EPTWhat I think it sucks is people who think they are good and insult (in different ways) other players.
[DotA] Replays~!! - Page 26
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32277 Posts
What I think it sucks is people who think they are good and insult (in different ways) other players. | ||
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
On April 21 2008 10:33 Ack1027 wrote: Are you scoopa by chance? If not, I can't remember playing with you[your nickname]. Anyway I appreciate the compliment. Even if you weren't scoopa all the games that TLnetters have played with myself and friends has been really fun/smooth/fast games. I guess since everyone is being brutally honest here's what I'll offer about the whole leadership issue. There is definitely room [ AND A POOL ] of players from TL dota that could actually do pretty good in low to medium level leagues. Cal-o to im or even htgn-open etc. From what I can tell those players are Testie, Lefnaij, Scoopa, Ryugie, Paper, Zizou, Shinbi[ I might've mixed you up here since I'm not sure on names ] I excluded Heen because he has his own team, and to be frank, I think it would be pretty stupid to ask Heen to lead TL dota games when he has his own team to be a part of. The reason I play few TL games is mainly because I play tda with friends aka former league-level teammates. That's the biggest reason, but the other reason is because half of the TL dota players reply with ' I just play for fun ' whenever anyone triles to help, pulls an rpf by acting insulted when offered advice[or doesn't listen and asks more pointless questions], or they honestly want to get good, but simply cannot in TLnet's inhouse environment. The games I have played with TL [ probably around 5-10 ] I usually never say anything because I know I'm playing with people who ' play for fun ' so I never ask anyone to buy wards, if I see that we need them I buy them on my own. I never say who to target, or when we should gank, or when runes are up. I just play to game with some people I know through a forum. To be honest, lots of players in TL dota dick-ride Testie and are all over people's nuts. That shit never really flew with me simply because: A) Nobody but Heen and the one game I saw of Lefnaij is *good* at dota from TLnet games B) People rage, even though they know they are playing with people who suck/don't care. C) I don't like Testie anyway as a person because he hacked in the past. Still what he did in bw is respectable. From my personal experience, like I said before, I taught all my friends irl and those I knew only from vent how to play dota from scratch. We played -apem pubs forever, got to know all the heroes, skills, orbs etc and I taught them basic teamwork. I don't see myself as a cocky person, in fact I prefer to play with friends and lose thousands of games than play with strangers and win many times [ another reason why I don't *prefer* playing with TLnet dota ] My teammates put trust in me when we started playing leagues and without ever really deciding it, I became the unspoken leader. People questioned me every single game, what item to get, what skills to get. But that was it, one answer and my teammates accepted it because I was able to play every role, carry, support, gank, everything. They didn't [again] pull an rpf and question the clearly more experienced player or ask for additional explanations. One time per hero, one explanation, that's all you need, everyone starts off as a newb. Anyway, I'm pretty proud to where it led right up to the day we quit playing seriously. For all the time you guys spend on this game, you guys could really make an organized effort and do pretty well in some lower-mid level leagues imo. DotA is really a game that integrates a lot of people's time. The last things I want to say are: 1. Don't think because you're part of the TLnet community, that some how makes you more gm or good manner towards others. There's lots of people on TLnet who need a reality check. If you're playing with people you know from a site like ours, then play being considerate of other people's time. If they want to play a serious game cuz they are tired of losing EVERY time, and you know you ' just play for fun ' don't play in that game with them. Sit one out. 2. DotA isn't about winning, it's about improving. As long as you improve, win or lose, you will have fun in the end. You shouldn't settle for mediocrity and only play for fun from the get-go. When you start losing games and you *know* 100% that you did all you could that game, losing won't even matter. What will matter is that even though your team was stacked against, or you had one pubber who sucked and lost it for you it will be comforting to know that you and the rest of your teammates did everything you could and still pulled off some sick stuff. this was probably about 2-3 weeks ago you were witch doctor with a triple kill my dota sn is spydee06 but i've definitely payed hour long games where one guy will just do something inane, like get lots of the same item or farm for 50 minutes. and yeah, people hardly ever dispense advice as far as I can tell >_< regardless of how good or bad you are individually, dota's a lot less fun if your team doesn't play like a team. certain players are a lot better about being team players than others, and it just sucks to be on the team that doesn't communicate. | ||
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
Back to planning my week. Oh and IHCS is the pinnacle of DotA, besides like what, Prime Nations and Pride? | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4861 Posts
 It would have been fun, for sure. Also, I'm very interested in that 2v2 / 5v5 tourney. Been a while since I played 2v2, but I liked it  | ||
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Chewits
Northern Ireland1200 Posts
Well be grateful if anyone can give some tips on my post page before which got ignored Talking of a tournament, i take it it will be only GGC? *crys* I play on mac, and play with friends that host with DC. Which is really quite nice. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
mym.com, ggtv, d-a.com, etc. | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
it honestly doesn't take too much to get better, yuo just have to be willing to get past your self-pride to take advice from better players, even if what they say to you can come a bit harsh and offensive. like i didn't get better until i massed DXD games (although a lot of players there are bnet pubbies, some games you get into, especially captain games, can have really good players in them. when someone gives you advice don't blow it off, just try to learn from it (but only take advice from the good players with credibility. in TL.net forums examples of such people would be ack, judicator, bb, etc..) even when i got into dxdi i had so much to learn, especially since i was playing with better people then. i would get flamed sometimes by some well knwon players for doing something stupid, but that's okay because i'll just learn off of it next time. currently im playing for a uswest korean clan right now, many long time dota players, we scrim and ih a lot and we're currently dominating most of our scrims, espcially against other uswest korean clans. not too long ago we scrimmed against some dxd players (a lot of the mods, admins) which consisted of many vTs players and beat them pretty badly. i think we're joining the next cal season and im pretty sure we can get into cal-i within the next two cal seasons. if you're truly wanting to get better, you just have to put yourself into the gaming environment where there will be either 1) better players than yuo and/or 2) people just like you who are playing seriously to get better. playing with people constantly that don't try and just "play to have fun" won't really help you much. you'll know your team is atleast decent when you don't have to be telling them what to do all the time, they'll just play well on their own because they'll know what to do for every given situation and they'll know how to play their roles and not go dagon on every fucking hero lawll | ||
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{ToT}Strafe
Thailand7026 Posts
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On April 21 2008 07:25 Chewits wrote:Lets try and rescue this thread a bit, to what its creation was for. Right I just played a clan game here for Pick Leauge. We lost both games. I am posting the 2nd game because I want constructive criticism on it. Download here - http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/38587/index.html - I want your help to help me, and my team improve. I want you to give constructive criticism on game play. For example, did Centaur not "tank" enough? Sentinel (my team): Sven + Lina - Bot Centaur + Storm Spirit - Top Zeus - Mid Scourge: NA + Bane - Bot Warlock + Void - Top Puck - Mid On April 21 2008 07:25 Chewits wrote:I remember cursing a bit, cuz we didn't ban NA, when we really should have, because we were 3 INT. I think Sentinel bans were Magnus, Beastmaster, Silencer. They banned Sandking, Tiny and I cant remember their 3rd ban, sorry. We decided to gamble with no AGI, and really be aggressive. Was this a careless move? I mean storm can almost be an AGI hero with his electric rave? Not banning NA wasn't as big as you think. My team went through a period like that as well. What did suck for you though, was the fact that your items were really bad. Every single player on your team had less than best starting items and it hurt your lanes. Zeus solo got tangoes and a ring of protection. Yes, it's good to get arcane on Zeus, it's pretty much a must, but there's no point in getting it as one of your first items because all it does is add armor, and armor does absolutely nothing early when you're zeus. 2 armor for 175gold that can be spent on tango/clarity, think about it. Centaur bought decent items, if he were to jungle. I don't know if he didn't know how to jungle [ he did later at 10 mins which is much too late ] or what, but you should've had him jungling from the get go, especially with NA+Bane at bottom lane so even with mana burn and sleep you could still 3 man gank them. When Centaur left top lane, he fucked over your Storm because he was just then solo'ing which allowed the void to freefarm and the warlock to get last hits and heal void. He was simply too far behind in level. Also, your lina should not be the one to buy chicken in that scenario. Either Zeus [ yes even as solo, because it should've been a jungle dual solo lineup ] or centaur should've bought it. On April 21 2008 07:25 Chewits wrote:So on to the game. After fucking up the first game we really want to fuck these guys up. We started off very aggressive, with Sven ganging alot. Started off well, gangs were good. Then we made some mistakes. So heres my thoughts. First mistake. Centaur decides to go neutral in forest. He didnt announce this, just did it. Was he being tank enough throughout game? I'd say you did gang a lot, too much in fact, but you didn't gang early enough. Your first gank was at 10 minutes, a early gank should've been way before 10 min mark. Again, would've been much easier to gank if Centaur jungled from the start so he'd only have to walk a short distance to help bot lane. Also, nobody even checked runes up until 12 mins. Your sven got a bottle, your lina should've gotten bottle too but anyway you kinda screwed yourselves by not checking runes. The other team didn't do that good of a job either. Another thing that is a very common mistake against NA that your lina and sven did was they did not start the lane off from the get-go with stuns. If you're in a lane with NA it's guaranteed he went mana burn, so why wait for him to burn you. Don't even bother with creeps and go straight for the kill. Let sven or lina flank from the forest and the other attack straight on with the first creep wave. This is sven+lina's biggest strength and I think people forget it. Granted, you won't kill NA but he will be very low making him play defensive, and most bane's get sap first over sleep. There is simply no point in waiting for NA to take all your mana. Also sven+lina was your strongest lane, by lina buying the chicken she had shit for items and no mana in addition to that. On April 21 2008 07:25 Chewits wrote:21minutes we have taken 3 towers down. Should we have pushed this hard so early on? Sround 30 minutes, I felt we just lost momentum. Everytime we tried to gang they always were not their or get out in time. After watching replay, it is because of wards. What's a good time to buy sentrys to kill wards in river? I guess at that mark we should have thought of it b4 ganging their forest. 40minutes - fucked up majorily. What went wrong? Took top tower 49 minutes, then got ganged top. Now here was a situation where some of us said go and some said back. THis leads me on to question. When it comes to leadership of a team, should there be one person that makes all the calls and everyone else should obey them no matter what? See, yea this makes sense, but at same time, I cant make all the calls cuz I cant see everything. I guess that is what makes a good player in team, the ability to be able to make the right move. In my honest opinion, you guys really had this game won up until the team fight in mid at around 23 mins. With a team like yours, against a team like theirs [ aka with a void and warlock ] you have to initiate first every time and take out one of those heroes. If you watch the teamfight at 23 in mid you'll see you got fucked cuz they initiated first. Because you went around 3-4 man ganking for about 5-8 mins prior to this fight, your sven+lina+centaur were lower level than they could've been. Your centaur had blink at this point but he backed off because I guess from his perspective it looked like you guys weren't close enough to back up his blink stun initiate. This can easily be fixed by vent communication, but your team needs to recognize who to target. You should buy sentries, as soon as you know they have wards of any kind and you have the money. Anyone should buy them because simply it helps your whole team, it's like the equivalent of taking down a tower for map control. As for the leadership thing, it helps to have one in-game leader, but also be somewhat democratic. If most of your team says back, and you wanna go in, just call back [UNLESS YOU ARE THE STR INITATOR, in this case centaur ] because if your team is already in the mindset of backing, you're only fucking yourself by forcing a fight, when the other 5 people are ready to own you. I have a lot of experience being the in-game leader in a lot of games, not just dota, but that's generally what I do. Whenever there is dead time, I explain stuff like who to target in future team fights, where runes are, who's missing, splitting up the farming I.E. if nobody is jungling, ask one of your guys to go jungle and then split up the lanes so it's not 3 people sapping up exp in one lane. As for the other thing, if you build up map sense [imo one of the most important things in dota] you should be able to be a really good leader. Sometimes you sacrifice last hitting for this, but it really only takes 2-3 seconds of looking at the mini-map now and then to tell what's going on. Exp from playing lots of scrim type games also gives you good game sense, it's easy to learn in DotA. In my team, I call all the team fights, even if I'm not the str initator/other initiator because it gives my team confidence to know I'm right behind them ready to go in. I sort've yell confidently in vent saying ' Go now go now ' or ' fight fight ' so they know what to do. If it's not a huge team fight, it's usually up to the discretion of your players. As a ingame leader its your job to keep your team focused[dota is pretty long sometimes], and goal oriented. Aim for towers, grab runes, gank their carries, make sure you have enough disables for late game if you don't have agi heroes of your own. On April 21 2008 07:25 Chewits wrote:Anyway, I don't want to point blame at anyone at my team or anything, I just want some help, improving our teamplay. As I watch teh replay and looking at the line up, i think we lost by not banning NA. On another note, i find when being Leader, I have to spend more time watching what is going on than my own game. I dont concentrate as much on farming etc, I concentrate more on map control and such. Sometimes I find this puts me behind. Does that make sense? Answered above. Anyway, it will come with time and experience. But know this, map sense and learning how to control it for your team is more beneficial than last hitting everything, especially if you're not the carry. In fact, you could even work it out so you play a support/gank type hero and you have more time to watch the map, and another of your players can focus primarily on last hitting everything =) Anyway, it was fun watching the rep, reminded me a lot of how my early teams used to be. You guys have potential to do good, you recognize what you need to do, you just need more practice and thinking involved. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
I lost their vent, but I used to ring for them a lot and they asked me to join when I disbanded my team. Keep it up! | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
im really glad a good player is in tl.net that posts good indepth advice for people that need it and a lot of times i learn a whole bunch from the long content-rich posts you make ive been doing pretty bad the last 2 quarters so im taking a break from dota until the summer, ill just play "for fun" whenever i can until summer hits =] | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On April 22 2008 00:19 BlueRoyaL wrote: yeah, if you guys want good advice and tips you just needa start reading on sites and forums dedicated solely for that. a lot of good players post on forums like d-a and you can learn a lot from there, not to mention d-a probably has the most organized competitive dota section (this has already been mentioned also) and you can get all the latest replays from basically every current league from there. it honestly doesn't take too much to get better, yuo just have to be willing to get past your self-pride to take advice from better players, even if what they say to you can come a bit harsh and offensive. like i didn't get better until i massed DXD games (although a lot of players there are bnet pubbies, some games you get into, especially captain games, can have really good players in them. when someone gives you advice don't blow it off, just try to learn from it (but only take advice from the good players with credibility. in TL.net forums examples of such people would be ack, judicator, bb, etc..) even when i got into dxdi i had so much to learn, especially since i was playing with better people then. i would get flamed sometimes by some well knwon players for doing something stupid, but that's okay because i'll just learn off of it next time. currently im playing for a uswest korean clan right now, many long time dota players, we scrim and ih a lot and we're currently dominating most of our scrims, espcially against other uswest korean clans. not too long ago we scrimmed against some dxd players (a lot of the mods, admins) which consisted of many vTs players and beat them pretty badly. i think we're joining the next cal season and im pretty sure we can get into cal-i within the next two cal seasons. if you're truly wanting to get better, you just have to put yourself into the gaming environment where there will be either 1) better players than yuo and/or 2) people just like you who are playing seriously to get better. playing with people constantly that don't try and just "play to have fun" won't really help you much. you'll know your team is atleast decent when you don't have to be telling them what to do all the time, they'll just play well on their own because they'll know what to do for every given situation and they'll know how to play their roles and not go dagon on every fucking hero lawll Good advice, kinda similar to starcraft. My only question is the Chinese people I play with play differently than foreigners so I don't know how much of foreign strategy I should follow. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
http://www.gg-game.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=175144&extra=page=1 What would you say the skill level is relative to European/American competition? Also, there have been a lot of recent SK replays, they got dominated by VP and also lost a couple times to Russian mixes. Is the skill level between Russia and the rest of the world that apparent or did SK play bad or something. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
VP, nobody is on their level, you have two solid carries/solos, jolie is damn good leader, ns and blow play aggressive supports. They have a lot of versatility in players and that matters a hell of a lot when picking against other top teams like MYM, SK etc. Playing with Russians in general on GGC, they all fucking play the same, hit 6 and then the roaming gank death squad of doom in mid game. Map control, tower control, rune control, they maintain that aspect of the game better than any other team. eh, they have no idea how to play lanes? Their early game was pretty atrocious, PotM had about 3 chances to FB Lina with a proper arrow, ward or not. Then Lesh/Slard losing to Skel/THD is el o el, Skel can't cover THD early due to mana issues so go offensive once, then the second time they should be able to get the THD, instead the elected to go for the Skel (dumb imo). The other team should have laned the BB with QoP or PotM instead of QoP/PotM, only reason it worked because scourge couldn't break out of the side lanes to make life hard for mid. But the potm, wow couldn't hit an arrow to save his life, even my atrocious potm is better than that. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On April 22 2008 04:08 zulu_nation8 wrote: Two questions, Ack/Judicator/BB, I don't know how much you can tell from one replay but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this game: http://www.gg-game.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=175144&extra=page=1 What would you say the skill level is relative to European/American competition? Also, there have been a lot of recent SK replays, they got dominated by VP and also lost a couple times to Russian mixes. Is the skill level between Russia and the rest of the world that apparent or did SK play bad or something. This was a pretty sick replay. Tbh, I think a lot of the top top team games are determined by picks and bans, and who makes the fewest mistakes, not the smartest decisions. Granted, some are good like for example in this game having slardar was a pretty decent choice cuz they were up against BB. I think either of these teams could take a game from MYM's american lineup [ with ezy and fear ] or SK on a good day. They were pretty coordinated and all played their roles pretty well except for the PotM early on who kinda messed things up. The whole chain of team fights at top around 20 mins was really fun to watch. Team chemistry is probably the 2nd most important thing after picks and bans in the highest level of play imo, and I think SK can't pull off big wins without Loda, their real leader. I think the success of VP comes from the fact that they are the most versatile group of players in the world, and are able to play every single role incredibly well. If you saw my post earlier about roles in the game, which are over 10 if you really get down to it, all the VP players are fucking ridiculous. They hardly ever make mistakes, and nowadays VP losses are generally only to teams who win in picks/bans. Basically at mid-high level teams I think the greatest strength is having 5 people on a team able to play every single role, or at least 3 players who can and 2 who are really good at a specific role. If you look at MYM it's a prime example of that. Maelk can solo and play weird heroes AND he's the ingame leader with good sense and good pick/bans USUALLY. Merlini is ridiculous at jungling and pulling off shit that should happen like 3v1's and their other players have good support. I think MYM can't overcome VP though because VP is able to field the best of the best, aka Vigoss, NS, LightOfHeaven. Russia simply has the best pool, and I don't know if you can attribute this to the level of play from VP and SP or not. If I had to list the best players in the world, the top 5 without a doubt would be: Vigoss, LightOfHeaven, FocusIRE, Jolie, NS/Admir tie. That's in no particular order, this is not even mentioning the other incredible players from Russia. They mastered the current meta-game first, and were able to field the most players who were the best at what they do. | ||
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
For those that want to join a team, I will be forming one for TL with an old team mate of mine, for more information join the Let's Play thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=110&topic_id=64016 Not everyone has the privilege to play with Vicious. =P! | ||
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