6, while doubling its damage bonus from 5% per level to 10%. It also gains a larger drone bandwidth and bay, a utility high, and keeps its much-needed mid slot.
If anything, I'm worried this is too strong, but it should be an extremely fun ship to use. Hope you guys approve.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Large Hybrid Turret damage
+7.5% Armor Repair amount
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M, 7L(+1); 6 turrets , 1 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG(+250), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 7500 / 8000 / 8500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125(+25) / 175(+75)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 485
Megathron:
With the Hyperion moving to more of a combat/utility ship via its drones, heavy mid-slot allocation, and spare high, we felt the mega could now afford to move towards a completely dedicated gun boat. Instead of the former 8/5/6 utility focused set up, we now have a 7/4/8 hybrid damage machine that has sacrificed its utility high (which was often unused) to gain another low - giving it more access to damage, damage application/projection, or tank. It stays in its attack role and therefor retains the previously described increases to speed and agility. This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M, 8L(+1); 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 15500 PWG, 600 CPU(+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 122(+7) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-50) / 75(-50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)
The Hyperion is now a beast compared to the other Gallente BS, it doesn't have any drawbacks aside from the rep bonus not being put to use if you passive tank it. It has 9 effective turrets and 125mbit bandwidth while still having a utility high, five mids and seven lows. Yeah they gave it more PG too even though it's losing two turret slots. To me it looks more like what'd you expect out of a faction ship, it doesn't seem like you need to compromise on anything when fitting it.
The Megathron looks a lot worse in comparison. 8 lows is a lot but most people will stick a 3rd magstab in there which will be quite stacking penalized. Because it's losing 50mbit bandwidth as well a ganky Mega just won't be that much more ganky than a Hyperion, it doesn't stand out.
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Mega losing utility high and 5th mid is huge.
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Yeah that nano Mega goes out the window.
There were some changes to the other ships as well, Typhoon and Tempest got some more nano, Scorp traded a high for a low, Geddon got less PG and the 'poc some more cap.
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Might have to undock to derp around in a Hyperion. So amazing looking. All the powergrid ever.
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On April 10 2013 19:13 jfourz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 16:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
I really can't believe they nerfed the Rokh. If you want to nerf a system-wide effect out of principle, that's fine. But going around knocking ships that are barely used is part of what's wrong with EVE balance as a whole. Why would anyone use this ship over a Naga, even in its current iteration?
rokhs are one of the most common null sec doctrines http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=top20look at top kills by ship, rokh is almost double second place edit for ehp, which is far more important than agility in a fleet battle at typical naga/rokh engagement ranges. like you said yourself, only align speed is important and even that can be compensated for by a good fc, and rokhs don't have naga's main weakness as a fleet doctrine: bombs
I appreciate both that you read over my post and that you responded intelligently. I responded to this exact objection when Michael brought it up. Instead of saying "barely used" I should have said that its uses are extremely limited. While it may be a widely used ship (and has been for a long time, actually), it only has one use. People never undock in a solo Rokh. You never see them as part of any kind of gang. They're not a response or support ship that you undock on occasion to deal with something. They lack even an ounce of versatility. Compare this to the old Hurricane, a ship you could undock for practically every conceivable situation.
Their lack of damage bonus and odd slot layout basically guarantees that they are stuck in a sniper-y role with no wiggle room to do anything else. Nerfing their resist bonus is pretty much a nail in the coffin for any kind of non-sniper application for this ship. That was my beef with the change.
I considered editing the post when Michael brought up the point, but I decided to leave the English mistake as it is.
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Double posts make the world go round. Keep on spinning.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On April 11 2013 01:36 DefMatrixUltra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:13 jfourz wrote:On April 09 2013 16:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
I really can't believe they nerfed the Rokh. If you want to nerf a system-wide effect out of principle, that's fine. But going around knocking ships that are barely used is part of what's wrong with EVE balance as a whole. Why would anyone use this ship over a Naga, even in its current iteration?
rokhs are one of the most common null sec doctrines http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=top20look at top kills by ship, rokh is almost double second place edit for ehp, which is far more important than agility in a fleet battle at typical naga/rokh engagement ranges. like you said yourself, only align speed is important and even that can be compensated for by a good fc, and rokhs don't have naga's main weakness as a fleet doctrine: bombs I appreciate both that you read over my post and that you responded intelligently. I responded to this exact objection when Michael brought it up. Instead of saying "barely used" I should have said that its uses are extremely limited. While it may be a widely used ship (and has been for a long time, actually), it only has one use. People never undock in a solo Rokh. You never see them as part of any kind of gang. They're not a response or support ship that you undock on occasion to deal with something. They lack even an ounce of versatility. Compare this to the old Hurricane, a ship you could undock for practically every conceivable situation. Their lack of damage bonus and odd slot layout basically guarantees that they are stuck in a sniper-y role with no wiggle room to do anything else. Nerfing their resist bonus is pretty much a nail in the coffin for any kind of non-sniper application for this ship. That was my beef with the change. I considered editing the post when Michael brought up the point, but I decided to leave the English mistake as it is.
in fairness you could say this about a lot of battleships, I can't think of any ship besides the dominix that is used extensively in more than 2 'archetypes'.
Even the maelstrom has pretty much only two modes: "solo retarded amarr lowsec pirates" and "arty boat"
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I saw some people soloing in Rokhs before the ASB nerf but I'm not going to say you're wrong 
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On April 11 2013 01:56 419 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 01:36 DefMatrixUltra wrote:On April 10 2013 19:13 jfourz wrote:On April 09 2013 16:21 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
I really can't believe they nerfed the Rokh. If you want to nerf a system-wide effect out of principle, that's fine. But going around knocking ships that are barely used is part of what's wrong with EVE balance as a whole. Why would anyone use this ship over a Naga, even in its current iteration?
rokhs are one of the most common null sec doctrines http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=top20look at top kills by ship, rokh is almost double second place edit for ehp, which is far more important than agility in a fleet battle at typical naga/rokh engagement ranges. like you said yourself, only align speed is important and even that can be compensated for by a good fc, and rokhs don't have naga's main weakness as a fleet doctrine: bombs I appreciate both that you read over my post and that you responded intelligently. I responded to this exact objection when Michael brought it up. Instead of saying "barely used" I should have said that its uses are extremely limited. While it may be a widely used ship (and has been for a long time, actually), it only has one use. People never undock in a solo Rokh. You never see them as part of any kind of gang. They're not a response or support ship that you undock on occasion to deal with something. They lack even an ounce of versatility. Compare this to the old Hurricane, a ship you could undock for practically every conceivable situation. Their lack of damage bonus and odd slot layout basically guarantees that they are stuck in a sniper-y role with no wiggle room to do anything else. Nerfing their resist bonus is pretty much a nail in the coffin for any kind of non-sniper application for this ship. That was my beef with the change. I considered editing the post when Michael brought up the point, but I decided to leave the English mistake as it is. in fairness you could say this about a lot of battleships, I can't think of any ship besides the dominix that is used extensively in more than 2 'archetypes'. Even the maelstrom has pretty much only two modes: "solo retarded amarr lowsec pirates" and "arty boat"
You can definitely apply the same logic to almost every battleship - that is the basic problem with battleships. To pass a bar of usefulness they need some redeeming factor or situation that makes up for their very bad speed.
The Rokh and Apocalypse are particularly bad, though. Imagine the Machariel but without its 2 damage bonuses. It would still be a pretty decent ship (ignoring economic concerns). It has very high speed, a very good slot layout (it can easily armor or shield tank with no significant weakness in either setup), and a utility high. The Rokh is like a Machariel without 2 damage bonuses and without any of the other nice features the Machariel has. The one interesting thing the Rokh has is tons of mid slots, but its lows are very limiting. It's a ship that can project mediocre DPS at a long range. You will never armor fit a Rokh or shield fit an Apoc. You'll never build the capability to brawl with either one. Their bonuses and slot layouts just don't leave any room for possibility.
Compare to something like the Tempest. The Tempest is basically a big, slightly slower Hurricane with more raw damage and worse tracking. You can armor fit it as easily as shield fit it. You can fit it to brawl (with artillery, naturally~~~) or to kite, and it does well at both. It's got all the nice traits of a Machariel but downscaled a bit. If Tier3 BCs didn't exist, you'd see a lot more of these - so the problem isn't necessarily with this ship, it's a problem of it being obsoleted by external factors.
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United States43182 Posts
If only the tier 3 bcs didn't exist, faction bcs might actually have some relevance.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
they are seriously making the faction minmatar BC the old hurricane?
really CCP? really?
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United States43182 Posts
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The Drake looks like it might be okay, much better range, better damage on non-kinetic, explo bonus, more speed, 50% more HP. It's gonna cost close to 200m though.
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United States43182 Posts
200m will get you a cynabal. This is the problem.
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EPT
