On March 30 2012 08:47 motbob wrote: Contract sniping dying is definitely a good thing for the game, just like W&Ging dying was a good thing. Both involved exploiting shitty, confusing game mechanics.
I suppose I can say that because I've already made my isk. Sorry to anyone who was just getting into the contract market.
JitaTradeWoman is probably on suicide watch as we speak.
I can see what you're saying.
On the other hand, this is just going to turn a huge, interesting chunk of the game into
1) Get market skills 2) Baby-sit buy orders
With contracts, you require almost literally no skills whatsoever, just your brains, your understanding of economics. I feel like this is a net loss for the game tbh.
The market stuff that takes the most skill and knowledge has nothing to do w/ contracts. What I did was rather mindless, for the most part. A bot would have been better at my job than I was.
With contracts, you can't modify your prices once you've set them without paying the transaction fee all over again, which is quite sizeable past 100 mil. With regular market, its 100 isk as long as the increment is lower, or very small.
On March 30 2012 11:02 motbob wrote: The market stuff that takes the most skill and knowledge has nothing to do w/ contracts. What I did was rather mindless, for the most part. A bot would have been better at my job than I was.
On March 30 2012 11:02 motbob wrote: The market stuff that takes the most skill and knowledge has nothing to do w/ contracts. What I did was rather mindless, for the most part. A bot would have been better at my job than I was.
Sniping isn't all there is to contracting.
I'm aware. But the "legit" stuff you can do with contracts is much more limited than what you can do with the market. At least in my opinion.
On March 30 2012 11:02 motbob wrote: The market stuff that takes the most skill and knowledge has nothing to do w/ contracts. What I did was rather mindless, for the most part. A bot would have been better at my job than I was.
Sniping isn't all there is to contracting.
I'm aware. But the "legit" stuff you can do with contracts is much more limited than what you can do with the market. At least in my opinion.
As an example, the unique availability of deadspace items (and, to some extent, faction blueprints) can allow things that a normal market won't allow. Large-scale manipulation without evidence (like market history) can make the perceived price of items higher than it should. In the case of faction blueprints, it's especially interesting because you can work in tandem with the market history of the actual item itself - i.e. driving the price of the actual item up causes the value of the blueprints to go up as well, an incredibly backwards but very interesting side-effect of the kind of perception wars you can wage.
.01 ISK wars also happen very very differently in contracts than in the market and are not only subject to but also responsible for creating perceptions about the value of items.
I just feel like contracts is sort of the unexplored strange territory of trading and that the game will lose a lot of subtle ways for intelligence and scheming to come out ahead of slave-driving .01 bots.
Pfft unexplored. The contract place is basically a flat line. Buy low, sell high. Snag good deals as fast as you can with the instant refresh method. Rinse and repeat.
On March 30 2012 11:02 motbob wrote: The market stuff that takes the most skill and knowledge has nothing to do w/ contracts. What I did was rather mindless, for the most part. A bot would have been better at my job than I was.
Sniping isn't all there is to contracting.
I'm aware. But the "legit" stuff you can do with contracts is much more limited than what you can do with the market. At least in my opinion.
As an example, the unique availability of deadspace items (and, to some extent, faction blueprints) can allow things that a normal market won't allow. Large-scale manipulation without evidence (like market history) can make the perceived price of items higher than it should. In the case of faction blueprints, it's especially interesting because you can work in tandem with the market history of the actual item itself - i.e. driving the price of the actual item up causes the value of the blueprints to go up as well, an incredibly backwards but very interesting side-effect of the kind of perception wars you can wage.
.01 ISK wars also happen very very differently in contracts than in the market and are not only subject to but also responsible for creating perceptions about the value of items.
I just feel like contracts is sort of the unexplored strange territory of trading and that the game will lose a lot of subtle ways for intelligence and scheming to come out ahead of slave-driving .01 bots.
But that's basically a function of how inefficient the contracts interface is at reflecting market information, isn't it? (Which leads to higher margins / volatility / vulnerabiltiy to manipulation compared to the regular market)
In which case the CCP changes seem like a good thing.
On March 30 2012 08:58 YowDog2 wrote: Hey guys, I never knew that there was a EVE group on TL, just found out today. I played EVE for almost a year i think about 2 years ago, but quit because my corp and alliance was kind of split up in different timezones and getting groups of pvpers together took forever. On top of that I never understood how people could get 30mil in like 30 minutes(or something ridiculous xD) And i read that you guys don't want Gallente which is what my main race was(but i could research other races ships noooo problemm) So just wondering If I join you guys, what time do you guys normally make pvp groups and go in low sec and where are you guys located and such? I still feel like I have a LOT to learn about the game.
Try 100m in 30 minutes from lvl4 missions.
We're more US and EU timezone based. Our 'main' fleets are usually around the evenings/nights for us so it would be early morning through late morning for Taiwan. However there definitely is activity throughout the day most days. Very often we'd just randomly feel like going out for a roam with a small group of people. We live in lowsec bordering nullsec and spend 90% of our PvP time in nullsec. We don't really have a hisec base, but many of us have hisec alts that we use to make isk through various activities like missioning.
The problem with Gallente is that most of their ships do not lend themselves well to our fleet style. They have a few ships that work well but they are rather specialised and take a long time to train for; I doubt you will have access to them already. Anyway when you first join us you will be put in a Rifter to learn our style of flying and learn the game. You will still have a pivotal and important role as our fast tackle. You will be in this ship for some time (a month plus) during which you can also train up your support skills and towards a more useful (for our fleets) ship like a Drake/Cane/Harb.
If you have any further questions feel free to ask, but I strongly recommend you read the very first post in this thread as it has a lot of information about us.
The cane got out because I was chasing the tengu, and the tengu got out as I was tabbed over to get my sleip in to kill the tengu before the end of time. Sad times.
Edit: And all I got was a c-type passive explosive hardener I did learn though that the tengu turns like a brick, and that I can heat literally forever. And that I can go pretty man mode in the thing and be perfectly fine.
Hi I'm thinking about starting up eve in the summer after school (with the hatchery preferably ( but before then can I still ask questions here or provoke discussion?
Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
kk ( : Anyways I've been following eve for a while now, I find it remarkable being it is simultaneously one of the most incredible games to watch/follow and perhaps THE most frustrating game to play. Which is why I think that of all the potential universes a game like dust 514 could be coming to, eve is the one that could use it the most. I mean the synthesis of a crisp fps and the real time giant that is eve is not only awesome by virtue of it's sheer audacity, it's amazing because it represents the bridging of gamings hard core strategy demographic and perhaps it's less obscenely dedicated casual demographic. Which is really I think the best way for eve to evolve as a video game, because as it stands it's hard to adjust the learning curve without destroying what makes eve great (it's remarkable depth) building a more easy going but equally rewarding experience within eve without compromising the fundamental game is pretty much the safest way of bringing the mountain to Muhammad.
Plus I can easily imagine people getting into eve via dust 514, and vice versa, in general this really seems like one of the most important attempts to develop the very nature of gaming in the past decade.
Also I have a question, Generally the mmo endgame tends to involve the acquirement of powerful gear, said mmo allows the player to exercise their arms through the games particular funnel(for instance wows funnel is arenas and high level raids) yet in eve online there is no funnel, you gather weapons and assets because thats where the games conclusion inevitably leads, reason being that there is no farming or shelter requirements in eve, as in there is no need for anything else that might divert a market away from arms. The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
@gumshoe: I think so? The goal of most people in Eve is to make enough money to PvP. What PvP looks like differs from person to person. Some people prefer preying on witless explorers, while others like small gang warfare. Some alliances prefer dropping caps on whoever they can find, other prefer fucking with the economy because that's what they think is fun. The majority of ISK in Eve goes to PvP, in all it's various forms.
So if by 'large scale war' you mean PvP, then yes. Eve is perpetually engaged in large scale war.
On March 30 2012 23:01 Firebolt145 wrote: Sure. Just make sure you read the OP before anything otherwise you'll be called an idiot. And after that you'll still be called an idiot but at least inside you'll feel better.
The only thing you can invest your isk in is the pursuit of more isk or more weapons(I am ignoring vanity items and subscription isk because the first is meh and second becomes nominal over time) So given that eve both contains the capacity to encourage and sustain large conflict and offers no other outlet for isk but arms and no preferable clear cut gameplay funnel(like wow offers), is large scale war an inevitability in eve?
Nothing is inevitable in EVE except bads.
There is quite literally nothing dictating any kind of playstyle or sense of progression. Progression is done on an individual basis according to individual philosophy. You do whatever the fuck. It's a sandbox.
EPT
