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On June 18 2010 23:42 DevAzTaYtA wrote:
i guess i can see it being workable against someone really really REALLY bad (perhaps someone who doesn't know that razes do damage to stuff), but in such cases the optimal item choice is obviously fast tablet of command.
fuck yeah tablet rush
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butigrove's build is designed to work against terrible players
might as well rush codex and dominate the game with it
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Northern Ireland22210 Posts
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On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable. Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune. If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be.  Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players. Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry. 8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier. punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots.
200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol
if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100
didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow.
also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol. pubhero SS have a tendency to start with bottle first lmao
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On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable. Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune. If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be. Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players. Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry. 8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier. punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots. 200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100 didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow. also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol
comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage.
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Here folks we have exhibit A, the scrubstar.
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On June 19 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable. Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune. If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be. Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players. Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry. 8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier. punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots. 200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100 didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow. also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage.
lol your logic is so fail
1 duck boots 3 gg branches gives him half the +damage you have combined with already terrible base, and he will have an even harder time lasthitting. how exactly is his build going to dominate me in lane? 5 attack speed wooooh lol
him spending money on regen is somehow better than you spending money on regen? you would have to spend 500 gold more on regen (yeah right lol) for your phase boots to be slower than a normal build.
it gives a huge advantage, because once you get phase boots he will be hard pressed to get any farm at all.
like i said, it really doesnt matter, but your logic is quite lolsy to read so keep going please
you act like I claimed this is the build to end all builds against every player ever. what I did say is that it gives you a huge exploitable advantage against players you would win the lane against anyways, and allows you to keep them on level 3 or 4 instead of remaining relatively even (important in pubs, because you can win your lane and your teammates can feed him anyway)
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you know, lmnop's post was plausible
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Mama just killed a man
Put a gun against his head
Pulled my trigger, now he's dead
Mama, life has just begun
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, ooh
Didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on as if nothing really matters
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Northern Ireland22210 Posts
Funnily enough, I was singing that in vent earlier. Ask Ether ;p
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On June 19 2010 11:38 Butigroove wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote:On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable. Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune. If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be. Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players. Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry. 8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier. punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots. 200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100 didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow. also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage. lol your logic is so fail 1 duck boots 3 gg branches gives him half the +damage you have combined with already terrible base, and he will have an even harder time lasthitting. how exactly is his build going to dominate me in lane? 5 attack speed wooooh lol him spending money on regen is somehow better than you spending money on regen? you would have to spend 500 gold more on regen (yeah right lol) for your phase boots to be slower than a normal build. it gives a huge advantage, because once you get phase boots he will be hard pressed to get any farm at all. like i said, it really doesnt matter, but your logic is quite lolsy to read so keep going please you act like I claimed this is the build to end all builds against every player ever. what I did say is that it gives you a huge exploitable advantage against players you would win the lane against anyways, and allows you to keep them on level 3 or 4 instead of remaining relatively even (important in pubs, because you can win your lane and your teammates can feed him anyway)
Actually Alv's logic isn't flawed, speaking from a player perspective, shit like this is why NA DotA players rarely make it on the international stage despite having good skills/fundamentals. You're also forgetting item progression in light of solid competition, aka not pubs. There's a very good reason why the starting items Alv stated is common on SS, people have been messing with SS/SF for a long time now, he's about as well-understood solo as they come.
If you want to discuss pub strats then you might as well go whatever Dagon is in HoN, whatever Blink is in HoN, whatever Force Staff is in HoN and whatever Ghost Wand is in HoN every fucking game because that's all you really need against baddies.
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On June 19 2010 13:00 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 11:38 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote:On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable. Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune. If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be. Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players. Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry. 8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier. punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots. 200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100 didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow. also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage. lol your logic is so fail 1 duck boots 3 gg branches gives him half the +damage you have combined with already terrible base, and he will have an even harder time lasthitting. how exactly is his build going to dominate me in lane? 5 attack speed wooooh lol him spending money on regen is somehow better than you spending money on regen? you would have to spend 500 gold more on regen (yeah right lol) for your phase boots to be slower than a normal build. it gives a huge advantage, because once you get phase boots he will be hard pressed to get any farm at all. like i said, it really doesnt matter, but your logic is quite lolsy to read so keep going please you act like I claimed this is the build to end all builds against every player ever. what I did say is that it gives you a huge exploitable advantage against players you would win the lane against anyways, and allows you to keep them on level 3 or 4 instead of remaining relatively even (important in pubs, because you can win your lane and your teammates can feed him anyway) Actually Alv's logic isn't flawed, speaking from a player perspective, shit like this is why NA DotA players rarely make it on the international stage despite having good skills/fundamentals. You're also forgetting item progression in light of solid competition, aka not pubs. There's a very good reason why the starting items Alv stated is common on SS, people have been messing with SS/SF for a long time now, he's about as well-understood solo as they come. If you want to discuss pub strats then you might as well go whatever Dagon is in HoN, whatever Blink is in HoN, whatever Force Staff is in HoN and whatever Ghost Wand is in HoN every fucking game because that's all you really need against baddies.
No wai man punchdagger is #1 international build
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This was a real question ! if no meepo i would have to buy 3 other computer to play and feeling the same skill i was on dota, so its a big investement :@D
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On June 19 2010 13:30 Butigroove wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 13:00 Judicator wrote:On June 19 2010 11:38 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote:On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable. Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune. If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be. Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players. Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry. 8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier. punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots. 200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100 didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow. also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage. lol your logic is so fail 1 duck boots 3 gg branches gives him half the +damage you have combined with already terrible base, and he will have an even harder time lasthitting. how exactly is his build going to dominate me in lane? 5 attack speed wooooh lol him spending money on regen is somehow better than you spending money on regen? you would have to spend 500 gold more on regen (yeah right lol) for your phase boots to be slower than a normal build. it gives a huge advantage, because once you get phase boots he will be hard pressed to get any farm at all. like i said, it really doesnt matter, but your logic is quite lolsy to read so keep going please you act like I claimed this is the build to end all builds against every player ever. what I did say is that it gives you a huge exploitable advantage against players you would win the lane against anyways, and allows you to keep them on level 3 or 4 instead of remaining relatively even (important in pubs, because you can win your lane and your teammates can feed him anyway) Actually Alv's logic isn't flawed, speaking from a player perspective, shit like this is why NA DotA players rarely make it on the international stage despite having good skills/fundamentals. You're also forgetting item progression in light of solid competition, aka not pubs. There's a very good reason why the starting items Alv stated is common on SS, people have been messing with SS/SF for a long time now, he's about as well-understood solo as they come. If you want to discuss pub strats then you might as well go whatever Dagon is in HoN, whatever Blink is in HoN, whatever Force Staff is in HoN and whatever Ghost Wand is in HoN every fucking game because that's all you really need against baddies. No wai man punchdagger is #1 international build
Just tired of the lolumad faggots coming out of NA, its like watching them roll lesser teams so easily then fold up against any team worth their sponsorship. When Fear calls it, NA DotA is done. Merlini already left. FFUUUUU
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On June 19 2010 13:00 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 11:38 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote:On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable. Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune. If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be. Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players. Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry. 8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier. punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots. 200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100 didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow. also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage. lol your logic is so fail 1 duck boots 3 gg branches gives him half the +damage you have combined with already terrible base, and he will have an even harder time lasthitting. how exactly is his build going to dominate me in lane? 5 attack speed wooooh lol him spending money on regen is somehow better than you spending money on regen? you would have to spend 500 gold more on regen (yeah right lol) for your phase boots to be slower than a normal build. it gives a huge advantage, because once you get phase boots he will be hard pressed to get any farm at all. like i said, it really doesnt matter, but your logic is quite lolsy to read so keep going please you act like I claimed this is the build to end all builds against every player ever. what I did say is that it gives you a huge exploitable advantage against players you would win the lane against anyways, and allows you to keep them on level 3 or 4 instead of remaining relatively even (important in pubs, because you can win your lane and your teammates can feed him anyway) Actually Alv's logic isn't flawed, speaking from a player perspective, shit like this is why NA DotA players rarely make it on the international stage despite having good skills/fundamentals. You're also forgetting item progression in light of solid competition, aka not pubs. There's a very good reason why the starting items Alv stated is common on SS, people have been messing with SS/SF for a long time now, he's about as well-understood solo as they come. If you want to discuss pub strats then you might as well go whatever Dagon is in HoN, whatever Blink is in HoN, whatever Force Staff is in HoN and whatever Ghost Wand is in HoN every fucking game because that's all you really need against baddies.
HoN doesn't have Ethereal Blade. Can't do Dagon Ethereal gayness
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On June 19 2010 13:43 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 13:30 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 13:00 Judicator wrote:On June 19 2010 11:38 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote:On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:[quote] Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune. If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be. Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players. Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry. 8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier. punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots. 200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100 didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow. also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage. lol your logic is so fail 1 duck boots 3 gg branches gives him half the +damage you have combined with already terrible base, and he will have an even harder time lasthitting. how exactly is his build going to dominate me in lane? 5 attack speed wooooh lol him spending money on regen is somehow better than you spending money on regen? you would have to spend 500 gold more on regen (yeah right lol) for your phase boots to be slower than a normal build. it gives a huge advantage, because once you get phase boots he will be hard pressed to get any farm at all. like i said, it really doesnt matter, but your logic is quite lolsy to read so keep going please you act like I claimed this is the build to end all builds against every player ever. what I did say is that it gives you a huge exploitable advantage against players you would win the lane against anyways, and allows you to keep them on level 3 or 4 instead of remaining relatively even (important in pubs, because you can win your lane and your teammates can feed him anyway) Actually Alv's logic isn't flawed, speaking from a player perspective, shit like this is why NA DotA players rarely make it on the international stage despite having good skills/fundamentals. You're also forgetting item progression in light of solid competition, aka not pubs. There's a very good reason why the starting items Alv stated is common on SS, people have been messing with SS/SF for a long time now, he's about as well-understood solo as they come. If you want to discuss pub strats then you might as well go whatever Dagon is in HoN, whatever Blink is in HoN, whatever Force Staff is in HoN and whatever Ghost Wand is in HoN every fucking game because that's all you really need against baddies. No wai man punchdagger is #1 international build Just tired of the lolumad faggots coming out of NA, its like watching them roll lesser teams so easily then fold up against any team worth their sponsorship. When Fear calls it, NA DotA is done. Merlini already left. FFUUUUU
I realized what you meant. NA HoN is going strong gogo testie win $40k tourney plz
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I'm going to get a new computer, and then I'm going to get HoN (my current computer won't run HoN.)
TDA is shit.
Slithice opens with RoP, you know the game's going to be shit from there.
Leoric farms two bracers and treads farming top lane 30 minutes 0-0-1, doesn't TP the whole game.
Boots huskar ends game 0-15, we tell jungle is warded and he goes to farm anyway.
NA gets ult, roams and doesn't use it for ten minutes, gets four levels under.
I'm crying. Or something.
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On June 19 2010 13:33 Rodiel wrote:
This was a real question ! if no meepo i would have to buy 3 other computer to play and feeling the same skill i was on dota, so its a big investement :@D
lol, oh thats right
i remember rodiel claimed that he was playing for testie, devaz, alv and himself
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
punchdagger first into claymore
edit - for survivability, obviously.
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On June 19 2010 14:44 CrownRoyal wrote:
punchdagger first into claymore
edit - for survivability, obviously.
why?
500 gold is only delaying your claymore, which is all the lane rape staying power you need
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EPT
