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On January 24 2011 05:45 Blyadischa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 04:07 Judicator wrote:On January 24 2011 01:26 Blyadischa wrote:On January 23 2011 16:26 ganjazerg wrote: Honestly, while I am thankful for support players, players who mainly play support are not as good of players as most people in their rating region and usually only play support as an excuse to get carried.
reading that post just made me spit my redbull all over my notebook, slam both fists on the table, stand up, rip my shirt apart and throw the entire fucking table out of the window. i hope someday you reach the skill level necessary to realise how wrong you are. the reason i play mostly support, is because whenever i don't THERE IS NO FUCKING SUPPORT. warding is unconsistent and BADLY DONE, flying courier is bought at the 25 min mark, and the support attempts to farm and solo gank. thats the fucking problem. if my lowbob mates could play halfway decent support, i would carry them up to 1800 mmr easily, but the thing is they suck. so i carry them by playing proper support. because YES... playing a hardcarry is actually VERY SIMPLE. No support players? Sounds like you're playing in 1500 pubs. Rarely have I played without a courier or wards. And not playing support doesn't mean playing only hard carry. I mean play anything other than support, ganking, initiating, semi carrying. Playing support is not difficult at all. The assist gold change, chalice, and striders have removed any sort of skill in play support. Playing support now just means ez ganking people and not feeding, which isn't hard at all. I do admit that there is a handful of support players that are good overall, but I'm talking about the majority that DONT know how to farm. You clearly have never played support in farm heavy versions of DotA. EZ ganking isn't EZ ganking, overganking means you get fucked. Talking about HoN, where support players have striders, chalice, and a modified assist gold system that gives more assist gold among other things. What Judicator says is true, but what this says is even truer. DotA doesn't have Striders (thank god) or Chalice.
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i thought chalice was soulring.
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On January 24 2011 09:19 stanley_ wrote: i thought chalice was soulring. It's a very buffed soulring. Basically it gives most heroes infinite mana
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On January 24 2011 10:26 GhostKorean wrote:It's a very buffed soulring. Basically it gives most heroes infinite mana
And I still get power supply most of the time
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On January 24 2011 09:19 stanley_ wrote: i thought chalice was soulring.
Soul ring gives you 150 mana that is usable for 10 seconds (if I remember correctly), while some life regen like a life tube (chalice gives a decent amount already) and a chalice that is constantly used means full mana and almost full hp
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On January 24 2011 10:26 GhostKorean wrote:It's a very buffed soulring. Basically it gives most heroes infinite mana
Infinite?! That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
Chalice just keeps the early game a little more active. You take a calculated risk by building it, and if it doesn't pay off in the form of an early kill you're behind. If your opponent goes chalice and you can hold out for bottle it's LOL.
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The chalice is being changed anyway. You'll see a new version next patch most likely.
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On January 24 2011 11:18 Rybka wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 10:26 GhostKorean wrote:On January 24 2011 09:19 stanley_ wrote: i thought chalice was soulring. It's a very buffed soulring. Basically it gives most heroes infinite mana Infinite?! That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Chalice just keeps the early game a little more active. You take a calculated risk by building it, and if it doesn't pay off in the form of an early kill you're behind. If your opponent goes chalice and you can hold out for bottle it's LOL. Hmmm I never thought of it like that. It retains its usefulness for a very long time for many heroes though
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OMG!!! Huge news! Gosugamers has started both SC2 team and now a DotA team with my fav players(cept Vigoss!)- KuroKy, PuppeY and Mira!! This will be awesome! Go over to Gosugamers.net to check the whole news out! GG GL HF guys...
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They didn't make a hon team right after their huge hon tournament? ~_~ is comp dota in the USA still popular at all?
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Lololol...HoN team before DotA?? Their site has the most hits from DotA fans and SC2 next! Plus DotA scene is much more matured and skill-level is higher. Yup, its true!
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Just recently started playing HoN (im a total newb at ~1600 PSR with < 1.0 KD) and it came to my mind that the SC2 community is pretty awesome. Compared to the HoN palyers, its not even awesome but godlike...
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On January 24 2011 16:52 GhostKorean wrote: They didn't make a hon team right after their huge hon tournament? ~_~ is comp dota in the USA still popular at all? not really, but gg.net traffic is primarily dota, they are like the dota site for non-chinese, and even though their name was on the tournament steel series paid the prize monies
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On January 24 2011 17:29 FetTerBender wrote: Just recently started playing HoN (im a total newb at ~1600 PSR with < 1.0 KD) and it came to my mind that the SC2 community is pretty awesome. Compared to the HoN palyers, its not even awesome but godlike...
This has been repeated over and over again. The game where you need to win as a team and even if one player there underperforms it can mean a huge difference for everyone is bound to have flamewars and what not.
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If the flaming gets to you, use /ignorechat. Ctrl+F8 -> ChatDisconnect works, too. Nothing to do about the five billion retarded players out there, though.
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i actually think spellshards, blood chalice and maybe striders (not sure about this, i have yet to build them) are really cool items in terms of design. only problem is they are too effective for their price. increase recipe cost of spellshards to 1250 and make each blood chalice proc take off 50-100 more hp and they will be fine imho.
also this:
On January 22 2011 17:40 bhp255 wrote: ALVIE! whur r u D: havent seen u on hon like...ever devaz, riki, etc and i usually play some, u shud tmm w/ us!
a witch slayer with some balls on our team? fuck yes.
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On January 24 2011 08:08 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 05:45 Blyadischa wrote:On January 24 2011 04:07 Judicator wrote:On January 24 2011 01:26 Blyadischa wrote:On January 23 2011 16:26 ganjazerg wrote: Honestly, while I am thankful for support players, players who mainly play support are not as good of players as most people in their rating region and usually only play support as an excuse to get carried.
reading that post just made me spit my redbull all over my notebook, slam both fists on the table, stand up, rip my shirt apart and throw the entire fucking table out of the window. i hope someday you reach the skill level necessary to realise how wrong you are. the reason i play mostly support, is because whenever i don't THERE IS NO FUCKING SUPPORT. warding is unconsistent and BADLY DONE, flying courier is bought at the 25 min mark, and the support attempts to farm and solo gank. thats the fucking problem. if my lowbob mates could play halfway decent support, i would carry them up to 1800 mmr easily, but the thing is they suck. so i carry them by playing proper support. because YES... playing a hardcarry is actually VERY SIMPLE. No support players? Sounds like you're playing in 1500 pubs. Rarely have I played without a courier or wards. And not playing support doesn't mean playing only hard carry. I mean play anything other than support, ganking, initiating, semi carrying. Playing support is not difficult at all. The assist gold change, chalice, and striders have removed any sort of skill in play support. Playing support now just means ez ganking people and not feeding, which isn't hard at all. I do admit that there is a handful of support players that are good overall, but I'm talking about the majority that DONT know how to farm. You clearly have never played support in farm heavy versions of DotA. EZ ganking isn't EZ ganking, overganking means you get fucked. Talking about HoN, where support players have striders, chalice, and a modified assist gold system that gives more assist gold among other things. What Judicator says is true, but what this says is even truer. DotA doesn't have Striders (thank god) or Chalice.
Missing my point, playing support in modern DotA is totally irrelevant to what items you have at your disposal. Support has become infinitely more difficult in execution than in theory with the introduction of Bottle, Wand, etc. The same concept applies to HoN, where the decision making process has become far more complicated since the conception of the support role, that makes playing support more difficult, not easier. The problem lies not within how much gold, items or deaths you have as a support but the effectiveness of those deaths or gold.
I have said this a million times, and I'll say it again, the true difficulty in HoN/Dota isn't mechanics or skill, but rather decision making and that aspect certainly does not get easier with more available items and more heroes.
Case in point was the introduction of the Bottle in DotA, Supports now had the option to pick up bottle at 600 gold, but at 500 gold is boots, 200 gold is crow, 200 gold is also wards, 200 gold is also counter wards. So what do you do as a support player? Or rather you had to decide what was needed to be done. It certainly wasn't as easy as saying, they're ganking so I'll get wards nor was it I'm ganking so I'll buy Bottle, so it complicates the decision making process more.
Asian teams recognized this more than Euros and NAs, hence the difficulties the latter had with the former at LANs. The carry play was pretty much the flash that everyone looked at instead of the fundamentally sound play.
Edit: The sound play being the highly specialized nature of Asian strategies during the laning phase. It's a hybridization of the early Scourge side 6.27 strategies and the 48b Blink Dagger era strategy.
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On January 21 2011 15:06 [TYG]Transcend wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 13:33 OmgIRok wrote:On January 21 2011 13:26 [TYG]Transcend wrote: I think this thread needs to be moar lively. Rabid keeps going on Clan Chat asking for buttsex but just afks.
On a happier note, no one plays doter anymore? how is it happier if you think that no1 plays dota anymore? you fucking faggot me n rabid n nitro still play User was warned for this post Brohem, you got warned. And trust me, anything is happier than what Rabid asks for every time he goes on clan chat. On the happiest note, I am going to buy DotA2 for 4 lucky individuals, stay tuned. Wait, things just got better, 5 people cause we'll need a ringer/sub. The bad part of this is you have to get vouched into DPIH. ): and not be a flaming faggot, that's the hard part. P.S. umad? Tygs, you don't even know what dota is. Go back to losing at warlocks.
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On January 25 2011 05:10 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 08:08 rabidch wrote:On January 24 2011 05:45 Blyadischa wrote:On January 24 2011 04:07 Judicator wrote:On January 24 2011 01:26 Blyadischa wrote:On January 23 2011 16:26 ganjazerg wrote: Honestly, while I am thankful for support players, players who mainly play support are not as good of players as most people in their rating region and usually only play support as an excuse to get carried.
reading that post just made me spit my redbull all over my notebook, slam both fists on the table, stand up, rip my shirt apart and throw the entire fucking table out of the window. i hope someday you reach the skill level necessary to realise how wrong you are. the reason i play mostly support, is because whenever i don't THERE IS NO FUCKING SUPPORT. warding is unconsistent and BADLY DONE, flying courier is bought at the 25 min mark, and the support attempts to farm and solo gank. thats the fucking problem. if my lowbob mates could play halfway decent support, i would carry them up to 1800 mmr easily, but the thing is they suck. so i carry them by playing proper support. because YES... playing a hardcarry is actually VERY SIMPLE. No support players? Sounds like you're playing in 1500 pubs. Rarely have I played without a courier or wards. And not playing support doesn't mean playing only hard carry. I mean play anything other than support, ganking, initiating, semi carrying. Playing support is not difficult at all. The assist gold change, chalice, and striders have removed any sort of skill in play support. Playing support now just means ez ganking people and not feeding, which isn't hard at all. I do admit that there is a handful of support players that are good overall, but I'm talking about the majority that DONT know how to farm. You clearly have never played support in farm heavy versions of DotA. EZ ganking isn't EZ ganking, overganking means you get fucked. Talking about HoN, where support players have striders, chalice, and a modified assist gold system that gives more assist gold among other things. What Judicator says is true, but what this says is even truer. DotA doesn't have Striders (thank god) or Chalice. Missing my point, playing support in modern DotA is totally irrelevant to what items you have at your disposal. Support has become infinitely more difficult in execution than in theory with the introduction of Bottle, Wand, etc. The same concept applies to HoN, where the decision making process has become far more complicated since the conception of the support role, that makes playing support more difficult, not easier. The problem lies not within how much gold, items or deaths you have as a support but the effectiveness of those deaths or gold. I have said this a million times, and I'll say it again, the true difficulty in HoN/Dota isn't mechanics or skill, but rather decision making and that aspect certainly does not get easier with more available items and more heroes. Case in point was the introduction of the Bottle in DotA, Supports now had the option to pick up bottle at 600 gold, but at 500 gold is boots, 200 gold is crow, 200 gold is also wards, 200 gold is also counter wards. So what do you do as a support player? Or rather you had to decide what was needed to be done. It certainly wasn't as easy as saying, they're ganking so I'll get wards nor was it I'm ganking so I'll buy Bottle, so it complicates the decision making process more. Asian teams recognized this more than Euros and NAs, hence the difficulties the latter had with the former at LANs. The carry play was pretty much the flash that everyone looked at instead of the fundamentally sound play. Edit: The sound play being the highly specialized nature of Asian strategies during the laning phase. It's a hybridization of the early Scourge side 6.27 strategies and the 48b Blink Dagger era strategy.
You're missing my point, the effectiveness of each life and gold you spend as a support is too effective in HoN.
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