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On March 21 2013 06:03 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 05:02 Firebolt145 wrote:
Stop reading stuff online. Honestly, 90% of stuff online is written by people who are only slightly less clueless than you are currently. It's sad but that is the way things are in EVE.
What we are doing is not abuse of game mechanics. It is a clever way to make really good isk, allowing to focus the majority of our time doing stuff that we actually enjoy without worrying about isk.
Granted, if the things you enjoy in EVE are roleplaying a miner or manufacturer or courier person, then by all means do that instead. Enjoyment > whatever isk you may gain. At the moment, I don't really enjoy anything in the game. I expected missions to become more interesting over time, but from what I gather, the same missions just repeat and are only made more difficult my NPCs doing and taking more damage, which is solved by getting better ships. Which basically means the game should be more or less as boring doing L4s in a Tengu as doing L2s in a caracal. What's fun in the game is obviously getting new ships, fitting them etc, which is unlocked by grinding, which is boring. To become more effective in attaining isk, one has to learn how to do so. This topic is basically telling me not to read online, which means there's not really any avenue of learning either. Hatchery Pub is about as as active as the BW shareware community, so there's not really any help to be gotten there either. Right now, I'm considering either joining EVE Uni and see if I enjoy fleet stuff, or simply not pay for another month of the game.
Eve PvE is awful, if you want a PvE game then Eve is not the game for you.
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On March 21 2013 06:13 Shootemup. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 06:03 Tobberoth wrote:On March 21 2013 05:02 Firebolt145 wrote:
Stop reading stuff online. Honestly, 90% of stuff online is written by people who are only slightly less clueless than you are currently. It's sad but that is the way things are in EVE.
What we are doing is not abuse of game mechanics. It is a clever way to make really good isk, allowing to focus the majority of our time doing stuff that we actually enjoy without worrying about isk.
Granted, if the things you enjoy in EVE are roleplaying a miner or manufacturer or courier person, then by all means do that instead. Enjoyment > whatever isk you may gain. At the moment, I don't really enjoy anything in the game. I expected missions to become more interesting over time, but from what I gather, the same missions just repeat and are only made more difficult my NPCs doing and taking more damage, which is solved by getting better ships. Which basically means the game should be more or less as boring doing L4s in a Tengu as doing L2s in a caracal. What's fun in the game is obviously getting new ships, fitting them etc, which is unlocked by grinding, which is boring. To become more effective in attaining isk, one has to learn how to do so. This topic is basically telling me not to read online, which means there's not really any avenue of learning either. Hatchery Pub is about as as active as the BW shareware community, so there's not really any help to be gotten there either. Right now, I'm considering either joining EVE Uni and see if I enjoy fleet stuff, or simply not pay for another month of the game. Eve PvE is awful, if you want a PvE game then Eve is not the game for you.
I don´t agree, I find EVE PvE really fun! I don´t know about missions since I never really did em. They might be pretty shit, atleast that´s why I never bothered.
Im currently doing anoms and doing exploration in nullsec and having a blast. Im also really excited by Wormhole space PvE and fighting the Sleepers. So I would not say that EVE PvE is as boring as you make it out to be.
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On March 21 2013 05:56 Zavior wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 04:58 Captain Mayhem wrote:
Is there an amarr ship that can perform at least close to the CNI for FW missions, or do I need to edit my skillplan again?
there is no such ship for amarr
Goshdarnit. At least my shield skills are decently trained.
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On March 21 2013 06:21 DBHErazor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 06:13 Shootemup. wrote:On March 21 2013 06:03 Tobberoth wrote:On March 21 2013 05:02 Firebolt145 wrote:
Stop reading stuff online. Honestly, 90% of stuff online is written by people who are only slightly less clueless than you are currently. It's sad but that is the way things are in EVE.
What we are doing is not abuse of game mechanics. It is a clever way to make really good isk, allowing to focus the majority of our time doing stuff that we actually enjoy without worrying about isk.
Granted, if the things you enjoy in EVE are roleplaying a miner or manufacturer or courier person, then by all means do that instead. Enjoyment > whatever isk you may gain. At the moment, I don't really enjoy anything in the game. I expected missions to become more interesting over time, but from what I gather, the same missions just repeat and are only made more difficult my NPCs doing and taking more damage, which is solved by getting better ships. Which basically means the game should be more or less as boring doing L4s in a Tengu as doing L2s in a caracal. What's fun in the game is obviously getting new ships, fitting them etc, which is unlocked by grinding, which is boring. To become more effective in attaining isk, one has to learn how to do so. This topic is basically telling me not to read online, which means there's not really any avenue of learning either. Hatchery Pub is about as as active as the BW shareware community, so there's not really any help to be gotten there either. Right now, I'm considering either joining EVE Uni and see if I enjoy fleet stuff, or simply not pay for another month of the game. Eve PvE is awful, if you want a PvE game then Eve is not the game for you. I don´t agree, I find EVE PvE really fun! I don´t know about missions since I never really did em. They might be pretty shit, atleast that´s why I never bothered. Im currently doing anoms and doing exploration in nullsec and having a blast. Im also really excited by Wormhole space PvE and fighting the Sleepers. So I would not say that EVE PvE is as boring as you make it out to be.
Some people get really excited by being kicked in the balls. Masochists are everywhere, even in EVE.
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On March 21 2013 06:21 DBHErazor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 06:13 Shootemup. wrote:On March 21 2013 06:03 Tobberoth wrote:On March 21 2013 05:02 Firebolt145 wrote:
Stop reading stuff online. Honestly, 90% of stuff online is written by people who are only slightly less clueless than you are currently. It's sad but that is the way things are in EVE.
What we are doing is not abuse of game mechanics. It is a clever way to make really good isk, allowing to focus the majority of our time doing stuff that we actually enjoy without worrying about isk.
Granted, if the things you enjoy in EVE are roleplaying a miner or manufacturer or courier person, then by all means do that instead. Enjoyment > whatever isk you may gain. At the moment, I don't really enjoy anything in the game. I expected missions to become more interesting over time, but from what I gather, the same missions just repeat and are only made more difficult my NPCs doing and taking more damage, which is solved by getting better ships. Which basically means the game should be more or less as boring doing L4s in a Tengu as doing L2s in a caracal. What's fun in the game is obviously getting new ships, fitting them etc, which is unlocked by grinding, which is boring. To become more effective in attaining isk, one has to learn how to do so. This topic is basically telling me not to read online, which means there's not really any avenue of learning either. Hatchery Pub is about as as active as the BW shareware community, so there's not really any help to be gotten there either. Right now, I'm considering either joining EVE Uni and see if I enjoy fleet stuff, or simply not pay for another month of the game. Eve PvE is awful, if you want a PvE game then Eve is not the game for you. I don´t agree, I find EVE PvE really fun! I don´t know about missions since I never really did em. They might be pretty shit, atleast that´s why I never bothered. Im currently doing anoms and doing exploration in nullsec and having a blast. Im also really excited by Wormhole space PvE and fighting the Sleepers. So I would not say that EVE PvE is as boring as you make it out to be.
I have done all of those things, and they are all really repetitive. There is no variation in the sites, and the only "danger" is people coming to kill you but if you aren't a moron you aren't ever going to get caught. I suppose it's an opinion thing but that is my two cents.
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On March 21 2013 06:26 solsken wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 06:21 DBHErazor wrote:On March 21 2013 06:13 Shootemup. wrote:On March 21 2013 06:03 Tobberoth wrote:On March 21 2013 05:02 Firebolt145 wrote:
Stop reading stuff online. Honestly, 90% of stuff online is written by people who are only slightly less clueless than you are currently. It's sad but that is the way things are in EVE.
What we are doing is not abuse of game mechanics. It is a clever way to make really good isk, allowing to focus the majority of our time doing stuff that we actually enjoy without worrying about isk.
Granted, if the things you enjoy in EVE are roleplaying a miner or manufacturer or courier person, then by all means do that instead. Enjoyment > whatever isk you may gain. At the moment, I don't really enjoy anything in the game. I expected missions to become more interesting over time, but from what I gather, the same missions just repeat and are only made more difficult my NPCs doing and taking more damage, which is solved by getting better ships. Which basically means the game should be more or less as boring doing L4s in a Tengu as doing L2s in a caracal. What's fun in the game is obviously getting new ships, fitting them etc, which is unlocked by grinding, which is boring. To become more effective in attaining isk, one has to learn how to do so. This topic is basically telling me not to read online, which means there's not really any avenue of learning either. Hatchery Pub is about as as active as the BW shareware community, so there's not really any help to be gotten there either. Right now, I'm considering either joining EVE Uni and see if I enjoy fleet stuff, or simply not pay for another month of the game. Eve PvE is awful, if you want a PvE game then Eve is not the game for you. I don´t agree, I find EVE PvE really fun! I don´t know about missions since I never really did em. They might be pretty shit, atleast that´s why I never bothered. Im currently doing anoms and doing exploration in nullsec and having a blast. Im also really excited by Wormhole space PvE and fighting the Sleepers. So I would not say that EVE PvE is as boring as you make it out to be. Some people get really excited by being kicked in the balls. Masochists are everywhere, even in EVE.
nono, trust me, those things are fun. They just are only fun for a month or so.
Just got off null sec exploring. 500m mag sites are fun! For a month, maybe 6 weeks.
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On March 21 2013 04:57 Tobberoth wrote:
Well, that certainly makes me less inclined to play the game.
So, this is what starting Eve with a group that isn't TL will be like. Or you can just suck it up and learn how do what you want when you want how you want. Or not play. Honestly, there is no reason anyone would care if you play or not.
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On March 21 2013 06:03 Tobberoth wrote:
What's fun in the game is obviously getting new ships, fitting them etc, which is unlocked by grinding, which is boring.
Honestly? I think what's fun in the game is solo or small-gang pvp. The risk and learning to manage that risk is the fun part. You can never account for what another human being will do vs. you.
I will say (before someone else says it) that I haven't been playing a lot recently, but when I have I've pretty much been flying one particular ship & fit, a nano Wolf with artillery, and trust me there's plenty to master in terms of being able to fly that without worrying about anything else. It did, however, take a while for it to really dawn on me how much depth there can be in just learning to do that one thing well.
No, I'm not there yet. In a few weeks I may have some time to invest in the game, though, and if so, that'll be what I'm doing.
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A fun way to play the game? You don't know enough about the game to understand.
Either way, there are two distinct styles of playing eve
1. Go about your business doing what you like. Having fun. For example when I first started playing I spent about 8 months inside of worm hole living out of a stealth bomber, and a giant secure container. I was having a blast, and I took it upon myself to develop an entire way to play eve. It certainly wasn't the most efficient way to play (in regards to making isk) But either way at the time, I thought life was good.
2. Then I started hanging out with the hatch. They were pvping all of the time, and I started to learn so much. Thing is- when you are pvping a ton you also need isk to keep the ships flowing. (especially when you dual hat trick drakes in one day) SO then you start to think to your self- what is it you really enjoy about eve? For me I had always though that doing some fun stealth bomber thing would be cool. But in the end I realized that they only thing I really enjoyed about eve was the PvP I wanted to blow more ships up, and I wanted to get better. And the only way to do that was to have isk to fund the PvP habit. It was because of this that I immediately took to doing things that would give me a ton of isk for little pve work, becuase I hate pve. Currently for me- my favorite activity is doing combined pvp and pve. I use a caracal and just fly around in FW space orbiting Medium buttons. I can pve while I pvp. its as close as one can get to actually making a profit flying pure pvp, and I am loving it.
If that doesn't sound like fun to you, then don't do it. Go run level 4's and scrape for a few hundred mil. But one day your going to realize (after having played a few months) that having a ton of isk is a good thing, and its amazing. When you jump on to TS and listen to me or another hatch member laugh off a few billion isk loss and wish that you too could fly HACs, BC's and fight a ton of GF's with out the thought of losing your ship hanging over you head- that is when you will will understand.
But until then, have at eve and do your thing. I wont stop you
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Can someone explain the tier mechanic in FW as far as rewards are concerned? I'm under the impression that you earn significantly more LP during T4/T5, and that the LP store is significantly discounted during T4/T5.
If that's true is it even worthwhile to plex when we're not at T4/T5?
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You earn more LP during T3/4/5 but the LP store is no longer discounted like before - instead all prices are normalized to old T3 standards I believe.
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On March 21 2013 04:57 Tobberoth wrote:
Well, that certainly makes me less inclined to play the game. It sounds like downright exploiting that doing something in a merlin which from what I can gather online (which like you say is obviously not telling the whole truth), wasn't intended to be lucrative, makes you far more isk than working your butt of to get the skills and items needed to do L4 missions. Especially since even L2 missions aren't all that lucrative, I doubt I even make 500k isk on average doing a mission which can take anything from 10 to 20 minutes. [1]
I could join up with SB and hope for them to teach me how to abuse myself tons of isk in a merlin but I don't know, it just doesn't sound like a fun way to play the game. [2]
What FW complexes sounds like when reading up on it online is basically find a complex, go into it, wait for people to come kill you. Nothing is mentioned of how this could ever lead to profit. [3]
[1] You can't "exploit" something (in the negative connotation of the word) in a sandbox. This is not a game that was designed so that every system would interact in a hard-coded predictable way. The concept you have of normal MMO progression you can just abandon entirely. Yes, the developers built something like that into EVE (missions), but EVE is a sandbox - you make your own game. The word I bolded in your post is almost meaningless in the context of EVE's developers. They created a game whose interactions are governed by players. FW plexing isn't inherently or innately lucrative - the fact that you can make huge piles of ISK off it is an emergent property of the economy.
Mining is currently one of the worst ways to make ISK. But it could easily be the best in the game. Imagine a situation where everyone in the game stopped mining. Mineral supply would plummet and prices would go through the roof. A mining ship might cost 20b or more as a result. Are you "exploiting" if you save up money to buy this ship and then print 5b an hour with it? FW is the same thing except it's significantly more complicated to take advantage of. Luckily, people in TL have it more or less all figured out and down to an extremely simple, efficient, repeatable system.
It might offend your sensibilities that you could make more in a week than some people have made in years playing EVE. Your natural human realization of fairness is at odds with this idea. But the economy in EVE isn't socialist. It's not even a mixed "get paid for the amount of work you do" system. It is a completely unregulated capitalist hellscape where clever individuals are free to discover new, more efficient ways of wealth generation.
[2] Making ISK is not fun for 99% of people. Making ISK is simply a means to an end, just like a job in reality. You make money so you can do what you want. TL players make money to spend in PVP (or to make more money [to spend in PVP]).
[3] That's because there is a reasonably long chain of problems to solve and figures to analyze before it is apparent that FW plexing could be profitable. This keeps 99% of people from using FW for ISK.
On March 21 2013 06:12 Firebolt145 wrote:
Best place to learn is to come onto TeamLiquid's teamspeak and into the EVE channels. [1]
It may be worth applying to Eve University... [2]
[1] This is what you really want to do. As I explained before, a corporation is just a game mechanics box you can put people in. But you can interact with TL through the robust chat system (you can be in whatever channel you want, doesn't matter what corp you're in) and through TS and this thread. Exposing yourself to the knowledge of TL EVE veterans can only help you.
[2] However, this is absolutely terrible advice.
You could join EUNI, and they would tell you the opposite of everything I've said. They'll tell you that your instincts are correct, that there is a structure in the game that conforms entirely to your expectations. They'll reinforce your ideas of fairness and assure you that L4 missions and mining are the accepted ways to make money in EVE. They'll tell you that you can't shoot "allies" and that "enemies" are to be hunted down aggressively.
They'll explain to you how war is a terrible slight against EUNI and you personally. Even if you like PVP, war is apparently bad. They'll explain to you to never undock without a superior force with superior numbers. You wouldn't want to risk losing a fight. You should never go it alone. Things like this ( and this and this and this) are strictly impossible.
They'll tell you all these things and more to prepare you to be another cog in the giant nullsec machine. They'll prepare you to sit ready in space for hours while nothing happens before your illustrious leaders send you off to shoot at inanimate objects for their epeen benefit the pride of your alliance. They'll teach you how to dock up immediately when a non-ally enters the solar system so you won't embarrass them you won't come to harm from your "enemies".
Economically, they'll teach you how to mine efficiently so you can give up to 10% (or up to 100% in an "emergency") of your yield to your alliance while making a few pennies for yourself. They'll teach you how to kill rats for ISK (so you can pay taxes straight into their wallets).
In PVP, they'll teach you how to form a proper fleet to camp a gate. They'll teach you how to use jump bridges so you can spend an hour going half-way across the universe to protect a structure which they make shit-tons of ISK off of that is crucial to the success of your alliance.
But more importantly, they'll teach you to get slaughtered by people who embrace the philosophy that there are no limits but the ones you create yourself.
No one can tell you how to play EVE. It's a sandbox. But I can tell you that, for me, there are ways to play EVE that are 100000x more fun and engaging than others and that finding those ways to play EVE is easier with insider knowledge that TL players can provide.
On March 21 2013 06:03 Tobberoth wrote:
At the moment, I don't really enjoy anything in the game. [1]
I expected missions to become more interesting over time, but from what I gather, the same missions just repeat and are only made more difficult my NPCs doing and taking more damage, which is solved by getting better ships. Which basically means the game should be more or less as boring doing L4s in a Tengu as doing L2s in a caracal. [2]
What's fun in the game is obviously getting new ships, fitting them etc, which is unlocked by grinding, which is boring. [3]
To become more effective in attaining isk, one has to learn how to do so. This topic is basically telling me not to read online, which means there's not really any avenue of learning either. [4]
Hatchery Pub is about as as active as the BW shareware community, so there's not really any help to be gotten there either.[5]
Right now, I'm considering either joining EVE Uni and see if I enjoy fleet stuff, or simply not pay for another month of the game. [8]
[1] It's hard to enjoy anything in the game when you're poor and lack a fundamental outlook on structures that exist within the game and the playstyles they allow.
[2] You are exactly right. Missions never change, they only pay out slightly higher as you go "up".
[3] There is a lot of fun stuff to do in the game that isn't apparent when you're new. All your experience with games has given you expectations that are not correct about this game. One way you can bypass "grinding" (or, in this case, waiting for skillpoints) is to get filthy rich and buy a character (or a set) with tons of SP. But even if you don't want to do that, you can do things that don't require lots of SP. Solo roaming in a frigate requires a very low amount of SP to do effectively, and is one of the most enjoyable things you can do in the game imo.
[4] You can learn everything on your own by playing the game (not by reading what other people think because 99% of people are grossly misinformed). But why do that? Isaac Newton single-handedly tore down the walls limiting our understanding of the universe. When asked about his amazing accomplishments, he said "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." He didn't develop from scratch every bit of mathematics and relational understanding - he used the work of the generations before him and the advice and guidance of his contemporaries. There's no point in reinventing the wheel. You don't need to start from scratch. The fundamental basis you are looking for in order to understand the game cannot be found on wikis, but it can be found in the TL community.
[5] Try getting on TS. The TL EVE community used to be all in the same corp, but over time it has spread out to a dozen different corps with different levels of activity. But TS is where they all coincide.
[6] If after getting your bearings from TL players, you want to join a non-TL corp, I'd recommend RVB. They will teach you how to PVP without involving you in made-up structures and petty political entities and otherwise filling your mind with garbage.
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Damn nice post def- very well said
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On March 21 2013 08:51 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
They'll tell you all these things and more to prepare you to be another cog in the giant nullsec machine. They'll prepare you to sit ready in space for hours while nothing happens before your illustrious leaders send you off to shoot at inanimate objects for their epeen benefit the pride of your alliance. They'll teach you how to dock up immediately when a non-ally enters the solar system so you won't embarrass them you won't come to harm from your "enemies".
Economically, they'll teach you how to mine efficiently so you can give up to 10% (or up to 100% in an "emergency") of your yield to your alliance while making a few pennies for yourself. They'll teach you how to kill rats for ISK (so you can pay taxes straight into their wallets).
In PVP, they'll teach you how to form a proper fleet to camp a gate. They'll teach you how to use jump bridges so you can spend an hour going half-way across the universe to protect a structure which they make shit-tons of ISK off of that is crucial to the success of your alliance.
But more importantly, they'll teach you to get slaughtered by people who embrace the philosophy that there are no limits but the ones you create yourself.
Hi, my name is Michael and I'm a null-bear addict.
The above is 100% true. It's great that Asakai brought you into the game, in fact, I was there! I waffle faced, because while reading about a 3000 man fight seems epic- it really isnt.
I'm almost ready to move all of my assets out and learn to PvP. I'm just playing too much LoL right now.
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On March 21 2013 09:28 Ramiel wrote:
Damn nice post def- very well said
+1.
Although, about joining RvB - While they have a number of competent pvpers, and there are tons of people willing to 1v1, there are also downsides to RvB. There are a number of people who solo in RvB using links and/or pirate implants, and when coupled with much better SP than yourself and some pretty basic game knowledge, they will be virtually untouchable by you in the immediate future. Don't get discouraged if there are some people who will beat you in 100% of fights.
Also, there is still the "blob" mentality in RvB fleets. I FC'd a few fleets, and in general, there are a lot of "press approach and F1" players in the corp.....
But then again, I FC'd one time and enforced a doctrine of arty/rail fit ships with MWD's and long points, or tackle ships with MWD/scram/web, (it was a weird situation, it started as just a bunch of people soloing and in fleet to provide warpins for eachother, but turned into an actual roam looking for another fleet to fight), and I drilled it into their heads that the tackle ships were to keep with the main group unless ordered otherwise, and we absloutely slaughtered a bigger fleet. Multiple times.
Personally, I don't think joining RvB is the smartest move for someone new to PvP. I feel it is a great place to find targets, and find fights to practice and hone your skills, but as for actually learning how to fight in Eve, I feel that you really won't learn much there.
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On March 21 2013 10:09 Impervious wrote:+1. Although, about joining RvB - While they have a number of competent pvpers, and there are tons of people willing to 1v1, there are also downsides to RvB. There are a number of people who solo in RvB using links and/or pirate implants, and when coupled with much better SP than yourself and some pretty basic game knowledge, they will be virtually untouchable by you in the immediate future. Don't get discouraged if there are some people who will beat you in 100% of fights. Also, there is still the "blob" mentality in RvB fleets. I FC'd a few fleets, and in general, there are a lot of "press approach and F1" players in the corp..... But then again, I FC'd one time and enforced a doctrine of arty/rail fit ships with MWD's and long points, or tackle ships with MWD/scram/web, (it was a weird situation, it started as just a bunch of people soloing and in fleet to provide warpins for eachother, but turned into an actual roam looking for another fleet to fight), and I drilled it into their heads that the tackle ships were to keep with the main group unless ordered otherwise, and we absloutely slaughtered a bigger fleet. Multiple times. Personally, I don't think joining RvB is the smartest move for someone new to PvP. I feel it is a great place to find targets, and find fights to practice and hone your skills, but as for actually learning how to fight in Eve, I feel that you really won't learn much there.
I have to say, if you're looking for fun and a good active PvP community within EVE, RvB is probably your best bet.
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@ Tobberoth
I'll give you a different perspective. The most important thing to do if you want to play, is to sit down and think about what you want to play, and how you will play that. Everyone loves to pull out the tired old saying of Eve is a sandbox, theres endless possibilities!
Quite frankly that gives the wrong impression about eve. The secret to playing is actually making your own content, whether alone or jointly. You can never expect to be entertained unless you do the entertaining.
Kwark isn't a good player because he's filthy fucking rich, or an amazing small gang fc, or insanely knowledgeable about the game. He's good at eve because he can continually make his own content. He built his own corp to get the fights he wanted, he broke half a dozen eve mechanics to make trillions because thats what interested him as a min/max style of player. Hell he even got to prove he was better than everyone else by leaving The Hatchery and watching it die because no one else could generate content as well as he did.
So sit and think about what you want to do. Do you want to play a political intrigue game? Do you want to play space pirate, or cunning and despised thief who robs people of their hard work? Do you just want a social game where people work towards some larger goal? Be an industry/market tycoon? Hell theres literally at least a dozen different ways to even differentiate what kind of pew pew pvp you want to do.
So sit and think about what kind of game you want to play and then ask around. If the answer isn't min/max abuse the hell out of finer mechanics and pvp in small, or mostly by yourself, and only do the highest income per hour pve content then TL might not be the most receptive forum for this.
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On March 21 2013 10:09 Impervious wrote:+1. Although, about joining RvB - While they have a number of competent pvpers, and there are tons of people willing to 1v1, there are also downsides to RvB. There are a number of people who solo in RvB using links and/or pirate implants, and when coupled with much better SP than yourself and some pretty basic game knowledge, they will be virtually untouchable by you in the immediate future. Don't get discouraged if there are some people who will beat you in 100% of fights. Also, there is still the "blob" mentality in RvB fleets. I FC'd a few fleets, and in general, there are a lot of "press approach and F1" players in the corp..... But then again, I FC'd one time and enforced a doctrine of arty/rail fit ships with MWD's and long points, or tackle ships with MWD/scram/web, (it was a weird situation, it started as just a bunch of people soloing and in fleet to provide warpins for eachother, but turned into an actual roam looking for another fleet to fight), and I drilled it into their heads that the tackle ships were to keep with the main group unless ordered otherwise, and we absloutely slaughtered a bigger fleet. Multiple times. Personally, I don't think joining RvB is the smartest move for someone new to PvP. I feel it is a great place to find targets, and find fights to practice and hone your skills, but as for actually learning how to fight in Eve, I feel that you really won't learn much there.
Good points, but RVB is still by far the best corp available to new players outside of TL.
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To get a better idea about content creation- check this out:
http://evestealthbomber.blogspot.com/
That was little old me when I first started playing. No one showed me how to do any of that. I had to go through a ton of trial and error- but at the end of it- i could turn a single 40mil isk frigate into a terror machine. I thought that it was the coolest and most enjoyable thing, when a small (read 3 to 5) people in bombers could make an entire corp of 30+ people inside a Worm hole freeze up. At the time, I also thought that the money was good too. I extorted people for 250mil isk so that way they could by a 'mining license' and I would blow up industrial ships worth of huge loot. I made a billion isk once inside of 15 seconds, after my little frigate caught an industrial ship undefended for a short period of time.
Now no one taught me how to do these things, and to me they were fun, however small fry they seem 
That is the kind of play style and enjoyment you need to find in eve
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How well does FW earn? At the moment I earn some 200M a day with inventing stuff, whilst that doesn't take much time everyday, it kind of is a chore and putting more than 1 hour into it every day does not increase revenue.
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EPT
