• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:02
CEST 05:02
KST 12:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64
StarCraft 2
General
Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 5/8 August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2
Tourneys
2026 KungFu Cup Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion BW General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 2v2v2v2 Tournament Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Are High-Level Gamers more A…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3730 users

[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 944

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 942 943 944 945 946 1664 Next
Butigroove
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Seychelles2061 Posts
June 18 2010 12:01 GMT
#18861
I love starting with punch dagger tangoes against pubhero soulstealers, and getting every single creep for the first 3 waves or so.

So satisfying.
beach beers buds beezies b-b-b-baaanelings
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
June 18 2010 12:29 GMT
#18862
You love being bad? O_o
Butigroove
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Seychelles2061 Posts
June 18 2010 12:33 GMT
#18863
On June 18 2010 21:29 Goshawk. wrote:
You love being bad? O_o

Yes predicting an easy lane and using a squishy but abusive build to beat it is totally bad.
beach beers buds beezies b-b-b-baaanelings
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
June 18 2010 12:36 GMT
#18864
Ya, +9 damage is abusable.
Butigroove
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Seychelles2061 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 12:41:24
June 18 2010 12:39 GMT
#18865
On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable.

Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune.

If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be.
beach beers buds beezies b-b-b-baaanelings
DevAzTaYtA
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Oman2005 Posts
June 18 2010 13:24 GMT
#18866
you do realize you can get that +9 damage cheaper by going stats items right?
Butigroove
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Seychelles2061 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 13:47:10
June 18 2010 13:38 GMT
#18867
On June 18 2010 22:24 DevAzTaYtA wrote:
you do realize you can get that +9 damage cheaper by going stats items right?

Duh

Like I said, the point of the punchdagger is to rush phase boots, which allows you to dominate the lane and runes much earlier than normal against SS, (which as Im sure you know is important against ss). It's not something I would do against someone good, which I also said already.
beach beers buds beezies b-b-b-baaanelings
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
June 18 2010 13:41 GMT
#18868
On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable.

Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune.

If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be.


Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players.

Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry.
Butigroove
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Seychelles2061 Posts
June 18 2010 13:50 GMT
#18869
On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:
On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable.

Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune.

If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be.


Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players.

Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry.

8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier.
beach beers buds beezies b-b-b-baaanelings
DevAzTaYtA
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Oman2005 Posts
June 18 2010 14:42 GMT
#18870
i guess i can see it being workable against someone really really REALLY bad (perhaps someone who doesn't know that razes do damage to stuff), but in such cases the optimal item choice is obviously fast tablet of command.
Alventenie
Profile Joined July 2007
United States2147 Posts
June 18 2010 19:22 GMT
#18871
On June 18 2010 22:50 Butigroove wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2010 22:41 Goshawk. wrote:
On June 18 2010 21:39 Butigroove wrote:
On June 18 2010 21:36 Goshawk. wrote:
Ya, +9 damage is abusable.

Did you just miss the discussion about how you have to beat SS at level one with last hit/aggressiveness? Punchdagger first will compound your base damage advantage to the point where they won't be able to get a single creep without razes, then allow you to get a quick phase boots to keep them out of the lane with aggression, as well as stopping their raze farm because you should get every rune.

If you would like, I'll lane against your soulstealer with a comparable mid hero of your choice to show you how abusive it can be.


Punchdagger gives you +9 damage and that's it. His starting items give +8 damage, as well as +8 agil, +2 str, +2 intel, plus he has twice the amount of regen than you. Have fun vs his damage+razes. Dunno how bad they must be not to get any creeps without razes. -_- Ya, I know you said you liked doing it vs bad players.

Don't have a hon account anymore so can't laugh at you sorry.

8 attack speed 40 hp and 26 mana aren't substantial enough differences to stop you from outfarming him early game, your phase boots will be a good 2+ waves faster than normal, and you can shut him down and prevent any sort of farm at all way earlier.



punch dagger first is always bad. Stat items and regen are better always. You can say that you do more damage, but he has twice or even more than twice the regen you have, so he just right clicks you until you have to go heal while he has 200 gold more regen than you and just free farms. Soon you are even in damage and you can't farm anything because he has a bottle and equal level. He farms waves faster than you now and you can't beat him to rune because he just nukes you with his long range raze every chance he gets since you have no regen. You have to heal or waste money on more regen, putting you further behind. SS now has treads with his bottle, you will never kill him again because you don't have boots.
Elemenope
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
June 18 2010 19:59 GMT
#18872
It's only effective when I troll people with item choices.
In DotA you could
Alventenie
Profile Joined July 2007
United States2147 Posts
June 18 2010 20:03 GMT
#18873
My intent wasn't to troll good sir lmnop, it was to tell him he's bad.
Kenny
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States678 Posts
June 18 2010 20:20 GMT
#18874
Anyone want to start a team for scrimming? 1800+ only preez <3
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
June 18 2010 21:14 GMT
#18875
I heard that Testie guy wants to play some competitive
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Etherone
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1898 Posts
June 18 2010 21:30 GMT
#18876
On June 19 2010 05:03 Alventenie wrote:
My intent wasn't to troll good sir lmnop, it was to tell him he's bad.

pretty sure he meant dev
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
June 18 2010 21:57 GMT
#18877
On June 19 2010 06:30 Etherone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 05:03 Alventenie wrote:
My intent wasn't to troll good sir lmnop, it was to tell him he's bad.

pretty sure he meant dev

Pretty sure he meant butigroove...
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Etherone
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1898 Posts
June 18 2010 22:21 GMT
#18878
On June 19 2010 06:57 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 06:30 Etherone wrote:
On June 19 2010 05:03 Alventenie wrote:
My intent wasn't to troll good sir lmnop, it was to tell him he's bad.

pretty sure he meant dev

Pretty sure he meant butigroove...

pretty sure butigrove is defending his point of view with real game experience and has been pretty specific in which scenario his build would be successful.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
June 18 2010 22:23 GMT
#18879
On June 19 2010 07:21 Etherone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 06:57 Pokebunny wrote:
On June 19 2010 06:30 Etherone wrote:
On June 19 2010 05:03 Alventenie wrote:
My intent wasn't to troll good sir lmnop, it was to tell him he's bad.

pretty sure he meant dev

Pretty sure he meant butigroove...

pretty sure butigrove is defending his point of view with real game experience and has been pretty specific in which scenario his build would be successful.

That's what Elemenope basically sounded like too... he's making an intentionally inaccurate joking comparison.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Etherone
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1898 Posts
June 18 2010 22:53 GMT
#18880
On June 19 2010 07:23 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 07:21 Etherone wrote:
On June 19 2010 06:57 Pokebunny wrote:
On June 19 2010 06:30 Etherone wrote:
On June 19 2010 05:03 Alventenie wrote:
My intent wasn't to troll good sir lmnop, it was to tell him he's bad.

pretty sure he meant dev

Pretty sure he meant butigroove...

pretty sure butigrove is defending his point of view with real game experience and has been pretty specific in which scenario his build would be successful.

That's what Elemenope basically sounded like too... he's making an intentionally inaccurate joking comparison.

pretty sure you just couldn't tell the difference then and now have some blanket criteria to point out "trolls", which is inaccurate, lmnop made up numbers, situations, and even roles in lanes that didn't exist. only someone with a complete lack of understanding for what the laning phase is would look twice at his post and take it seriously.

i don't say i agree with butigrove's build, but i will say that there many situations where going an unorthodox build vs a certain style of player can ultimately be better than the cookie cutter templates. An adaptive style of play is always better than a static one.
Prev 1 942 943 944 945 946 1664 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Ladder Invitational
CranKy Ducklings115
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 239
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3493
GuemChi 2103
Dota 2
The International53069
League of Legends
JimRising 497
Counter-Strike
summit1g8431
taco 447
minikerr21
Super Smash Bros
amsayoshi43
Other Games
C9.Mang0379
ViBE193
Maynarde135
ROOTCatZ103
Fuzer 94
Mew2King48
Hui .18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1104
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 114
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP7
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 5
• Azhi_Dahaki2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21863
League of Legends
• Rush444
• Stunt181
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
6h 58m
PiG Sty Festival
8h 58m
Serral vs Lambo
SHIN vs Rogue
OSC
9h 58m
Replay Cast
20h 58m
Escore
1d 6h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 8h
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs Zoun
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
The Patches Monday
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-11
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.