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On May 23 2011 06:50 Ganfei2 wrote:
heh...hadn't played with legitimately 1600 players in so long I forgot how frustrating it is to deal with the arrogant ones who think they know anything.
It always boggles my mind how someone with a 50% winrate after 800 games, who is still stuck at just above 1600, can have such a high opinion of themselves and their ability to analyze this game.
I guess it's no different in any other game, though. D/D+'s thinking they're the shit, etc etc. Just forgot how irritating it is to play with such outrageously bad but completely oblivious players.
Just to clarify I have plenty of bad friends and I still enjoy the game, I'm talking about those who are awful but have no conception of it whatsoever.
The best is the people playing in a 1500 game or whatever, failing, and justifying it with "my other account is 1800".
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On May 23 2011 14:38 GhostKorean wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 11:57 AndyJay wrote:On May 23 2011 11:15 Judicator wrote:
Tears up shit when you're playing against Downy bears too. Let me waste 30 mins of my life when the game should have ended at 15 mins. Gotta agree with this... HoN's concede system is probably the biggest improvement in the whole game over dota, better than matchmaking, stat tracking and reconnect combined. Probably saved hours of my life from playing forgone games that should have ended 20 mins beforehand. And then people realize that 1. the other team gets more coins if they win within 25 minutes and 2. theres actually no way to destroy their tree/throne in that time so they wait it out and at 25:00 BAM theres the concede vote
I'm always amazed that there is ANYONE that cares about coins at all.
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On May 23 2011 09:24 AndyJay wrote:
Depends how you define it. I'd wager having a rating of 1600 (and probably even 1550) would put you above the average players rating.
I've found little difference in play in my experiences from 1600 to 1800. Better lane control is an obvious one but the other main one I find is hero choice. 1800 players routinely only pick heroes that pro players pick and will bitch and moan if you pick a 'bad' hero, although it really makes very little difference at that level still (as long as your lanes are decent). Another thing is tri lanes in 1800 games which usually fail hilariously.
obviously 1600 is above average considering the average mmr is (or was anyway) something like 1521 lol
considering im horrible at this game and solo mm'd my way up to 1800 with a good win ratio, in my experience:
<1600, totally clueless in all aspects
1600-1700 mostly clueless, a semblance of basic mechanics
1700-1800 starting to learn how to use skills properly but for the most part very shitty judgment (this category also seems to have the most know-it-alls who are in fact trash like myself. except i don't claim to know anything about this game because i know i'm terrible)
1800-1900 decent mechanics and okay judgment for the most part
1900+ legitimately good/impressive players
this is referring to the rating you're stable at, obv.
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what would you guys say is the best way to improve? replays? anyways
i just started again, i'm 1650 after around 40 games but i really like to improve fast. i'm forcing myself to be versatile by only playing sd and ar but i feel like that whenever i take sidelane or support i can't do enough. i'm getting the hang of warding and supporting.
i just want to throw out some random questions
-power supply vs chalice vs bottle?
- treads vs phase boots? i've been getting treads a lot and i just love the stat boost.
- carry items, i've seen generally a mix of people getting geometers/frostburn/frostwolf/ and some other damage item with a shrunken head thrown in. i've generally been leaning towards frostburn into geometers. suggestions?
- is there ever a good time to jungle instead of trilane?
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Power supply over chalice the vast vast majority of the time, bottle if you're mid or on top of power supply with some heroes
Treads most of the time phase boots some of the time, but for a lot of heroes it's personal preference or depends on your/their lineup
Depends heavily on your hero
Not in a super serious game unless you have a baller jungler like ophelia or tempest, and even then it's kind of questionable. But most of the time in pubs it's fine.
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On May 23 2011 15:12 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 09:24 AndyJay wrote:
Depends how you define it. I'd wager having a rating of 1600 (and probably even 1550) would put you above the average players rating.
I've found little difference in play in my experiences from 1600 to 1800. Better lane control is an obvious one but the other main one I find is hero choice. 1800 players routinely only pick heroes that pro players pick and will bitch and moan if you pick a 'bad' hero, although it really makes very little difference at that level still (as long as your lanes are decent). Another thing is tri lanes in 1800 games which usually fail hilariously. obviously 1600 is above average considering the average mmr is (or was anyway) something like 1521 lol considering im horrible at this game and solo mm'd my way up to 1800 with a good win ratio, in my experience: <1600, totally clueless in all aspects 1600-1700 mostly clueless, a semblance of basic mechanics 1700-1800 starting to learn how to use skills properly but for the most part very shitty judgment (this category also seems to have the most know-it-alls who are in fact trash like myself. except i don't claim to know anything about this game because i know i'm terrible) 1800-1900 decent mechanics and okay judgment for the most part 1900+ legitimately good/impressive players this is referring to the rating you're stable at, obv.
Lol thats really archaic but I do agree about the general 1700-1800 bracket. They seem to be the most outright arrogant.
You can have superb knowledge of the game but not the mechanics to back it up and vice versa. I just barely crawled myself past 1500 finally from 1200 and I notice that my general knowledge is a great deal above that of the average newer player even if it's still merely average...i just lack the mechanics at the moment to utilize that knowledge all the time. I usually know what I did wrong but in the heat of the moment you simply forget shit...only learned through practice.
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On May 23 2011 15:25 shawster wrote:
what would you guys say is the best way to improve? replays? anyways
i just started again, i'm 1650 after around 40 games but i really like to improve fast. i'm forcing myself to be versatile by only playing sd and ar but i feel like that whenever i take sidelane or support i can't do enough. i'm getting the hang of warding and supporting.
i just want to throw out some random questions
-power supply vs chalice vs bottle?
- treads vs phase boots? i've been getting treads a lot and i just love the stat boost.
- carry items, i've seen generally a mix of people getting geometers/frostburn/frostwolf/ and some other damage item with a shrunken head thrown in. i've generally been leaning towards frostburn into geometers. suggestions?
- is there ever a good time to jungle instead of trilane?
1. Power Supply is a great item and so is chalice. Bottle should only be if your mid and even then it is a no-no if your not a ganker. Never bottle first.
2. Treads are great but should only be gotten on heroes that need the attack boost or don't need phase. A hero like doctor repulsor who has his ult to fall back on can get treads for the stat boost. Same as hag and a few others. Carries are generally hard to place. If a carry has a stun or a method of escape treads are somewhat ok and can be gotten sometimes.
3. Each carry plays differently. The general item aim of a ranged agility carry is geos/frostwolf. Some get a null first if the other team is reliant on single targets. (Pyro, Witch, etc.) Melee carries are a different ball game you almost never go geos/frostwolf.
4. Almost never. Unless you can have a tempest roam/jung and a dual short lane it isn't as good.
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On May 23 2011 15:25 shawster wrote:
what would you guys say is the best way to improve? replays? anyways
i just started again, i'm 1650 after around 40 games but i really like to improve fast. i'm forcing myself to be versatile by only playing sd and ar but i feel like that whenever i take sidelane or support i can't do enough. i'm getting the hang of warding and supporting.
i just want to throw out some random questions
-power supply vs chalice vs bottle?
- treads vs phase boots? i've been getting treads a lot and i just love the stat boost.
- carry items, i've seen generally a mix of people getting geometers/frostburn/frostwolf/ and some other damage item with a shrunken head thrown in. i've generally been leaning towards frostburn into geometers. suggestions?
- is there ever a good time to jungle instead of trilane?
0. be motivated to get better
1. learn from mistakes
2. play with better and knowledgeable (sometimes not easily available) people who can teach you
3. always think about why things are done the way they are, and why somethings should be the way they are (ie question accepted strategies, dont blindly believe in them)
4. improve mechanics
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1. Chalice is a fucking terrible item the only person I'd get it on is maliken other than him bottle is the way to go. Mid heroes aren't always supposed to pick up bottle and sidelines can bottle too
2. Treads are definitely one of the best items in the game and you can never really go wrong with treads on almost any hero
3. Carries are pretty much played the same way you farm all game and only port in at the last second when there is a teamfight mostly so your team doesn't get raped an you can pick up some kills. Null is basically there to stop stuns from targeting you because other than that you just rip through everything. Also lol melee heroes the only good melee heroes are the ones who use their stun and then whack people on the head
4. If you're really doing trilanes correctly you really shouldn't even have to ask
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On May 23 2011 16:17 GhostKorean wrote:
2. Treads are definitely one of the best items in the game and you can never really go wrong with treads on almost any hero
In my opinion, treads are for people who are too lazy to click their item. I prefer phase or boot of travel or mana boot so I can up my apm.
Btw, I like how sunye is all of a sudden talking like he knows the game really well.
No offense. kekeke
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On May 23 2011 15:43 Jayme wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2011 15:12 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 09:24 AndyJay wrote:
Depends how you define it. I'd wager having a rating of 1600 (and probably even 1550) would put you above the average players rating.
I've found little difference in play in my experiences from 1600 to 1800. Better lane control is an obvious one but the other main one I find is hero choice. 1800 players routinely only pick heroes that pro players pick and will bitch and moan if you pick a 'bad' hero, although it really makes very little difference at that level still (as long as your lanes are decent). Another thing is tri lanes in 1800 games which usually fail hilariously. obviously 1600 is above average considering the average mmr is (or was anyway) something like 1521 lol considering im horrible at this game and solo mm'd my way up to 1800 with a good win ratio, in my experience: <1600, totally clueless in all aspects 1600-1700 mostly clueless, a semblance of basic mechanics 1700-1800 starting to learn how to use skills properly but for the most part very shitty judgment (this category also seems to have the most know-it-alls who are in fact trash like myself. except i don't claim to know anything about this game because i know i'm terrible) 1800-1900 decent mechanics and okay judgment for the most part 1900+ legitimately good/impressive players this is referring to the rating you're stable at, obv. Lol thats really archaic but I do agree about the general 1700-1800 bracket. They seem to be the most outright arrogant. You can have superb knowledge of the game but not the mechanics to back it up and vice versa. I just barely crawled myself past 1500 finally from 1200 and I notice that my general knowledge is a great deal above that of the average newer player even if it's still merely average...i just lack the mechanics at the moment to utilize that knowledge all the time. I usually know what I did wrong but in the heat of the moment you simply forget shit...only learned through practice.
You clearly haven't played enough at higher level then. No one is more arrogant than a 1850-1900+ who knows he is a decent player, hell some of them are such asshole that they ruin a game before the first creep wave has spawn just by being total dicks.
In my opinion, treads are for people who are too lazy to click their item. I prefer phase or boot of travel or mana boot so I can up my apm.
What about switching between stats to give you a slight mana/life boost or improve your regeneration through items?
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On May 23 2011 16:26 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 16:17 GhostKorean wrote:
2. Treads are definitely one of the best items in the game and you can never really go wrong with treads on almost any hero
In my opinion, treads are for people who are too lazy to click their item. I prefer phase or boot of travel or mana boot so I can up my apm. Btw, I like how sunye is all of a sudden talking like he knows the game really well. No offense. kekeke
Hey this is a hon discussion get out there will be none of this clicking business
I haven't played a decent game of hon in forever because I've been snuffing with some of the lower mmr people in the clan and I think I'm feeling way too overconfident right now lol
Also I've never even played with you get out
Groslouzer brings up a point you click steamboots just as often as phaseboots in hon because phase has a much longer cd and I like being cool switching to int every time I use a spell switching to ago to bottle/power supply and switching to str for teamfights getting ganged etc cuz that's what all the cool people do anyways guess u ain't one of them
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On May 23 2011 16:35 GhostKorean wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 16:26 don_kyuhote wrote:On May 23 2011 16:17 GhostKorean wrote:
2. Treads are definitely one of the best items in the game and you can never really go wrong with treads on almost any hero
In my opinion, treads are for people who are too lazy to click their item. I prefer phase or boot of travel or mana boot so I can up my apm. Btw, I like how sunye is all of a sudden talking like he knows the game really well. No offense. kekeke Hey this is a hon discussion get out there will be none of this clicking business I haven't played a decent game of hon in forever because I've been snuffing with some of the lower mmr people in the clan and I think I'm feeling way too overconfident right now lol Also I've never even played with you get out
are you kidding me?
I'm 100% certain that I know hon better than you lol.
I'm a personal friend of Travitus (the best hon player in US, possibly entire NA) and I watch testie's hon stream religiously.
now u get out
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I got an immortal on testies stream once all ur arguments have just been invalidated
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On May 23 2011 16:43 GhostKorean wrote:
I got an immortal on testies stream once all ur arguments have just been invalidated
gj sunye. gj
imma go play dota with that UC merced kid and Cal Tech professor.
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I think chalice is a good item on a hero like Morraxxus or Pebs, when you need the extra mana a lot of the time more so than the huge hp pool you have, or what about a hero like empath you chalice and lifedrain an opponent, or even pharoah when you chalice you get the worth of 3~ 200 damage nukes for the cost of 50 life. I think Chalice is okay on most strength heroes and emapth,
Also I would love to get better I play this game way to much to be stuck at the 1600 bracket (I dropped 100 MMR this week =[) I call MIAs (I get tilted a little easily) I buy out the wards in the shop constantly if I'm the only support I'll up the courier and get wards up before my boots if I have to.
I'd love to get better I play support/gankers/iniators (See andromeda and glacius) but mostly support; you know getting your carry farm saccing yourself to get kills on the enemies carries. Setting up good wards that set up and prevent awesome ganks and being the one that sets up the sentry wards when someone gets an invis rune to countergank someone (That shit is funny). Triple stacking the forest and ancients and harrassing in lane are probably my 2 favorite things to do when I'm playing support (other than setting up a disgusting teamfight or saving a carry with an andro swap =]).
But lately I'm getting extremely bored of playing support because good support doesnt seem to make up for morons who can't last hit and overplay getting themselves or me killed. So I've been playing Silo/hag mid which I'm fairly decent at.
If anyone actually read my post and has any ideas on how to help me get better/out of the 16-1700 bracket (Or willing to game with me for extended hours a day I ususally plat hon like 20+hours a week when I want to sadly) let me know I feel as though I can be a much better player instead of the crap/mediocre one I am now >.<.
This is Dissent ingame 8% glacius 8% myrm 4% behe and andro lol.
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On May 23 2011 16:46 Dacendoran wrote:
If anyone actually read my post and has any ideas on how to help me get better/out of the 16-1700 bracket let me know I feel as though I can be a much better player instead of the crap/mediocre one I am now >.<.
Watch Testie and especially Travitus play.
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Regarding items, you need to think much more carefully. It's all about what your strategy is in the matchup.
Battery is typically a poor early investment, it's only for countering really spammy heroes. With/against heroes that have spells that consume their mana pool, it's definitely a waste of money. You can bring 4 more clarities = 4 more time to try for combo kills with that money. Try to get 4 stuns out of a battery. On the other hand, most heroes can benefit from it if there is a lot of mid game action - it's really a cheap survivability item. Gives you a free 200 hp every 2-3 major fights.
Steam/phase is also all about what you are up against. Steam is typically preferable when the stats are extra important. This is the case in a lot of caster vs caster 1v1s. It's important for a lot of casters that have blink combos that benefit from the deeper mana pool.
Sometimes depending on lineup hero that normally gets steam will be used more offensively, and get phase instead (puppet). It's important on heroes that heavily rely on good positioning (like flint valk). If the lineups are such that you can get away without having phase, or that you absolutely need the flexibility from steam, then you grab steam. Phase is also sometimes used like a poor man's blink. You're even/behind enough that you can't get blink in time, so you'll just have to try for plays with phase.
Chalice is generally garbage and I see even bad 1800s get chalice components early. The fact is that most heroes and roles don't have the regeneration to make chalice work. Chalice is great on heroes that have either a healer in the lane (vj) or regen like vanguard. But if you grab it on a support you will never have the regen to properly make use of it without feeding. A bottle would probably be preferable, or just a handful of clarities.
Chalice can also be used with bottle on mid heroes. It helps you get more out of your bottle charges since you can chalice and then drink.
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On May 23 2011 16:46 Dacendoran wrote:
This is Dissent ingame 8% glacius 8% myrm 4% behe and andro lol.
Wow you play glacius and andromeda alot!
HOW TRAVITUS-ESQUE!!!!!
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Tbh I think I'm just extremely biased against chalice because it's cd is too long it only gives 100 mana and I never use the get your hp back after a kill thing which I really should. It has a really really good buildup but I feel like I have enough mana with bottle power supply. Also you shouldn't build it on supports like andro because you need all the hp you have and you should have enough mana for a stun and swap 90% of the time and you shouldn't get it on like empathy because 100 mana doesn't do shit lol
As to how you get better, I have no idea because it's never happened to me oooooooo
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EPT
