EPTStormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 93
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
On March 12 2024 03:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The game looks like it was made by 5 or less guys in less than a year. With the maturity of game making tools these days all it takes is a small team to build a game. Shiro Games was a tiny indie studio when a small part of the company made Northgard. And game making tools have only improved since then. Game making tools don't get worse over time. They get better. It is hard to tell how good Frost Giant is right now though. Let's see what they come up with in the next six months. I don't disagree with the sentiment but I've done solo dev and let me tell you the part of the game you see on screen is just the tip of the iceberg. If you care about making a quality product it takes a metric ton of foundational work that players are never going to see. To use a house as an example, people will complain about the color of the drapes or how they don't like the furniture but it's less common to pay attention to how well the plumbing and electrical work, how stable the foundations are, or the quality of the materials. In my opinion Stormgate seems to actually have a well-engineered game engine unlike many of the other RTS games I see out there. Losing it would be a damn shame. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On March 13 2024 05:10 LunarC wrote: I don't disagree with the sentiment but I've done solo dev and let me tell you the part of the game you see on screen is just the tip of the iceberg. If you care about making a quality product it takes a metric ton of foundational work that players are never going to see. To use a house as an example, people will complain about the color of the drapes or how they don't like the furniture but it's less common to pay attention to how well the plumbing and electrical work, how stable the foundations are, or the quality of the materials. In my opinion Stormgate seems to actually have a well-engineered game engine unlike many of the other RTS games I see out there. Losing it would be a damn shame. Fair, but to a point. Decisions on how to employ it may differ, clumping or various other game states and how that manifests? Is the core engine much better than SC2’s? I’d argue it isn’t really. | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2250 Posts
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
On March 13 2024 05:29 WombaT wrote: Fair, but to a point. Decisions on how to employ it may differ, clumping or various other game states and how that manifests? Is the core engine much better than SC2’s? I’d argue it isn’t really. From a dev standpoint I'd consider it better by virtue of being built on top of Unreal Engine. Their custom RTS engine is already capable of higher update tick rate with rollback, so in theory its net code is more robust than the SC2 engine. And since Frost Giant's RTS engine runs on top of Unreal and therefore doesn't need to handle rendering or platform-specific stuff, it's (again in theory) much more portable than SC2. Another benefit of being plugged into Unreal Engine would be benefitting from updates to Unreal Engine's capabilities. Most importantly (IMO) the map editor is the greatest strength StormGate would bring to the table since it's already built on top of a general purpose game engine and so likely uses industry-standard workflows, data formats. SC2 map editor is tailor-made for SC2 and so likely has a higher learning curve and more limitations. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On March 13 2024 10:12 LunarC wrote: From a dev standpoint I'd consider it better by virtue of being built on top of Unreal Engine. Their custom RTS engine is already capable of higher update tick rate with rollback, so in theory its net code is more robust than the SC2 engine. And since Frost Giant's RTS engine runs on top of Unreal and therefore doesn't need to handle rendering or platform-specific stuff, it's (again in theory) much more portable than SC2. Another benefit of being plugged into Unreal Engine would be benefitting from updates to Unreal Engine's capabilities. Most importantly (IMO) the map editor is the greatest strength StormGate would bring to the table since it's already built on top of a general purpose game engine and so likely uses industry-standard workflows, data formats. SC2 map editor is tailor-made for SC2 and so likely has a higher learning curve and more limitations. Very good points to be fair. You’re actually talking about the engine itself as opposed to it being a byword for things like performance/path finding etc Can’t disagree there, although as yet regardless of the engine at play it’s still not quite as rock solid as SC2 is mechanically, IMO anyway | ||
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End1ess
Canada74 Posts
On March 13 2024 05:10 LunarC wrote: I don't disagree with the sentiment but I've done solo dev and let me tell you the part of the game you see on screen is just the tip of the iceberg. If you care about making a quality product it takes a metric ton of foundational work that players are never going to see. To use a house as an example, people will complain about the color of the drapes or how they don't like the furniture but it's less common to pay attention to how well the plumbing and electrical work, how stable the foundations are, or the quality of the materials. In my opinion Stormgate seems to actually have a well-engineered game engine unlike many of the other RTS games I see out there. Losing it would be a damn shame. Yes, there many things inside the game we never see but they have a full team with years even decades of experience to just work on one thing. To your house example, they have a team just for plumbing and another for electrical. Compare yourself doing everything is not being realistic. Even a broken window an avenge Joe takes a weekend to fix but when you hire a contractor with the right tools can be done in a few hours. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17165 Posts
I posted the #s so far. https://tl.net/forum/games/594282-stormgate-frost-giant-megathread?page=92 Northgard was made with a team substantially smaller than Frost Giant. Here are the #s https://steamcharts.com/app/466560 IMO, Northgard is more fun than Stormgate. It is easier to make a game like Northgard or Stormgate today than it was when Northgard was made in 2017. The game making tools are far better and more mature. Frost Giant should be building a story line arc around the mystery of .. "Who Is THe 3rd Faction?". If that storyline is pulled off properly the results can be epic. Think of "Who Is The 3rd Man" from Hulk Hogan turning into a bad guy. Who Is The 3rd Man? Hulk Hogan Is The 3rd Man! ! ! People have been questioning why Frost Giant decided to go with a 3v3 team mode. Frost Giant's money source, Kakao Games, is located in Korea and in Korea 3v3 team games are big. | ||
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gTank
Austria2601 Posts
On March 14 2024 04:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote: All kinds of super small teams on Steam are cranking out all kinds of super fun games. This Includes RTS games. Frost Giant is to be judged by only 1 standard... the results they produce. I posted the #s so far. https://tl.net/forum/games/594282-stormgate-frost-giant-megathread?page=92 Northgard was made with a team substantially smaller than Frost Giant. Here are the #s https://steamcharts.com/app/466560 IMO, Northgard is more fun than Stormgate. Frost Giant should be building a story line arc around the mystery of .. "Who Is THe 3rd Faction?". If that storyline is pulled off properly the results can be epic. Think of "Who Is The 3rd Man" from Hulk Hogan turning into a bad guy. Who Is The 3rd Man? Hulk Hogan Is The 3rd Man! ! ! People have been questioning why Frost Giant decided to go with a 3v3 team mode. Frost Giant's money source, Kakao Games, is located in Korea and in Korea 3v3 team games are big. I totally forgot about Northgard! Such a gem of a game, feels similar to the newer Dune game. And I agree, Northgard was way more fun than Stormgate. | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
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Zealgoon
China187 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7021 Posts
Hardly comparable | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17165 Posts
So Frost Giant should be able to make this game with a small team. They spent some time explaining how efficient they are. Welp, my response harkens back to that great song by the uber genius band Rush: Show Me Don't Tell Me. On March 14 2024 21:47 Harris1st wrote: Isn't Northguard a PvE game? Multiplayer was patched in much later and is more like a fun gimmick than a real mode. Hardly comparable I disagree. It is comparable. I'll break my response down into two or 2 parts. #1. Northgard multiplayer on Switch is more fun than Stormgate. Part (B) 80%+ of the Stormgate player base will play in the PvE modes that makes Northgard well known. Hopefully, Frost Giant can do more than just dream of a game as commercially and critically successful as Northgard. Because its getting easier and easier to make games Shiro probably has a smaller and smaller team working on Northgard every year while also being able to crank out just as much super cool + Show Spoiler + AI generated  | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17165 Posts
On March 15 2024 05:40 WombaT wrote: I still don’t think that’s what’s particularly driving layoffs. Perhaps a contributory factor sure. IMO, the #1 factor is higher interest rates. However, it is easier to make games and the money men at the top know it. The money men will never say it is easier because they want maximum money for their game. The money men know they can reduce staff and demand similar output all while yapping about how there is 10 weeks paid vacation time along with an emotional support puppy in the office for the employees. | ||
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KingzTig
155 Posts
On March 14 2024 04:47 gTank wrote: I totally forgot about Northgard! Such a gem of a game, feels similar to the newer Dune game. And I agree, Northgard was way more fun than Stormgate. Same develop team I believe. Personally I think SG and Northgard are too different to compare. PvE on stormgate is more like a casual break from the 1v1 or team games. Godsworn on the other hand looks incredible, by two developers only. | ||
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MegaBuster
167 Posts
and look many of you will jump to very negative conclusions here but I know in my heart that it means, yes, TORCH HAS RETURNED he has come back and he has grabbed the levers of control behind the scenes to pilot us to our new home planet | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4374 Posts
On March 15 2024 06:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote: IMO, the #1 factor is higher interest rates. However, it is easier to make games and the money men at the top know it. The money men will never say it is easier because they want maximum money for their game. The money men know they can reduce staff and demand similar output all while yapping about how there is 10 weeks paid vacation time along with an emotional support puppy in the office for the employees. I don't think that's the main reason. Over 14,000 games were released on steam last year which is 10x more than a decade ago.Market is oversaturated, too many releases, of course you will see layoffs. | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria378 Posts
On March 15 2024 09:52 MegaBuster wrote: stormheads they are removing the community api and look many of you will jump to very negative conclusions here but I know in my heart that it means, yes, TORCH HAS RETURNED he has come back and he has grabbed the levers of control behind the scenes to pilot us to our new home planet Can FGS stop taking Ls? Man, these guys keep getting suckier and suckier by the second. Freaking corpos always trying to convince people that they're friends. What's next, you gotta pay to have access to the 3rd race? Can they just go bankrupt already? At this point, it's just pathetic. | ||
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gTank
Austria2601 Posts
On March 15 2024 09:22 KingzTig wrote: Same develop team I believe. Personally I think SG and Northgard are too different to compare. PvE on stormgate is more like a casual break from the 1v1 or team games. Godsworn on the other hand looks incredible, by two developers only. I will buy Godsworn like 4 times just to support them. It feels also so super great to play, the demo was nice. Also 2 devs (had help with graphics but still) did this and the game feels more fun than SG for me. | ||
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