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Manit0u
Poland17665 Posts
On October 02 2025 20:15 Doublemint wrote: liked the single player campaigns immensely. the universe is hilariously silly and good fun. Well, StarCraft was supposedly meant to be set in this universe but they couldn't make the deal on the IP. | ||
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Miragee
8639 Posts
On October 02 2025 07:59 Kaw wrote: They had an AMA on their discord. Copying the Realms of Ruin melee lock mechanic is certainly a choice. Please tell me I'm misreading this. They will just add a retreat mechanic again. You press a button and your units run to your base.  On October 02 2025 21:11 Manit0u wrote: Well, StarCraft was supposedly meant to be set in this universe but they couldn't make the deal on the IP. Which is why Blizzard just copied 3 of the races, lol. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5755 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8708 Posts
On October 02 2025 21:11 Manit0u wrote: Well, StarCraft was supposedly meant to be set in this universe but they couldn't make the deal on the IP. that's something I had no idea about. thank god it turned out the way it did lol, SC seems way more "grounded" though similarities are undeniable. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17665 Posts
On October 03 2025 02:59 Doublemint wrote: that's something I had no idea about. thank god it turned out the way it did lol, SC seems way more "grounded" though similarities are undeniable. It's just a rumour though. Blizzard will of course deny it for legal reasons etc. but both Warcraft and Starcraft were pretty heavily inspired by Warhammer and Warhammer 40K respectively. Andy Chambers (one of the key figures in Games Wokshop responsible for a lot of lore and game design) was even working as a consultant for StarCraft 2. I think it's just an urban legend at this point - WarCraft for sure was supposed to be Warhammer seeing how their design for orcs is pretty much 1-1 with WH orcs. If StarCraft was actually going to be set in 40k we'll never know but influences are clearly there. Sure, protoss/eldar is a bit of a stretch but the design on some units like the Phoenix is clearly Eldar and the general vibe of ancient space-faring race with psychic powers as well as housing the spirits of their deceased in constructs (Dragoons) is all there. ![[image loading]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/1f/40/2d1f40670459fb0ff39c6866453a94b7.jpg) Eldar ships for comparison. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7088 Posts
On October 03 2025 21:43 Manit0u wrote: It's just a rumour though. Blizzard will of course deny it for legal reasons etc. but both Warcraft and Starcraft were pretty heavily inspired by Warhammer and Warhammer 40K respectively. Andy Chambers (one of the key figures in Games Wokshop responsible for a lot of lore and game design) was even working as a consultant for StarCraft 2. I think it's just an urban legend at this point - WarCraft for sure was supposed to be Warhammer seeing how their design for orcs is pretty much 1-1 with WH orcs. If StarCraft was actually going to be set in 40k we'll never know but influences are clearly there. Sure, protoss/eldar is a bit of a stretch but the design on some units like the Phoenix is clearly Eldar and the general vibe of ancient space-faring race with psychic powers as well as housing the spirits of their deceased in constructs (Dragoons) is all there. Eldar ships for comparison. That's not Starcraft 2 through. That is Starcraft 1. The Scout is 1:1 Eldar ship | ||
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Miragee
8639 Posts
On October 06 2025 18:43 Harris1st wrote: That's not Starcraft 2 through. That is Starcraft 1. The Scout is 1:1 Eldar ship I know the post was a bit confusing because it conflated SC2 with SC but I assumed the original SC was already supposed to be set in W40k or heavily borrowed from it for obvious reasons. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17665 Posts
On October 06 2025 23:05 Miragee wrote: I know the post was a bit confusing because it conflated SC2 with SC but I assumed the original SC was already supposed to be set in W40k or heavily borrowed from it for obvious reasons. Well, both of them have some influences (regarding Protoss/Eldar). Warp Prism seems extremely Eldar-like and SC2 Phoenix is very much an Eldar fighter jet... ![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/8/8a/SC2Phoenix.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://static0.thegamerimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/aeldari-air-units.jpg) | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4235 Posts
Will see when it's finally out though. Not giving in to the hype just yet  | ||
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Joni_
Germany355 Posts
I stumbled into Dawn of War 1 when Dark Crusade was the current expansion and I gotta say I enjoyed it tremendously. The way they got rid of the base building components in dow2 wasn't really my thing, though, so I didnt check out any of the later titles. I always was pretty annoyed by how obfuscated real information about units' values etc was in that game (i.e. what unit types there are and how much damage which unit'weapon actually does against which unit type etc). The game certianly felt way less figured out than any other rts ive ever actively played, though, but probably that is just due to lower level of play in general. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10852 Posts
But it was a better "Warhammer-RTS" with it's expansions. I remember vividly how I hated the dumbing down/streamlining with the first Addon (that I didn't care for any of the new factions/races certainly didn't help) :D. DoW 2 wasn't my cake, it was good for what it was but well... Not for me. DoW 3... We don't talk about Dow 3 :D | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17665 Posts
DoW2 put way more emphasis on more tactical aspect of the game and made everything just look and feel better. And lategame battles with the big units and all the abilities look so cool... I'm watching casts with commentary of DoW2 games to this day. There was a surge in DoW1 casts recently with the remastered version but they're not as enjoyable to watch IMO. | ||
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Joni_
Germany355 Posts
On October 17 2025 00:35 Manit0u wrote: I'm surprised so many people here are not fond of DoW2. For me it was better than DoW1. Base building being gone isn't much of an issue since you barely had any base building in DoW1 to begin with (most multiplayer games barely required you to go past 5-6 buildings in your base, excluding the listening posts). DoW2 put way more emphasis on more tactical aspect of the game and made everything just look and feel better. And lategame battles with the big units and all the abilities look so cool... https://youtu.be/WOQjQYEorlU?si=k2G18dUizq8Qbdtf&t=1491 I'm watching casts with commentary of DoW2 games to this day. There was a surge in DoW1 casts recently with the remastered version but they're not as enjoyable to watch IMO. To be fair, I really never gave it a proper shot. It certainly sounds logical and consciously I agree with your points, but at least back in the day, I had a very strong repulsive reaction to what I considered "even less macro", mostly because I felt like the aspect of base building was something I already missed a lot in DoW1 (where I had most fun with the factions that had a somewhat more relevant decision tree in that area, I guess the wc3 background showed). Luckily, SC2 was right around the corner, so DoW2 never got much of my attention.. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17665 Posts
On October 17 2025 02:25 Joni_ wrote: To be fair, I really never gave it a proper shot. It certainly sounds logical and consciously I agree with your points, but at least back in the day, I had a very strong repulsive reaction to what I considered "even less macro", mostly because I felt like the aspect of base building was something I already missed a lot in DoW1 (where I had most fun with the factions that had a somewhat more relevant decision tree in that area, I guess the wc3 background showed). Luckily, SC2 was right around the corner, so DoW2 never got much of my attention.. For me it was DoW2 that got my attention as SC2 failed to impress me (and fails to this day). | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10852 Posts
Also: Focus on 3v3 certainly was one of the decisions of all time. No chatroom/lobbies... | ||
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gerdgfdfga
4 Posts
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Yurie
12037 Posts
On October 17 2025 20:05 Velr wrote: I had plenty of fun with Dow 2 but after about 3 Weeks everything just felt very samey. Playing a game felt more like going thru the motions than anything else. Also: Focus on 3v3 certainly was one of the decisions of all time. No chatroom/lobbies... The 3v3 focus meant I bought and played it in multiplayer. I never touched multiplayer in DoW 1. It was also something that made me slightly interested in Stormgate until they decided not to care about more than 1vs1. Though I see a lot of proof that 1vs1 is popular with titles like Mechabellum being the most successful title in the space in recent years. Oh wait that is an auto battler, there hasn't been a non-auto battler that is successful in the PvP RTS sphere in years. Closest I guess is Beyond All Reason where the majority play 4v4 and up due to lack of matchmaking. And AoE 4 where 1vs1 is somewhat popular. I am honestly of the opinion that you should budget for and develop a game for single player or coop modes if you are doing an RTS. If you have some spare cash you throw in a PvP mode and see if it sticks around. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10852 Posts
But not like it was done in DoW 2 (iirc Command and Conquer also tried it?). A team mode shouldn't just mean that 3 people do basically the same stuff in parallel just in a bigger clusterfuck when compared to 1on1. Games like Supreme Commander/Beyond all reason imho have the better Idea on how this should be done with players basically having specific roles depending on their spawn location (which your totally free to ignoredeviate from, but then you better know damn well what your doing) and the games having wide/ deep enough Tech trees to make that feasible, iirc DoW 2 lacked that. | ||
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Yurie
12037 Posts
On October 17 2025 23:16 Velr wrote: I think 3v3-4v4 team based RTS can work. But not like it was done in DoW 2 (iirc Command and Conquer also tried it?). A team mode shouldn't just mean that 3 people do basically the same stuff in parallel just in a bigger clusterfuck when compared to 1on1. Games like Supreme Commander/Beyond all reason imho have the better Idea on how this should be done with players basically having specific roles depending on their spawn location (which your totally free to ignoredeviate from, but then you better know damn well what your doing) and the games having wide/ deep enough Tech trees to make that feasible, iirc DoW 2 lacked that. I think you could approach it more like Dota and all its spinoffs do. Where you have different strengths and weaknesses on top of how you are expected to play. A faction with no defensive units or buildings and tons of skirmishing units, another one with big beefy ones etc. This works in team games better than in 1vs1 where you have to be able to do everything at least a little or you just die. I enjoyed BattleForge where you built your own unit set and mostly played PvE where having things you did well and others you did poorly was a big part of it. I think there was also another title recently where you built your own army that folded. This approach would allow hyper specialization where one player has stronger economy, another stronger air and a third strong static defenses for an air raiding style. That is also a big part of how tabletop Warhammer is played, picking the units that make up your army for that round. Sadly not suitable for Warhammer would be something like a mix of strategy types. One person playing an auto battler, another doing mostly tactics focus with high APM etc. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17665 Posts
On October 17 2025 23:16 Velr wrote: I think 3v3-4v4 team based RTS can work. But not like it was done in DoW 2 (iirc Command and Conquer also tried it?). A team mode shouldn't just mean that 3 people do basically the same stuff in parallel just in a bigger clusterfuck when compared to 1on1. Games like Supreme Commander/Beyond all reason imho have the better Idea on how this should be done with players basically having specific roles depending on their spawn location (which your totally free to ignoredeviate from, but then you better know damn well what your doing) and the games having wide/ deep enough Tech trees to make that feasible, iirc DoW 2 lacked that. I think they had good kernels for that in WC3 but they didn't really develop it enough. I'd totally dig an RTS that lets you do cool stuff in 2v2/3v3 that isn't really feasible in 1v1. What I'm talking about is how players got creative with WC3 team resource sharing. Where in 2v2 you could send resources to your teammate and that introduced a whole new world of alternate tech paths and strategies since you now had different timing windows etc. There were even strategies where one player would forgo teching completely and send the majority of resources to the teammate so they can amass highest tier units before opponents have a chance to counter them. The truly multiplayer aspect of RTS (FFA, 2v2+ etc., not 1v1) is a vastly unexplored space with a lot of potential in my opinion. On October 17 2025 23:27 Yurie wrote: Sadly not suitable for Warhammer would be something like a mix of strategy types. One person playing an auto battler, another doing mostly tactics focus with high APM etc. Are you familiar with the Savage game series? They did an awesome blend of RTS/MOBA/RPG but they were too ahead of their time and it didn't catch on. Basically, you had one player being the commander and playing RTS, with top-down view, making buildings and using spells to buff players etc. while other players were playing as units with abilities in a MOBA like style (capturing locations, destroying opponent locations, fighting enemies and getting xp to get more abilities, switching to more powerful units as commander built up the tech tree etc.). Hell, you could even play as a builder unit and help out your commander. It was truly amazing but not many people could fully grasp the concept (it was before MOBAs got popular). Also, the game was hard. The action/combat was very high paced and skill-based (good players could 1v3 or 1v5) with different abilities, dodging etc. (think souls-like multiplayer). This is a player perspective: | ||
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