On October 31 2025 07:42 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Well, Stormgate is reaching peaks of 27 players per day and lows of 8, the Stormgate Reddit is completely dead, and this thread is only kept alive by talking about how great indie games are and how terrible AAA games have become.
I'm going to try and take a real break from all of this Stormgate stuff for a bit. Maybe I'll check in at the end of November, when Frost Giant has to start repaying that $2 million loan.
Still new threads with dozens of comments practically every day on /r/stormgate. Sure, they're circling the same topics and arguments over and over, but it's kind of amazing after 3 months with no official communication. At this point anyone trashing the game is doing more to promote it than every FrostGiant employee combined.
On October 31 2025 07:42 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Well, Stormgate is reaching peaks of 27 players per day and lows of 8, the Stormgate Reddit is completely dead, and this thread is only kept alive by talking about how great indie games are and how terrible AAA games have become.
I'm going to try and take a real break from all of this Stormgate stuff for a bit. Maybe I'll check in at the end of November, when Frost Giant has to start repaying that $2 million loan.
Still new threads with dozens of comments practically every day on /r/stormgate. Sure, they're circling the same topics and arguments over and over, but it's kind of amazing after 3 months with no official communication. At this point anyone trashing the game is doing more to promote it than every FrostGiant employee combined.
The volume of posts and comments is way down over the last few weeks, though. But yeah, it's the most anyone anywhere is talking about Stormgate.
I noticed that a lot more people in the Frost Giant LinkedIn page have put the "Open to Work" banner on their profiles now. The few folks who haven't are either one of the Tims, or contractors who haven't worked on the game in years. For example, there are no QA people left, one artist, one animator, and one developer. And Monk, of course, even though he previously updated his profile to say his last day was in July. It is quite possible that the remaining people just haven't updated their LinkedIn yet, even though they no longer receive a paycheck.
I feel badly for the (former) Frost Giant employees. It's a really tough time to be in the games industry right now, with all the big companies continuing to lay off thousands of people every few months (and in the case of Amazon, tens of thousands).
Nothing from Stormgate Central since August 5. Nothing from Stormgate Nexus since August 5 as well. I guess August 5 was the game's unannounced, unofficial last day of active support. Ironically, August 5 was the day US President Ronald Reagan fired 11,359 striking air-traffic controllers in 1981.
On November 01 2025 04:47 Jeremy Reimer wrote: It is quite possible that the remaining people just haven't updated their LinkedIn yet, even though they no longer receive a paycheck.
I feel badly for the (former) Frost Giant employees. It's a really tough time to be in the games industry right now, with all the big companies continuing to lay off thousands of people every few months (and in the case of Amazon, tens of thousands).
pay cheque. I don't feel badly for any one in the industry. in 2010 US spending on games was ~$10B. Now, it is $58B. If these super talented delicate geniuses can't find a way to navigate those waters that's on them.
The industry I service has gone from $425B to $1000B during that same time span. The only way people in this growing industry don't have a job is if they don't want a job.
On November 02 2025 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Nothing from Stormgate Central since August 5. Nothing from Stormgate Nexus since August 5 as well. I guess August 5 was the game's unannounced, unofficial last day of active support. Ironically, August 5 was the day US President Ronald Reagan fired 11,359 striking air-traffic controllers in 1981.
On November 01 2025 04:47 Jeremy Reimer wrote: It is quite possible that the remaining people just haven't updated their LinkedIn yet, even though they no longer receive a paycheck.
I feel badly for the (former) Frost Giant employees. It's a really tough time to be in the games industry right now, with all the big companies continuing to lay off thousands of people every few months (and in the case of Amazon, tens of thousands).
pay cheque. I don't feel badly for any one in the industry. in 2010 US spending on games was ~$10B. Now, it is $58B. If these super talented delicate geniuses can't find a way to navigate those waters that's on them.
The industry I service has gone from $425B to $1000B during that same time span. The only way people in this growing industry don't have a job is if they don't want a job.
More spending doesn't necessarily mean game devs have it better now. That spending could go elsewhere, e.g. into advertisement and the pockets of CEOs. I don't think game devs get a good salary on average compared to other IT jobs requiring similar skills/qualification.
I think the main problem any game company has is twofold. Much higher expectations. Much harder competition. So if you want to do AAA it is insanely expensive. If you do lower tiers you have to be the best in your niche and have some marketing to make money or get lucky.
If you put out Warcraft 2 today it would get no players. Sure you can make that game easily, doesn't mean it has any customers.
The vast majority of released games are fine or shovelware, they still make a loss in most cases.
An example, used to be 700-900 games per year on console. Now a days it is around 400. But just Steam has 19k+ while phone games and online games keep being very popular. So amount of releases per year is probably up more than 10x while a few behemoths in live service swallows most of the increase in total spending.
On October 31 2025 12:06 Manit0u wrote: Speaking of indie games...
Pretty crazy stories. Guys that did Goat Simulator previously now made a game for a jam, liked the concept and went with it. Game done and released in 3 months, over a million copies sold, thousands of concurrent players (and it's a 4-5 player game)...
I don't agree with the line "6 games, the same pattern, small team, low budget, unique...". As in, I don't think those are the main reasons why these games became successful because that is also true for a lot of games that are not successful. Those games hit other important points. Or mainly one point, which is insane dopamin explosions. The only game in that list that is unique imho is the first one with the van. There are literally 2 slot machine games (wow, so unique) and another "two crazy explosions and numbers everywhere" rogue likes. And the last one is basically a rip off with a funny twist - probably well done but also not unique.
Rogue-like is just mega popular because it can easily be picked up and has tons of potential for an addictive game loop and dopamin explosions. I'm personally sick of this because for me it makes games worse in most cases. Against the Storm was mentioned earlier and I think it is a brilliant city builder/exploration RTS. But the extreme randomness of goals and where to find them of the map can just ruin an entire run, which can take like 7-10 hours. It's intended and I hate it.
On November 02 2025 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Nothing from Stormgate Central since August 5. Nothing from Stormgate Nexus since August 5 as well. I guess August 5 was the game's unannounced, unofficial last day of active support. Ironically, August 5 was the day US President Ronald Reagan fired 11,359 striking air-traffic controllers in 1981.
On November 01 2025 04:47 Jeremy Reimer wrote: It is quite possible that the remaining people just haven't updated their LinkedIn yet, even though they no longer receive a paycheck.
I feel badly for the (former) Frost Giant employees. It's a really tough time to be in the games industry right now, with all the big companies continuing to lay off thousands of people every few months (and in the case of Amazon, tens of thousands).
pay cheque. I don't feel badly for any one in the industry. in 2010 US spending on games was ~$10B. Now, it is $58B. If these super talented delicate geniuses can't find a way to navigate those waters that's on them.
The industry I service has gone from $425B to $1000B during that same time span. The only way people in this growing industry don't have a job is if they don't want a job.
More spending doesn't necessarily mean game devs have it better now. That spending could go elsewhere, e.g. into advertisement and the pockets of CEOs. I don't think game devs get a good salary on average compared to other IT jobs requiring similar skills/qualification.
if you work in an industry where revenue and profits are skyrocketing by 4.5X and that industry lays people off constantly and offers zero stability while paying you half of what you are worth some place else... that's on you. that is your calculated, adult decision. IMO, its a bad decision. Hey, if someone wants to play martyr ... they can have fun.
in the industry I service the pay is skyrocketing right along with the profits and revenue. furthermore, it is 100X more stable. and that is how it should be. Things should be stable and improving whenever profits and revenue are skyrocketing. If they are not, they're lying when they say that can't pay you nor offer stable work. you want to work for frauds and liars? have fun.
On November 02 2025 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Nothing from Stormgate Central since August 5. Nothing from Stormgate Nexus since August 5 as well. I guess August 5 was the game's unannounced, unofficial last day of active support. Ironically, August 5 was the day US President Ronald Reagan fired 11,359 striking air-traffic controllers in 1981.
On November 01 2025 04:47 Jeremy Reimer wrote: It is quite possible that the remaining people just haven't updated their LinkedIn yet, even though they no longer receive a paycheck.
I feel badly for the (former) Frost Giant employees. It's a really tough time to be in the games industry right now, with all the big companies continuing to lay off thousands of people every few months (and in the case of Amazon, tens of thousands).
pay cheque. I don't feel badly for any one in the industry. in 2010 US spending on games was ~$10B. Now, it is $58B. If these super talented delicate geniuses can't find a way to navigate those waters that's on them.
The industry I service has gone from $425B to $1000B during that same time span. The only way people in this growing industry don't have a job is if they don't want a job.
More spending doesn't necessarily mean game devs have it better now. That spending could go elsewhere, e.g. into advertisement and the pockets of CEOs. I don't think game devs get a good salary on average compared to other IT jobs requiring similar skills/qualification.
if you work in an industry where revenue and profits are skyrocketing by 4.5X and that industry lays people off constantly and offers zero stability while paying you half of what you are worth some place else... that's on you. that is your calculated, adult decision. IMO, its a bad decision. Hey, if someone wants to play martyr ... they can have fun.
in the industry I service the pay is skyrocketing right along with the profits and revenue. furthermore, it is 100X more stable. and that is how it should be. Things should be stable and improving whenever profits and revenue are skyrocketing. If they are not, they're lying when they say that can't pay you nor offer stable work. you want to work for frauds and liars? have fun.
Do you compete with people that do it for free for 3-4 years to get a product out because they enjoy it? That is the lower end of the gaming market. That means it is a horrible industry to work in for most people, you are competing with free.
On November 02 2025 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Nothing from Stormgate Central since August 5. Nothing from Stormgate Nexus since August 5 as well. I guess August 5 was the game's unannounced, unofficial last day of active support. Ironically, August 5 was the day US President Ronald Reagan fired 11,359 striking air-traffic controllers in 1981.
On November 01 2025 04:47 Jeremy Reimer wrote: It is quite possible that the remaining people just haven't updated their LinkedIn yet, even though they no longer receive a paycheck.
I feel badly for the (former) Frost Giant employees. It's a really tough time to be in the games industry right now, with all the big companies continuing to lay off thousands of people every few months (and in the case of Amazon, tens of thousands).
pay cheque. I don't feel badly for any one in the industry. in 2010 US spending on games was ~$10B. Now, it is $58B. If these super talented delicate geniuses can't find a way to navigate those waters that's on them.
The industry I service has gone from $425B to $1000B during that same time span. The only way people in this growing industry don't have a job is if they don't want a job.
More spending doesn't necessarily mean game devs have it better now. That spending could go elsewhere, e.g. into advertisement and the pockets of CEOs. I don't think game devs get a good salary on average compared to other IT jobs requiring similar skills/qualification.
if you work in an industry where revenue and profits are skyrocketing by 4.5X and that industry lays people off constantly and offers zero stability while paying you half of what you are worth some place else... that's on you. that is your calculated, adult decision. IMO, its a bad decision. Hey, if someone wants to play martyr ... they can have fun.
in the industry I service the pay is skyrocketing right along with the profits and revenue. furthermore, it is 100X more stable. and that is how it should be. Things should be stable and improving whenever profits and revenue are skyrocketing. If they are not, they're lying when they say that can't pay you nor offer stable work. you want to work for frauds and liars? have fun.
Gaming is still very much an industry of passion. So many are willing to accept worse conditions than what they would get at traditional tech companies.
On November 02 2025 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Nothing from Stormgate Central since August 5. Nothing from Stormgate Nexus since August 5 as well. I guess August 5 was the game's unannounced, unofficial last day of active support. Ironically, August 5 was the day US President Ronald Reagan fired 11,359 striking air-traffic controllers in 1981.
On November 01 2025 04:47 Jeremy Reimer wrote: It is quite possible that the remaining people just haven't updated their LinkedIn yet, even though they no longer receive a paycheck.
I feel badly for the (former) Frost Giant employees. It's a really tough time to be in the games industry right now, with all the big companies continuing to lay off thousands of people every few months (and in the case of Amazon, tens of thousands).
pay cheque. I don't feel badly for any one in the industry. in 2010 US spending on games was ~$10B. Now, it is $58B. If these super talented delicate geniuses can't find a way to navigate those waters that's on them.
The industry I service has gone from $425B to $1000B during that same time span. The only way people in this growing industry don't have a job is if they don't want a job.
More spending doesn't necessarily mean game devs have it better now. That spending could go elsewhere, e.g. into advertisement and the pockets of CEOs. I don't think game devs get a good salary on average compared to other IT jobs requiring similar skills/qualification.
if you work in an industry where revenue and profits are skyrocketing by 4.5X and that industry lays people off constantly and offers zero stability while paying you half of what you are worth some place else... that's on you. that is your calculated, adult decision. IMO, its a bad decision. Hey, if someone wants to play martyr ... they can have fun.
in the industry I service the pay is skyrocketing right along with the profits and revenue. furthermore, it is 100X more stable. and that is how it should be. Things should be stable and improving whenever profits and revenue are skyrocketing. If they are not, they're lying when they say that can't pay you nor offer stable work. you want to work for frauds and liars? have fun.
Do you compete with people that do it for free for 3-4 years to get a product out because they enjoy it? That is the lower end of the gaming market. That means it is a horrible industry to work in for most people, you are competing with free.
Not trying to argue gaming is an easy market, it definitely isn't, but "compete with people that do it for free for 3-4 years to get a product out because they enjoy it" happens in all software, not just in games. Almost every idea for an app/service you can come up with, someone is already shipping a free version of it. Programming can be really fun. For many people way more fun than playing video games. It makes it very hard break into the market and monetize all kinds of software, not only games.
No one is doing free versions of bespoke software used inside finance, healthcare, and other boring industries. Maintaining a piece of that software was my first job, and many, maybe most, developers spend their careers doing that. Still pays great and usually isn't a grind, but there's no glory in it at all. Everybody wants to rule the world, and only slightly fewer want to make a hit video game. Game devs complaining about their working conditions (or lack thereof) are, to me, like romance novelists, hip hop artists, or streamers complaining about theirs. Find something more productive to do.
I skimmed the recent post-Morten. Hate to bump this thread but sometimes I gotta fart I'm sorry. Lots of fiber in my diet. I gurgle and burgle and suddenly shit a mountain.
It's very fascinating when someone intentionally makes themselves look bad. I've done it plenty in the past. There's a sense of nuking yourself that is oddly satisfying, albeit retarded. The post-Mortens seem very spiteful, as if Tim feels wronged by the community who didn't accept his game despite the hard work and post-EA mulligan. But nowhere along the line has he or anyone else from his studio acknowledged, even subtly, that an actual fun game dripping with passion rightfully gets the clicks and the likes despite market conditions, funding, adversity, friction, and so on. Tim continuing to belabor all the points which do not matter is a self-nuke. It is well understood why Stormgate failed where other games have succeeded. People aren't stupid, even if it's popular to treat them as such. Talking to a brick wall while everyone stands behind you wondering what the fuck you're doing, dishing hollow instead of being honest and direct, is a bit of a slap in the face and yet another self-own. As an experienced self-owner, I guess it takes one to know one. Not that it matters, but I would have preferred a few humble lines that speak to an unfortunate defeat followed by a graceful bowing out. Maybe hit the reddit (on your main account lol) and talk to people directly who have expressed great interest in the game, while ignoring the haters, and go deeper into what the team wanted to build in the future—anything to support the notion that you actually did care a lot about the game itself, not just this very weird ego journey of recreating Blizzard and harnessing the unconditional support of the RTS community for financial gain.
The golden age of games, for me, was the 90s. We then entered a long dip and I think we are entering a second golden age—or perhaps a silver age. I'm not sure if we can match the feels we got with Ocarina of Time or Halo 1 or Warcraft 3, but the intentions of the smaller teams feel pure again, which is at the very least refreshing, and will continue to lead to good things I think. The career game dev making 250k because he's been around a long time seems to be coming to an end. While some of these people have exceptional talent and have earned their place, there are many more who have aged out of the industry and it's noticeable. The way I see it—and I think the proof is in the pudding—art is not an equation to balance that then spits out coins from a slot machine. It's more like laying golden (or foul) eggs that are 10 times the size of the hole they have to pass through. It's something that is felt inside, at times very painfully. You either ''hear the music'' a la Oppenheimer or you do not. And I'm very glad that many of these middle-aged corporate ladder climbing producers cannot hear the music while the passionate ramen-eaters sometimes can.
I guess guys like Beomulf, the Stormgate Nexus people and the Stormgate Central people have abandoned the sinking ship.
On November 06 2025 02:42 RogerChillingworth wrote: The post-Mortens seem very spiteful, as if Tim feels wronged by the community who didn't accept his game despite the hard work and post-EA mulligan. But nowhere along the line has he or anyone else from his studio acknowledged, even subtly, that an actual fun game dripping with passion rightfully gets the clicks and the likes despite market conditions, funding, adversity, friction, and so on. Tim continuing to belabor all the points which do not matter .
The golden age of games, for me, was the 90s. We then entered a long dip and I think we are entering a second golden age—or perhaps a silver age. I'm not sure if we can match the feels we got with Ocarina of Time or Halo 1 or .
I wonder if Tim was expecting loyalty from community pillars like Stormgate Nexus , Stormgate Central, etc and is upset he did not get that. As far as a 'golden age' for video gaming. I think gaming is far better in Arcade and PC Bang settings. So prolly 1982 and 1983 were the peak in NA for arcades. PC Bangs were a blast in Canada from 2000 to 2005 when broadband was not universally available and smart PC Bang owners could give everyone 8 ping.
Wins and losses are so much more fun face to face. We usually brought our own equipment so we could freely smash it when we got mad. It was EPIC.
Jerry Seinfeld explains very nicely why playing video games outside is way more fun...
On November 04 2025 03:17 crablogic wrote: No one is doing free versions of bespoke software used inside finance, healthcare, and other boring industries. Maintaining a piece of that software was my first job, and many, maybe most, developers spend their careers doing that. Still pays great and usually isn't a grind, but there's no glory in it at all. Everybody wants to rule the world, and only slightly fewer want to make a hit video game. Game devs complaining about their working conditions (or lack thereof) are, to me, like romance novelists, hip hop artists, or streamers complaining about theirs. Find something more productive to do.
Good points. Generally overall, I think you are correct. Sry to nitpick here: there can be some glory in developing laboratory tech that lowers response times.
On November 06 2025 04:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I guess guys like Beomulf, the Stormgate Nexus people and the Stormgate Central people have abandoned the sinking ship.
Everyone has abandoned the sinking ship. Tim Morten, everyone. I think that Stormgate Archives guy is the last one left, and he's getting view counts from 1-5 people on Twitch, including him.
The game itself is reaching lows of single-digit players now:
It's been three months since Tim Morten said he was going to update everyone "in the coming weeks" about his search for a "partner" to save Frost Giant.
On November 06 2025 02:42 RogerChillingworth wrote: I skimmed the recent post-Morten. Hate to bump this thread but sometimes I gotta fart I'm sorry. Lots of fiber in my diet. I gurgle and burgle and suddenly shit a mountain.
It's very fascinating when someone intentionally makes themselves look bad. I've done it plenty in the past. There's a sense of nuking yourself that is oddly satisfying, albeit retarded. The post-Mortens seem very spiteful, as if Tim feels wronged by the community who didn't accept his game despite the hard work and post-EA mulligan. But nowhere along the line has he or anyone else from his studio acknowledged, even subtly, that an actual fun game dripping with passion rightfully gets the clicks and the likes despite market conditions, funding, adversity, friction, and so on. Tim continuing to belabor all the points which do not matter is a self-nuke. It is well understood why Stormgate failed where other games have succeeded. People aren't stupid, even if it's popular to treat them as such. Talking to a brick wall while everyone stands behind you wondering what the fuck you're doing, dishing hollow instead of being honest and direct, is a bit of a slap in the face and yet another self-own. As an experienced self-owner, I guess it takes one to know one.
The company reflects its leadership, and Tim's leadership, his voidlegacy if you will, was that he would not accept criticism about anything to do with his company or his game. Criticism of the art: not allowed. Criticism of the poor communication: not allowed. Criticism of stealth-editing the rewards page on Kickstarter when called out on it, or employees (including and probably directed by him) posting fake positive Steam reviews under fake names and personas: not only not allowed, but to this day he stands by his review and thinks he did nothing wrong.
If it was just a smol indie company trying to make a new RTS game and failing, nobody would care that much. They might be a bit disappointed, but that's it.
But Tim's attitude not only doomed his own company but doomed himself, personally. He can never admit the truth. He's built a little prison around himself that he can never escape from.
EDIT: I know I keep saying that I'm going to take a break from talking about Stormgate, but I just can't help myself. It's too fascinating a story, even if it is kind of a sad one.
To me the interesting bit currently is that they're still selling the campaign on Steam. Either it has to work on its own or they need to keep the server running in the foreseeable future.
Neither is probably a big deal, but I could see things getting messy when you're driving down most of the company.
On November 06 2025 06:52 Bacillus wrote: To me the interesting bit currently is that they're still selling the campaign on Steam. Either it has to work on its own or they need to keep the server running in the foreseeable future.
Neither is probably a big deal, but I could see things getting messy when you're driving down most of the company.
It's the latter: the game must always contact a server, even for the single player campaign, and even before the "1.0" launch in the final Reddit AMA, Tim Morten admitted that it would be a lot of work to change this.
The other problem is that the server is actually multiple levels of third-party services: the code that does everything (establishing connections, matchmaking, user logins, leaderboards, etc) is a service called pragma.gg. The actual servers are provisioned using Hathora, which spins them up and down using AWS instances. All told this cost several thousand dollars per month when there were more players, although with the current double-digit player base they might be able to get away with only a couple of hundred per month. Someone actually has to keep paying this, though. I can see Tim doing it out of pocket for at least a few more years.
Some minor news: Tim Campbell, the other Tim who was the head game director at Frost Giant, has been officially hired as an advisor by the team making Defcon: Zero, an upcoming indie C&C-like RTS.
In the announcement, the post mentions that Tim C worked on Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2 and Emperor: Battle for Dune, but they don't mention Stormgate.
He is moving on from the spiritual successor to Starcraft to the spiritual successor to C&C. Awesome! ! !
once Tim C adds the snowflake engine and integrates it with the upcoming DirectY13 Windows graphics rendering engine i have no doubt Defcon: Zero will be great. Now, there are some big server costs so Tim C can head up the new KickStarter campaign to pay for those server costs.
Screw Defcon 2 or even Defcon 1... we've got Defcon Zero incoming! ! !
There is nothing I love more than a 1983 computer that can fill an entire room!
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/q7uw9Xh.png)
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