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On August 07 2011 05:16 JeeJee wrote:
Holy crap izzy is mad, he's using punctuation. Notjack, you better step away before you get hurt man.
As for 'easy' heroes.. honestly I think it's heroes that are easy to understand -- andro and slither come to mind. Even if it's somebody's first time, they can "comet someone, aurora everyone, and swap if you can't get in comet range). Yeah you probably won't see clutch swaps or well timed stuns, but since you're talking beginner heroes, you're talking 1500 level, so it doesn't matter.
Same for slither. "spam your wards, spray heroes, and try and ult a bunch of people". And the best part is, even with no items, they can still do it and be "okay".
I don't think moonqueen is an easy hero at all, not only does she need farm and great positioning, but she's really easy to fuck up, too. And a new player will probably die with her. A lot. And on a hard carry, that matters.
Don't go ruining my fun also I'm still me i didn't use punctuations for he'll.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0SJe8.jpg)
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you can tell how well-designed a hero is by the number of active abilities it has
that's why swiftblade, moon-queen, sr, ra, etc are the best heroes
if only leoric was ported
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Need to port old naix, one button the ult everything else :D
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Is there a team that will play with me ?
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On August 07 2011 05:29 keyStorm wrote:
Is there a team that will play with me ?
I'm afraid I have to tell you that no, there currently isn't nor ever will be a team willing to play with you.
Ok, that was funny, now which game are you referring to? If you want dota I can play some games with you, if you want hon someone else will help you I bet.
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Semantics I don't get how me saying I understand what you're saying makes you think I don't understand what you're saying. Stop freaking out.
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what's Hon's leaver %? i still can't join games with a 7.9% D/C rate... Do i have to lower it to 5%?
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On August 07 2011 06:22 rei wrote:
what's Hon's leaver %? i still can't join games with a 7.9% D/C rate... Do i have to lower it to 5%?
Yes
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On August 07 2011 02:32 NotJack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 00:01 SirMilford wrote:On August 06 2011 22:45 BurningSera wrote:On August 06 2011 21:59 Firebolt145 wrote:
Cursed ground is malediction right? Since when did it have a channel time?
Witch slayer is easily easier than vd. You've got two disables, a spell that gets you mana back, and an ulti that simply does a fuckton of damage. Easy as. ye i know right, maledict in hon has a small delay when casting it. the gf told me the other day >_> best entry hero in hon - if you are from dota you shouldnt have any problem to use the dota heroes (most of they are the exact same); for complete newbie i'd say int=plague rider, agi = moonqueen, str = magmus. you will learn to manage your regen/mana pool and how to engage enemies from these heroes. Armadon=easiest strength hero. Magmus you need to utilize those dodges Magmus is one of the hardest heroes in the game, I don't get why people who don't know much try to help new players.
yes a well played magmus needed some skills but at the same time he is a very good entry hero as in by using him a newbie can learn about the game. whats the fun and what can you learn from 4xclick and you kill the oppo heroes(i am looking at you S2's panda/monkey king)?
Yes the newbie will die when he started to play magmus (just like any other hero anyway), but in the one game time,
he will learn about when to/not to stun so he doesnt get killed, positioning and timing is extremely strategic,
he can also learn about using sandstorm to save himself from 'troubles', learn about the invi mechanism, and how some spells can counter invi so he cant use this sandstorm to turtle forever,
and how last hit can be rewarding,
and how a successful landed ulti can be very powerful (again positioning blah blah, channeling time blah blah).
and later he can find out the use of dagger to further discover what can he do with this hero.
oh. i love you dota. <3
p/s; you dont need to be insulting even if i said something wrong. ohyes, i certainly not some pro dota/hon player, but are you? be nice please.
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On August 07 2011 08:52 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 02:32 NotJack wrote:On August 07 2011 00:01 SirMilford wrote:On August 06 2011 22:45 BurningSera wrote:On August 06 2011 21:59 Firebolt145 wrote:
Cursed ground is malediction right? Since when did it have a channel time?
Witch slayer is easily easier than vd. You've got two disables, a spell that gets you mana back, and an ulti that simply does a fuckton of damage. Easy as. ye i know right, maledict in hon has a small delay when casting it. the gf told me the other day >_> best entry hero in hon - if you are from dota you shouldnt have any problem to use the dota heroes (most of they are the exact same); for complete newbie i'd say int=plague rider, agi = moonqueen, str = magmus. you will learn to manage your regen/mana pool and how to engage enemies from these heroes. Armadon=easiest strength hero. Magmus you need to utilize those dodges Magmus is one of the hardest heroes in the game, I don't get why people who don't know much try to help new players. yes a well played magmus needed some skills but at the same time he is a very good entry hero as in by using him a newbie can learn about the game. whats the fun and what can you learn from 4xclick and you kill the oppo heroes(i am looking at you S2's panda/monkey king)? Yes the newbie will die when he started to play magmus (just like any other hero anyway), but in the one game time, he will learn about when to/not to stun so he doesnt get killed, positioning and timing is extremely strategic, he can also learn about using sandstorm to save himself from 'troubles', learn about the invi mechanism, and how some spells can counter invi so he cant use this sandstorm to turtle forever, and how last hit can be rewarding, and how a successful landed ulti can be very powerful (again positioning blah blah, channeling time blah blah). and later he can find out the use of dagger to further discover what can he do with this hero. oh. i love you dota. <3 p/s; you dont need to be insulting even if i said something wrong. ohyes, i certainly not some pro dota/hon player, but are you? be nice please.
You're giving too much credit to newbies. Anyways, when I started playing I played Visage (old), Bane Elemental and Venomancer. Silencer and Sand King were my first competitive level heroes. I am obviously talking about DotA, but again you're giving newbies too much credit, the only way said newbie will learn all of the things you referred to is by being taught, not through trial and error.
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On August 07 2011 05:16 JeeJee wrote:
I don't think moonqueen is an easy hero at all, not only does she need farm and great positioning, but she's really easy to fuck up, too. And a new player will probably die with her. A lot. And on a hard carry, that matters.
nah i dont think mq is a very easy hero either, but out of all the agi heroes in hon, she is imo the most nooby friendly agi. why? simple, all you need to worry is 2 buttons QR (and make suitable items for her). also she is not that kind of (very hard) carry so a dual lane is not a huge problem (remember these are >=1500 games).
is actually one button Q, even complete newbie know you dont simply use ulti i guess.
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On August 07 2011 09:12 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 08:52 BurningSera wrote:On August 07 2011 02:32 NotJack wrote:On August 07 2011 00:01 SirMilford wrote:On August 06 2011 22:45 BurningSera wrote:On August 06 2011 21:59 Firebolt145 wrote:
Cursed ground is malediction right? Since when did it have a channel time?
Witch slayer is easily easier than vd. You've got two disables, a spell that gets you mana back, and an ulti that simply does a fuckton of damage. Easy as. ye i know right, maledict in hon has a small delay when casting it. the gf told me the other day >_> best entry hero in hon - if you are from dota you shouldnt have any problem to use the dota heroes (most of they are the exact same); for complete newbie i'd say int=plague rider, agi = moonqueen, str = magmus. you will learn to manage your regen/mana pool and how to engage enemies from these heroes. Armadon=easiest strength hero. Magmus you need to utilize those dodges Magmus is one of the hardest heroes in the game, I don't get why people who don't know much try to help new players. yes a well played magmus needed some skills but at the same time he is a very good entry hero as in by using him a newbie can learn about the game. whats the fun and what can you learn from 4xclick and you kill the oppo heroes(i am looking at you S2's panda/monkey king)? Yes the newbie will die when he started to play magmus (just like any other hero anyway), but in the one game time, he will learn about when to/not to stun so he doesnt get killed, positioning and timing is extremely strategic, he can also learn about using sandstorm to save himself from 'troubles', learn about the invi mechanism, and how some spells can counter invi so he cant use this sandstorm to turtle forever, and how last hit can be rewarding, and how a successful landed ulti can be very powerful (again positioning blah blah, channeling time blah blah). and later he can find out the use of dagger to further discover what can he do with this hero. oh. i love you dota. <3 p/s; you dont need to be insulting even if i said something wrong. ohyes, i certainly not some pro dota/hon player, but are you? be nice please. You're giving too much credit to newbies. Anyways, when I started playing I played Visage (old), Bane Elemental and Venomancer. Silencer and Sand King were my first competitive level heroes. I am obviously talking about DotA, but again you're giving newbies too much credit, the only way said newbie will learn all of the things you referred to is by being taught, not through trial and error.
ah maybe i did giving too much credits to them :3 but it can practically be done. I hope that a newbie would at least try to read the handy guide system before they leave the base with the hero. we didnt have much (good) hero guide back then but nowadays newbie have so much resources.
my first hero is actually zeus XD which i do not recommend any newbie try that unless you play with m8 who totally look after you. and then you bet it Sandking was my all time favourite hero after that, which i truly believe that it is such a fun and balanced hero and newbie can learn so much from using it.
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Actually it can't be practically done if you're playing by yourself. You try introducing someone completely new to DotA/HoN and ask them play by themselves, then see how far they get.
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On August 07 2011 09:28 Judicator wrote:
Actually it can't be practically done if you're playing by yourself. You try introducing someone completely new to DotA/HoN and ask them play by themselves, then see how far they get.
by that logic a newbie wont learn any hero anyway.
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On August 07 2011 09:34 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 09:28 Judicator wrote:
Actually it can't be practically done if you're playing by yourself. You try introducing someone completely new to DotA/HoN and ask them play by themselves, then see how far they get. by that logic a newbie wont learn any hero anyway.
They don't learn any hero properly. You honestly think pros got to where they are by solo-queuing or solo play? Doesn't work like that, DotA/HoN simply doesn't allow that. The biggest problem isn't knowing what each hero does, the biggest problem is that at lower-mid levels there is a horrible problem of pigeonholing for up and coming players.
Edit:
I should clarify some more, it's a matter of knowing how to play the hero versus understanding the hero, DotA/HoN is a game of subtleties, most players over look the little things that matter.
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there is a certain point you should have reached before giving out advice to others in complex games such as this, and that point is when you actually understand the basics of the game.
an example for this would be losing a match and being able to point out exactly why and where this game was lost, and not just pinning blame on one or two players in the game and be done with it.(while this is a possibility, its usually not the entire truth)
another example would be chosing items and skills of your hero not based on a guide or just what you saw someone get before but instead based on the current state of the game, trying to find the optimal solution to win.
the problem with giving advice without having the above insight is that you are not able to differentiate between good and bad advice in most cases, because most things you know about the game are not based on sound logic or "proven" theorems but instead a limited experience of the game that has very little to do with the former two aspects.
that is all.
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Which is why you need buddies who are better than you to play with in order for you to advance quickly.
Or you can do what I did and play DotA for so long and come to the realization that I was playing it all kinds of wrong and stupid.
Honestly, it's about watching replays once you understand what heroes do, or understanding what a single hero can and can not do. Even then it gets really messy and complicated really fast.
I hope DotA 2 will have a system where some people can commentate on the course of the game during a replay. Like little pop-ups or voice overs to explain like hey this is why X did Y with Z. There isn't a good tutorial for these kind of games and experience is the only way you'll learn, except being able to analyze your experience and lessons isn't possible unless you have the necessary knowledge in the first place. All of which leads back to someone teaching you what's up.
Edit:
Basically, the easiest and most effective way I've found to learn and progress once past the initial how the skills work stage is to watch replays on top players and ask yourself if you would have done what they did or what you would have done differently.
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On August 07 2011 08:52 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 02:32 NotJack wrote:On August 07 2011 00:01 SirMilford wrote:On August 06 2011 22:45 BurningSera wrote:On August 06 2011 21:59 Firebolt145 wrote:
Cursed ground is malediction right? Since when did it have a channel time?
Witch slayer is easily easier than vd. You've got two disables, a spell that gets you mana back, and an ulti that simply does a fuckton of damage. Easy as. ye i know right, maledict in hon has a small delay when casting it. the gf told me the other day >_> best entry hero in hon - if you are from dota you shouldnt have any problem to use the dota heroes (most of they are the exact same); for complete newbie i'd say int=plague rider, agi = moonqueen, str = magmus. you will learn to manage your regen/mana pool and how to engage enemies from these heroes. Armadon=easiest strength hero. Magmus you need to utilize those dodges Magmus is one of the hardest heroes in the game, I don't get why people who don't know much try to help new players. yes a well played magmus needed some skills but at the same time he is a very good entry hero as in by using him a newbie can learn about the game. whats the fun and what can you learn from 4xclick and you kill the oppo heroes(i am looking at you S2's panda/monkey king)? Yes the newbie will die when he started to play magmus (just like any other hero anyway), but in the one game time, he will learn about when to/not to stun so he doesnt get killed, positioning and timing is extremely strategic, he can also learn about using sandstorm to save himself from 'troubles', learn about the invi mechanism, and how some spells can counter invi so he cant use this sandstorm to turtle forever, and how last hit can be rewarding, and how a successful landed ulti can be very powerful (again positioning blah blah, channeling time blah blah). and later he can find out the use of dagger to further discover what can he do with this hero. oh. i love you dota. <3 p/s; you dont need to be insulting even if i said something wrong. ohyes, i certainly not some pro dota/hon player, but are you? be nice please.
If you're argument is that the more complicated a hero is the more a new player can learn, than you're right, but if you ask any pro player they will say Plague Witch are the two starter characters. I wasn't even attacking you so don't worry, just a little pet peeve of mine from writing guides.
Also besides all the nuances to each one of Magmus' abilities, the main reason he's a tough new player hero is because of his low armor and base damage. There are players who have played for a year who still don't understand how to lane melee against ranged, and Magmus is literally the worst for that situation.
Coincidentally the first hero I played was Lion because I thought finger of death sounded awesome =P Doing right things for the wrong reasons ftw.
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On August 07 2011 10:19 Judicator wrote:
Which is why you need buddies who are better than you to play with in order for you to advance quickly.
Or you can do what I did and play DotA for so long and come to the realization that I was playing it all kinds of wrong and stupid.
Honestly, it's about watching replays once you understand what heroes do, or understanding what a single hero can and can not do. Even then it gets really messy and complicated really fast.
I hope DotA 2 will have a system where some people can commentate on the course of the game during a replay. Like little pop-ups or voice overs to explain like hey this is why X did Y with Z. There isn't a good tutorial for these kind of games and experience is the only way you'll learn, except being able to analyze your experience and lessons isn't possible unless you have the necessary knowledge in the first place. All of which leads back to someone teaching you what's up.
Edit:
Basically, the easiest and most effective way I've found to learn and progress once past the initial how the skills work stage is to watch replays on top players and ask yourself if you would have done what they did or what you would have done differently.
Sounds like me!
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EPT
