EPT[DotA] Replays~!! - Page 25
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
In a game, someone has to assume the role of the leader. Like seriously, I've seen games where one team completely out picks the other, but simply because no one is guided to do what, they crash and lose to the 5-carry hero team. A simple tell of what heroes to pick, where to go, what to do, and when to push, can make a difference. TL simply loves to farm forever, if someone doesn't say to do otherwise, that's what they'll do. It's not just TL, in general beginners will want to farm. Who doesn't want to get good items right? A good leader will make the difference, to make the calls. If not, it'll just be a bunch of heroes running around. One thing that TL needs to work on is to not farm forever, there's a time to push. That could be changed if a leader just told them to push. Although there are cases where you have team mates that aren't skilled enough to do what is needed. That's why you need balanced teams. But even so, they need the experience, so if they mess up once, they'll learn from it and not do it again. If they do it again, so be it, keep telling them, eventually they'll get tired of dying and they'll stop. All this talk about DotA is making me want to play. But I uninstalled WCIII and GArena. =P | ||
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
I remember one game with JLIG.Vicious where we completely dominated in maybe 30 minutes with about equally skilled players because of the teamwork and coordination alone. | ||
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Chewits
Northern Ireland1200 Posts
Right I just played a clan game here for Pick Leauge. We lost both games. I am posting the 2nd game because I want constructive criticism on it. Download here - http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/38587/index.html - I want your help to help me, and my team improve. I want you to give constructive criticism on game play. For example, did Centaur not "tank" enough? Sentinel (my team): Sven + Lina - Bot Centaur + Storm Spirit - Top Zeus - Mid Scourge: NA + Bane - Bot Warlock + Void - Top Puck - Mid I remember cursing a bit, cuz we didn't ban NA, when we really should have, because we were 3 INT. I think Sentinel bans were Magnus, Beastmaster, Silencer. They banned Sandking, Tiny and I cant remember their 3rd ban, sorry. We decided to gamble with no AGI, and really be aggressive. Was this a careless move? I mean storm can almost be an AGI hero with his electric rave? So on to the game. After fucking up the first game we really want to fuck these guys up. We started off very aggressive, with Sven ganging alot. Started off well, gangs were good. Then we made some mistakes. So heres my thoughts. First mistake. Centaur decides to go neutral in forest. He didnt announce this, just did it. Was he being tank enough throughout game? 21minutes we have taken 3 towers down. Should we have pushed this hard so early on? Sround 30 minutes, I felt we just lost momentum. Everytime we tried to gang they always were not their or get out in time. After watching replay, it is because of wards. What's a good time to buy sentrys to kill wards in river? I guess at that mark we should have thought of it b4 ganging their forest. 40minutes - fucked up majorily. What went wrong? Took top tower 49 minutes, then got ganged top. Now here was a situation where some of us said go and some said back. THis leads me on to question. When it comes to leadership of a team, should there be one person that makes all the calls and everyone else should obey them no matter what? See, yea this makes sense, but at same time, I cant make all the calls cuz I cant see everything. I guess that is what makes a good player in team, the ability to be able to make the right move. Anyway, I don't want to point blame at anyone at my team or anything, I just want some help, improving our teamplay. As I watch teh replay and looking at the line up, i think we lost by not banning NA. On another note, i find when being Leader, I have to spend more time watching what is going on than my own game. I dont concentrate as much on farming etc, I concentrate more on map control and such. Sometimes I find this puts me behind. Does that make sense? I am still learning how to play competitively, and playing these clan games definitely helps. As the last page or so has been about poor level of play, i would highly suggest that anyone wanting to paly better, gets on Vent and starts playing vs teams and not jsut 5 random pubs that will only care about making 2502523 creep kills and gettin all the leetzor items, with 4 aegis stacked. That, in my opinion is not what DotA is about. DotA is a pretty fucking intense team game, that is easy to play but hard to master. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On April 21 2008 06:42 azndsh wrote: I'd say almost half the games I've played with less teamwork than what you'd see with b.net pubbies. Basically, everyone farms all game, ganks occasionally, and pushes when they have three level 4 items. I'm nowhere near good enough to know what to do, but it's very obvious when leadership is needed. I remember one game with JLIG.Vicious where we completely dominated in maybe 30 minutes with about equally skilled players because of the teamwork and coordination alone. Are you scoopa by chance? If not, I can't remember playing with you[your nickname]. Anyway I appreciate the compliment. Even if you weren't scoopa all the games that TLnetters have played with myself and friends has been really fun/smooth/fast games. I guess since everyone is being brutally honest here's what I'll offer about the whole leadership issue. There is definitely room [ AND A POOL ] of players from TL dota that could actually do pretty good in low to medium level leagues. Cal-o to im or even htgn-open etc. From what I can tell those players are Testie, Lefnaij, Scoopa, Ryugie, Paper, Zizou, Shinbi[ I might've mixed you up here since I'm not sure on names ] I excluded Heen because he has his own team, and to be frank, I think it would be pretty stupid to ask Heen to lead TL dota games when he has his own team to be a part of. The reason I play few TL games is mainly because I play tda with friends aka former league-level teammates. That's the biggest reason, but the other reason is because half of the TL dota players reply with ' I just play for fun ' whenever anyone tries to help, pulls an rpf by acting insulted when offered advice[or doesn't listen and asks more pointless questions], or they honestly want to get good, but simply cannot in TLnet's inhouse environment. The games I have played with TL [ probably around 5-10 ] I usually never say anything because I know I'm playing with people who ' play for fun ' so I never ask anyone to buy wards, if I see that we need them I buy them on my own. I never say who to target, or when we should gank, or when runes are up. I just play to game with some people I know through a forum. To be honest, lots of players in TL dota dick-ride Testie and are all over people's nuts. That shit never really flew with me simply because: A) Nobody but Heen and the one game I saw of Lefnaij is *good* at dota from TLnet games B) People rage, even though they know they are playing with people who suck/don't care. C) I don't like Testie anyway as a person because he hacked in the past. Still what he did in bw is respectable. From my personal experience, like I said before, I taught all my friends irl and those I knew only from vent how to play dota from scratch. We played -apem pubs forever, got to know all the heroes, skills, orbs etc and I taught them basic teamwork. I don't see myself as a cocky person, in fact I prefer to play with friends and lose thousands of games than play with strangers and win many times [ another reason why I don't *prefer* playing with TLnet dota ] My teammates put trust in me when we started playing leagues and without ever really deciding it, I became the unspoken leader. People questioned me every single game, what item to get, what skills to get. But that was it, one answer and my teammates accepted it because I was able to play every role, carry, support, gank, everything. They didn't [again] pull an rpf and question the clearly more experienced player or ask for additional explanations. One time per hero, one explanation, that's all you need, everyone starts off as a newb. Anyway, I'm pretty proud to where it led right up to the day we quit playing seriously. For all the time you guys spend on this game, you guys could really make an organized effort and do pretty well in some lower-mid level leagues imo. DotA is really a game that integrates a lot of people's time. The last things I want to say are: 1. Don't think because you're part of the TLnet community, that some how makes you more gm or good manner towards others. There's lots of people on TLnet who need a reality check. If you're playing with people you know from a site like ours, then play being considerate of other people's time. If they want to play a serious game cuz they are tired of losing EVERY time, and you know you ' just play for fun ' don't play in that game with them. Sit one out. 2. DotA isn't about winning, it's about improving. As long as you improve, win or lose, you will have fun in the end. You shouldn't settle for mediocrity and only play for fun from the get-go. When you start losing games and you *know* 100% that you did all you could that game, losing won't even matter. What will matter is that even though your team was stacked against, or you had one pubber who sucked and lost it for you it will be comforting to know that you and the rest of your teammates did everything you could and still pulled off some sick stuff. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
anyway, i've been saying to some people that we should organize teams within TL that consistently play against each other. it'll give lesser skilled players an incentive to listen/improve and create more quality games because it takes just ONE person to completely fuck up a game, so if we exclude them in the pre-arranged teams (but not the "for fun" TL games) until they get better, they might want to try harder. the reason i created the TL dota thread was to get some quality games but atm the games are probably worse than pubs with the retarded hierarchy of skills with the only good exception of no leavers, which is arguable because whenever cats/testie/(insert host) thinks the game is over, they just leave at their discretion which is ridiculous, especially given cats' retarded mentality. anyway with the pre-arranged teams, people can build better coordination and work on improving skills with people they can trust. imo, a group of similar skilled players is a lot better than a team of scattered skill levels, so this will probably work out. even if youre just playing for fun, i think this will make people play harder despite their main aim. the only problem is the limited number of people but with 50 people in the clan and maybe overlapping team members, i think we can make this work. i for one will def try to last hit better if these games become more meaningful | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
I really like to play support heroes and initiators like VS ES etc but lately I've plain refused to do so unless there were like ~2-3 people on the team that I trusted to follow-up in a timely manner, and instead I rolled heroes like cent/BB/TB to practice my jungling or whatever that doesn't rely on others as much. It hurts when you buy wards and yet the knowledge they give isn't being used! People still get ganked bot sent when you have a ward at bot rune for example even though you clearly had 10 second notice. Anyway I've only played DotA with TL so maybe I should try some other places just to experience it  Anyone have any good places? I heard something about tda or ihcs but I have no idea what they areI kinda want to get good @ dota but I dunno if TL is the best place to do so although the primary reason I still play at all is similar to Vicious' only playing with friends. At least random TL people are better than totally random people so even if I find a good place to improve somewhere else I doubt I'll play it instead =/ | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
fux that, the more the merrier, you just joined up? Slap on some boots and march son, because we're putting you to dota. Ack, you are extremely egotistical and your post is a transparent, semi-hidden brag. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
On April 21 2008 03:45 [TYG]Transcend wrote: Well from what I've seen, you're lazy AND not serious. LOLOL! I've never seen you talk, not to mention give advice =P Even in vent while we were laning to battle the Evilz of Shinbi and Supa you didn't talk much. I also never said you didn't know the mechanics. =o DON'T ASSUME. i didnt talk on vent because my vent key is on my numpad, and taking my hand of my mouse would be bad =/. Besides, its not like you obs every game im in so its hard to assume that i dont talk. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 21 2008 12:22 MYM.Testie wrote: Nevake just started, what about him? Expect us to leave him out because he's new? fux that, the more the merrier, you just joined up? Slap on some boots and march son, because we're putting you to dota. Ack, you are extremely egotistical and your post is a transparent, semi-hidden brag. Cause he knows half of TL's in house is trash and the same trash have yet to shown any respectable improvement since the start of this DotA idea? I played one game with you guys and wanted to kill myself 5 mins in. Its exactly how ack described it, people are stupid and are unwilling to learn or get better but still want to play, thats not an in house, thats a glorified pub. Oh lets not forget that I personally have gotten a HELL OF ALOT better since playing with ack and his team. So yeah Testie, it was a brag, but he has shit to back it up. | ||
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
I still can't believe we lost that game, even if I wasn't in the condition to play I thought you and Rui would carry the team. But I guess the Lock was just that bad, no harass + rock at the wrong times = lose. LOL I guess since we've only played one game together a long time ago, and I wasn't really in the condition to play, I'm not considered decent. =(! LOL I still remember when Rui was absolutely furious and frustrated at how bad the lock was. John + that lock was really new to the game though, poor guys. Didn't Rui say he was quitting DotA? It seems that he's still playing though, I think? Honestly, if you came to play more with TL, along with Heen and Bdares, I'd start playing TL DotA more instead of just observing and shout casting. As a matter of fact, I might actually install WCIII and GArena back. So come, Vicious, you'll revive DotA for a poor soul. Anyways, this isn't a chat room. LOL @ SHINBI. I think you should play some HLR1 games, if you can beat them pretty easily, you can try getting into DPL or something. You're definitely not IHCS or IHCS2 level yet. It's really limiting if you don't have a team. I'm really out of the competitive scene now ~.~. Don't play TDA, honestly if Vicious can say otherwise, TDA is really boring and bad. Back when I played TDA, TDA would be the equivalent of like HLR2. Shinbi, what you should do is play DotA-League with the TL team, those people want to improve their game for sure. Else, try getting into like DPL/IHL(I heard it was reborn)/DotA-League. If you don't have BNet, you're out of luck, I can't think of a GArena league, all you have is HLR1 and EUCW. And CAL-O is like a organized pubs. IMO, TL.net should form two teams of players that truly want to improve and sign up in DotA-League. Btw what's Heens team name/tag? AND WTF SHINBI YOU TOOK MY QUOTE OFF. </3 Still wondering why no one likes me here. =[ </3 BTW ME + ALVEN > SHINBI + SUPA The leadership issue is done, there's nothing more to talk about, this means you Strafe, which by the manner of how you speak, SupaScoopa. LOL! Testie + Cats + SJ + Ryugie + Dark Sel vs SupaScoopa + Shinbi + Alven + Devaz + Bdares That'd be a decent match up, also they are all in there little group within TL. OMG VICIOUS WE COULD SO LIKE SHOUT CAST AND RECORD THAT GAME. Kay, I'm only here for the sake of typing and not wanting to go to sleep. ... IMO TL should have a 2V2 tournament, or if DotA is big enough in TL, a full 5v5 tournament with like 4-8 teams. CALL TO ARMS! VICOUS, SHINBI, ALVEN AND SUPA. (Shinbi forced to get a mic tehe) Testie can have his SJ + Cats + Devaz + Ryugie, only reason i took Supa over Ryugie. BUTT BUDDIES! BigBlind will take all the less experienced players, RPF, PPZ, etc. Heen brings his own team JF brings his team, though he has likes 7 people. Zizou brings his team. YAY 6 TEAMS. =3 I'm sure there are more people that can form, sorry if I forgot to mention you guys. If anyone likes the idea, I'm so up for organizing it, it'd be the third tournament I've organized. <3 THEN SOMEONE COULD SET UP A NETWORK FOR STREAMING AND ZOMG DOTA WILL FLOURISH IN TL. Yawn, yeah still don't want to sleep just yet. It'd be fun, then again, I'm content with just playing my 2v2's, listening to Supa whine when my Pudge owns him is fun. Edit: Alven, I wasn't attacking you jeez, you my 2v2 team mate. It's just what I've seen, I'm sure you could be a great leader. Btw seriously, change that vent button to CTRL, it's right beside ALT so it's easy. JUDICATOR HAS BEEN PLAYING WITH VICIOUS? JOOOOOOO Bnet names plox. /F A Transcend, does Rui play with you guys?! Because I don't think he likes me. =( | ||
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{ToT}Strafe
Thailand7026 Posts
FUCKS GO GANK THAT BASTARD NAO!!! I feel that's perfect leadership. It offers incentive and is very clear cut on what to do. Some recognition please. Anyway I play outside TL a lot(mostly), but I don't really have a team anymore(again). Anyway are there any TLérs that want to start a serious team? I'm all for it and won't dagon every game I promise. There are plenty of players that could make a decent team. Alventenie, Testie, Ryugie, Paper, Color, StfuIlucky(although not really TL I guess), Jianfei are probably the better of these and then are still some more who have potential SJ, Zelniq, Shinbi and so on. Maybe even PewPew... nah thats LuDA~ Anyone want to? | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
Someone should write up a summary on them. All those acronyms making me dizzy. Since I'm at the bottom of the totem pole, judging by your reply, ihcs has to be at least halfway up there There's a TL dota-league team? That's pretty cool, I'll look into that. I have BNet too, so that's not a problem Anyway, sleepy time (Your post was all over the place btw, made me dizzy. Why is everything making me dizzy lately. I need sleep) | ||
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
 we'll prob need 1 more player :< ack play for us ? | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On April 21 2008 12:51 Judicator wrote: Cause he knows half of TL's in house is trash and the same trash have yet to shown any respectable improvement since the start of this DotA idea? I played one game with you guys and wanted to kill myself 5 mins in. Its exactly how ack described it, people are stupid and are unwilling to learn or get better but still want to play, thats not an in house, thats a glorified pub. Oh lets not forget that I personally have gotten a HELL OF ALOT better since playing with ack and his team. So yeah Testie, it was a brag, but he has shit to back it up. Some people just started, some people simply aren't that good it's hardly polite to run in and say, "god everyones so fucking dumb & sucks." When did I question if he had shit to back it up, that's like me logging on BW and telling everyone they suck in channel TL-west and that I wish i'd suicide and that I had some place better to be at the moment. It's such an insult and you just can't act like a douche without getting called on it. You two are being douche bags. You think we care because you're moderately good douchebags? I can tell you for a fact that in all games: most people plataeu. Very few plataeu at a high level. Some are just better than others, not everyone can improve. They improve at their own pace, let them learn and play, give pointers where you can, but don't shit all over them. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On April 21 2008 12:22 MYM.Testie wrote: Nevake just started, what about him? Expect us to leave him out because he's new? fux that, the more the merrier, you just joined up? Slap on some boots and march son, because we're putting you to dota. Ack, you are extremely egotistical and your post is a transparent, semi-hidden brag. I don't see why you have to make a personal attack here. I can see why you think that it was a egotistical post, because it was to a certain point. Thing is, I don't see why you think it's so bad seeing as how you're no stranger to bragging as well. If there's anything you should judge me on, it's the fact that I never complain on games with TL, and that I I have given a solid 10-20 pages of information if you took all my advisory posts purely about dota in the two threads we have at this site. RPF is the only one I said was retarded for asking questions, and even that was after many repetitions. Anyway, what you said was exactly what I was talking about. You are too selfish, and if anyone is a douchebag here, it's you. You are the one who makes people wait over a literal 15 min, only to reveal that you were gone to eat. Then you come back and act like nothing happened, if that's not e-whoring yourself I don't know what is. I will apologize to anyone who had the same thoughts as Testie regarding my post, although I highly doubt anyone does because I was just offering my personal experience. Edit: Strafe I would've included you if I saw you in the games I played in, but I'm pretty sure you didn't play very many games. | ||
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