EPTI like what I'm seeing so far
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 97
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
I like what I'm seeing so far | ||
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Spirral
62 Posts
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hgtfzhtrhfg
2 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2384 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24660 Posts
More of a cautious optimism than anything to go crazy, but for me a good sign at least | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2384 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16648 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:17 _Spartak_ wrote: Here is some context before the usual suspects chime in: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormgate/comments/1bfuj4g/frost_giant_and_stormgate_at_gdc_next_week/ uh oh, voice actors strike inbound... https://www.morningstar.com/news/marketwatch/20240323263/videogame-voice-actors-poised-to-strike-as-they-battle-ai-for-their-jobs "We're currently in bargaining with all the major game studios, and the major sticking point is AI," SAG-AFTRA National Executive Director Duncan Crabtree-Ireland said Thursday. "Actors at all levels are at risk of digital replication. We have strike authorization on that contract and it is, at this point - we could end up going on strike." Frost Giant can just do what many small studios do; that is, use their own employees to voice the game. Gearbox did this for Borderlands1 when they were a small studio. Even when Blizzard was big.. they still had Chris Metzen with the iconic Orc scream ... "For The Hord!" This possible strike doesn't mean much. Just a bunch of white noise. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2522 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24660 Posts
The whole thing is a regulatory mess au present, either we end up with some framework stipulating performer’s rights and remuneration if they allow opt-in replication or something, or the thing just drags out so long and AI companies have been doing it for so long that’ll end up in a ‘well it’s been like this for years too late to change it now’ kind of Wild West scenario. As per usual with my interjections on the topic, the tech has plenty of interesting application but it was built with very little ethical consideration, and IMO given some of the capabilities of some of these models, by running absolute roughshod over existing copyright and IP laws as well. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16648 Posts
When voices first came to video games they were CPU generated. Game companies can just go back to that. A guy who makes pretty cool strategy blogs on TL is interviewed here about Stormgate i'm not feeling the response rate was any better than SC2. FG's tech people stated this network tech is still in the experimental stage and that it might not appear in the final product. Some misinformation coming out of this... #1. The Agency of accountants and lawyers that brought in the $25 Million from Kakao Games took a massive cut. Its not like 1000 people were lining up to give Frost Giant 10s of millions of dollars. The agency bringing in FG's only big deal... knows the projects existence rests upon the deal being made and took a big piece of it. #2. Northgard had less than 20 full time employees building it. Someone is claiming it was 33 and that # is incorrect. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6841 Posts
On March 28 2024 16:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Some misinformation coming out of this... #1. The Agency of accountants and lawyers that brought in the $25 Million from Kakao Games took a massive cut. Its not like 1000 people were lining up to give Frost Giant 10s of millions of dollars. The agency bringing in FG's only big deal... knows the projects existence rests upon the deal being made and took a big piece of it. Source? You wrote some very huge numbers on YT | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey395 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16648 Posts
It is so funny that some big budget games take longer to make than it took to land a man on the moon. Kennedy's Rice University "we shall go to the moon" Speech occurred less than 7 years before Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. On March 28 2024 17:42 Harris1st wrote: Source? You wrote some very huge numbers on YT there is some comment about # of employees that worked on Northgard. I have info on that. IMDB shows 33 employees. A bunch of them are "double counted" and the community people are not part of development. One employee is present in 4 categories. He is only 1 person. Not 4. You end up with a number under 20. Northgard was developed by a very small team and it is maintained by a very small team. Check out their vidocs. On March 29 2024 03:14 _Spartak_ wrote: He doesn't have a source of course. He didn't even get the number of Kakao's investment right. Kakao invested $20m, not $25m (the other $5m in that round came from other investors). He mentioned a $9.7m "finder's fee" in the youtube comments, which is curiously the exact amount of money they raised prior to that $25m round. Probably misread it as a finder's fee somewhere. I am still not sure how you would misinterpret it as such but that's the only plausible explanation I can come up with. the lawyers and the accountants in these deals make a tonne of cash. that's not me in the youtube comments. It would not surprise me at all if millions out of the Kakao Investment didn't make it into the development budget for Stormgate. I'd be stunned if all $20 Million went into Stormgate. In general, it is far less expensive today in 2024, to make a game than it was in 2010 when SC2 was made because graphics are not getting better. A big part of the expense of a game until about 2020 was the new cutting edge graphics. Graphics have not substantially improved since 2015. Graphics have been so stagnant that a console with a 14 year old GPU, The Switch, is a massive success. Steam is over flowing with great games with massive amounts of content made by very small teams. Godsworn, Atomic Picnic, Retromania Wrestling, Risk of Rain 1, 2 and 3, Tape 2 Tape Hockey,... the list is endless. With each passing year it gets easier and easier to make a game for a console like the XBOX 360, PS4, Atari 2600, or SNES. Everyone gets familiar with the tech and the tools to make the game mature. THis same thing is happening with Unreal ENgine and Unity in the PC space. It is getting easier and easier to make games for Steam via Unreal and Unity as these tools continue to mature and the need for cutting edge graphical fidelity is no longer an issue. In 1981 genius developers like David Crane and Carol Shaw were making games that only years earlier were thought impossible for the 1977 Atari 2600. In 2024, this same thing is happening on a much larger scale with Steam//Unity//Unreal with PC hardware. Stormgate should not be that expensive to make. Just check out ZeroSpace bieng put together by a team held together with chicken wire and spit. This is , of course, a compliment to the Zerospace team. They've done a really nice job with very few resources. Stormgate is being made in one of the most expensive place on planet earth to make a game. If Frost Giant is having money problems... this is prolly a big contributing factor. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey395 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 29 2024 03:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Stormgate should not be that expensive to make. Just check out ZeroSpace bieng put together by a team held together with chicken wire and spit. This is , of course, a compliment to the Zerospace team. They've done a really nice job with very few resources. Stormgate is being made in one of the most expensive place on planet earth to make a game. If Frost Giant is having money problems... this is prolly a big contributing factor. Stormgate is attempting much, much more than ZeroSpace is. They've built their own engine and network. The responsiveness and pathfinding of Stormgate are way closer to the polish of Blizzard RTS than ZeroSpace is, not to mention their plans for rollback, having a global ladder, advanced player statistics and replay analysis, integrating esports and content creators into the client through live replays etc Even after that, Zerospace isn't focusing on ranked and PvE co-op. Co-op exists but it isn't their flagship gamemode. And ZeroSpace doesn't have an editor coming (as far as I'm aware), which is make or break for whether an RTS can reach it's full potential. This isn't a knock on ZeroSpace, I can't wait for it's full release, but it's not aiming to directly replace SC2 the same way Stormgate is. I don't think that "ZeroSpace was made for cheap, therefore Stormgate can be" really checks out | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
On March 31 2024 01:01 Fango wrote: Stormgate is attempting much, much more than ZeroSpace is. They've built their own engine and network. The responsiveness and pathfinding of Stormgate are way closer to the polish of Blizzard RTS than ZeroSpace is, not to mention their plans for rollback, having a global ladder, advanced player statistics and replay analysis, integrating esports and content creators into the client through live replays etc Even after that, Zerospace isn't focusing on ranked and PvE co-op. Co-op exists but it isn't their flagship gamemode. And ZeroSpace doesn't have an editor coming (as far as I'm aware), which is make or break for whether an RTS can reach it's full potential. This isn't a knock on ZeroSpace, I can't wait for it's full release, but it's not aiming to directly replace SC2 the same way Stormgate is. I don't think that "ZeroSpace was made for cheap, therefore Stormgate can be" really checks out I agree with this take. A lot of the infrastructure work to support the bigger scope is not easily visible to players the way graphics and gameplay are. So it's easy for laypeople to point to other games that look similar but are actually significantly less complex under the hood. That being said, it remains to be seen how much of that scope was acheived. To me the engine and editor look promising so far, but until we actually start playing the game in earnest and get our hands on the editor, all we can do is speculate. | ||
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Zealgoon
China187 Posts
Mind you, though, more ambitious isn't necessarily a good thing. Both games made some promises that I found more alarming than exciting. | ||
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KingzTig
155 Posts
On March 31 2024 01:01 Fango wrote: Stormgate is attempting much, much more than ZeroSpace is. They've built their own engine and network. The responsiveness and pathfinding of Stormgate are way closer to the polish of Blizzard RTS than ZeroSpace is, not to mention their plans for rollback, having a global ladder, advanced player statistics and replay analysis, integrating esports and content creators into the client through live replays etc Even after that, Zerospace isn't focusing on ranked and PvE co-op. Co-op exists but it isn't their flagship gamemode. And ZeroSpace doesn't have an editor coming (as far as I'm aware), which is make or break for whether an RTS can reach it's full potential. This isn't a knock on ZeroSpace, I can't wait for it's full release, but it's not aiming to directly replace SC2 the same way Stormgate is. I don't think that "ZeroSpace was made for cheap, therefore Stormgate can be" really checks out At the end we want a good RTS, a lot of features you listed are good esports components and a good bedrock for custom games but that's that. I don't think a good RTS needs all that. The game needs to be fun, stormgate units and engagements are frankly just dull imo, it's also too close to starcraft 2 which despite all the flaws, is still much better than SG in every way possible. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 31 2024 14:35 Zealgoon wrote: It could also be argued that ZS is attempting more than SG. It has 4 races compared to SG's 3 (considering how long it's taking SG to make the 3rd race I'm fairly confident we won't be getting a 4th), merceneries, heroes, a much more choice driven campaign (supposedly), and that bizarre galaxy war thing which I don't know if it has been scrapped yet. Mind you, though, more ambitious isn't necessarily a good thing. Both games made some promises that I found more alarming than exciting. It's not the same, ZS is attempting much less from a technical perspective, even if it's more in terms of story and number of units. The pathfinding for example is pretty rudimentary with units just kinda floating around. There are custom maps in sc2 made by random people that have countless different units and interactions, it's not costly to add more variations of units, it's costly to build an engine that can do that and the network that can handle it. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 31 2024 20:08 KingzTig wrote: At the end we want a good RTS, a lot of features you listed are good esports components and a good bedrock for custom games but that's that. I don't think a good RTS needs all that. The game needs to be fun, stormgate units and engagements are frankly just dull imo, it's also too close to starcraft 2 which despite all the flaws, is still much better than SG in every way possible. Those features aren't necessary for a regular RTS that just focuses on selling a fun campaign. But they are 100% necessary if a game wants to actually replace SC2 as the premier multiplayer RTS, or even better to become a game that makes the genre more popular. It needs to have a modern RTS engine, a fantastic editor (probably the most important thing), and all things that SC2 missed out on (esports integration, live observing, global ladder etc). | ||
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