[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 903

On May 24 2010 07:48 hideo wrote:
from what I've seen, yyf plays a lot of gankers/support gankers and occasionally a semi-carry role that focuses exclusively on ganking instead of farming (e.g. storm spirit that leaves his lane after bottle/power treads). I guess you could call him a "support" in a rough sense of the word, where he helps keep pressure off the carry and feeds him kills.

2009 takes on a farming semi-carry like nevermore that gives them a lot of mid-game power in teamfights, and covers for the 4v5 disadvantage due to the permanently-absent rice-farming late hard carry ZSMJ.

Anyways, I just like how coordinated their ganking and teamfighting is. Everything just always goes off with the perfect timing and positioning. The superhero, clutch plays you expect from your typical star players isn't even necessary in their case, because their fundamentals are just so strong. Whenever I go back to watching European matches after a stint of Asian matches, I just see so much messiness and flawedness in their play. I'm also kind of disappointed with the other Asian teams not performing up to snuff with the Chinese, because players like hyhy, yamateh, chuan, sakura, etc. etc. are some of my favourite players ever.

On May 24 2010 07:41 rabidch wrote:

yyf doesnt play support? ganker, pusher both count as support. unless you mean that ehome's entire team doesn't play support because they're all better known as carries

i have only seen zsmj play about a handful of heroes maybe a few more. i'd like to see more from that before i call him the best carry ever to play dota.

a team can only be good as its weakest link. the reason lgd.sgty is so good now is because they've gotten teamplay and many strategies down, not because 3 guys are carrying them to victory. if that was true theyd be dropping more games to ehome, ch, and nv.cn because they also have the talent but not the teamplay. you cant overrate ch~ and Gx

edit:
nevermind, zsmj used to play a lot more different heroes in 6.64, wonder why the change

On May 24 2010 11:02 uberMatt wrote:


perhaps we have different definitions of support, but you seem to think anyone whos not a carry is support whereas i would define it as the person who buys wards, chicken, tps etc. gx and ch are the players who are support on ftd, imo. even when yyf plays lion or ES, he doesn't buy wards in order to farm an early dagger, which is why i don't consider him a support player.

i think that ch is overrated in the sense that everyone likes to talk about how every player is equally skilled on ftd, but i think he's worse than his teammates. he's obviously still a great player, and if you win every match over a 2 month period you can't have any "weak" players, but he makes a much higher percentage of mistakes and stupid plays, compared to his teammates.

hideo's analysis of 2009s play is correct, imo. he quite often plays heroes that have are extremely strong in midgame, and have strong pushing power, and leads the pressure when zsmj needs to farm his core items.

the pressure forces teams to either attempt to fight 4v4 against mid-game heroes or give up their towers. when they pull their carry off to attempt to defend 4v5, ftd just back off and make him waste farm.

also @ hideo; agreed about european replays, only reason i ever watch them is that misery is the most entertaining player right now imo, so good and agressive, really could give a shit about his attitude/ragequitting

On May 24 2010 04:28 Judicator wrote:


3 games total where I can say I played well against good competition and did what I set out to do. Out of close to 3 to 4 thousand games.

On May 24 2010 11:02 uberMatt wrote:


perhaps we have different definitions of support, but you seem to think anyone whos not a carry is support whereas i would define it as the person who buys wards, chicken, tps etc. gx and ch are the players who are support on ftd, imo. even when yyf plays lion or ES, he doesn't buy wards in order to farm an early dagger, which is why i don't consider him a support player.

i think that ch is overrated in the sense that everyone likes to talk about how every player is equally skilled on ftd, but i think he's worse than his teammates. he's obviously still a great player, and if you win every match over a 2 month period you can't have any "weak" players, but he makes a much higher percentage of mistakes and stupid plays, compared to his teammates.

hideo's analysis of 2009s play is correct, imo. he quite often plays heroes that have are extremely strong in midgame, and have strong pushing power, and leads the pressure when zsmj needs to farm his core items.

the pressure forces teams to either attempt to fight 4v4 against mid-game heroes or give up their towers. when they pull their carry off to attempt to defend 4v5, ftd just back off and make him waste farm.

also @ hideo; agreed about european replays, only reason i ever watch them is that misery is the most entertaining player right now imo, so good and agressive, really could give a shit about his attitude/ragequitting

On May 24 2010 11:46 Ack1027 wrote:
Hmmm I may have to look into LGD.sGty and the ZSMJ character. Been a while since I bothered to follow comp dota.

Imho, LoH is the greatest carry to ever play the game. Purely looking at the role of a carry and understanding what that means as a former player and team leader, he is without a doubt in my mind the best. Watching him play was one of the few times where I could actually feel this guy was intelligent solely through his game play and decisions.



To be fair to yourself, you do have to consider that you probably have only played between 50-100 games against players you would consider good. So 3 games total out of 50 or 100 is not that harsh of a ratio.

On May 24 2010 12:51 Judicator wrote:


You didn't see my games in 27-37. I ringed for a CAL-M/IM team that held their own against coL, first time being a ward bitch in my life and I failed at it, even when I had 3 IHCS level players supporting my ass. It was full of fucking fail.

Honestly, the Chinese players, any of them do not impress me much (they still don't), they run solid strategies and execute team fights very well, but it's very mechanical and predictable. I will say this though, if the top Euro teams have Merlini's and/or Fear's experience in playing during the 27 era, Asian style would be countered pretty soundly.

On May 24 2010 15:59 paper wrote:
WOW NOW MY WRIST WILL HEAL FROM THE LACK OF SCROLLING GEEZ

On May 24 2010 16:28 semantics wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120560
Let's blame meeple