EPTAlso, some of us prefer different play styles (a good example is that i lane more with sven than i gank, even though he is a ganking hero. Then with my dazzle i prefer to go dps than mek/skadi (which i also can do, i just like ac/deso more)). While they aren't the best way to play those heroes, we aren't really here to be in competitive leagues (well, i'm not, i dont think I'm that good).
[DotA] Replays~!! - Page 24
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
Also, some of us prefer different play styles (a good example is that i lane more with sven than i gank, even though he is a ganking hero. Then with my dazzle i prefer to go dps than mek/skadi (which i also can do, i just like ac/deso more)). While they aren't the best way to play those heroes, we aren't really here to be in competitive leagues (well, i'm not, i dont think I'm that good). | ||
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
Also to point out, the people communicating and giving out the advice should not be so harsh ether. you know who you are. Negative comments never need to leave the mouth or typed, it's the persons choice to say it. There is no point in screaming at a beginner, no need to cuss at him/her, no need to call them noobs (unless jokingly of course, but both sides need to know that), and no need to say anything further than constructive criticism. It goes both ways, the beginner must choose to open up their minds and accept what other people are saying, or if they are wrong and say it back in a mannerly fashion. And the person giving out the advice must choose their words. There's a lot of lack of respect for players floating around. Everyone must realize not everyone is of the same skill level, but you have to deal with it sometimes. But hosters sometimes, seriously, if it's completely imbalanced from an -SP, just remake, there's honestly no point in wasting time and destroying the other team. Admit it, some of you guys just want to utterly stomp the other if you're on the imbalanced team. If it's like Heen, IefNaij, Ryugie, Shinbi and like Zizou versus any other combination of players in TL, and they want to call a remake for more balanced teams, just give it to them. This is what I think TL needs to work on, as a person watching from the sidelines and been in the games. Not in any particular order: 1) Respect for each other as fellow players 2) Less Flaming 3) Deflate many of your E-Peens and egos, please it's the internet and it's a team game. I think after these 3, the game play will be able to be much more fun 4) More constructive criticism 5) Evening the teams This will actually begin the flow of improvement, as you need decently fair teams with a balanced amount of non-experienced to experienced players to actually give good advice. Not only that, it's a better learning experienced with a closer match. 6) Realize that winning isn't the most important thing in the world 7) Realize getting the best score isn't the most important thing in the world 8) Communicating with one another and not play single player 9) Don't get greedy 10) Pick decent heroes, pick decent lane match ups and play your role to an extent. If TL improves on all 10 of these, I'm quite certain that they'd ascend from pub status to at least HLR1. Maybe even some of the players will transcend from pubs all together and reach the competitive scene, who knows? Even if TL wont do everything here, I'd just like to see more respect passed around, besides, no one here is really that much better than anyone else. Excluding like, Fag or like, you know, me. =) ROFL! | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On April 20 2008 11:36 [TYG]Transcend wrote:Not in any particular order: 1) Respect for each other as fellow players 2) Less Flaming 3) Deflate many of your E-Peens and egos, please it's the internet and it's a team game. I think after these 3, the game play will be able to be much more fun 4) More constructive criticism 5) Evening the teams This will actually begin the flow of improvement, as you need decently fair teams with a balanced amount of non-experienced to experienced players to actually give good advice. Not only that, it's a better learning experienced with a closer match. 6) Realize that winning isn't the most important thing in the world 7) Realize getting the best score isn't the most important thing in the world 8) Communicating with one another and not play single player 9) Don't get greedy 10) Pick decent heroes, pick decent lane match ups and play your role to an extent. If TL improves on all 10 of these, I'm quite certain that they'd ascend from pub status to at least HLR1. Maybe even some of the players will transcend from pubs all together and reach the competitive scene, who knows? Even if TL wont do everything here, I'd just like to see more respect passed around, besides, no one here is really that much better than anyone else. Excluding like, Fag or like, you know, me. =) ROFL! I'd like to emphasize this that means GET ON VENT EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE A MIC (cough) I should be back tomorrow methinks. This paper was less difficult than I expected. Proofing/formatting it now ^_^; | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
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paper
13196 Posts
they don't fucking listen and not ganking follows | ||
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{ToT}Strafe
Thailand7026 Posts
On April 20 2008 11:36 [TYG]Transcend wrote: The problem is some people here don't want to listen at all, while others do. Everyone in TL, excluding like 3 players, are still beginners and/or have not played anything competitively or above pub level. How do beginners learn? By listening and communicating, but some people refuse to acknowledge that. Also to point out, the people communicating and giving out the advice should not be so harsh ether. you know who you are. Negative comments never need to leave the mouth or typed, it's the persons choice to say it. There is no point in screaming at a beginner, no need to cuss at him/her, no need to call them noobs (unless jokingly of course, but both sides need to know that), and no need to say anything further than constructive criticism. It goes both ways, the beginner must choose to open up their minds and accept what other people are saying, or if they are wrong and say it back in a mannerly fashion. And the person giving out the advice must choose their words. There's a lot of lack of respect for players floating around. Everyone must realize not everyone is of the same skill level, but you have to deal with it sometimes. But hosters sometimes, seriously, if it's completely imbalanced from an -SP, just remake, there's honestly no point in wasting time and destroying the other team. Admit it, some of you guys just want to utterly stomp the other if you're on the imbalanced team. If it's like Heen, IefNaij, Ryugie, Shinbi and like Zizou versus any other combination of players in TL, and they want to call a remake for more balanced teams, just give it to them. This is what I think TL needs to work on, as a person watching from the sidelines and been in the games. Not in any particular order: 1) Respect for each other as fellow players 2) Less Flaming 3) Deflate many of your E-Peens and egos, please it's the internet and it's a team game. I think after these 3, the game play will be able to be much more fun 4) More constructive criticism 5) Evening the teams This will actually begin the flow of improvement, as you need decently fair teams with a balanced amount of non-experienced to experienced players to actually give good advice. Not only that, it's a better learning experienced with a closer match. 6) Realize that winning isn't the most important thing in the world 7) Realize getting the best score isn't the most important thing in the world 8) Communicating with one another and not play single player 9) Don't get greedy 10) Pick decent heroes, pick decent lane match ups and play your role to an extent. If TL improves on all 10 of these, I'm quite certain that they'd ascend from pub status to at least HLR1. Maybe even some of the players will transcend from pubs all together and reach the competitive scene, who knows? Even if TL wont do everything here, I'd just like to see more respect passed around, besides, no one here is really that much better than anyone else. Excluding like, Fag or like, you know, me. =) ROFL! fuck this post. drop ur epenis on ze table and flame on | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4844 Posts
I don't consider myself to be good, more like sub-par. I'd say my mechanics are in the upper level of mediocrity (I could compete with most TLnetters on a lane, except heen, he's a monster  ), my map-awareness is sub-par, and my micro needs work. I can't properly manage exceptiponally spell-heavy characters too well (Atropos, Rexxar) and if I focus on getting their spells right, at the right time I end up loosing map-awareness.I guess what I need to play in order to improve (since I feel I haven't really been improving a lot lately, except for getting the feel of start item builds and even better last hitting) is some CW-like games - where not everyone is a gosu, but everyone listens, helps out, and isn't content farming  I'm not a good type of a leader, I don't consider myself to be the canditate to lead a team, but I do consider myself pretty good listener. I still think that a cooperation of 5, even if they're inexperienced and mechanically weaker, can take on 5 better players who don't play as a team, even if their CS / levels / heroes are better. That's what I miss off TL games, but you gotta understand: some aren't (not yet) capable of this. If I may cite my own example: there were countless times where my friend was telling me what to do, yet I couldn't, even tho I tried to listen - I didn't know what he exactly meant, I didn't understand, I lacked the practice to perform it, etc. But as you have already said, the newer players have to have open-mindedness - even when we're cussing, cause we also know it's not that serious, we just want them to improve - and that's what they want too, afterall What I think would be helpful is to always select 2 team captains, who are well-respected for the skills throughout TL DotA, and they would be responsible acting as one: telling what to do, who to help, when / where to gank, when to buy / put wards. Usually there's someone in both teams taking up this role, but sometimes it doesn't help, because they're not respected well enough / use bad wording (like me). I'd say Iefnaij / Testie / Heen / bdares / Scoopa etc. would be suited for this ,if they don't get discouraged that sometimes, the team just would not listen (we're not playing the MYM pride afterall )I'd also suggest (if you can stand it ) to watch a few top replays, not only to improve on popular picks / lane lineups (which is pretty basic nowadays, I'd say), but to check out how they pick fights, how they gank, and how - sometimes, thanks to very fast reactions / TP scrolls / baiting - does a successful-looking gank turn into a countergank massacre.When I watch a replay, I try to analyze every hero kill - what led to it, how did they execute their spells, why, where did the victim screw it up, was there something else he could do / others to help. If you do this like 5 times(a lifetime ), you've already learned a lot. | ||
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{ToT}Strafe
Thailand7026 Posts
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
Overall, Heen's a decent player, I've seen him play both Carry and Support and he does quite well with it. I've never actually played on a team with him, so I don't know how he communicates with the team. JF has that carry potential because he's been playing DotA for awhile now, he has like a year experience on most of the TLers here. But I don't think JF is the type to tell people what to do. =P Testie's knowledge of the game is not to par with JF or Heen's, but I like his attitute towards helping his team mates and his manner when it comes to advice. Evidently, I only bash Testie for fun and to have that small drive to prove me wrong and get better, plus it's a awesome lulz when everyone on vent hear me call out what Testie says. BDares is above the average TL player as well, but he doesn't really communicate enough with the team to actually lead. Supa should not lead. Not bashing you or anything, but he does not quite communicate in a manner that would be constructive in some ways. Supa is probably above the average TL, but not by that much compared to like Ryugie or Shinbi or Alven. A leader has to know the situation, analyze it and also communicate it. So you need to know the game but also have the ability to communicate it properly. Not everyone has the skills to lead, and many people do not want to lead. I'd like to see JLIG and BigBlind to sometimes just hop in and give up some advice to just help the overall TL play improve so JF and Testie don't always dominate with their carry style play. IMO good leaders would be: Ryugie: He knows the game fairly well, is pretty decent, and can make jokes. He can communicate in a way where it's constructive and everyone could benefit from it, he just chooses to get angry sometimes. Ryugie is definitely a candidate for a leader when he is online. Shinbi: To a lesser extent. He knows how to play, but like Supa, does not really communicate it properly, just needs to choose his words unlike Supa, which I have never really seen him be constructive in. Testie: Knows a fair amount the game, probably not as much as Ryugie, but I like his dameaner and how he communicates with the team. Could use a little more farming though, IMO. Heen: Only based on his superior sklls compared to most of his fellow TL, never played with him to know. Those are the people that stand out when I think of TL. JF is too lazy to care about other people, he'll just farm and own. Supa needs to clean up his attitude. SJ needs to stop stealing the carries creeps. Cats needs to realize some people have 4 seconds delay and not continue the game. Alven is okay, but doesn't really have the mindset to be a leader, lazy. Devaz, I don't think I've even played with him yet, but if I did nothing stood out so yeah, he is okay. It goes without saying for the less experienced to know your place and not try to assume a leader role. I wont call out names here. It's also good because Testie/Ryugie/Shinbi are like always online, not so much Heen though. | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
IMO WE NEED TO PLAY THAT 2V2 SOON. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
I would consider Bdares to be the 2nd best leader (or possibly heen's level on leadership) because he can definitely organize a team, and will buy wards and play his role extremely well within the team. While he is not Heen in skill-level, he is definitely the cause for his team winning a very good amount with doing well early in the lane & last hitting very well / and buying wards constantly yet still having enough money to buy items to be very effective. Bdares has the ability to make the weaker team stronger. JF would be third if he chose to talk more and organize more. He pretty much always plays any role to perfection as well. He's insanely skilled as it is though and organizes a fair amount as he just does his own thing destroying people and whenever he + an ally will be near I suspect he pings and tells them to gank what he's pinging. A leader doesn't shout at his allies and berate them. Thus disqualifying most other candidates imo. Supa / Shinbz / Ryugie would spend more time arguing about who's fault the gank failed thus weakening the team. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On April 20 2008 13:09 {ToT}Strafe wrote: fuck this post. drop ur epenis on ze table and flame on I rofl'd Nevake, keep playing with us. Just don't disconnect or i'll cut your balls off. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
On April 21 2008 03:31 [TYG]Transcend wrote: You are lazy, plus in a previous post you don't play serious anyways. If you're not serious don't help the beginners. IMO WE NEED TO PLAY THAT 2V2 SOON. Just because i am not a serious player does not mean i dont know the mechanics of the game to teach to newer players. That is a huge misconception, I may play for fun, but I do know a decent amount about the game and if people are really new (like nevake for example), I do help them out. I lane with him the other day and was giving him some pointers on what to do in lane, while trying to keep him alive so he had money to buy the correct items for his hero. While I am not a person who tells you step by step what to do for every part of the game, I do give advice and its not completely worthless. ps. lazy =/= not serious. and i agree another 2v2 would be nice, although i improved my wd score to 21-0 yesterday ^^ | ||
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
I've never seen you talk, not to mention give advice =P Even in vent while we were laning to battle the Evilz of Shinbi and Supa you didn't talk much. I also never said you didn't know the mechanics. =o DON'T ASSUME. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
On April 21 2008 03:35 MYM.Testie wrote: Heen is by far the best out of us in all areas imo. Whatever role he chooses to play, he simply does it better. He does not just have the best of us with those crazy skills of his, he is also the best leader as well when he wishes to be and has the best attitude. I would consider Bdares to be the 2nd best leader (or possibly heen's level on leadership) because he can definitely organize a team, and will buy wards and play his role extremely well within the team. While he is not Heen in skill-level, he is definitely the cause for his team winning a very good amount with doing well early in the lane & last hitting very well / and buying wards constantly yet still having enough money to buy items to be very effective. Bdares has the ability to make the weaker team stronger. JF would be third if he chose to talk more and organize more. He pretty much always plays any role to perfection as well. He's insanely skilled as it is though and organizes a fair amount as he just does his own thing destroying people and whenever he + an ally will be near I suspect he pings and tells them to gank what he's pinging. A leader doesn't shout at his allies and berate them. Thus disqualifying most other candidates imo. Supa / Shinbz / Ryugie would spend more time arguing about who's fault the gank failed thus weakening the team. noobs who ignorantly get by with their idiotic strats/builds will continue to do so after leaving the umbrella of someone exponentially skillful who wins the game for them. true, disparaging them isn't efficient, but, honestly, what kind of parent doesn't raise a kid by being stern? if you watch any of my reps, i don't immediately berate them unless i've told them at least a couple times and they keep fucking doing the same shit. well-deserved imo. | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
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paper
13196 Posts
also, honestly, i've seen everyone rage at some point or another and the only reason i get shit for it is because i don't give a shit about hiding it. imo, it's pretty fucking unbelievable what some TL-ers do in some situations. should i just fucking solo every game? because every time i lane with someone who doesn't listen, i repeatedly die because i can't rely on them for something ridiculously simple. oh, and why the fuck is everyone so obsessed with farming? i know i bring it up too many times but, seriously, you lose your fucking items after the game is over and you wasted 60 minutes of my fucking time so you could enjoy 1 minute of attack moving (TL-ers not knowing how to actively gank has a huge part in this, too). another thing is mechanics. can TL-ers fucking read the skill descriptions? honestly, does it take much effort to imagine how you can use the skill in situation X? i think this is why i haven't been trying at all in the past few months and just fucking around, which apparently doesn't work because everyone farms and we all die. | ||
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