On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
kk ( : Anyways I've been following eve for a while now, I find it remarkable being it is simultaneously one of the most incredible games to watch/follow and perhaps THE most frustrating game to play. Which is why I think that of all the potential universes a game like dust 514 could be coming to, eve is the one that could use it the most. I mean the synthesis of a crisp fps and the real time giant that is eve is not only awesome by virtue of it's sheer audacity, it's amazing because it represents the bridging of gamings hard core strategy demographic and perhaps it's less obscenely dedicated casual demographic. Which is really I think the best way for eve to evolve as a video game, because as it stands it's hard to adjust the learning curve without destroying what makes eve great (it's remarkable depth) building a more easy going but equally rewarding experience within eve without compromising the fundamental game is pretty much the safest way of bringing the mountain to Muhammad.
Plus I can easily imagine people getting into eve via dust 514, and vice versa, in general this really seems like one of the most important attempts to develop the very nature of gaming in the past decade.
Also I have a question, Generally the mmo endgame tends to involve the acquirement of powerful gear, said mmo allows the player to exercise their arms through the games particular funnel(for instance wows funnel is arenas and high level raids) yet in eve online there is no funnel, you gather weapons and assets because thats where the games conclusion inevitably leads, reason being that there is no farming or shelter requirements in eve, as in there is no need for anything else that might divert a market away from arms. The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
I'm an idiot, there said it in advance.
You should vote for the Dust Corp Name and post a lot in the thread
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
Alright, I get it, I do, I understand that not every player has to be a pvper, many are miners, some are ship builders/outfiters, others explorers. But in the end where does all the isk generally flow? To weapons and hence to war. I'm wondering if phenomena like the first and second great wars aren't so much anomalies as much as natural outcomes that happen as a result of obtaining a large amount of volatile assets.
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
Alright, I get it, I do, I understand that not every player has to be a pvper, many are miners, some are ship builders/outfiters, others explorers. But in the end where does all the isk generally flow? To weapons and hence to war. I'm wondering if phenomena like the first and second great wars aren't so much anomalies as much as natural outcomes that happen as a result of obtaining a large amount of volatile assets.
Many of the richest just gain more isk to pile on top of their heads. Much like the pancake bunny. Most of the other money in the economy goes towards buying ships, not to pvp with, but rather engage in the most compelling of aspects. Ship Spinning.
I'd only estimate about 1% of the economy is actually used to have war, 51% goes to the pancake pile, 15% to ship spinning and 33% is used to buy exotic dancers.
On a more serious note, its a sandbox. Though you're right most things in the game involve some sort of guns or lead to the creation of ships and guns. However there are thousands who simply are not interested in fighting, some only interest in shooting npcs, and some that live and die by the sword, and one guy who falls on that sword and subsequently gets his trolling called out by CCP and gets a 30 day ban.
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
Alright, I get it, I do, I understand that not every player has to be a pvper, many are miners, some are ship builders/outfiters, others explorers. But in the end where does all the isk generally flow? To weapons and hence to war. I'm wondering if phenomena like the first and second great wars aren't so much anomalies as much as natural outcomes that happen as a result of obtaining a large amount of volatile assets.
Many of the richest just gain more isk to pile on top of their heads. Much like the pancake bunny. Most of the other money in the economy goes towards buying ships, not to pvp with, but rather engage in the most compelling of aspects. Ship Spinning.
I'd only estimate about 1% of the economy is actually used to have war, 51% goes to the pancake pile, 15% to ship spinning and 33% is used to buy exotic dancers.
Wow that dissapointing, oh well, wish the us's war budget looked more like that
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
Alright, I get it, I do, I understand that not every player has to be a pvper, many are miners, some are ship builders/outfiters, others explorers. But in the end where does all the isk generally flow? To weapons and hence to war. I'm wondering if phenomena like the first and second great wars aren't so much anomalies as much as natural outcomes that happen as a result of obtaining a large amount of volatile assets.
Somewhere I read a nice article, maybe it was even here, that basically almost anything you do somehow directly or indirectly affects PvP. But then again, what is PvP? Player versus Player.. it can be a fight of ships.. in most cases it is.. It can also be a fight over market, right? No bullet needs to be shot and you can screw people over the market. I mean, the game is based around ships and equipment, right.. And majority of this is guns and weapons. When you mine minerals, they will most certainly end up being a ship, or equipment. If you buy something on market, you just donated ISK to people that will most certainly use it to get more stuff to kill others. If you find something fancy in an exploration site and sell it on market.. well I am pretty sure it'll be used to produce something that will either be directly used for combat or will be sold and this money will go to combat. Or will it go to mining lasers to get more minerals? and the circle is closing You get shot? You need more isk, you buy new ship, you either do it to do PvP, or you fuel more PvP elsewhere.
People do whatever they want. It can be chilled out mining, salvaging, sitting in a base and trading.. or it can be doing the same thing in null sec with tension and wondering if someone will come to kill you. And you're not safe anywhere. Not even in hisec.
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
Alright, I get it, I do, I understand that not every player has to be a pvper, many are miners, some are ship builders/outfiters, others explorers. But in the end where does all the isk generally flow? To weapons and hence to war. I'm wondering if phenomena like the first and second great wars aren't so much anomalies as much as natural outcomes that happen as a result of obtaining a large amount of volatile assets.
Many of the richest just gain more isk to pile on top of their heads. Much like the pancake bunny. Most of the other money in the economy goes towards buying ships, not to pvp with, but rather engage in the most compelling of aspects. Ship Spinning.
I'd only estimate about 1% of the economy is actually used to have war, 51% goes to the pancake pile, 15% to ship spinning and 33% is used to buy exotic dancers.
Wow that dissapointing, oh well, wish the us's war budget looked more like that
"War is just the continuation of business by other means" --Bertolt Brecht
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
Alright, I get it, I do, I understand that not every player has to be a pvper, many are miners, some are ship builders/outfiters, others explorers. But in the end where does all the isk generally flow? To weapons and hence to war. I'm wondering if phenomena like the first and second great wars aren't so much anomalies as much as natural outcomes that happen as a result of obtaining a large amount of volatile assets.
Somewhere I read a nice article, maybe it was even here, that basically almost anything you do somehow directly or indirectly affects PvP. But then again, what is PvP? Player versus Player.. it can be a fight of ships.. in most cases it is.. It can also be a fight over market, right? No bullet needs to be shot and you can screw people over the market. I mean, the game is based around ships and equipment, right.. And majority of this is guns and weapons. When you mine minerals, they will most certainly end up being a ship, or equipment. If you buy something on market, you just donated ISK to people that will most certainly use it to get more stuff to kill others. If you find something fancy in an exploration site and sell it on market.. well I am pretty sure it'll be used to produce something that will either be directly used for combat or will be sold and this money will go to combat. Or will it go to mining lasers to get more minerals? and the circle is closing You get shot? You need more isk, you buy new ship, you either do it to do PvP, or you fuel more PvP elsewhere.
People do whatever they want. It can be chilled out mining, salvaging, sitting in a base and trading.. or it can be doing the same thing in null sec with tension and wondering if someone will come to kill you. And you're not safe anywhere. Not even in hisec.
See thats exactly what I was thinking, everything in eve eventually translates into weapons ships and animosity. But opinions so far have differed.
That's the glorious nature of EVE. Although a lot of people consider 0.0 (nullsec) to be EVE's endgame, that's very much not the case for everyone.
Most of us in Hatchery have a love for smallgang PvP. We have no desire to live out in nullsec and have lots of capital (big) ships, which I guess could be the equivalent of 'gear'. Instead we prefer to take a bunch of ships and fight against huge odds and win sheerly out of skill. Some of us make isk solely to fund our PvP. Others choose to make isk to make isk to make isk because they actually enjoy it.
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
Alright, I get it, I do, I understand that not every player has to be a pvper, many are miners, some are ship builders/outfiters, others explorers. But in the end where does all the isk generally flow? To weapons and hence to war. I'm wondering if phenomena like the first and second great wars aren't so much anomalies as much as natural outcomes that happen as a result of obtaining a large amount of volatile assets.
Somewhere I read a nice article, maybe it was even here, that basically almost anything you do somehow directly or indirectly affects PvP. But then again, what is PvP? Player versus Player.. it can be a fight of ships.. in most cases it is.. It can also be a fight over market, right? No bullet needs to be shot and you can screw people over the market. I mean, the game is based around ships and equipment, right.. And majority of this is guns and weapons. When you mine minerals, they will most certainly end up being a ship, or equipment. If you buy something on market, you just donated ISK to people that will most certainly use it to get more stuff to kill others. If you find something fancy in an exploration site and sell it on market.. well I am pretty sure it'll be used to produce something that will either be directly used for combat or will be sold and this money will go to combat. Or will it go to mining lasers to get more minerals? and the circle is closing You get shot? You need more isk, you buy new ship, you either do it to do PvP, or you fuel more PvP elsewhere.
People do whatever they want. It can be chilled out mining, salvaging, sitting in a base and trading.. or it can be doing the same thing in null sec with tension and wondering if someone will come to kill you. And you're not safe anywhere. Not even in hisec.
See thats exactly what I was thinking, everything in eve eventually translates into weapons ships and animosity. But opinions so far have differed.
Everything in EVE is spaceships. You can't buy food or shit like that. Everything is spaceships and guns and things used to make spaceships and guns.
You're making it sound like there is some kind of mechanic that instills a sense of urgency to destroy things. There isn't. The biggest alliances have fallen to crushing defeats against weak enemies because their members just didn't care to undock their ships. You've got it all backwards. If anything, people in EVE influence and encourage the EVE market to more readily provide ships to explode. Not the other way around.
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
But doesn't everything just contribute to a consistent global arms race?
You're assuming that progression includes taking over others' stuff or like invading others etc.
Like I said, progression is whatever the fuck you want it to be.
/edit - Just to clarify, I buy my own personal ships and fly on whatever fleets I want to. I have no concern about space or ownership of territory in any way. My goal in the game is to have idiots donate their money to me and to shoot whatever is interesting to shoot.
Alright, I get it, I do, I understand that not every player has to be a pvper, many are miners, some are ship builders/outfiters, others explorers. But in the end where does all the isk generally flow? To weapons and hence to war. I'm wondering if phenomena like the first and second great wars aren't so much anomalies as much as natural outcomes that happen as a result of obtaining a large amount of volatile assets.
Somewhere I read a nice article, maybe it was even here, that basically almost anything you do somehow directly or indirectly affects PvP. But then again, what is PvP? Player versus Player.. it can be a fight of ships.. in most cases it is.. It can also be a fight over market, right? No bullet needs to be shot and you can screw people over the market. I mean, the game is based around ships and equipment, right.. And majority of this is guns and weapons. When you mine minerals, they will most certainly end up being a ship, or equipment. If you buy something on market, you just donated ISK to people that will most certainly use it to get more stuff to kill others. If you find something fancy in an exploration site and sell it on market.. well I am pretty sure it'll be used to produce something that will either be directly used for combat or will be sold and this money will go to combat. Or will it go to mining lasers to get more minerals? and the circle is closing You get shot? You need more isk, you buy new ship, you either do it to do PvP, or you fuel more PvP elsewhere.
People do whatever they want. It can be chilled out mining, salvaging, sitting in a base and trading.. or it can be doing the same thing in null sec with tension and wondering if someone will come to kill you. And you're not safe anywhere. Not even in hisec.
See thats exactly what I was thinking, everything in eve eventually translates into weapons ships and animosity. But opinions so far have differed.
Everything in EVE is spaceships. You can't buy food or shit like that. Everything is spaceships and guns and things used to make spaceships and guns.
You're making it sound like there is some kind of mechanic that instills a sense of urgency to destroy things. There isn't. The biggest alliances have fallen to crushing defeats against weak enemies because their members just didn't care to undock their ships. You've got it all backwards. If anything, people in EVE influence and encourage the EVE market to more readily provide ships to explode. Not the other way around.
Players are only able to enjoy this influence on the game because the game has that capacity, eve is one server that gives people a universe with which they can pretty much do with as they please, the thing is though that everything like you said gets churned out as a weapon or a gun, meaning yes there is only one market, therefore one outcome to the game that decided by the market, war. You can speak as soft as you want, but if you carry a big stick long enough you will use it.
Also I'm curious if large scale conflict is also inevitable(which is actually pretty unique in terms of quality to eve online) as opposed to just general pvp. For instance, if a great war broke out would the hatchery take a side? Would they just nibble at the conflicts edges to make a profit? Point is I feel even small high quality non territory interested corps like the hatch would still feel compelled to join such a war and thats not really because of the atmosphere the players built. It's more so I bilieve because this kind of war is apart of the games very nature. Players will feel pulled towards it because really thats what the game builds up to. Large scale conflict.
On March 31 2012 00:53 gumshoe wrote: Also I'm curious if large scale conflict is also inevitable(which is actually pretty unique in terms of quality to eve online) as opposed to just general pvp. For instance, if a great war broke out would the hatchery take a side? Would they just nibble at the conflicts edges to make a profit? Point is I feel even small high quality non territory interested corps like the hatch would still feel compelled to join such a war and thats not really because of the atmosphere the players built. It's more so I bilieve because this kind of war is apart of the games very nature. Players will feel pulled towards it because really thats what the game builds up to. Large scale conflict.
On March 31 2012 00:53 gumshoe wrote: Also I'm curious if large scale conflict is also inevitable(which is actually pretty unique in terms of quality to eve online) as opposed to just general pvp. For instance, if a great war broke out would the hatchery take a side? Would they just nibble at the conflicts edges to make a profit? Point is I feel even small high quality non territory interested corps like the hatch would still feel compelled to join such a war and thats not really because of the atmosphere the players built. It's more so I bilieve because this kind of war is apart of the games very nature. Players will feel pulled towards it because really thats what the game builds up to. Large scale conflict.
Since you're so informed, I will bow out.
I'm sorry for coming off as a know it all, I dont even play the game ) : but you said it your self, pvp is inevitable given weapons are everything, what I'm wondering is if wars are likewise.
EPT
