EPTCoop testing starts in a week by the way
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 54
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Harris1st
Germany7176 Posts
Coop testing starts in a week by the way | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey443 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 30 2023 02:13 Hider wrote: The gameplay still looks kinda bland. I haven't seen any type of micro interactions yet from Stormgate that made me excited. They've also announced showmatches at Dreamhack Atlanta, which will showcase micro interactions better than any concept-orientated video can. Personally that's almost more exiting than seeing a new trailer. Will probably end up being a plus for both sc2 at dreamhack, and stormgate building up attention. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On November 30 2023 03:35 Fango wrote: They've also announced showmatches at Dreamhack Atlanta, which will showcase micro interactions better than any concept-orientated video can. Personally that's almost more exiting than seeing a new trailer. Will probably end up being a plus for both sc2 at dreamhack, and stormgate building up attention. I would have imagined that in concept-based gameplay it's far easier to show of the gameplay you want the target group to see. Because you can design unrealistic/isolated scenarios that showcase the desired gameplay. Whereas in showmatches players might do boring imbalanced strategies. Anyway, I got into closed beta. So I will definitely give it a fair chance. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 30 2023 04:20 Hider wrote: I would have imagined that in concept-based gameplay it's far easier to show of the gameplay you want the target group to see. Because you can design unrealistic/isolated scenarios that showcase the desired gameplay. Whereas in showmatches players might do boring imbalanced strategies. Anyway, I got into closed beta. So I will definitely give it a fair chance. Well it's also an IGN video. They aren't particularly hardcore RTS people. I wouldn't expect them to show anything more than cool looking units and abilities, nor should they to be honest. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On November 30 2023 05:14 Fango wrote: Well it's also an IGN video. They aren't particularly hardcore RTS people. I wouldn't expect them to show anything more than cool looking units and abilities, nor should they to be honest. I would expect that if Frostgiant had some material that they believed could target the average player, they would distribute it to IGN. Is there anything you've seen from the IGN footage that makes you think a decently sized playerbase finds this very interesting? | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2399 Posts
On November 30 2023 07:29 Hider wrote: I would expect that if Frostgiant had some material that they believed could target the average player, they would distribute it to IGN. Is there anything you've seen from the IGN footage that makes you think a decently sized playerbase finds this very interesting? Pretty sure Fango means the average potential player. RTS as a genre might be mostly dead with only the hardcores remaining, and I agree that the video doesn't do an amazing job of targetting them. Back in the day though, lots of people bought SC1/SC2 and WC2/WC3, and a lot of them rapidly bounced off online play and simply enjoyed them as well made RTS games with good campaigns. I think this sort of video does a decent job of appealing to them. Except, to me at least, it feels so similar to those traditional games that I wonder what new it has to offer. The little bits of uniqueness here and there, and reshuffling what race gets what, might create some new emergent dynamics, sure. But the video is even comparing a bunch of things to existing SC2 units, which I don't like. Someone in this thread said "what, so what we really want is just a well-made mod for WC3 or SC2?" and honestly, the answer might be yes. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26745 Posts
On November 30 2023 07:29 Hider wrote: I would expect that if Frostgiant had some material that they believed could target the average player, they would distribute it to IGN. Is there anything you've seen from the IGN footage that makes you think a decently sized playerbase finds this very interesting? I’m unsure how the pipelines work these days, have a youngling myself and he sorts of gravitates to what his mates are playing, and his mates will play what he’s playing. And it feels in that sense the big games are simply bigger than in my youth, platforms are more homogenised, and kids are more connected with their peers, so there’s less natural space to go try something new out. RTS and arena shooters are two genres hit really hard by this, especially with the latter for reasons I don't quite understand, or well, zone in on which of the innumerable reasons are most impactful and rectifiable. From my limited experience my kiddo saw me watching SC or playing a bit of Unreal Tournament, had a go at both and thought they were really cool and bemoaned there not being modern versions of the latter. But he’s not playing those genres if he didn’t have me as his da, how to get a totally new audience, not introduced to it by parents or whatever feels a pretty tough nut to crack. On the other hand, Baldur’s Gate 3 isn’t super flashy and exciting, nor particularly innovative, but it captured lightning in a bottle, crested a wave of word-of-mouth and was hugely successful outside of traditional DND RPG diehards. The problem is capturing lightning in a bottle is notoriously difficult but I think it shows there is hope at audience expansion in more niche genres. The Souls series was something a little different sure, but it rode a similar wave by virtue of being very good and the strange ‘get gud’ hype. The game has to be good first and foremost, I don’t think it has to reinvent the wheel considering the new audience is just that, a new audience who hasn’t experienced its forefathers. Maybe a few big general game streamers pick it up and respond positively and momentum builds from there. Who knows really. It’s a rare game that I think has the potential to basically land anywhere on the success/failure spectrum. Worst case it’s not that great, doesn’t even capture the hearts of its traditional target audience and the F2P model really fucks it. Best case it helps reinvigorate a whole genre | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2709 Posts
On November 30 2023 10:03 WombaT wrote: I’m unsure how the pipelines work these days, have a youngling myself and he sorts of gravitates to what his mates are playing, and his mates will play what he’s playing. And it feels in that sense the big games are simply bigger than in my youth, platforms are more homogenised, and kids are more connected with their peers, so there’s less natural space to go try something new out. RTS and arena shooters are two genres hit really hard by this, especially with the latter for reasons I don't quite understand, or well, zone in on which of the innumerable reasons are most impactful and rectifiable. From my limited experience my kiddo saw me watching SC or playing a bit of Unreal Tournament, had a go at both and thought they were really cool and bemoaned there not being modern versions of the latter. But he’s not playing those genres if he didn’t have me as his da, how to get a totally new audience, not introduced to it by parents or whatever feels a pretty tough nut to crack. On the other hand, Baldur’s Gate 3 isn’t super flashy and exciting, nor particularly innovative, but it captured lightning in a bottle, crested a wave of word-of-mouth and was hugely successful outside of traditional DND RPG diehards. The problem is capturing lightning in a bottle is notoriously difficult but I think it shows there is hope at audience expansion in more niche genres. The Souls series was something a little different sure, but it rode a similar wave by virtue of being very good and the strange ‘get gud’ hype. The game has to be good first and foremost, I don’t think it has to reinvent the wheel considering the new audience is just that, a new audience who hasn’t experienced its forefathers. Maybe a few big general game streamers pick it up and respond positively and momentum builds from there. Who knows really. It’s a rare game that I think has the potential to basically land anywhere on the success/failure spectrum. Worst case it’s not that great, doesn’t even capture the hearts of its traditional target audience and the F2P model really fucks it. Best case it helps reinvigorate a whole genre Just as a sidenote, I don't feel like BG3 was capturing lightning in a bottle so much as the convergence of three reputable storms already: The notoriety of the original Baldur's Gate series, the success of Larian's recent two CRPGS, and the general interest in DnD the last decade or so, highlighted by Critical Role / RollPlay / Dungeons and Daddies etc. Don't get me wrong, BG3 is a solid game, I just don't see it as a breakout success for DnD as a genre. | ||
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BeoMulf
United States94 Posts
On November 29 2023 12:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote: "Real Talk Strategy" is a very good show. I highly recommend it. WTF answer is that? LOL. If everything is great and funded like Frost Giant is saying then ZG should just continue with her effusive praise of the amazing company that Frost Giant is. ZG has been heaping praise on FG for months now. All of a sudden she is quiet now. Also, she labels this question "controversial". If everything is great and FG really has $35M USD in cash in the bank right now then how is this question controversial? its a dumb question if FG really has $35M USD in cash in their bank ready to spend on the game. so the game is in a state that it needs QA Testing. Having a game in a state where you just need 100,000 users to stress test the servers is a long way off from having a game with only 1 faction working and it still requires QA Testing. Later on in the segment ZG issues a pretty brutal analysis of what is going on... and the dead silence of her co-hosts is telling. Its been sunshine, rainbows, and Santa Claus parades for months. Now, the back tracking has begun. Now we're in "managed expectations" mode. Check out "Real Talk Strategy" episodes about Stormgate from months ago and everyone is grinning from ear to ear. Its just a great old time! Then check out the November 22 episode. It looks like they're covering a funeral. ???? We were reacting to news that dropped as the episode was happening - we had zero prep for the announcement and were reading and forming opinions about the post in real time. Of course I'm not going to come in guns blazing with an opininon one way or the other when I'm reading it live, and I'm certainly going to steer clear of anything that might skirt an NDA without prep. Re: QA - the game enters closed beta december 5. Of course it needs QA/testing - the Alpha update video had grey box units! More importantly, the game is just barely reaching beta - expecting release polish is quite frankly insane, regardless of what game it is. Paying for an early beta has always been "paying to be an extra QA tester" - regardless of game and genre. The good news is that, unlike something like AOE4 that made minimal changes between beta and release, Frost Giant is actually making significant leaps with each build. Finally, I object to this idea that I'm covering a funeral or something that's doomed to die. I'm hella excited for Stormgate - especially the showmatchs at Dreamhack Atlanta. Please don't put words into my mouth | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26745 Posts
On November 30 2023 12:46 Fleetfeet wrote: Just as a sidenote, I don't feel like BG3 was capturing lightning in a bottle so much as the convergence of three reputable storms already: The notoriety of the original Baldur's Gate series, the success of Larian's recent two CRPGS, and the general interest in DnD the last decade or so, highlighted by Critical Role / RollPlay / Dungeons and Daddies etc. Don't get me wrong, BG3 is a solid game, I just don't see it as a breakout success for DnD as a genre. Yeah in fairness I forgot about the recent DnD popularisation too, although in groups I’m in it’s attracted folks who aren’t into it, or even turn-based RPGs. But I guess the initial hype wave probably pulled those kinds of folks in | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 30 2023 12:46 Fleetfeet wrote: Just as a sidenote, I don't feel like BG3 was capturing lightning in a bottle so much as the convergence of three reputable storms already: The notoriety of the original Baldur's Gate series, the success of Larian's recent two CRPGS, and the general interest in DnD the last decade or so, highlighted by Critical Role / RollPlay / Dungeons and Daddies etc. Don't get me wrong, BG3 is a solid game, I just don't see it as a breakout success for DnD as a genre. Well the sheer success BG3 had was definitely unexpected. We're talking 10x the active players (on steam) of DOS2's all-time peak. And the games aren't all that different. I was pleasantly surprised just how many friends/coworkers ended up playing it, as most of them never touched tabletop or any of Larian's previous games. Sure, it had the benefit of a basically guaranteed initial playerbase from those groups you mentioned, but it's mainstream popularity came from word of mouth and unanimous glowing reviews. As for Stormgate, they also have a guaranteed initial playerbase from RTS diehards and content creators. While they can't actually call the game SC3 or WC4, the headlines all alluding to it being a spiritual successor will draw at least some fans of those franchises. It's also worth noting that one of the reasons BG3's initial reviews were so good is because the first act of the game is really fantastic, and the reason for that is because it spent 3 years in early access with only the first act of the game available. They essentially had 3 years of feedback and improvements on the portion of the game that reviewers were going to play. Frost Giant mentioned it being an early access success story and has inspired them to increase the availability of EA and get more feedback in, which I see as a good thing, at least compared to the secrecy of how Blizzard did it. | ||
Waxangel
United States33597 Posts
At the same time, I do think there was a LOT of meat left on the bone with SC2 co-op mode, and I'd be totally happy with Stormgate if just continued that lineage of co-op play. As for 1v1 competitive, I still think the door is still wide open for both success/failure. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2709 Posts
On December 01 2023 02:49 Fango wrote: Well the sheer success BG3 had was definitely unexpected. We're talking 10x the active players (on steam) of DOS2's all-time peak. And the games aren't all that different. I was pleasantly surprised just how many friends/coworkers ended up playing it, as most of them never touched tabletop or any of Larian's previous games. Sure, it had the benefit of a basically guaranteed initial playerbase from those groups you mentioned, but it's mainstream popularity came from word of mouth and unanimous glowing reviews. As for Stormgate, they also have a guaranteed initial playerbase from RTS diehards and content creators. While they can't actually call the game SC3 or WC4, the headlines all alluding to it being a spiritual successor will draw at least some fans of those franchises. It's also worth noting that one of the reasons BG3's initial reviews were so good is because the first act of the game is really fantastic, and the reason for that is because it spent 3 years in early access with only the first act of the game available. They essentially had 3 years of feedback and improvements on the portion of the game that reviewers were going to play. Frost Giant mentioned it being an early access success story and has inspired them to increase the availability of EA and get more feedback in, which I see as a good thing, at least compared to the secrecy of how Blizzard did it. Valid! I didn't do any research outside of my own circles. 10x is many times more. That sounds bigger than I understood. For RTS, I feel like there's not as strong a convergence of playerbase, and one of the confounding elements is that a lot of us don't really know what we even want it to be. There's a lot of room for the RTS setting to be used as a format to tell stories (homeworld), or as a co-op experience (co-op commander), or competitive/esports etc. RTS is divided in what it wants to be, and while stormgate is vying for the esports angle, I'm curious how that'll turn out. | ||
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baykma
4 Posts
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mindjames
Israel433 Posts
On December 01 2023 06:29 baykma wrote: If there was alot of "meat left" on coop or other modes, Blizzard would have further invested into them. But people werent interested, so they had to drop it eventually. Kinda like they do with Battlegrounds in Hearthstone Another explanation: Blizzard, specifically, had more profitable avenues than StarCraft as a whole. If co-op specifically were that unpopular, then surely FGS (who were privy to the data) would not be as excited to make it a core part of the game. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On December 01 2023 06:29 baykma wrote: If there was alot of "meat left" on coop or other modes, Blizzard would have further invested into them. But people werent interested, so they had to drop it eventually. Kinda like they do with Battlegrounds in Hearthstone You really think Blizzard, especially in it's modern state, is a company that just makes whatever it's community has interest in? From what info was available, coop was the most popular gamemode, and was largely paid content (you had to buy most of the commanders to level them up). It was very likely a profitable model. Even ladder was making money through skins and announcers, not to mention how successful the war chests were (iirc they were hitting the $800k goals in like a week, and presumably were ending somewhere in the millions). Blizz simply dropped sc2 because it made millions, not billions. | ||
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baykma
4 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On December 01 2023 03:28 Waxangel wrote: My personal feeling from playing some closed Alpha is that it FEELS a lot like SC2, for better or for worse. Personally, I feel like some of the more negative reviewers back in 2010 when StarCraft II first came out, who were going "wait, what's actually NEW?" At the same time, I do think there was a LOT of meat left on the bone with SC2 co-op mode, and I'd be totally happy with Stormgate if just continued that lineage of co-op play. As for 1v1 competitive, I still think the door is still wide open for both success/failure. Do you think they can succeed through great co-op? Personally, I never cared about anything other than 1v1. And I start to wonder whether this game is for me. Some years ago I might be satisfied with learning a new 1v1 game and all the new strats/potential. But at this point in time, learning new strats/builds for the sake of spending brain-energy is a burden to me. I have other things in life I prefer to spend brain power on . However, I would be interested in a new game that has some really cool mechanics- in that case I could see my time spending "brain energy" as the reward could be high. | ||
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