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On January 23 2011 16:26 ganjazerg wrote:Show nested quote +
Honestly, while I am thankful for support players, players who mainly play support are not as good of players as most people in their rating region and usually only play support as an excuse to get carried.
reading that post just made me spit my redbull all over my notebook, slam both fists on the table, stand up, rip my shirt apart and throw the entire fucking table out of the window. i hope someday you reach the skill level necessary to realise how wrong you are. the reason i play mostly support, is because whenever i don't THERE IS NO FUCKING SUPPORT. warding is unconsistent and BADLY DONE, flying courier is bought at the 25 min mark, and the support attempts to farm and solo gank. thats the fucking problem. if my lowbob mates could play halfway decent support, i would carry them up to 1800 mmr easily, but the thing is they suck. so i carry them by playing proper support. because YES... playing a hardcarry is actually VERY SIMPLE.
actually that is a common misconception. playing carry isn't actually very simple at all. actually there are no simple roles period. they are all extremely crucial if you want to succeed at a higher level.
at low level pubs, carries usually have a more decisive impact on the game, but only because farming is one of the first skills you must pick up to become even halfway decent, and since there aren't any effective gankers ( players) then it is much much easier to "freefarm" at this level. so 40 minutes in they come out with more items than the other team gg.
an efficient ganker is actually much more effective at low-mid pub level than any other role, due to the ample opportunities presented by extremely low map awareness, and general bad support play.
even at the highest level pubs one great ganker can force a concede, or shut down the map for a good 20 minutes.
only at the highest level games ( high level scrims) do these actually drop off in effectiveness, and it's due simply to good map awareness by every single player, and good support ( wards at correct locations @6 12 18, counterwarding)
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actually that is a common misconception. playing carry isn't actually very simple at all. actually there are no simple roles period. they are all extremely crucial if you want to succeed at a higher level.
at low level pubs, carries usually have a more decisive impact on the game, but only because farming is one of the first skills you must pick up to become even halfway decent, and since there aren't any effective gankers ( players) then it is much much easier to "freefarm" at this level. so 40 minutes in they come out with more items than the other team gg.
an efficient ganker is actually much more effective at low-mid pub level than any other role, due to the ample opportunities presented by extremely low map awareness, and general bad support play.
even at the highest level pubs one great ganker can force a concede, or shut down the map for a good 20 minutes.
only at the highest level games ( high level scrims) do these actually drop off in effectiveness, and it's due simply to good map awareness by every single player, and good support ( wards at correct locations @6 12 18, counterwarding)
i agree with almost everything you said. however, my statement still stands. i honestly don't see how you could disagree...
playing a hardcarry in a 1700-1800 mmr level pub takes significantly less skill (decision making, map awareness, item choice) than any other role. if the support of team A's carry is better skill wise than the support of team B's carry, team A's carry
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On January 23 2011 16:52 Wala.Revolution wrote:
wtf you came?
ya?
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On January 23 2011 17:40 rabidch wrote:ya?
Didn't you guys say no ride/not enough people?
How was it?
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On January 23 2011 17:43 Wala.Revolution wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 17:40 rabidch wrote:On January 23 2011 16:52 Wala.Revolution wrote:
wtf you came? ya? Didn't you guys say no ride/not enough people? How was it?
i came to ring for somebody but they ended up having enough people since i didnt respond to their pm fast enough so i rung for some ppl from ucsd
i already said how was it
at least i got to watch mew2king 4 stock (1 was jv 4 stock) 2 guys in less than 4 minuets of in game time in the smash tournament hahah
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
Serious discussion in this thread ;o
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On January 23 2011 17:21 ganjazerg wrote:Show nested quote +actually that is a common misconception. playing carry isn't actually very simple at all. actually there are no simple roles period. they are all extremely crucial if you want to succeed at a higher level.
at low level pubs, carries usually have a more decisive impact on the game, but only because farming is one of the first skills you must pick up to become even halfway decent, and since there aren't any effective gankers ( players) then it is much much easier to "freefarm" at this level. so 40 minutes in they come out with more items than the other team gg.
an efficient ganker is actually much more effective at low-mid pub level than any other role, due to the ample opportunities presented by extremely low map awareness, and general bad support play.
even at the highest level pubs one great ganker can force a concede, or shut down the map for a good 20 minutes.
only at the highest level games ( high level scrims) do these actually drop off in effectiveness, and it's due simply to good map awareness by every single player, and good support ( wards at correct locations @6 12 18, counterwarding) i agree with almost everything you said. however, my statement still stands. i honestly don't see how you could disagree... playing a hardcarry in a 1700-1800 mmr level pub takes significantly less skill (decision making, map awareness, item choice) than any other role. if the support of team A's carry is better skill wise than the support of team B's carry, team A's carry
don't agree on the Hardcarry part. In the End game, one time you die could result in your team losing the game. If you have 10-15 deaths as supporter its okay. but every death especially end game is absolutly deadly( y deaths are deadly -.-). I think playing mid is the easiest role as you don't have a teammate to possibly fail and you end up with a higher level after the laning phase then 8/10 players.
Sometimes I put my whole team on ignore so I don't have to rely on "SS" calls. And rather watch the map myself. And I don't get into flame wars, which usually happens to me^ (fucking 4x the concede votes then games lost xD)
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there is no easiest role in hon - as soon as you reach a certain level of skill, everything is equally tasking or not quantifyably more difficult. the only exception are heroes that require you to micro more than one unit, but we all know how many that are.
there is really no point in discussing this, because there is no discussion - there are only fixed opinions, and probably not even the opinions of people who experience games where people actually know how to play the game.
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On January 23 2011 21:32 Glull wrote:
there is no easiest role in hon - as soon as you reach a certain level of skill, everything is equally tasking or not quantifyably more difficult. the only exception are heroes that require you to micro more than one unit, but we all know how many that are.
there is really no point in discussing this, because there is no discussion - there are only fixed opinions, and probably not even the opinions of people who experience games where people actually know how to play the game.
Late game as a support such as myrm or glacius even if the enemy carry is double your level you can change the game with a good stun, after their shrunken head has run out if you stay in proper position, just ONE stun can change the game, I almost always buy courier first, then wards with my next 700~ gold then boots then counterwards for like 400 more gold then striders then the rest of my gold is spent on buying couriers to block their creepspawns +more wards and counter wards, most games I dont even get past striders on glacius and My carry is 2x my level with insane amounts of farm from my early lane control/ganks and triple stacks the whole game.
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you just quoted my post and told a story - no message, though.
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On January 23 2011 17:21 ganjazerg wrote:Show nested quote +actually that is a common misconception. playing carry isn't actually very simple at all. actually there are no simple roles period. they are all extremely crucial if you want to succeed at a higher level.
at low level pubs, carries usually have a more decisive impact on the game, but only because farming is one of the first skills you must pick up to become even halfway decent, and since there aren't any effective gankers ( players) then it is much much easier to "freefarm" at this level. so 40 minutes in they come out with more items than the other team gg.
an efficient ganker is actually much more effective at low-mid pub level than any other role, due to the ample opportunities presented by extremely low map awareness, and general bad support play.
even at the highest level pubs one great ganker can force a concede, or shut down the map for a good 20 minutes.
only at the highest level games ( high level scrims) do these actually drop off in effectiveness, and it's due simply to good map awareness by every single player, and good support ( wards at correct locations @6 12 18, counterwarding) i agree with almost everything you said. however, my statement still stands. i honestly don't see how you could disagree... playing a hardcarry in a 1700-1800 mmr level pub takes significantly less skill (decision making, map awareness, item choice) than any other role. if the support of team A's carry is better skill wise than the support of team B's carry, team A's carry
Thinking about things like this is like #scrubby. It's irrelevant.
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On January 23 2011 23:21 Glull wrote:
you just quoted my post and told a story - no message, though.
I had just woke up, think I quoted the wrong post.
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On January 23 2011 16:26 ganjazerg wrote:Show nested quote +
Honestly, while I am thankful for support players, players who mainly play support are not as good of players as most people in their rating region and usually only play support as an excuse to get carried.
reading that post just made me spit my redbull all over my notebook, slam both fists on the table, stand up, rip my shirt apart and throw the entire fucking table out of the window. i hope someday you reach the skill level necessary to realise how wrong you are. the reason i play mostly support, is because whenever i don't THERE IS NO FUCKING SUPPORT. warding is unconsistent and BADLY DONE, flying courier is bought at the 25 min mark, and the support attempts to farm and solo gank. thats the fucking problem. if my lowbob mates could play halfway decent support, i would carry them up to 1800 mmr easily, but the thing is they suck. so i carry them by playing proper support. because YES... playing a hardcarry is actually VERY SIMPLE.
No support players? Sounds like you're playing in 1500 pubs. Rarely have I played without a courier or wards.
And not playing support doesn't mean playing only hard carry. I mean play anything other than support, ganking, initiating, semi carrying. Playing support is not difficult at all. The assist gold change, chalice, and striders have removed any sort of skill in play support. Playing support now just means ez ganking people and not feeding, which isn't hard at all.
I do admit that there is a handful of support players that are good overall, but I'm talking about the majority that DONT know how to farm.
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So confusing ~_~ people in HoN are really bad at gauging their own skill levels so you have complete noobies giving (usually) bad advice which misleads other users and honestly the game is so weird that only really top players know how the game actually works. This is why I avoid the HoN forums because it's utter garbage when people that are 1300 psr are participating in balance discussion threads telling people what's wrong, how to counter what, etc. I've been reading the dota/hon thread because many of the well-known posters in here are actually very good but theres this sudden increase in new users posting their opinions ad I don't really know if they know they are talking about or not.
Last night I playe with some lower mmr ranked people than I usually do and I actually win more mmr per game than playing with 1800+'s and the games are way easier :p
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On January 24 2011 01:52 GhostKorean wrote:
So confusing ~_~ people in HoN are really bad at gauging their own skill levels so you have complete noobies giving (usually) bad advice which misleads other users and honestly the game is so weird that only really top players know how the game actually works. This is why I avoid the HoN forums because it's utter garbage when people that are 1300 psr are participating in balance discussion threads telling people what's wrong, how to counter what, etc. I've been reading the dota/hon thread because many of the well-known posters in here are actually very good but theres this sudden increase in new users posting their opinions ad I don't really know if they know they are talking about or not.
Last night I playe with some lower mmr ranked people than I usually do and I actually win more mmr per game than playing with 1800+'s and the games are way easier :p
umm sunye pretty much summed up the hon forums.
throw some d's
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On January 23 2011 12:22 iSiN wrote:
If anyone was wondering (hon)TL clan officers are now
Grouty(me)
Pokebunny
Devaztayta
Mouse(riki)
Sunye
Why won't you make me an officer too? I've been with the clan since it was formed during beta.
Currently Nightreaver@HoN
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smh@this support discussion
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On January 24 2011 01:26 Blyadischa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 16:26 ganjazerg wrote:
Honestly, while I am thankful for support players, players who mainly play support are not as good of players as most people in their rating region and usually only play support as an excuse to get carried.
reading that post just made me spit my redbull all over my notebook, slam both fists on the table, stand up, rip my shirt apart and throw the entire fucking table out of the window. i hope someday you reach the skill level necessary to realise how wrong you are. the reason i play mostly support, is because whenever i don't THERE IS NO FUCKING SUPPORT. warding is unconsistent and BADLY DONE, flying courier is bought at the 25 min mark, and the support attempts to farm and solo gank. thats the fucking problem. if my lowbob mates could play halfway decent support, i would carry them up to 1800 mmr easily, but the thing is they suck. so i carry them by playing proper support. because YES... playing a hardcarry is actually VERY SIMPLE. No support players? Sounds like you're playing in 1500 pubs. Rarely have I played without a courier or wards. And not playing support doesn't mean playing only hard carry. I mean play anything other than support, ganking, initiating, semi carrying. Playing support is not difficult at all. The assist gold change, chalice, and striders have removed any sort of skill in play support. Playing support now just means ez ganking people and not feeding, which isn't hard at all. I do admit that there is a handful of support players that are good overall, but I'm talking about the majority that DONT know how to farm.
You clearly have never played support in farm heavy versions of DotA. EZ ganking isn't EZ ganking, overganking means you get fucked.
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On January 24 2011 04:07 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 01:26 Blyadischa wrote:On January 23 2011 16:26 ganjazerg wrote:
Honestly, while I am thankful for support players, players who mainly play support are not as good of players as most people in their rating region and usually only play support as an excuse to get carried.
reading that post just made me spit my redbull all over my notebook, slam both fists on the table, stand up, rip my shirt apart and throw the entire fucking table out of the window. i hope someday you reach the skill level necessary to realise how wrong you are. the reason i play mostly support, is because whenever i don't THERE IS NO FUCKING SUPPORT. warding is unconsistent and BADLY DONE, flying courier is bought at the 25 min mark, and the support attempts to farm and solo gank. thats the fucking problem. if my lowbob mates could play halfway decent support, i would carry them up to 1800 mmr easily, but the thing is they suck. so i carry them by playing proper support. because YES... playing a hardcarry is actually VERY SIMPLE. No support players? Sounds like you're playing in 1500 pubs. Rarely have I played without a courier or wards. And not playing support doesn't mean playing only hard carry. I mean play anything other than support, ganking, initiating, semi carrying. Playing support is not difficult at all. The assist gold change, chalice, and striders have removed any sort of skill in play support. Playing support now just means ez ganking people and not feeding, which isn't hard at all. I do admit that there is a handful of support players that are good overall, but I'm talking about the majority that DONT know how to farm. You clearly have never played support in farm heavy versions of DotA. EZ ganking isn't EZ ganking, overganking means you get fucked.
Talking about HoN, where support players have striders, chalice, and a modified assist gold system that gives more assist gold among other things.
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By the way, for anyone who cares, it's SK vs EG right now for the GR Invitational.
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EPT
