How come they are valued higher now than during peak COVID gaming madness? I can understand not wanting to be valued lower than that, even if it happened to other companies, but a 20% premium? Their cash runs out in 3-4 months, they said that they will launch with three incomplete races and not much content and they seem to have only secured a 2 million dollar debt to extend that by 2 months.
I thought about investing when they announced it, I really want them to succeed, but this seems crazy to me?
The increase in valuation is explained in page 15 of their SEC filing (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2013852/000166516024000316/offeringmemoformc.pdf).
Basically, it is about the growth of Stormgate during that time. They cite 861% increase in Steam wishlists and 480% increase in beta sign-ups since their last funding round.
On April 09 2024 06:55 _Spartak_ wrote: The increase in valuation is explained in page 13 of their SEC filing (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2013852/000166516024000316/offeringmemoformc.pdf).
Basically, it is about the growth of Stormgate during that time. They cite 861% increase in Steam wishlists and 480% increase in beta sign-ups since their last funding round.
How much is that in raw numbers? lol
Anyways, this is interesting because it actually sheds some light on their exact financial situation. E.g. as of Feb 2024 they got 6.8 million at hand and their expenses in 2023 totaled 13.5 million, which basically means they got money until the end of July if they keep their expenses at the same level.
Also, apparently they have spent 1.2 million on advertising in 2023. That's a lot for a company that doesn't actively advertise, isn't it?
I didn't read everything but from skimming through it, their seems to be a lot of bogus in there. Like, valuation is based on "their previous IP" Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty at 50 % of the monthly active player base. Sorry, but everything in that statement is just insane.
I guess that "funded until early access this summer" really was a cry that they are running out of money this summer and are shoving the EA out the door before the lights go out.
No way someone is bailing them out with a bag full of millions, nor are they raising enough money off of EA to keep this going.
if anyone is seriously thinking about investing in this message me and I swear I will personally spend hours of my time finding you a better investment
edit: there won't be any BONUS SHARES like this though --- DING DING DING thanks for investing in our real business here's some BONUS SHARES BING BING DING DING those are the sounds of real serious investing!
edit2: Honey yes no I'm investing the videogame company, yes the one where the two-headed men fight marines with polarized sunglasses helmets! yes that one! Honey they give you a discord role! What do you mean you are going to your mother's house??? ITS AN INVESTOR DISCORD ROLE!
The Company's expenses consist of, among other things, salaries, stock-based compensation, and lease liability. Expenses in 2023 totaled $13,515,937, a $2,900,000 increase from 2022.
Most of this increase was due to increased contractors, salaries, and advertising. For example, advertising expenses increased from $535,000 to $1,200,000.
I do believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that we were led to believe that Stormgate had spent their money on developing the game with 0 marketing spend. The initial stated purpose of the StartEngine was to raise funds for self-publishing in the West. However, this is evidently not so (page 16):
lf we raise the over allotment amount of$4,999,992.48, we plan to use these proceeds as follows:
• StartEngine Platform Fees 5.5%
• Company Employment 10.0% We intend for 10% of the funds to be put towards headcount. Specifically, we plan to bring on a brand manager, community manager, performance marketer, influencer manager, and additional development headcount.
• Marketing 39.5% We plan to use 39.5% of the funds from this raise towards ad assets, paid media spend, performance marketing, influencer marketing, esports tournaments, external agent)' support, external PR support, regional support, and a Gamescom booth.
• Operating Capital 45.0% Frost Giant has sufficient cash on hand to cover operations through the expected Q3 2024 launch of Stormgate into Early Access. Additional access to capital is expected from regional distribution deals, venture debt, and pre-sales of Stormgate. We intend to use 45% of these funds towards additional operating capital that provides the Company with breathing room at Early Access launch, with a more reasonable time to spin up live operations and hit operational profitability.
I'm really left scratching my head wondering whether they truly expect this StartEngine play to pay off for the amount it sours customer trust in their product, and their word.
I thought at the least they were going to drop some oafish amount on a big esports circuit, like say 3 mil, and everyone would have to grit their teeth and groan while watching it so the SC2 players they like could get a pay day. But uhhh it all went to TorcH's golden exit parachute I guess.
40 percent of the startengine right now for esports is 40 grand, so not much of a great golden tournament. I would estimate they will do a warchest thing which packages skins with the power of GUILT to support the scene. Maybe you will get another patented eNovella as a reward!
I wish somebody just ran a big fucking kickstarter for StarCraft money to keep everyone where they are. I really expected a chunk of the startup money to make its way to the pros in exchange for everyone's attention but it doesn't look like its happening now.
Maybe the Tims are preparing to camelback to Gamers8 dressed as T.E. Lawrence in order to get the esports money to make it all work.
On April 09 2024 09:43 MegaBuster wrote: if anyone is seriously thinking about investing in this message me and I swear I will personally spend hours of my time finding you a better investment
I would see it as an alternative to a Vegas weekend. But the odds now seem even worse at this valuation.
On April 09 2024 06:55 _Spartak_ wrote: The increase in valuation is explained in page 13 of their SEC filing (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2013852/000166516024000316/offeringmemoformc.pdf). Basically, it is about the growth of Stormgate during that time. They cite 861% increase in Steam wishlists and 480% increase in beta sign-ups since their last funding round.
Those numbers seem meaningless to me. They also don't even make sense? Wasn't their last funding round, according to the filing, in January 2022? Stormgate was announced in June 2022. That's when people could start wishlisting, no? How can there be 861% growth? Which, again, is an utterly meaningless number in the first place. Their wishlists are not bad, but also not good enough to compare yourself to WoL.
On April 09 2024 12:18 VelRa_G wrote: From the SEC filing (pg 13):
The Company's expenses consist of, among other things, salaries, stock-based compensation, and lease liability. Expenses in 2023 totaled $13,515,937, a $2,900,000 increase from 2022. Most of this increase was due to increased contractors, salaries, and advertising. For example, advertising expenses increased from $535,000 to $1,200,000.
I do believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that we were led to believe that Stormgate had spent their money on developing the game with 0 marketing spend.
I saw ads for the Kickstarter campaign and I would guess that the cinematic trailers, PR costs, attendance at game events (Summer Game Fest, PC Gamer Show, Game Awards) and so on also count as marketing expenses?
I have to wonder what has happened to Frost Giant in the last year or so. They feel very corporate now, in a bad way.
The financial controller of Frost Giant has a side hustle. "In addition to working approximately 40 hours a week for Frost Giant, Howard also works about 11 hours a week for his company New Game LLC DBA New Game Advisory."
For all we know he is just pretending to work full time for Frost Giant and he is preparing his parachute out of the place.
Also , they include a quote from BeastyQT heaping effusive praise upon the game. Here is what BeastyQT really thinks about the game...
TL;DR. BeastyQT is quite negative about the game and provides a huge number of in depth reasons why he is negative. So the quote of BeastyQT praising the game is misleading on the part of Frost Giant.
It'll be interesting to see how much of the $275M Bitkraft just raised ends up going to Frost Giant. Bitkraft praises Frost Giant in the article. Let's see if they back their words with some actual... you know.. cash.
It is 500k in wishlists. Beta sign up numbers aren't revealed I think.
Those numbers seem meaningless to me. They also don't even make sense? Wasn't their last funding round, according to the filing, in January 2022? Stormgate was announced in June 2022. That's when people could start wishlisting, no? How can there be 861% growth? Which, again, is an utterly meaningless number in the first place. Their wishlists are not bad, but also not good enough to compare yourself to WoL.
You are right about the dates actually, so I am not sure. They talk about moving from #134 in wishlists to 40. Maybe they are comparing it to when wishlists became available (so shortly after the reveal in 2022) or maybe at the end of that year. Beta sign ups were available before Stormgate reveal though.
TL;DR. BeastyQT is quite negative about the game and provides a huge number of in depth reasons why he is negative. So the quote of BeastyQT praising the game is misleading on the part of Frost Giant.
lol. He is not "quite negative" at all. I suppose you are banking on people not watching an half an hour video and taking your word for it, which is probably a smart move.
On April 09 2024 06:55 _Spartak_ wrote: The increase in valuation is explained in page 13 of their SEC filing (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2013852/000166516024000316/offeringmemoformc.pdf).
Basically, it is about the growth of Stormgate during that time. They cite 861% increase in Steam wishlists and 480% increase in beta sign-ups since their last funding round.
How much is that in raw numbers? lol
Anyways, this is interesting because it actually sheds some light on their exact financial situation. E.g. as of Feb 2024 they got 6.8 million at hand and their expenses in 2023 totaled 13.5 million, which basically means they got money until the end of July if they keep their expenses at the same level.
Also, apparently they have spent 1.2 million on advertising in 2023. That's a lot for a company that doesn't actively advertise, isn't it?
I didn't read everything but from skimming through it, their seems to be a lot of bogus in there. Like, valuation is based on "their previous IP" Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty at 50 % of the monthly active player base. Sorry, but everything in that statement is just insane.
valuations in general are always nonsense for startup type projects. It's complete guesswork based on hypothetical estimates mixed with a few liberal interpretations of data.
13.5 Million per year feels insane to me. 8.6 million went to salary expenses, which also seems way too high. I guess on average employees were paid 200K per year?
Generally you want startup early employees to receive less in salary and compensate with equity + them being passionate about the project and thus taking a slight paycut compared to market rate.
I don't see how anyone could image a game being able to be succesfully developed when you spend 13M+ per year developing a game for a relatively niche market.
"our completely unknown and unproven start-up is making its first game that is going to launch in early access and it will get 50% of the players that SC2 Wings of Liberty got" is a hell of a copium.
WoL was a $60 game, Stormgate is going to be free. WoL had 6 million sales in the 3 years between its release and HotS. What would be its average monthly active users? 1 million? Maybe 2 initially? It is certainly optimistic to say SG will have half of that during early access but not as outrageous as you suggest.
Imho it's very outrageous to expect these numbers for any RTS that isn't a direct successor to Starcraft or Warcraft. Hell, these numbers would be optimistic for a new IP Blizzard RTS even before Blizzard went to shit.
Will early access have skins? I think that will be the biggest way to get funding. People are contributing out of good will and faith in the game atm but some cosmetics or micro transactions would definitely help I think.
On April 09 2024 19:59 Velr wrote: Imho it's very outrageous to expect these numbers for any RTS that isn't a direct successor to Starcraft or Warcraft. Hell, these numbers would be optimistic for a new IP Blizzard RTS even before Blizzard went to shit.
There were apparently 193k unique players during the Steam Next Fest. That's only one week for a very early version of the game.
On April 09 2024 14:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Also , they include a quote from BeastyQT heaping effusive praise upon the game. Here is what BeastyQT really thinks about the game... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C2JwFxqwNA
TL;DR. BeastyQT is quite negative about the game and provides a huge number of in depth reasons why he is negative. So the quote of BeastyQT praising the game is misleading on the part of Frost Giant.
Huh? I watched this video and he isn't all that negative really. He really dislikes the charge and infest mechanics but that's about it.
And this is a guy who was so negative about sc2 he quit entirely.
Things like maps and readability needing improvements aren't dooming problems, they will improve over time like with all games
On April 09 2024 19:59 Velr wrote: Imho it's very outrageous to expect these numbers for any RTS that isn't a direct successor to Starcraft or Warcraft. Hell, these numbers would be optimistic for a new IP Blizzard RTS even before Blizzard went to shit.
There were apparently 193k unique players during the Steam Next Fest. That's only one week for a very early version of the game.
I want to believe but I think a lot of those were just curious and won't be invested long term. When this hits EA release, I think it will absolutely have a lot of people checking in out but a very small part is gonna buy stuff. I also don't see them meet their goal of 5kk invests in their start engine thingy and 13,5 kk / a year is just waaaaay too much to ever be profitable
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/MJxdB10.png)
