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[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 946

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Etherone
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1898 Posts
June 19 2010 08:57 GMT
#18901
On June 19 2010 17:52 Dead9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 14:44 CrownRoyal wrote:
punchdagger first into claymore

edit - for survivability, obviously.

why?
500 gold is only delaying your claymore, which is all the lane rape staying power you need

he means a straight from fountain item.
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
June 19 2010 09:04 GMT
#18902
On June 19 2010 14:34 EmeraldSparks wrote:
I'm going to get a new computer, and then I'm going to get HoN (my current computer won't run HoN.)

TDA is shit.

Slithice opens with RoP, you know the game's going to be shit from there.

Leoric farms two bracers and treads farming top lane 30 minutes 0-0-1, doesn't TP the whole game.

Boots huskar ends game 0-15, we tell jungle is warded and he goes to farm anyway.

NA gets ult, roams and doesn't use it for ten minutes, gets four levels under.

I'm crying. Or something.

who the hell plays tda, you are 5 years behind on this
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Etherone
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1898 Posts
June 19 2010 09:06 GMT
#18903
On June 19 2010 12:24 OmgIRok wrote:
Mama just killed a man
Put a gun against his head
Pulled my trigger, now he's dead
Mama, life has just begun
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, ooh
Didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on as if nothing really matters



too late, my time has come
sends shivers down my spine
body's aching all the time
goodbye everybody
I've got to go
gotta leave you all behind and face the truth
mama ooo,
i don't want to die
I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all
Butigroove
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Seychelles2061 Posts
June 19 2010 11:55 GMT
#18904
On June 19 2010 17:57 Etherone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 17:52 Dead9 wrote:
On June 19 2010 14:44 CrownRoyal wrote:
punchdagger first into claymore

edit - for survivability, obviously.

why?
500 gold is only delaying your claymore, which is all the lane rape staying power you need

he means a straight from fountain item.

he's right. Saving gold for claymore at start is much better option in any game, especially international competition.
beach beers buds beezies b-b-b-baaanelings
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
June 19 2010 15:27 GMT
#18905
On June 19 2010 14:13 Butigroove wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 13:43 Judicator wrote:
On June 19 2010 13:30 Butigroove wrote:
On June 19 2010 13:00 Judicator wrote:
On June 19 2010 11:38 Butigroove wrote:
On June 19 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote:
On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:
On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:
On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:
On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:
[quote]

Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players.

Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry.

8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier.



punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots.

200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol

if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100

didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow.

also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol


comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage.

lol your logic is so fail

1 duck boots 3 gg branches gives him half the +damage you have combined with already terrible base, and he will have an even harder time lasthitting. how exactly is his build going to dominate me in lane? 5 attack speed wooooh lol

him spending money on regen is somehow better than you spending money on regen? you would have to spend 500 gold more on regen (yeah right lol) for your phase boots to be slower than a normal build.

it gives a huge advantage, because once you get phase boots he will be hard pressed to get any farm at all.

like i said, it really doesnt matter, but your logic is quite lolsy to read so keep going please

you act like I claimed this is the build to end all builds against every player ever. what I did say is that it gives you a huge exploitable advantage against players you would win the lane against anyways, and allows you to keep them on level 3 or 4 instead of remaining relatively even (important in pubs, because you can win your lane and your teammates can feed him anyway)


Actually Alv's logic isn't flawed, speaking from a player perspective, shit like this is why NA DotA players rarely make it on the international stage despite having good skills/fundamentals. You're also forgetting item progression in light of solid competition, aka not pubs. There's a very good reason why the starting items Alv stated is common on SS, people have been messing with SS/SF for a long time now, he's about as well-understood solo as they come.

If you want to discuss pub strats then you might as well go whatever Dagon is in HoN, whatever Blink is in HoN, whatever Force Staff is in HoN and whatever Ghost Wand is in HoN every fucking game because that's all you really need against baddies.

No wai man punchdagger is #1 international build


Just tired of the lolumad faggots coming out of NA, its like watching them roll lesser teams so easily then fold up against any team worth their sponsorship. When Fear calls it, NA DotA is done. Merlini already left. FFUUUUU

I realized what you meant. NA HoN is going strong gogo testie win $40k tourney plz


You also realize that NA DotA was tops and competitive internationally for a period of time too right? Every other region comes out with new world class teams and players every version or so, NA comes out with nothing. If Fear didn't come back, Demon would be our best player, who essentially is the best of the DXDi frogs-in-a-well and actually wanted to improve and jump out of the proverbial well.

Funny how EmeraldSparks thinks HoN will be any different from DotA.
Get it by your hands...
OmgIRok
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Taiwan2699 Posts
June 19 2010 16:30 GMT
#18906
On June 19 2010 18:06 Etherone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 12:24 OmgIRok wrote:
Mama just killed a man
Put a gun against his head
Pulled my trigger, now he's dead
Mama, life has just begun
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, ooh
Didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on as if nothing really matters



too late, my time has come
sends shivers down my spine
body's aching all the time
goodbye everybody
I've got to go
gotta leave you all behind and face the truth
mama ooo,
i don't want to die
I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all


i see a little silhouetto of a man
scaramouch, scaramouch, will you do the Fandango
Thunderbolt and lightning, very, very frightening me
(Galileo) Galileo (Galileo) Galileo, Galileo Figaro
Magnifico-o-o-o-o
I'm just a poor boy nobody loves me
He's just a poor boy from a poor family
Spare him his life from this monstrosity


"Wanna join my [combo] clan?" "We play turret d competitively"
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
June 19 2010 17:36 GMT
#18907
On June 19 2010 18:04 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 14:34 EmeraldSparks wrote:
I'm going to get a new computer, and then I'm going to get HoN (my current computer won't run HoN.)

TDA is shit.

Slithice opens with RoP, you know the game's going to be shit from there.

Leoric farms two bracers and treads farming top lane 30 minutes 0-0-1, doesn't TP the whole game.

Boots huskar ends game 0-15, we tell jungle is warded and he goes to farm anyway.

NA gets ult, roams and doesn't use it for ten minutes, gets four levels under.

I'm crying. Or something.

who the hell plays tda, you are 5 years behind on this

It's actually not that bad when there are retards on both teams. I was just on the receiving end of too many pubstomps today. Anyway, I don't have enough friends to join an open league.

On June 20 2010 00:27 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 14:13 Butigroove wrote:
On June 19 2010 13:43 Judicator wrote:
On June 19 2010 13:30 Butigroove wrote:
On June 19 2010 13:00 Judicator wrote:
On June 19 2010 11:38 Butigroove wrote:
On June 19 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote:
On June 19 2010 10:02 Butigroove wrote:
On June 19 2010 04:22 Alventenie wrote:
On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:
[quote]
8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier.



punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots.

200 gold more regen? your math is a tad bit off lol

if he has the same damage as a punchdagger with 3 duckboots, he has 50 gold more regen, and with duck/duck/gg/gg he has 100

didnt realize you couldnt get regen on a crow.

also i explained pretty well why it was only better versus bad players, but it really doesnt matter lol


comparing your items (punchdagger 1 tango/pot) vs his items (1x duck boots 3x gg branches + regen or even 2x duck boots 2x branches 1 pot 1 tango), He will dominate you in lane. If you say "well it only works vs bad players", then why do you bring it up?, Anything works vs bad players, you could bring nothing to lane and still win. "regen on crow", you are spending your money that you need to rush phase boots on more regen, meaning you aren't accomplishing what you need to accomplish (getting phase quickly). It's much stronger to win the lane with regular items and push ss out of the lane rather than try quirky builds that don't give you any real advantage.

lol your logic is so fail

1 duck boots 3 gg branches gives him half the +damage you have combined with already terrible base, and he will have an even harder time lasthitting. how exactly is his build going to dominate me in lane? 5 attack speed wooooh lol

him spending money on regen is somehow better than you spending money on regen? you would have to spend 500 gold more on regen (yeah right lol) for your phase boots to be slower than a normal build.

it gives a huge advantage, because once you get phase boots he will be hard pressed to get any farm at all.

like i said, it really doesnt matter, but your logic is quite lolsy to read so keep going please

you act like I claimed this is the build to end all builds against every player ever. what I did say is that it gives you a huge exploitable advantage against players you would win the lane against anyways, and allows you to keep them on level 3 or 4 instead of remaining relatively even (important in pubs, because you can win your lane and your teammates can feed him anyway)


Actually Alv's logic isn't flawed, speaking from a player perspective, shit like this is why NA DotA players rarely make it on the international stage despite having good skills/fundamentals. You're also forgetting item progression in light of solid competition, aka not pubs. There's a very good reason why the starting items Alv stated is common on SS, people have been messing with SS/SF for a long time now, he's about as well-understood solo as they come.

If you want to discuss pub strats then you might as well go whatever Dagon is in HoN, whatever Blink is in HoN, whatever Force Staff is in HoN and whatever Ghost Wand is in HoN every fucking game because that's all you really need against baddies.

No wai man punchdagger is #1 international build


Just tired of the lolumad faggots coming out of NA, its like watching them roll lesser teams so easily then fold up against any team worth their sponsorship. When Fear calls it, NA DotA is done. Merlini already left. FFUUUUU

I realized what you meant. NA HoN is going strong gogo testie win $40k tourney plz


You also realize that NA DotA was tops and competitive internationally for a period of time too right? Every other region comes out with new world class teams and players every version or so, NA comes out with nothing. If Fear didn't come back, Demon would be our best player, who essentially is the best of the DXDi frogs-in-a-well and actually wanted to improve and jump out of the proverbial well.

Funny how EmeraldSparks thinks HoN will be any different from DotA.

Well, there's a ladder in HoN, right? So at least you won't be playing with complete morons.
But why?
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-19 17:45:09
June 19 2010 17:39 GMT
#18908
So you honestly think stat tracking, and a ladder system will make it "better"? I have said this before, all of the HoN features for tracking "performance" makes the community infinitely shittier.

You'll encounter idiots who will sit on skills to steal a kill, try to out last hit your carries, as well as other shitty habits all in the name of "stats". HoN literally gave them a (horribly incorrect) justification for doing all of the shit you shouldn't do as a player.

In other words, you'll be playing with scrubs who are so dead set on thinking that they're doing the right thing (the equivalent of DotA dumbshits who try to stack Vanguards and Butterflies) when they're not.
Get it by your hands...
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
June 19 2010 18:11 GMT
#18909
On June 20 2010 02:39 Judicator wrote:
So you honestly think stat tracking, and a ladder system will make it "better"? I have said this before, all of the HoN features for tracking "performance" makes the community infinitely shittier.

You'll encounter idiots who will sit on skills to steal a kill, try to out last hit your carries, as well as other shitty habits all in the name of "stats". HoN literally gave them a (horribly incorrect) justification for doing all of the shit you shouldn't do as a player.

In other words, you'll be playing with scrubs who are so dead set on thinking that they're doing the right thing (the equivalent of DotA dumbshits who try to stack Vanguards and Butterflies) when they're not.

Sorry, I haven't seen you post about it before. The thread's pretty long.

I agree, stat tracking is kind of dumb, and definitely doesn't take care of run of the mill retardedness like never carrying TP for tower dives or never showing up to teamfights. I don't quite know how the ladder system works, though, but hopefully it only keeps track of "team ELO" and adjusts everyone's score based on that (and not in-game stats), right? People who go for individual glory and consistently sink their teams should see their ranking go down over time.
But why?
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-19 19:25:45
June 19 2010 19:19 GMT
#18910
Eh, no. Players who improve rarely care for their stats of any kind, in other words, context matters more than the actual number. Pubs and scrubs will never grasp this concept.

The problem with your last sentence is that you don't see that every scrub and pub believes in their ability to carry how ever misplaced that is; you see this in pubs/scrubs who are kill-reliant for their success in any given game.

And no, because the more stats you are provided with, the more shit you will be judged on even without any context to those stats. I always judge a player on the first 2 creep waves to see how well they lane, and from that I can pretty much determine where the person stands relative to myself. Fairly early in any given game, people who play with me will usually hear me say, we gotta do X because this player Y isn't going to do Z for us (reliably).
Get it by your hands...
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
June 19 2010 19:44 GMT
#18911
On June 20 2010 02:39 Judicator wrote:
So you honestly think stat tracking, and a ladder system will make it "better"? I have said this before, all of the HoN features for tracking "performance" makes the community infinitely shittier.

You'll encounter idiots who will sit on skills to steal a kill, try to out last hit your carries, as well as other shitty habits all in the name of "stats". HoN literally gave them a (horribly incorrect) justification for doing all of the shit you shouldn't do as a player.

In other words, you'll be playing with scrubs who are so dead set on thinking that they're doing the right thing (the equivalent of DotA dumbshits who try to stack Vanguards and Butterflies) when they're not.

I've been playing THR2 again for about a week now and this is pretty accurate except about kills because nobody cares about kills in THR2. THR's ELO system only increases the amount of smugness and rage which is annoying because I've seen a good amount of shit talk and less-than-stellar play. While you actually get mostly decent pub-level people or the rare mid/high level NA DotA player there are plenty of idiots that walk around that are clueless and basically your team has to figure out how to win with them.
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-19 19:49:54
June 19 2010 19:49 GMT
#18912
I am on DotAPub's bots instead and its hilarious when I run into people on their top 25 lists. Had one person that I laned against solo tell me that 20-8 cs in 10 minutes was good when I came back to the lane after buying my Scepter straight up in the same amount of time. Ignorance is bliss.

We occasionally run into the good NA player on TDA, the only one that impressed me was Chu.
Get it by your hands...
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
June 19 2010 20:01 GMT
#18913
On June 20 2010 04:49 Judicator wrote:
I am on DotAPub's bots instead and its hilarious when I run into people on their top 25 lists. Had one person that I laned against solo tell me that 20-8 cs in 10 minutes was good when I came back to the lane after buying my Scepter straight up in the same amount of time. Ignorance is bliss.

We occasionally run into the good NA player on TDA, the only one that impressed me was Chu.

THR1 is basically pub level, while some high skill level are up on the ladder because of a 95% percent win rate most of the people in top 10 are basically ELO abusers or EM farmers that are now inactive because they realize they can't beat the abusers. Not to mention fountain farmers galore.

THR2 ladder actually reflects some of the NA DotA pubstars.
THR3 ladder actually reflects some of high skill NA DotA. Except wait, it's inactive.
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
lepape
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada557 Posts
June 19 2010 20:25 GMT
#18914
On June 20 2010 02:39 Judicator wrote:
So you honestly think stat tracking, and a ladder system will make it "better"? I have said this before, all of the HoN features for tracking "performance" makes the community infinitely shittier.

You'll encounter idiots who will sit on skills to steal a kill, try to out last hit your carries, as well as other shitty habits all in the name of "stats". HoN literally gave them a (horribly incorrect) justification for doing all of the shit you shouldn't do as a player.

In other words, you'll be playing with scrubs who are so dead set on thinking that they're doing the right thing (the equivalent of DotA dumbshits who try to stack Vanguards and Butterflies) when they're not.


Sure, but in the end, players who keep doing that will peak very quickly with their PSR rating.
DevAzTaYtA
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Oman2005 Posts
June 19 2010 21:30 GMT
#18915
Umm as long as you grind your way up to 1700+ (really easy if you have an ally who knows how to farm) people will start playing their roles reasonably well even in -SD games and generally don't care about their stats (except for kdr, which is fine by me). They still are quite poor in the laning stage of the game unless it's a heavily mismatched lane but at least they buy courier and some token wards and initiate some ganks. Ofc they won't hand you all the kills if you are the carry, but it's a pub game ffs.
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
June 19 2010 22:13 GMT
#18916
Hey isexu I hope you get featured in this
http://dotasource.de/dota-szene/szene-matches-replays/22244-rgc-rapefest-thread-für-replayrapefreunde-8-replays/?s=e39ed62439f879a07597bb347d40180da9c5b41a
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
June 19 2010 22:18 GMT
#18917
LOL so mean Rabidch. Leave it to Matthe to start a thread like that.
Get it by your hands...
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-19 22:23:38
June 19 2010 22:23 GMT
#18918
On June 20 2010 07:13 rabidch wrote:
Hey isexu/omgirok I hope you get featured in this
http://dotasource.de/dota-szene/szene-matches-replays/22244-rgc-rapefest-thread-für-replayrapefreunde-8-replays/?s=e39ed62439f879a07597bb347d40180da9c5b41a

fix oops
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
OmgIRok
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Taiwan2699 Posts
June 20 2010 00:25 GMT
#18919
i didn't want to tell you this till monday, but my team got a walkover
you were right about us being lucky the whole bracket is south american / brazilians
the other team doesn't even speak english
"Wanna join my [combo] clan?" "We play turret d competitively"
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
June 20 2010 01:09 GMT
#18920
Not lucky, I know the admins of that tournament, they're not retarded and actually have experience running these things. If they set up different timezone teams, there would be less games actually being played.
Get it by your hands...
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