EPTStormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 100
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_Spartak_
Turkey443 Posts
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Miragee
8657 Posts
On April 09 2024 21:52 _Spartak_ wrote: It is not easy to pull off but if there ever is going to be a "next great RTS", those numbers have to be reached somehow. If you need the brand recognition of StarCraft to get close to it, then the genre is doomed anyway. Well, I don't think you need to pull of these numbers to become successful, at least not immediately...if it wasn't for their high expenses and thus need for money. They could have spent less for the same product to have more time to grow slowly. I also don't think you necessarily need the brand recognition. Brand recognition is a cheat of course. Talking about Blizzard, I'm very sure Diablo 4 would have sold like shit if it didn't have the Diablo IP. However, there are games that have become quite popular, either out of nowhere or over a long period of time, which didn't have brand recognition before. It's possible, just way harder. And Frost Giant knows this or else they wouldn't have stressed the "we made Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3" over and over. On April 09 2024 16:28 _Spartak_ wrote: It is 500k in wishlists. Beta sign up numbers aren't revealed I think. Thank you, that's not too bad. Although I bet a lot of those people are not going to buy/play the game or at least not on release and just have the game sitting on their wishlist. I wish there were stats for other games to back up this claim. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7142 Posts
On April 09 2024 22:03 Miragee wrote: Thank you, that's not too bad. Although I bet a lot of those people are not going to buy/play the game or at least not on release and just have the game sitting on their wishlist. I wish there were stats for other games to back up this claim. It's F2P so I'm pretty sure most of those will actually try it soon after launch. Games sitting in wishlists after release is typical for people who want to play but don't want to pay full on release and rather go for it in a sale. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey443 Posts
Well, I don't think you need to pull of these numbers to become successful, at least not immediately...if it wasn't for their high expenses and thus need for money. They could have spent less for the same product to have more time to grow slowly. Sure but then you don't get to hire experienced Blizzard staff and if you don't get that pedigree, you don't get the $35m funding from investors or hundreds of thousands of wishlists in the first place. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On April 09 2024 18:18 Gorsameth wrote: "our completely unknown and unproven start-up is making its first game that is going to launch in early access and it will get 50% of the players that SC2 Wings of Liberty got" is a hell of a copium. I couldnt believe my eyes when I read this. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17435 Posts
On April 09 2024 16:28 _Spartak_ wrote: lol. He is not "quite negative" at all. I suppose you are banking on people not watching an half an hour video and taking your word for it, which is probably a smart move. sry dawg. this is complete and total BS yes, he is negative. List the positive things in the video. There are dozens of negative points. The over all tone of the 30 minute video is negative. Art Design- i don't care about art. i don't mind it. Readability of the Units - needs work. needs fixing. big battles are not readable, Co-op: only played 3 or 4 games total and it is not finished. his claim: "the guys who did co op in Starcraft2 are doing co op in Stormgate" sounds positive. However, this point is incorrect. 2 Heroes. Maps: Need a lot of work. Maps are snowbally. Snowballing Mechanics: i really dislike the most is the snowballing mechanics. Balance: I didn't play enough to comment on it. Conclusion: the instant production mechanic will be a problem in a competitive RTS. He goes from "it needs work" and "the foundation can be added upon" to "i really dislike `x`". His conclusion is that he wants them to go with the AOE philosophy of 8 different race and stop being so safe in the unit design. He wants them to focus on fun and not on balance. He wants an AoE type game. I can keep going. However, I think people get the idea. This is not a glowing review of the game. His underlying philosophy of game design is orthogonal to Frost Giant's design philosophy. Let's not judge BeastyQT by his words. Let's examine his actions. How much did he play the game in the last testing phase and how much money did he pledge in the StartEngine? He played 13 hours and he plledged $0 into the StartEngine campaign. He does not like the game. He demonstrated that in both his actions and his words. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey443 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17435 Posts
YOu understand how the business world works I hope. On April 09 2024 23:58 _Spartak_ wrote: Of course, he is going to focus on things that need improving in an unreleased game. He isn't negative overall about the game as it is obvious to everyone who watched that or other videos he made about the game. He hasn't played that much during the last phase because there was a big AoE4 tournament coming up at the time iirc. That quote is real, Frost Giant didn't make it up. It is a disingenuous summary of BeastyQT's opinion of the game. If this bit of positivity is all they got... and they must to put this in their promotion asking for money that is the bad sign. Why can't they get a great quote from a recognizable RTS personality like Grubby, Day9, Artosis, Tasteless, etc etc. Perhaps Quinn Snyder from the COH Universe. Someone big? They can't get a big hitter to put in a good word because they don't want to endorse the game. Artosis refuses to endorse the game. Same with Tasteless , Day9, and Grubby. Their silence is deafening. On April 09 2024 22:43 _Spartak_ wrote: Sure but then you don't get to hire experienced Blizzard staff and if you don't get that pedigree, you don't get the $35m funding from investors or hundreds of thousands of wishlists in the first place. you don't need big money to make a game these days. Steam is filled with great games made by less than 5 people. Game Studio employees are getting laid off in droves because you can make a great game with a small team. There is so much bloat in this industry it is hilarious. It is an embarrassment of riches for the consumer. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26530 Posts
On April 10 2024 00:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote: let's see how much he plays in the next beta phase. My bet is he'll have better things to do. He won't want to stream a game with a very small viewer base. He'll be very nice and diplomatic about it publicly. He does not want to completely trash the game and call the designers total idiots because he lives off of the largesse of other big RTS devs. YOu understand how the business world works I hope. It is a disingenuous summary of BeastyQT's opinion of the game. If this bit of positivity is all they got... and they must to put this in their promotion asking for money that is the bad sign. Why can't they get a great quote from a recognizable RTS personality like Grubby, Day9, Artosis, Tasteless, etc etc. Perhaps Quinn Snyder from the COH Universe. Someone big? They can't get a big hitter to put in a good word because they don't want to endorse the game. Artosis refuses to endorse the game. Same with Tasteless , Day9, and Grubby. Their silence is deafening. Tastosis were pretty positive about the game, Artosis probably more so from memory. Again from memory the Grubster had criticisms but considers the real core skeleton to be pretty good. Basically all hands-on reviews I’ve seen from various personalities is quite negative on the art style, misgivings on aspects of the gameplay but very positive on the absolute core gameplay on a QoL/engine level. Also most appraise it through the prism of it being an early build, and a wait-and-see attitude on some of their more negative feedback. In the interim we’ve seen Samwise Didier come on board so in that domain I expect a real step up. It’s disingenuous to make out at least Artosis wasn’t digging the game, he played a lot of it, he said he was having fun doing so. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17435 Posts
I have to question your life experience in the working world if you can not understand this basic analysis. They had to get a quote from BeastyQT and they couldn't get Tasteless or Artosis or Day9, or Grubby to agree to a quote in their promo? That's bad. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey443 Posts
Steam is filled with great games made by less than 5 people. I was talking about the next great RTS, not random indie games that may be fun for 10 hours. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17435 Posts
For the record... I've known and dealt with BeastyQT since I ran the CraftCup. He is a great guy. He loved that we paid out on the same day. That aside, BeastyQT, relative to guys like Grubby and Day9.. he is total unknown. On April 10 2024 00:38 _Spartak_ wrote: Artosis and Tasteless in particular played the game a ton. Stop namedropping people who clearly don't agree with you. I was talking about the next great RTS, not random indie games that may be fun for 10 hours. RTS teams are getting smaller and smaller. Stormgate is in for some stiff competition. Shiro games has a very small team working on Northgard. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26530 Posts
On April 10 2024 00:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Artosis quit playing the game. Both guys are not saying a word. That is the diplomatic thing to do. They are being kind and polite partly because they are generally classy human beings and partly because it is the best move for their long term career prospects. For example, you almost never hear them hard core trashing RTS games or their designers ever. Their actions will tell you what they truly believe. I have to question your life experience in the working world if you can not understand this basic analysis. Why wouldn’t they quit playing the game? It was a bare bones Alpha and Artosis as a streamer makes most of his dough from people who enjoy seeing him rage in BW. It’s curious how frequently ‘knowing how the world works’ and ‘what Jimmy personally thinks of an issue’ seem to so neatly align all the time eh? Without evidence to the contrary, and tbh I think Tastosis, or a Grubby are getting too old/diversifying what they do to really need Stormgate to work for them in a personal interest sense, I’ll take what people say at relative face value. Despite negativity obviously selling for folks who do YouTube content, I’ll also assume someone with more negative feedback like Beasty (least of ones I’ve watched) are being earnest with it, as that was the impression I got from his. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
There just wasn't much content available to make from such a short beta test that only had 1 map, 2 races, and tier 2 units On April 10 2024 00:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: For example, you almost never hear them hard core trashing RTS games or their designers ever. Their actions will tell you what they truly believe. Have you seen Artosis play sc2? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17435 Posts
On April 10 2024 00:42 WombaT wrote:I’ll take what people say at relative face value. When a company is scrounging for spare cash I never take what they say at face value. They could not get a big name to endorse the game so they got BeastyQT... who isn't exactly a teenager either. To any one giving Frsst Giant money based upon their StartEngine thing CAVEAT EMPTOR | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey443 Posts
RTS teams are getting smaller and smaller. Stormgate is in for some stiff competition. Shiro games has a very small team working on Northgard. I was talking about the next great RTS.Also, did you check the filings to see how many millions were paid to the agency as a finder's fee? Or are you still trying to figure out two people can have the same name? | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
It's greatbthat they all have some good to say about Stormgate and are hopeful in general, it's also good that some of them, like Beasty, have a bit of negative but constructive feedback | ||
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MegaBuster
167 Posts
I am caught imagining WHEN you start to make a quarter mil per year for a 'risky startup' of this nature. Did they make 250k out the gate? Just signing yourself a cheque for 5k/week of your 5 mil early seed startup bank while all you have is a greybox prototype in unreal engine. Would anyone who is trying to succeed do that? Or did they bump themselves up at the 25mil investment round? Like imagine looking at your game in the state seen in the 'look how much work we did in a year' video on youtube, with the unanimated flat colour models zooming around in circles and you see your reflection in the black glass of your screen and are like --- yes its time, I now deserve 250k per year. Your slack notification sound goes off - its TorcH - "Hey boss - umm have we decided how much money to dedicate to Esports yet?". You close the laptop. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5459 Posts
For pros opinions on Stormgate, isn't it pretty safe to say most were interested (to varying degrees) but thought the game still needs a lot of work? Artosis played it a ton on stream, I didn't see Tasteless or Beastyqt playing it. No YouTube/Streamer was really gushing about the game, but on the other side there isn't much point of bashing it and saying it will fail when the game is clearly not done. They were all hovering around neutral + being constructive (again, to varying degrees). I don't think constructive criticism is inherently negative, and if anything, is the opposite. Since the RTS scene is IMO pretty healthy, but niche, (BW strong, at least in Korea. SC2 is stable, AoE4/AOE2 pretty stable etc.) there aren't any "former" RTS people that really need to focus strongly on Stormgate at this time. Frost Giant have to impress and draw people from other games, they will attract "casual" RTS folks (hopefully, for their sake), on release and hopefully there's enough content to keep them. Personally, I think SC2 is in an excellent spot these days for watching pros and for playing. I'm hoping Stormgate is a success, but I think they have a big mountain of competition to climb. I think this next Frigate version with the 3rd race being playable will be really important for them. If it fails to impress or issues from previous builds aren't addressed (or started to be addressed), I do worry about their EA launch. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6832 Posts
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