EPT[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 1441
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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supdubdup
United States916 Posts
No hate. Here's to hoping Dota 2 will be good enough to grab members from the HoN community and LoL community and Dota community to make it the primary MOBA game. | ||
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tempestulti
14 Posts
On July 31 2011 04:19 FinestHour wrote: Dont be bad hurrrrrrrrdurrrrrrr Sound familiar? Are you Ganfei3? Thanks for being a dick and not helping at the same time about it though. User was banned for this post. | ||
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Ganfei2
473 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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NotJack
United States737 Posts
On July 31 2011 05:46 supdubdup wrote: No hate. Here's to hoping Dota 2 will be good enough to grab members from the HoN community and LoL community and Dota community to make it the primary MOBA game. Saying a game is hopefully dead constitutes hate. I don't understand how the first two of those posts don't get warnings. Seems the mods don't like HoN as much as other games. I'm seeing as drunken master not being that great of a hero at the moment. He does have nice abilities to keep him alive but he doesn't have as big of a role in teamfights as someone like Kraken. Monkey king's awesome as there's a lot of nuances to his combo's, and definitely can dish out the hurt better (even if it's way too similar to pandamonium). | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
On July 31 2011 06:38 NotJack wrote: Saying a game is hopefully dead constitutes hate. I don't understand how the first two of those posts don't get warnings. Seems the mods don't like HoN as much as other games. I'm seeing as drunken master not being that great of a hero at the moment. He does have nice abilities to keep him alive but he doesn't have as big of a role in teamfights as someone like Kraken. Monkey king's awesome as there's a lot of nuances to his combo's, and definitely can dish out the hurt better (even if it's way too similar to pandamonium). because some people play hon and hate some aspects of the game. cant love all games all the way the first comment is somewhat true, if you look at up and coming tourneys, are there any other big ones other than NASL2 and dreamhack winter? i think theres one other LAN too, i dont remember what it was, but even dota still has ESWC, SMM, WDC | ||
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
My opinion is that all eSports are bad spectator games so the only thing that matters for viewers is how big the playerbase is. The more players a game has, the more spectators it will have. It doesn't matter if a game is better suited for competition or not, a game with more players will have more spectators. Why do you think CoD has such huge tournaments? That being said, competitive HoN is dying pretty steadily, and with NASL HoN coming up and the game going free, HoN might gain a surge of new players but who knows. The community isn't exactly welcoming towards new players either, and to a fresh, casual player HoN and LoL are the same thing, and their friends probably play LoL | ||
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lepape
Canada557 Posts
On July 31 2011 05:44 xZiGGY wrote: <-- only person in the world who actually doesnt mind drunken master too much simply because he gets +80 movement speed and damage at lv7 and this is the kind of crap I like to play around with since I am trash pub player Drunken Master is fun, but not that well designed imo. He's interesting and certainly has the potential to own, but there's just better heroes to fill the same roles. If someone has a replay of someone completely owning with DM agaisnt a good team, I'd love to watch it. It's either hit or miss with S2 lately, some heroes are really awesome (Emerald Warden), while others are fun, but don't seem to fill a specific role well (Parasite). At least Drunken Master has the best alt avatar in the game so far. | ||
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NotJack
United States737 Posts
On July 31 2011 04:26 LordWeird wrote: TMM with TL: Queue against Testie. Highest MMR player rages that bubbles takes farm and dcs. We remake. Dodge a bullet. Whew. Then... Get raped on Jiggle_Billy's stream Sorry about that, we just had a better teamfight team imo. Top lane was fun though in the beginning, myrm sitting is always strange. | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
On July 31 2011 08:17 GhostKorean wrote: Isn't NASL pretty big. My opinion is that all eSports are bad spectator games so the only thing that matters for viewers is how big the playerbase is. The more players a game has, the more spectators it will have. It doesn't matter if a game is better suited for competition or not, a game with more players will have more spectators. Why do you think CoD has such huge tournaments? That being said, competitive HoN is dying pretty steadily, and with NASL HoN coming up and the game going free, HoN might gain a surge of new players but who knows. The community isn't exactly welcoming towards new players either, and to a fresh, casual player HoN and LoL are the same thing, and their friends probably play LoL competitive scene is not esports, a competitive video game scene doesnt need esports. and anyway, we all know esports is a farce | ||
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Alaron
United States225 Posts
On July 31 2011 08:17 GhostKorean wrote: Isn't NASL pretty big. My opinion is that all eSports are bad spectator games so the only thing that matters for viewers is how big the playerbase is. The more players a game has, the more spectators it will have. It doesn't matter if a game is better suited for competition or not, a game with more players will have more spectators. Why do you think CoD has such huge tournaments? That being said, competitive HoN is dying pretty steadily, and with NASL HoN coming up and the game going free, HoN might gain a surge of new players but who knows. The community isn't exactly welcoming towards new players either, and to a fresh, casual player HoN and LoL are the same thing, and their friends probably play LoL Competitive HoN is dying? This is news to me. Proof? | ||
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
On July 31 2011 08:42 rabidch wrote: competitive scene is not esports, a competitive video game scene doesnt need esports. and anyway, we all know esports is a farce That's an interesting perspective. Couldn't you argue that viewers fuel tournaments, and tournaments drive competition | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On July 31 2011 09:01 GhostKorean wrote: That's an interesting perspective. Couldn't you argue that viewers fuel tournaments, and tournaments drive competition No, you can't argue for that in a 5v5 team game where the players shuffle with no end. Stability builds popularity. | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
On July 31 2011 09:01 GhostKorean wrote: That's an interesting perspective. Couldn't you argue that viewers fuel tournaments, and tournaments drive competition competitive scenes have existed for decades without need of streams. viewers correlates a little with more money but it shouldnt determine whether or not a game gets a scene. how the players feel about the game should | ||
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
Competition will obviously still exist even without sponsors but how big the scene is able to get relies entirely on how much money someone is willing to put into it. Without an incentive to stick around, competitive players will constantly shuffle around as Judicator pointed out and eventually the scene will die when the game is forgotten for other games And rabidch I disagree with your statement. I feel that a competitive scene correlates directly with the number of viewers a tournament can get. Look at Brood War outside of Korea for an example. No doubt it was a great game and it had a huge following even 10 years after it's release but it had no viewers to fuel a competitive scene. The community could argue all it wants how great of a game it was and it could even point to the Korean scene as proof but outside of Korea not enough people cared about the game enough for someone to come out set up tournaments for foreigners outside of the one TSL event Brood War had. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
It's just a different trajectory to mainstream, whether it's actually achievable or not. I mentioned earlier that DotA/HoN/LoL doesn't hinge on the players or teams as much as it does on the commentators, more so than any other game. Right now, there's no face of DotA/HoN/LoL, no personality that just sits in the back of your mind when you think of these games; there are players and teams for sure, but no personality. There isn't a Day[9], a Mike Ross/Gootecks, or anything of the sort, and given the 5v5 nature of the scene, there won't be one from the players side. | ||
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Fatmatt2000
United States159 Posts
On July 31 2011 08:17 GhostKorean wrote: Isn't NASL pretty big. My opinion is that all eSports are bad spectator games so the only thing that matters for viewers is how big the playerbase is. The more players a game has, the more spectators it will have. It doesn't matter if a game is better suited for competition or not, a game with more players will have more spectators. Why do you think CoD has such huge tournaments? That being said, competitive HoN is dying pretty steadily, and with NASL HoN coming up and the game going free, HoN might gain a surge of new players but who knows. The community isn't exactly welcoming towards new players either, and to a fresh, casual player HoN and LoL are the same thing, and their friends probably play LoL I dont disagree with you in principle, but I do honestly believe that Street Fighter is actually a very good spectator game. All the action is clear and on the screen, and it doesn't take more than 5 minutes of watching to understand the tensions going on between the players/ in the game. | ||
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Alaron
United States225 Posts
Competitive HoN is dead? What a joke... | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On July 31 2011 09:43 Fatmatt2000 wrote: I dont disagree with you in principle, but I do honestly believe that Street Fighter is actually a very good spectator game. All the action is clear and on the screen, and it doesn't take more than 5 minutes of watching to understand the tensions going on between the players/ in the game. So is DotA when its well-casted...the problem is there aren't any good English casters. It honestly doesn't take that much to understand what is going on in a team fight, the casters should have primed the audience what is going on with the line ups, hell you have like at least 5 minutes to slowly get the audience use to the critical aspects...except nobody does it and the most popular casters are busy jerking off to each hero without really saying anything worthwhile to drag the casuals in. | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
On July 31 2011 09:28 GhostKorean wrote: But with the constant shuffling of players and teams you can never achieve stability in the scene and therefore no popularity. Sponsors start looking elsewhere to invest and you stop getting tournaments and people move on to different games for competition Competition will obviously still exist even without sponsors but how big the scene is able to get relies entirely on how much money someone is willing to put into it. Without an incentive to stick around, competitive players will constantly shuffle around as Judicator pointed out and eventually the scene will die when the game is forgotten for other games And rabidch I disagree with your statement. I feel that a competitive scene correlates directly with the number of viewers a tournament can get. Look at Brood War outside of Korea for an example. No doubt it was a great game and it had a huge following even 10 years after it's release but it had no viewers to fuel a competitive scene. The community could argue all it wants how great of a game it was and it could even point to the Korean scene as proof but outside of Korea not enough people cared about the game enough for someone to come out set up tournaments for foreigners outside of the one TSL event Brood War had. Brood War outside of Korea is a special case because there existed Brood War in Korea that was highly well known and had televised matches. Therefore the competitive scene outside Korea could never really be legitimized because it was always well known there were better people and more money in Korea, which was really where the competitive scene was. But if you look at ST and its variants, SSBM, and the early Quake and CS scenes there wasn't much of "viewership" as we know it today in stream numbers, but there was still a highly competitive scene. In fact it was only until recent years that Japan's most popular fighting game scenes opened up to sponsors, but for many fighting games are very low compared to some of the ESPORTS games thrown around today, but that doesn't mean they don't have a scene. Competition from these games shouldn't arise from wanting to win money, but from the game being fun to play and natural spirit of competition, so all it comes down to is how players feel about the game. Of course video game generations don't always cross over, so games will come and go but if a scene dies, viewer decrease is only one factor of many. Again, it's how the players feel about the game. | ||
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