EPThe did this big long super cheerful 1 hour interview and then he just disappeared.
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 282
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16882 Posts
he did this big long super cheerful 1 hour interview and then he just disappeared. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25941 Posts
On October 26 2025 03:54 Hildegard wrote: The core problem with RTS is this. There are the games that are supposedly more fun to play with lower time to kill and lower speed and fewer options for cheeses. However, that makes the games in multiplayer a bit boring because even more than in SC2 the better player wins. In Stormgate better kiting won pretty much all the mirror games. Cheeses, devastating PSI storms or a Baneling rush are exciting because they are a gamble that still involves skill and execution, and it's way more fun to watch. There is a market for more single player oriented RTS that are played for a bit but not long-term and certainly not as e-sports. There have been studies that suggest what makes SC2 so exciting to watch is that the game can end at any time. Even drawn out macro games can end within seconds if one player makes a mistake. And what players hate is what actually makes the game exciting and fun to watch. The Tims didn't get that. They had no taste, as was seen in the bland design, the bland races, the boring story and characters and the low time to kill, endless kitings, too few cheeses and so on. From the first trailer (you can go back and search my comments about how this game is doomed, while pretty much everyone here was still hyped). They had no artistic vision and I doubt they were true Starcraft fans or watched something like SC:BW Pro League back in the day. A successor to SC:BW and SC:2 needs to be fast, deadly, full of different openers, that can be recognized but also faked at an economic or technological price. There need to be seemingly bad strategies that can work under very specific circumstances and balance does not mean that every race is at the same strength during the whole time, but rather an ebb and flow between needing to get something done or holding the line until a certain moment when the roles reverse, based on strategy, tactics, race, map, player style and skill. Ok, enough for now. I gotta ageee with much here. You want stability to a point, but not predictability. Which, in defence to Frost Giant is very difficult to do. Many fail in either direction. Too predictable, you end up with an early game that’s just going through the motions. Too unpredictable, and it ends up being frustrating, let’s say your opponent has multiple cheese options you can’t scout reliably, so you’re almost rolling the dice. Purely in the abstract, greed should be punishable by aggression, and outright cheese should be countered by going for a middle of the road safe build. So yeah agreed there. And you also ideally want lots of strategic options. It’s incredibly hard to do all of that, but I think that’s ultimately what people want in the genre. I think perhaps modern SC2 pushes a bit too far into neutering non-cheese aggression in favour of macro openers, and especially in early iterations, Stormgate went too far in frustrating volatility with the Celestials On October 26 2025 05:01 Miragee wrote: Calling SC2 exciting to watch is a hot take. I’d say it isn’t always, but it has its moments! And if it ain’t basically no RTS outside of BW is. I prefer WC3 as a game to play, and do enjoy watching it too, but in general I don’t think it’s quite as exciting as SC2 purely as a spectator | ||
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Hildegard
Germany316 Posts
On October 26 2025 06:08 WombaT wrote: I gotta ageee with much here. You want stability to a point, but not predictability. Which, in defence to Frost Giant is very difficult to do. Many fail in either direction. Too predictable, you end up with an early game that’s just going through the motions. Too unpredictable, and it ends up being frustrating, let’s say your opponent has multiple cheese options you can’t scout reliably, so you’re almost rolling the dice. Purely in the abstract, greed should be punishable by aggression, and outright cheese should be countered by going for a middle of the road safe build. So yeah agreed there. And you also ideally want lots of strategic options. It’s incredibly hard to do all of that, but I think that’s ultimately what people want in the genre. I think perhaps modern SC2 pushes a bit too far into neutering non-cheese aggression in favour of macro openers, and especially in early iterations, Stormgate went too far in frustrating volatility with the Celestials I’d say it isn’t always, but it has its moments! And if it ain’t basically no RTS outside of BW is. I prefer WC3 as a game to play, and do enjoy watching it too, but in general I don’t think it’s quite as exciting as SC2 purely as a spectator I think the biggest problem is the huge skill difference. One idea I had for a SC3 was to reduce the mechanical part in a different game mode, keep the speed, keep the deadliness, but use voice commands and some lua/macro language that allows for specific, but not catch-all solutions. Another fun thing would be to make a kind of game in which you play a pro can train him RPG style and improve skills, add traits and call out general decisions like expand here, move army there. get this tech, but reduce the micromanagement. That could open the games up for a broader public and still interest people to watch pros play the "real" game. | ||
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Jeremy Reimer
Canada1034 Posts
On October 26 2025 05:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: does anyone know what ever became of Tim Campbell? This is the last I've seen of him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW0qql8y5aM he did this big long super cheerful 1 hour interview and then he just disappeared. Mostly he reposts game developer job opportunities on LinkedIn. I think, unlike the other Tim, he's realized the hopelessness of the situation, and he's just trying to help his former employees find new jobs. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6248 Posts
On October 26 2025 05:01 Miragee wrote: Calling SC2 exciting to watch is a hot take. No it's not. Bw isn't significantly better than Sc2. | ||
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Creager
Germany1917 Posts
On October 26 2025 05:01 Miragee wrote: Calling SC2 exciting to watch is a hot take. Depends on which version of the game you refer to. | ||
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Miragee
8581 Posts
On October 27 2025 00:25 Creager wrote: Depends on which version of the game you refer to. Idk man. I know my post was mostly a rage bait as this is obviously up to personal taste. For me though, SC2 was only exciting to watch when it was still very fresh and I think that's because it was new and I was still invested. I stopped playing quite early for a variety of reasons and kept watching for a couple more years I think. I definitely stopped watching regularly before HotS dropped. Since then I only watched like one series every 1-2 years, mostly some major finals, and it has been mind-numbingly boring every single time, even when casters and comments seemed extremely excited. I just don't think the core game and map design lead to anything I find exciting, regardless of game version. Although I don't doubt you could find me a series I find exciting, it would still be a rare anomaly. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17399 Posts
On October 26 2025 06:45 Hildegard wrote: I think the biggest problem is the huge skill difference. One idea I had for a SC3 was to reduce the mechanical part in a different game mode, keep the speed, keep the deadliness, but use voice commands and some lua/macro language that allows for specific, but not catch-all solutions. Another fun thing would be to make a kind of game in which you play a pro can train him RPG style and improve skills, add traits and call out general decisions like expand here, move army there. get this tech, but reduce the micromanagement. That could open the games up for a broader public and still interest people to watch pros play the "real" game. To make it deadly but still mechanically demanding you can simply get rid of the boring and repetitive steps that are APM intensive but don't have immediate impact. This would allow players to focus on the battle more, resulting in more APM being used microing their units instead of bland macro. Example in SC2: You still need to build your base, depots, barracks, factories etc.but you don't have to click them to build units. Instead all ground units can be under like F1 key or something where you can queue up 20 marines or something and the game will automatically spread the load between barracks. Very simple to do, very easy to pick up. You basically decouple units production panels from the buildings themselves so you no longer need to hotkey your buildings or select them to begin production. You still benefit from having more buildings and you still need to make good decisions when it comes to their placement and stuff but you don't have to interact with them so much. Just one simple idea. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5449 Posts
On October 27 2025 03:07 Manit0u wrote: To make it deadly but still mechanically demanding you can simply get rid of the boring and repetitive steps that are APM intensive but don't have immediate impact. This would allow players to focus on the battle more, resulting in more APM being used microing their units instead of bland macro. Example in SC2: You still need to build your base, depots, barracks, factories etc.but you don't have to click them to build units. Instead all ground units can be under like F1 key or something where you can queue up 20 marines or something and the game will automatically spread the load between barracks. Very simple to do, very easy to pick up. You basically decouple units production panels from the buildings themselves so you no longer need to hotkey your buildings or select them to begin production. You still benefit from having more buildings and you still need to make good decisions when it comes to their placement and stuff but you don't have to interact with them so much. Just one simple idea. Just like in Stormgate, right? That's how it works there. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16882 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17399 Posts
On October 27 2025 04:04 SoleSteeler wrote: Just like in Stormgate, right? That's how it works there. I have no idea how Stormgate works, I was thinking more like C&C/Red Alert series. If so it's one thing they did right  Doesn't matter if they botched everything else. | ||
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gerdgfdfga
3 Posts
On October 27 2025 01:57 Miragee wrote: Idk man. I know my post was mostly a rage bait as this is obviously up to personal taste. For me though, SC2 was only exciting to watch when it was still very fresh and I think that's because it was new and I was still invested. I stopped playing quite early for a variety of reasons and kept watching for a couple more years I think. I definitely stopped watching regularly before HotS dropped. Since then I only watched like one series every 1-2 years, mostly some major finals, and it has been mind-numbingly boring every single time, even when casters and comments seemed extremely excited. I just don't think the core game and map design lead to anything I find exciting, regardless of game version. Although I don't doubt you could find me a series I find exciting, it would still be a rare anomaly. "Dont worry, i just drop random piece of shit posts" | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6987 Posts
On October 27 2025 01:57 Miragee wrote: Idk man. I know my post was mostly a rage bait as this is obviously up to personal taste. For me though, SC2 was only exciting to watch when it was still very fresh and I think that's because it was new and I was still invested. I stopped playing quite early for a variety of reasons and kept watching for a couple more years I think. I definitely stopped watching regularly before HotS dropped. Since then I only watched like one series every 1-2 years, mostly some major finals, and it has been mind-numbingly boring every single time, even when casters and comments seemed extremely excited. I just don't think the core game and map design lead to anything I find exciting, regardless of game version. Although I don't doubt you could find me a series I find exciting, it would still be a rare anomaly. That is probably because you are not emotionally invested. For me it's the same with BW: Every time I try to watch a game I end up skipping through. Add to that personal taste and excitement differs a lot even between fans of the same genre. It's not a this is objectively superior to that or the other way around. | ||
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Miragee
8581 Posts
On October 27 2025 19:29 Harris1st wrote: That is probably because you are not emotionally invested. For me it's the same with BW: Every time I try to watch a game I end up skipping through. Add to that personal taste and excitement differs a lot even between fans of the same genre. It's not a this is objectively superior to that or the other way around. Idk if it's emotional investment. Maybe it plays some role but initially my interest in SC2 dwindled when I was still emotionally invested. I'm also not as emotionally invested in BW anymore but to me it's much more interesting to watch, still (not every game of course). I think personal taste, which can obviously also shift over time, is the driving force here. | ||
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Gargonus
5 Posts
This time mods have accepted it ! Also Spartak pretends that last week it was deleted because of "repost". Maybe as you suspected, Jeremy. However that doesn't explain why both posts were removed. I find this very weird, lol. I'm trying to post a screen of the conversation but it doesn't work. Anyway, there goes our last "official" source of news. This is really pathetic. No official news AT ALL, on the website, on the Steam page... Any unsuspecting Steam user that only sees the steam page (and ignores the reviews, lol) will not know this, and bam, will get almost scammed. ![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/XVEviqy) | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21936 Posts
It has nothing to do with Stormgate or Frostgiant. Its just generic "ai exists now and will change some stuff, maybe." www.linkedin.com God knows why this man is still posting this stuff | ||
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