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On March 11 2011 05:17 Az0r_au wrote:
I'm not bad (im not good either) just frustrated and jaded. I've played >25 games and im at 1750mmr. Orb walking doesnt seem to add any benefit in HON is what I should have said (I may be doing it wrong but if its the same as dota then im doing it right), you attack just as fast by right clicking than by manualy doing it. I cant speak to anything above 1800mmr but so far it seems PB are picked ALOT more than in Dota. I remember looking at the item use stats on getdota.com and PB was like >5%.
A lot of casual players build ghost marchers (phase boots) in pub games because they're versatile: ghost marchers provide good movement speed, a burst of movement speed, and allow unit walking. For noobs, that is everything you want on every hero.
The movement speed and burst of movement speed helps compensate for bad players who are out of position. (Too far back when your team initiates, you are getting ganked, you're chasing down a hero, etc.) Basically ghost marchers can be a crutch.
Unit walking is also helpful for a similar reason. Shitty hero movement and/or need help juking? Phase boots activate! Having trouble chasing down enemy heroes as the carry for your team? Ethereal man away!
While you may think I'm implying phase boots are bad, I'm not. For the same reasons previously mentioned, ghost marchers can be very useful on certain heroes. Good movement speed for ganking, chasing, and juking is obviously valuable for good players and not simply as a crutch. For example, ghost marchers are fantastic on chipper because of his skills and role (Ganker who has better use for ghost marchers than striders. Doesn't need the survivability/etc. of steamboots. Post haste probably not worth the cost). An example of a hero who is usually played without the need for ghost marchers is pebbles.
P.S. Don't make conclusions about a game by what people build in pubs. (and 25 games? what?) Hell, even in a competitive game, one Soulstealer built a codex. There are a lot of factors that decide a game of HoN and non-optimal items are rarely the culprit.
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For those of you trying out LoL, expect chat server problems. It's embarrassingly unreliable.
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On March 11 2011 06:03 Wala.Revolution wrote:
For those of you trying out LoL, expect chat server problems. It's embarrassingly unreliable.
As long as I get loss forgivens for this bout of shitty servers acting up.
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Phase boots in DotA are used more often in the more recent versions due to the Tread stat nerf from 10 -> 8.
They are also side lane solo vs side lane solo, if you can get them quick enough as it provides a decent sized advantage last hitting / denying the enemy solo farm.
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On March 11 2011 06:27 alia wrote:
Phase boots in DotA are used more often in the more recent versions due to the Tread stat nerf from 10 -> 8.
They are also side lane solo vs side lane solo, if you can get them quick enough as it provides a decent sized advantage last hitting / denying the enemy solo farm.
Then, with the level advantage from the solo lane, you can start running around and tearing up the rest of their team too.
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On March 11 2011 05:17 Az0r_au wrote:
I'm not bad (im not good either) just frustrated and jaded. I've played >25 games and im at 1750mmr. Orb walking doesnt seem to add any benefit in HON is what I should have said (I may be doing it wrong but if its the same as dota then im doing it right), you attack just as fast by right clicking than by manualy doing it. I cant speak to anything above 1800mmr but so far it seems PB are picked ALOT more than in Dota. I remember looking at the item use stats on getdota.com and PB was like >5%.
Orb walking prevents enemy creeps from coming over and hitting you, which is very useful for harassing.
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On March 11 2011 06:27 alia wrote:
Phase boots in DotA are used more often in the more recent versions due to the Tread stat nerf from 10 -> 8.
They are also side lane solo vs side lane solo, if you can get them quick enough as it provides a decent sized advantage last hitting / denying the enemy solo farm.
Their use is still less than 15% (with treads at almost 75%). Either hon players know something that the best dota players dont or something is different enough between the games to make PB better in hon.
*Ninja edit* Ahh yeah didn't take that into consideration Risen
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Sigh...
First of all, orb walking does NOT make you attack any faster than you actually can. Meaning that for a hero like Silencer with a base 1.7 attack speed, meaning that you can not and will not start up any attacks for 1.7 seconds after your first one, orb walking or not. This is a very common misconception that I thought the DotA community has grown out of, but apparently not.
Secondly, where are you getting the the statistics on phase boots use? Please don't say some shitty pub hostbot's tracker.
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On March 11 2011 03:46 Az0r_au wrote:
Well yeah for competitive play LoL is just junk but theres alot of little things in hon too.
No orb walking - like take viper vs arachna, to maximise vipers poison shot you hit the hot key click the hero then move towards them to help chase then repeat. To maximise arachna you right click the hero and right click web shot.
Phase boots - I don't know what it is but they are fucking retarded in hon. You look at pro dota replays PB are used like 10-20% In hon its like 80-90%. Everyone moves at rediculous speeds.
Team fights are a cluster fuck and a half. The game is about decision making, timing and reactions. The game feels faster so there is less decision making and therefor less chance for better players to take advantage of their edge.
Hero ports are inconsistant. Heroes have mostly the same skills they did in Dota but some gained secondary functions on their skills. Take Leshrac(Torturer), exactly the same except the 3rd skill also pulls heroes together ala Dark Seer. Sniper(flint BW) shrapnel/flare Or take Void(chronos) does his first skill really need to deal 200~ damage? It doesn't in dota...
I don't know I'm probably bitter that Hon isnt Dota2
I think you just need to get used to the game. I'm probably incredibly behind the ball on this one but that's what happens when you check the forums once a week, but they're probably lol-ing at you because everything happening faster wouldn't handicap the faster thinking, faster reacting "good" player. That's like saying that if you slowed SC down to normal speed it would benefit 500 apm players MORE than 100 apm players.
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According to this page the difference in usage of ghost marchers and steamboots isn't remotely as big as you're making it out to be.
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On March 11 2011 05:06 bhp255 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 06:35 GazeRocker wrote:
My ID is GazeRage or GazeRocker, how do u add people in lol? dude, where have u been, dev and i have been playin LoL for a while now, ur never on vent, hon or LoL tho btw, u add friends on the bottom right corner of the screen, where theres like 3 msn dudes i sent u a request tho, so you should try clicking the exclamation mark on the bottom right and accept also, just wanted to point this out, i thought LoL matchmaking and stuff was good and all but today i realized that its actually not that great. yes, they may have more ppl cuz its free, BUT today i tried logging in and it said servers were full >_>;; free game => lots of people => full servers => cant play T_T and today, LoL chat crashed so dev and i werent able to invite each other to play 
I had a LOT of school work to do this week T_T...Haven't seen the daylight in ages G_G
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On March 11 2011 07:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
I think you just need to get used to the game. I'm probably incredibly behind the ball on this one but that's what happens when you check the forums once a week, but they're probably lol-ing at you because everything happening faster wouldn't handicap the faster thinking, faster reacting "good" player. That's like saying that if you slowed SC down to normal speed it would benefit 500 apm players MORE than 100 apm players.
It can get to a point where the game is so fast and you die so quickly that your edge is lost. This happend in WoW to an extent. Going from lvl 70 > 80 damage increased by 3-400% but hp only went up 200% A few select classes could kill someone from 100% in a single stun. Faster game lower skill level. I'm not saying Hon is at that point but it feels faster than dota for some reason.
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Good work kid, keep up the school work, jpop 100% behind you. It's probably a good idea that a lot of you take a break from hon/dota/lol anyway, seems like rage was building up in the past 2 months.
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On March 11 2011 08:23 Az0r_au wrote:
I'm not saying Hon is at that point but it feels faster than dota for some reason.
HoN is faster than DotA. In terms of game speed and mechanics both games are different.
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From someone who played all three extensively, HoN requires the most knowledge and skill, by far. A noob sticks out like a sore thumb, immediately, and it's not even close. In LoL they could fool me for the first 3-5 minutes of the game.
If you think LoL has a higher skill ceiling, then you haven't played HoN enough. You see people beat you at HoN and you assume they're doing something cheesy or easy, if this is the case, please, I dare you, do exactly what they do and see if you get the same results.
Hint: you won't.
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Hey, just wanted to give a friendly reminder to everyone out there lurking/posting on hon/dota thread.
If you want to engage in serious discussion you can't just ask people for facts and statistics while you aren't backing up your own. If you want to claim expertise then give concise examples backing up your arguments along with references and reasoning.
On the other hand it seems pretty clear that some people are trolling or just want to argue for the sake of conflict. If you are engaged in one of these arguments please remember that its for the fun of it and proving your point to the opposing party is futile.
TL;DR know who you're arguing with, take it easy.
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On March 11 2011 08:23 Az0r_au wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 07:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
I think you just need to get used to the game. I'm probably incredibly behind the ball on this one but that's what happens when you check the forums once a week, but they're probably lol-ing at you because everything happening faster wouldn't handicap the faster thinking, faster reacting "good" player. That's like saying that if you slowed SC down to normal speed it would benefit 500 apm players MORE than 100 apm players. It can get to a point where the game is so fast and you die so quickly that your edge is lost. This happend in WoW to an extent. Going from lvl 70 > 80 damage increased by 3-400% but hp only went up 200% A few select classes could kill someone from 100% in a single stun. Faster game lower skill level. I'm not saying Hon is at that point but it feels faster than dota for some reason.
for some reason
hon has a different engine than dota
i dont know why
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On March 11 2011 09:17 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 08:23 Az0r_au wrote:On March 11 2011 07:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
I think you just need to get used to the game. I'm probably incredibly behind the ball on this one but that's what happens when you check the forums once a week, but they're probably lol-ing at you because everything happening faster wouldn't handicap the faster thinking, faster reacting "good" player. That's like saying that if you slowed SC down to normal speed it would benefit 500 apm players MORE than 100 apm players. It can get to a point where the game is so fast and you die so quickly that your edge is lost. This happend in WoW to an extent. Going from lvl 70 > 80 damage increased by 3-400% but hp only went up 200% A few select classes could kill someone from 100% in a single stun. Faster game lower skill level. I'm not saying Hon is at that point but it feels faster than dota for some reason. for some reason hon has a different engine than dota i dont know why
oh god are you trying to say hon is a different game from dota?
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On March 11 2011 08:23 Az0r_au wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 07:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
I think you just need to get used to the game. I'm probably incredibly behind the ball on this one but that's what happens when you check the forums once a week, but they're probably lol-ing at you because everything happening faster wouldn't handicap the faster thinking, faster reacting "good" player. That's like saying that if you slowed SC down to normal speed it would benefit 500 apm players MORE than 100 apm players. It can get to a point where the game is so fast and you die so quickly that your edge is lost. This happend in WoW to an extent. Going from lvl 70 > 80 damage increased by 3-400% but hp only went up 200% A few select classes could kill someone from 100% in a single stun. Faster game lower skill level. I'm not saying Hon is at that point but it feels faster than dota for some reason.
More like you are drawing some shitty analogies in an attempt to justify your points. HoN is faster, but not that much faster. You can easily play that speed in DotA if your team was comfortable doing so.
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EPT
