EPT[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 560
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
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paper
13196 Posts
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
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Dark.Carnival
United States5095 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
Deva and Alv are solo players who don't play with the team? ;p You really wanna go down that route? ;p Dev is the type of person to pick CM because some faggot ogre mage like you wouldn't buy wards properly then be super underlevelled as our 3 gankers wonder why they are failing miserably with no wards. (Because they're all too cheap to do their jobs and scratch their heads why they fail). That's why halfway through the game I said... 'oh i see... it's one of thoooose games... alright then'. As I said, I thought about who we played with and I figured their head just wasn't really there that game. L doesn't count, he's just your average baddie. If they were that bad their win % would be really low. The rest of TL could get a good win % just from playing with me, but both Deva and Alv are certainly better in every regard as an ally than pretty much anyone else in TL and actually work quite well together. Hence why I'm just gonna write it off as an off game. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On October 08 2009 15:50 MYM.Testie wrote: Dev is the type of person to pick CM because some faggot ogre mage like you wouldn't buy wards properly then be super underlevelled as our 3 gankers wonder why they are failing miserably with no wards. (Because they're all too cheap to do their jobs and scratch their heads why they fail). That's why halfway through the game I said... 'oh i see... it's one of thoooose games... alright then'. As I said, I thought about who we played with and I figured their head just wasn't really there that game. L doesn't count, he's just your average baddie. If they were that bad their win % would be really low. The rest of TL could get a good win % just from playing with me, but both Deva and Alv are certainly better in every regard as an ally than pretty much anyone else in TL and actually work quite well together. Hence why I'm just gonna write it off as an off game. the exact same thing happened last game devaz was arachna and i also was a strength ganker again (electrician) and we laned top together.. i think it's more like he's trying to carry with him or he doesnt realize it's played like viper..i dunno. also i think the fact that it's a pub not a cw, nor does he have his cw allies also factors into his logic as well. yes alven will pretty much play with his team most every game but i guess had an off game or was just trying to babysit/control bottom lane. i dont know of this ogre magi game you speak of but it sounds awful, who'd wanna play with that guy? apparently you remember this game pretty vividly, im sorry it happened. but i hope you know I wouldnt let that happen again, I'm the one who gets on people's cases for not warding properly, i'd hope that i could at least do it myself. Bullshit eh? Deva and Alv are solo players who don't play with the team? ;p You really wanna go down that route? ;p and btw in my previous post i was really just thinking about your average TL game where people often dont play as a team, obviously alven and for the most part devaz dont have that issue. edit: to be honest i think devaz is more complicated than just labeling him as a team player.. i have little complaints about the way he plays still. like when i lane with him he'll often not be ready to jump their heroes when an opportunity arises.. say their hero will be in a good position to go for and i'll initiate but he'll be too far back or in the middle of last hitting and will just barely miss the opportunity, or vice versa and he wont initiate and will last hit instead despite a good opportunity arising. another issue that is a little more important to me is that i think that even in the games where he does gank and help the team, often (not always but often) he'll spend i think a bit too much time farming. for example something I sometimes notice from him is like there will be some great chances/times to gank, but he'll be farming during those times and come out to gank/roam later when it's more convenient for him. Other times he'll break away from the team to go farm some waves rather than stay, usually with some kind of logical reason as it doesn't look like we're going to immediately go gank or fight someone or something. I don't know, it's hard to describe really, now I feel like im nitpicking here and I sound like I dont think he's a good player... he definitely is and maybe that's why I'm being so picky about him and just wish he'd do a few things differently | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On October 08 2009 15:50 MYM.Testie wrote: Bullshit eh? Deva and Alv are solo players who don't play with the team? ;p You really wanna go down that route? ;p Dev is the type of person to pick CM because some faggot ogre mage like you wouldn't buy wards properly then be super underlevelled as our 3 gankers wonder why they are failing miserably with no wards. (Because they're all too cheap to do their jobs and scratch their heads why they fail). That's why halfway through the game I said... 'oh i see... it's one of thoooose games... alright then'. As I said, I thought about who we played with and I figured their head just wasn't really there that game. L doesn't count, he's just your average baddie. If they were that bad their win % would be really low. The rest of TL could get a good win % just from playing with me, but both Deva and Alv are certainly better in every regard as an ally than pretty much anyone else in TL and actually work quite well together. Hence why I'm just gonna write it off as an off game. tl;dr | ||
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
to respond directly to DC's post, it's more like im just frustrated with the average TL style game that lacks teamwork/teamplay | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
EDIT NOTE: you all suck, i am the bestest at dota/hon ez | ||
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
In HoN, most games are decided before core items are completed. Two of my, to date, favorite HoN games have been with Solodolo as carry w/Predator (n'aix-ish) and me as support w/Demented Shaman (dazzle-ish). First of all, it's a really strong lane so we do fine early deflecting ganks and getting early kills. Then around 6 minutes we settle into our early game items and take down our lane's first tower. Then we tp mid and 3v1 mid to take down that tower, then we tp bot and either 5v2 that lane or have our first big teamfight and take down that tower. Only after the enemy is on the back of their feet do we start to farm casually, taking what the enemy gives us in the form of gank opportunities and lane-pushes. There seems to be more momentum in that style of play. Back when I played DotA inhouses with you guys it seemed like the point of the game was to gank testie into oblivion and if you failed he'd eventually farm up enough to carry his team. This creates habits of farming until you have your core, then farming some more while you wait for the carries to get fed enough to teamfight. It's a fine strategy if you can pull it off, and clearly Testie/Dev/Alv/DC can, but if you can't it sorta falls flat on its face to a team that pushes before cores get completed. This also seems to be the difference between my pub experience in HoN (and I suspect Zelniq's), and my TLn experience with HoN. Early on I struggled alot with my PSR, because I was determined to pub until I felt comfortable with the game and I played to farm. I'd farm, then pick up my items and go back to my lane to farm again (maybe throwing a gank in there for variety), and if I got ganked I'd farm even harder to make up for it cuz that's how my TL inhouses went. Problem was, I'm not good enough to carry my team with farmed items and neither were the pubs I played with. The more I play HoN pubs, though, the more I get involved and even instigate teamfights. They happen earlier and more often, and my PSR has recovered from it's lowest depths of 1290 to where I'm at right now with >1600. Amazingly, my CS is about the same. Anyway, I think my point is that there's a metagame shift happening in HoN pubs and Zelniq wants to see TL players adopt it. I'm not experienced enough to know which metagame is ultimately better, but maybe this VOD can inform thought on the matter: (part 1 of 5) Pokerstars vs Quality Control | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
It's like Helen Keller and Captain Obvious paired up and decided to cast it :/ | ||
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
I'm more interested in how a team I've never heard of rolled a solid DotA team like Pokerstars | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On October 08 2009 19:27 Tadzio wrote: yeah, esports casters in general are pretty bad and they're worse for games no one knows anything about (I think a game in beta qualifies). lower your expectations or just turn off the sound. + Show Spoiler + I'm more interested in how a team I've never heard of rolled a solid DotA team like Pokerstars I've seen their recruiting advert on HoN forums and their captain is very very knowledgeable on mechanics and meta game in both HoN and Dota. I have no idea who Pokerstars are tbh, but they are probably nowhere near the level of actual top teams like Pgg, DTS, MYM or EG. QuC take the game very seriously from what I gathered :p Guess they just wanted it more. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29904 Posts
fu Bultigroove, You made me look stupid :D | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On October 08 2009 17:35 Tadzio wrote: I've never really played more than pubs and friendly inhouses with you guys, but it seems to me that the metagames are different when you compare DotA to HoN. In DotA it seemed to be a perfectly legitimate strategy to simply survive while you farm and then support your carry as he leads you to victory. In HoN, most games are decided before core items are completed. Two of my, to date, favorite HoN games have been with Solodolo as carry w/Predator (n'aix-ish) and me as support w/Demented Shaman (dazzle-ish). First of all, it's a really strong lane so we do fine early deflecting ganks and getting early kills. Then around 6 minutes we settle into our early game items and take down our lane's first tower. Then we tp mid and 3v1 mid to take down that tower, then we tp bot and either 5v2 that lane or have our first big teamfight and take down that tower. Only after the enemy is on the back of their feet do we start to farm casually, taking what the enemy gives us in the form of gank opportunities and lane-pushes. There seems to be more momentum in that style of play. Back when I played DotA inhouses with you guys it seemed like the point of the game was to gank testie into oblivion and if you failed he'd eventually farm up enough to carry his team. This creates habits of farming until you have your core, then farming some more while you wait for the carries to get fed enough to teamfight. It's a fine strategy if you can pull it off, and clearly Testie/Dev/Alv/DC can, but if you can't it sorta falls flat on its face to a team that pushes before cores get completed. This also seems to be the difference between my pub experience in HoN (and I suspect Zelniq's), and my TLn experience with HoN. Early on I struggled alot with my PSR, because I was determined to pub until I felt comfortable with the game and I played to farm. I'd farm, then pick up my items and go back to my lane to farm again (maybe throwing a gank in there for variety), and if I got ganked I'd farm even harder to make up for it cuz that's how my TL inhouses went. Problem was, I'm not good enough to carry my team with farmed items and neither were the pubs I played with. The more I play HoN pubs, though, the more I get involved and even instigate teamfights. They happen earlier and more often, and my PSR has recovered from it's lowest depths of 1290 to where I'm at right now with >1600. Amazingly, my CS is about the same. Anyway, I think my point is that there's a metagame shift happening in HoN pubs and Zelniq wants to see TL players adopt it. I'm not experienced enough to know which metagame is ultimately better, but maybe this VOD can inform thought on the matter: (part 1 of 5) Pokerstars vs Quality Control http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCnm4cpuvyI I've played against QuC in some 2k+ games, pretty decent players. However, like all "pro" dota players they are angry nerds who rage way to much and talk shit. | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29904 Posts
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29904 Posts
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