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On May 04 2009 04:26 BeJe77 wrote:Raliz, exactly, no jammers, titan bridges, basically all advantages lost...Not very fair to me, since even when BoB attacked all other entities they had the very same advantages.  ... @Monsen, I don't know if it's bullying to tell you the truth. Every entity has a goal, for instance in starcraft team/clans their goal is to be the best or be in the top teams of Starcraft.. In EvE BoB's initial goal was to conquer all of 0.0 space, i.e. try to control everything but they failed.... I don't think it's bullying it's just a goal they had, like every other entity has. Bullying is where you don't fight to win but just fight to humiliate the opponent, BoB fought to win not to bully. -BeJ P.S. I do apologize but its not my intention to be an ass toward anyone. I am just trying to put in my perspective over the many years of playing EvE without all the propaganda that has been spewed in and facts twisted...If I have offended somebody sorry it was not my intention .
My remark was more of a shot at BoB, not being able to control their top brass and Goons ability to gather intelligence. BoB severely underestimated Goons ability to play the Meta game and they got beat there.
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Well, the reason BoB attacked Goon in the first place was because Diana thought Goons would become a threat iirc? Probably wrong here but I'm sure it's something to this effect.
If anyone remembers, the Smoske incident was the largest bull of an excuse I've ever heard lol.
Anyway, guess Diana (he is a SA member I believe) was right.
bob unleashed the goon forum foo and you don't beat goons in meta game.
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whats the Smoske incident for those of us who just read and don't play? (^_^)
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I don't remember all the specifics (I have shit memory) but it went something like this.
Apparently Smoske (not even sure if I'm spelling this right) was a popular guy with some of the bob head honchos.
He died, in a car accident or something.
Some goon on their forum had a signature which supposedly made fun of him or insulted him or something and bob with their spies got their hands on it.
BoB got really butt hurt and started spamming the forums with moral outrage and righteous indignation.
It was really ridiculously, basically, bob started saying that goons lacked class (this part maybe true) and shouldn't be a part of the eve community (yea, not a joke).
Back then, bob was all about being the white knight.
And so, they used this incident as an excuse to go to war with goons.
As if you really need a reason to go to war but I guess bob wanted the community on their side.
This lead to bob coming up to syndicate and camping it 24/7 for a couple of days. Eventually goons would leave syndicate and find allies in RA.
This whole incident is why goons and bob hate each other and why they have been fighting each other ever since.
dammit why do I keep bumping this thread, it should die.
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well um seriously though, don't you think thats a legit reason to get pissed in an online game? I sure would be too.
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On May 04 2009 05:52 Ace wrote:
well um seriously though, don't you think thats a legit reason to get pissed in an online game? I sure would be too.
Yea, probably.
If they wanted to go to war over it, ok, fine.
They went a little over the top with the old boys club attitude and forum trashing though. Blown way way out of proportion and it would cause their own downfall.
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When you're trying to control all player space, claim you're the best of the best (whether true or not) and generally show an arrogant attitude- you'll be considered a bully. And people will love to see you get spanked. What's so hard to understand about that?
Edit: Just to clarify- I don't really care about EVE, Goons or Bob either- you just seem agitated.
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From those reports I've read the same could be said about Goon Squad huh? Haven't you ever read Animal Farm?
^_^
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Monsen, BoB is not the special apple in eve or any other game...
Just like in Starcraft or any other game, you have arrogant people and players who claim to be the best of the best...FPS whatever you name it same people everywhere....It's not bullying its just part of every game...
Controlling all of 0.0 is a goal. Just like every other corp/alliance has their goals that was there's....In any game Multiplayer or not your try to be the best and win it all, so does that make you a bully as well Monsen?
-BeJ
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Anyway, going on a little tangent of Monsen:
If you think about it, Bob has a losing belief system.
You can be the best but claiming to be the best (outright stating and blowing your own horn) is a lose lose proposition.
If you win - so what, you are expected to win.
If you lose - you'll never hear the end of it.
On May 04 2009 06:16 Ace wrote:
From those reports I've read the same could be said about Goon Squad huh? Haven't you ever read Animal Farm?
^_^
Difference is, goons and PL learned from bob. They don't toot their horn anywhere near as bob did.
Especially PL, because honestly, they are better than bob now. At least when it comes to roaming gangs.
Between the major players, I find BS gangs all pretty much equal now.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Two more Mittani updates:
+ Show Spoiler [05/02 Update] +According to the previous update, we didn't expect to get much done on this day, and yet it ended up being a massive ****fest. As it turns out, our coalition has many more euros on holiday than RKZ and their group. Because RKZ decided to try to defend Period Basis rather than work on 49-, -A- ****ed off, leaving RKZ alone - and we had them outnumbered 300 to 200, thereabouts.
Things began at 16:30 EVE when Imperian took charge of the cross-coalition blob. We scampered to Z-M where Molle was sieging under a jammer, having summoned 140ish capitals. Much to our own surprise, RKZ gave the order to offline the Z-M jammer; we promptly cynoed those 140 caps into Z-M and commenced to hellpurge. All of the EXE towers from 17:00 onward which came out of RF there and in G-Q next door died, totalling four in Z-M and 2 in G-Q.
Once that was done, our capfleet hellpurged Z-M, downed the jammer in G-Q, hellpurged G-Q and nuked the station services. Starting at 1:00 we had a bunch of KIA towers to rep, and we knew RKZ was going to alarmclock for 4:00. We repped the towers until 4:00, when apparently we had a case of the stupids, lost our convoy/reinforcement fleet, had a fc spergout and actually lost a fight at this hour. Three KIA towers were lost. Tower count in Z-M is 7 friendly to 6 Hostile; G-Q is 3 friendly to 8 hostile with no open moons.
In other **** news, PL whacked a Skunk-Works (read: RISE) Nyx in 49, the first supercap kill/death in the theatre in a while (Molle? Waagaa? was the last one, iirc?).
Helen and the DS1 Spy Crew (ploptops sends his regards) stole an Avatar, 3 titans worth of components and 1 Nyx in comps from Atlas, all of which are in empire. This has created a delightful ****storm in CAOD.
Adding insult to injury, XIX and PL takes out an Atlas Dyspro moon, killing several carriers and Bobby Atlas in the process.
The big points of conflict today are RKZ repping in 49, the RKZ R64 coming out at 16:30, and after that it's a quiet day towerwise; tomorrow is the big day for EXE's survival or fall in PB.
+ Show Spoiler [05/03 Update] +In the aftermath of our "get alarmclocked by RKZ at 4:00 and lose a couple of KIA towers" situation, EXE dropped more towers in Z-M. They currently have 8 to KIA's 9.
After downtime yesterday, our intrepid heroes went to Z-M, downed the jammer, reinforced two of the new towers and whacked a dread which they bumped out of a pos. After obliterating a small EXE fleet, it was time to scamper to C-7 and seize that R64! Only problem: goons are dumb, the timer had been entered into the app wrong, and the fleet arrived after the tower had been repped/stronted. Welp. We sieged C-7 and P4 R64s and left.
Most of eurotime was spent on tower-rep duty; as you can see from yesterday's pos jpg below, a pair of KIA's towers had been kited and came out at 19:00ish. We repped them. Then we rode bikes while listening to the SOTG and sorting out whether we love or hate mumble compared to teamspeak.
In US TZ, more repping, then RKZ formed up at another late night alarmclock at 3:00 to shoot a KIA tower. We chased them off and killed them, as Morsus Mihi's killboard shows, then repped the tower. In the pre-downtime 8:00 timeslot, RKZ formed up to rep one of their towers, then got doomsdayed by Karttoon and Porky of RZR.
Z-M and G-Q could be won today, and EXE ruined, if we establish dominance right after the sever goes up. We need every goon who can play on a Sunday morning to get there.
Mandatory link to EVE maps site, so we can see where all these systems are:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/
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On May 04 2009 06:21 Spike wrote:Anyway, going on a little tangent of Monsen: If you think about it, Bob has a losing belief system. You can be the best but claiming to be the best (outright stating and blowing your own horn) is a lose lose proposition.If you win - so what, you are expected to win. If you lose - you'll never hear the end of it. Show nested quote +On May 04 2009 06:16 Ace wrote:
From those reports I've read the same could be said about Goon Squad huh? Haven't you ever read Animal Farm?
^_^ Difference is, goons and PL learned from bob. They don't toot their horn anywhere near as bob did. Especially PL, because honestly, they are better than bob now. At least when it comes to roaming gangs. Between the major players, I find BS gangs all pretty much equal now.
Actually if they really are the best that's the attitude of a champion in any sport you find. Sure you can be humble but sometimes you have to let your presence be known. I guess the player base would have felt different if BoB said they are the best and there was an *, which stated they cheated/had unfair advantages to get that title.
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On May 04 2009 06:18 BeJe77 wrote:
Monsen, BoB is not the special apple in eve or any other game...
Just like in Starcraft or any other game, you have arrogant people and players who claim to be the best of the best...FPS whatever you name it same people everywhere....It's not bullying its just part of every game...
Controlling all of 0.0 is a goal. Just like every other corp/alliance has their goals that was there's....In any game Multiplayer or not your try to be the best and win it all, so does that make you a bully as well Monsen?
-BeJ
I don't think you get my point, really- BoB basically chose to be bullies.
If you play a multiplayer game and try to be the best- that's fine.
If you play a multiplayer game and brag about being the best- that's different.
If you play a roleplaying multiplayer game where your dominance actually hurts other players- you will be considered a bully.
Edit: Anyway what a pointless argument- I was just trying to explain why people in this thread tend to like goons more since you asked why that was.
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On May 04 2009 06:32 Ace wrote:
Actually if they really are the best that's the attitude of a champion in any sport you find. Sure you can be humble but sometimes you have to let your presence be known.
No, not what I meant.
PL know they are good and they let you know it when they beat you but...
And goons will never let you forget it if they beat you in a battle.
Kinda hard to explain.
If you reread bob's old posts you would see what I mean.
Anyway, my problem with bob was never their arrogance.
Although this did sway public opinion against them over time.
My problem was (they don't try this anymore) with their "white knight" syndrome, always seeking the moral high ground. ughhh you know?
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PL- Will let you know they beat you
BoB/-A- will let you know they beat you and will keep reminding you for a while
NC/Goons will never let you forget they beat you
Sums it up perfectly .
Spike I do kinda agree with the whole "White Night" thing but that is like any BoB's propaganda, hell the more people they can get on their side the better the war will go for them... Compared to the crap goons were/are spewing and shit they did look like it hence why so many people bit the bait....
But in the end it is really kind of hard to explain it to new people who have not been playing EvE for a while...There is just like so much crap that has happened and so many things twisted over the years it's pretty crazy, but it's what keeps me entertained and going :D!!!
-BeJ
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ive never played EVE and doesnt know how it works, but i still read about 75% of the first post. This really facinates me, somehow. Nice writeup!
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
It's a shame CDRDude didn't keep the first post updated. A lot of additional material has been posted in this topic that makes for good reading.
So out of curiosity about the history of EVE, I started looking back at the oldest auto-generated Sov maps. It looks like they go back as far as 2007 August 9th. Below are the monthly snapshots that I am looking at.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20070822.png
A lot of new (old) names are visible. Triumvirate has some territory in the northwest. The northeast is a mess of alliances: Legion of xXDeathXx barely shows up with a handful of systems, and Solar Fleet is not visible at all. IRON (Imperial Republic of the North) is there, though. RISE and the other shitty BoB pets that The Mittani mentioned are visible in the southeast. TCF has territory in the southeast only. CVA is still in Providence in pretty much the exact same place it is today. Pandemic Legion and many other alliances are nowhere to be seen.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20070922.png
Fallen Souls has disappeared from the northwest. The Makhai have disappeared from under Hydra Alliance, who appear to have usurped them.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20071022.png
RAZOR has greatly expanded its territory, kicking out 4 different alliances. Mostly Harmless now holds some territory in the north, where it sits today. FREGE Alliance disappeared from the northeast, and Legion of xXDeathXx is no longer on the map, although they appear to hold some systems still. 4 alliances have disappeared from the southeast, including RISE, as the Redswarm Federation push back BoB. IAC (Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate) is losing territory fast. In the west, BoB has apparently taken most of Exuro Mortis's territory.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20071122.png
RAZOR lost a bit of ground, while Triumvirate has continued to expand. YouWhat has disppeared and two alliances, The Reckoning and FREGE, have appeared in its place. In the northeast, Ethereal Dawn and IRC (Intrepid Crossing) have expanded their sovereignty, while INVICTUS and Oxide have disappeared. In the southeast, a massive amount of territory has gone from BoB + pets to Redswarm Federation. Meanwhile IAC continues to lose sov to BoB. In the west, RISE appears to have been given some new territory by BoB.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20071222.png
In the northwest, FREGE and Combined Planetary Union are gone. In the northeast, the Drone Regions have been given actual names. IRON and SMASH Alliance grew at the expense of Pure and ROADKILL. In the southeast, IAC has begun to repel BoB, while the Redswarm Federation has increased its sov. In the west, RISE and some other pets are gone, replaced by Brutally Clever Empire.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20080122.png
Atrum Tempestas Foedus and The Reckoning have increased their sov. In the northeast, Dark Matter Coalition has lost a bunch of territory to Atlas Alliance. In the south, BoB has been pushed out of Catch completely by IAC. Furthermore, Firmus Ixion has disappeared, and IRON, RAZOR, IAC, and Brotherhood of Steel have invaded Querious. Evoke and, interestingly, KIA Alliance have appeared in Period Basis. KIA is in pretty much the same place that it is today, which may explain why they have taken that part of Period Basis in the current war. In the west, pretty much all of Fountain has been taken from BoB, with most of it going to Brutally Clever Empire. Sons of Tangra have appeared on the map, and Mostly Harmless has some sov there as well.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20080222.png
Not much has happened in the northwest. In the northeast, Dark Matter Coalition has disappeared at the hands of Atlas Alliance and Ka-Tet. Legion of xXDeathXx has reappeared on the sov map. In the southeast, Knights of the Southerncross have disappeared, their territory now in the hands of AAA and Black-Out. In the southwest, Brotherhood of Steel now owns most of Querious. Brutally Clever Empire and Sons of Tangra have expanded their influence in Fountain, and even Morsus Mihi has appeared. Delve is starting to show cracks as BoB loses sov in a number of systems.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20080322.png
In the northwest, The Reckoning appears to have been replaced by Black Core Alliance. ATF (Atrum Tempestas Foedus) has taken territory from Rare Faction, who have disappeared. Morsus Mihi is expanding their influence in the region as well. In the northeast, xxDeathxx and Ultima Ratio have expanded their influence. The southeast is relatively stable. The southwest is also surprisingly stable, although Evoke has been replaced by Daisho Syndicate.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20080422.png
In the northwest, Insurgency and Triumvirate have both taken a lot of additional territory. Black Core Alliance has disappeared and several smaller alliances have taken its place. In the northeast, Rule of Three has disappeared, swallowed by Mostly Harmless it seems. Solar Fleet and Solar Wing have finally appeared. Firmus Ixion, previously in Querious, has reappeared beside Atlas Alliance. IRC has expanded its influence, mainly by adding 3 new outposts (which show more influence on the map). In the southeast, Zenith Affinity has appeared on the map, but otherwise things are mostly the same. In the southwest, BoB has begun to retake Querious.
That's enough for now. I'll look through the remaining months later.
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On May 04 2009 05:28 Spike wrote:
I don't remember all the specifics (I have shit memory) but it went something like this.
Apparently Smoske (not even sure if I'm spelling this right) was a popular guy with some of the bob head honchos.
He died, in a car accident or something.
Some goon on their forum had a signature which supposedly made fun of him or insulted him or something and bob with their spies got their hands on it.
BoB got really butt hurt and started spamming the forums with moral outrage and righteous indignation.
It was really ridiculously, basically, bob started saying that goons lacked class (this part maybe true) and shouldn't be a part of the eve community (yea, not a joke).
Back then, bob was all about being the white knight.
And so, they used this incident as an excuse to go to war with goons.
As if you really need a reason to go to war but I guess bob wanted the community on their side.
This lead to bob coming up to syndicate and camping it 24/7 for a couple of days. Eventually goons would leave syndicate and find allies in RA.
This whole incident is why goons and bob hate each other and why they have been fighting each other ever since.
dammit why do I keep bumping this thread, it should die.
No reason to let it die. For one it got me back into Eve (Be flying a cruiser in a day or 2) and second its and interesting show for those who don't really understand meta game. This entire thread represents meta game.
On top of that, we all know eve might represent the future of MMos - A completely player driven game, where the developers let go of you and you never had to look back.
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Metagaming has always intrigued me. I love the "politics" part of any video game, especially SC. It makes things spicy.
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I would so love an MMO like Eve but with more action oriented combat. I tried Eve but the combat (at least PvE) is extremly boring, PvP might be more fun but I did not go that far (the boring combat and the *mountain* of things to learn shook me off quickly, I'm normally totally in love with statistics and perfectioning weapon setups and so on... But this seemed to be to much to learn at once, I hate it if I have no clue and don't even see... At least in the beginning a player should be *free* to not skill his char wrong and actually know himself what exactly he is skilling right now and for what :p).
Freelancer or Wing Commander combat (but rpg/stats affected) with all the options Eve gives you when it comes to Ships, Weapons, Jobs...... I would be soooo in love. Well Eve probably opened up the marked for a game like this... I probably just have to wait ^^.
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