EPTOn April 16 2024 02:12 InfCereal wrote:
I ain't reading all that
Happy for you though
Or sorry for your loss
I ain't reading all that
Happy for you though
Or sorry for your loss
If that was a sonnet you have to work on your meter
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 111
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Acrofales
Spain18494 Posts
If that was a sonnet you have to work on your meter | ||
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Spirral
89 Posts
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pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
After about 5 minutes of in game I was bored; there is no substance and no soul to this game, the map seems like Warcraft, the units or game seems like ripped off version of sc2, and there are some hints of broodwar in it as well. A dash of lol too. Just feels like someone took all these games and mixed them together. It would have been fun to play in 2012 maybe. Of course the graphical level is awesome and the mechanics perfect. There where some bugs for me loading the game and setting it up though, and the main menu was very unresponsive considering 2024. Also, I do not understand the idea here: StarCraft takes place in the future away from earth, and you can feel it. Warcraft takes place in fantasy land and I can taste it. Diablo takes place in hell and you can sense it. Where is stormgate supposed to be in all of this? Those trees everywhere are like being in the Middle Ages, but this is nothing like aoe2, so I’ m not sure. The soundtrack was fun and the resources also cool. This is not the future of RTS. Not for me anyway. When the full game comes out I will download it again and play it; the campaign felt promising, would have liked to play at least one mission to see how that felt | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5472 Posts
On April 16 2024 05:18 pebble444 wrote: Also, I do not understand the idea here: StarCraft takes place in the future away from earth, and you can feel it. Warcraft takes place in fantasy land and I can taste it. Diablo takes place in hell and you can sense it. Where is stormgate supposed to be in all of this? Those trees everywhere are like being in the Middle Ages, but this is nothing like aoe2, so I’ m not sure. The soundtrack was fun and the resources also cool. They do address this in their recent blog, seen here: https://playstormgate.com/news/stormgate-developer-update-april-12-2024 If you scroll down to New Environment Biomes (or “Tilesets”) I guess they are just using a generic forest right now for their maps, and have plans for actual lore-specific styles that should make it stand out more. We shall see if they pull it off. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2853 Posts
On April 16 2024 04:04 Acrofales wrote: It was either one of the Settlers or one of the Colonizations that had supply lines. It wasn't very fun, but was an interesting mechanic for a city builder. I don't think an RTS with supply lines would be remotely fun, but I hope someone can prove me wrong! I agree that it sounds like an ill fit - in RTS the more exposed your economy is the more frustrating (in my experience) it is to play. Maps in the starcrafts are expressly designed to make your mineral lines as defensible as possible, and the Westwood RTS games had heaps of defensive layers for their wandering harvesters. Supply lines sound cool for a srategy part of a strategy game, but in RTS as we know it I can't help but see them as probable major vulnerabilites. There's a reason that even the earliest RTS use an invisible bank that's accessible everywhere and don't require workers to literally bring trees to the place where the buildings get built. Against The Storm is a neat little strategy game that plays (or played? Mechanics may have been updated since) with supply lines in an interesting way, where lumber actually does need to physically go from the woods to a warehouse to a lumbermill etc. Sounds frustrating for an RTS but does work in that game! | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2599 Posts
I think the reason that RTS uses an invisible universal bank is just that there's no way (that anyone has ever come up with) that shuffling your resources from building to building would be a fun way to spend your time. I can imagine scenarios for something like a supply line that I think could be fun. For example, let's say you can create a building that works kind of like a Trading Post from AoE3. You trigger its ability and select a target unit, and a little dude with a magic potion walks out. If he survives to reach his target, the potion applies a temporary damage bonus to every unit within some splash range. The dude is not under your control, so you can't spawn him and take him with you on a raid - to use him on an attack, you have to time it out so that he arrives when you're ready to engage. Now you have a (maybe fun?) minigame where you're trying to hit a combo of having your army in position and a buff hit at the same time, while trying to prevent your opponent from pulling off the same combo. I think if you played around with ideas like this, you could find some fun moments that aren't already available in existing RTS games. I'm not totally sure what a fun supply line looks like in the RTS context, but I've been thinking about it for years, and it seems to me that it's a rich space for finding novel gameplay that hasn't really been explored. I think the trick is finding an angle on it that feels like a fun move to pull off and not like a grinding logistical chore, but I do think there could be something there. I realize this has strayed somewhat from the core mission of this thread, but thanks to those of you who've taken the time to engage with my thought! Getting back to the more general theme of the role macro should play in an RTS, I very much agree with those who think it's a mistake to try to dumb down macro. Executing something difficult with the reward of showing up at battle time with a bigger army than your opponent is hugely fun, and it's one of the things I enjoy the most about BW and SC2. I think that instead of simplifying macro and focusing on micro, developers need to understand that micro and macro are the two main minigames our of which an RTS is composed, and that the trick should be finding ways to make the macro minigame actually fun in its own right. | ||
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teapot_
39 Posts
On the topic of the renewed creep camps, I think it's the right direction, but I don't see it useful yet. Resource towers are just bases in a different form. | ||
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teapot_
39 Posts
To finish/edit the resource tower sentence: mostly the purpose of resource towers is unclear, it clashes with regular mining bases. But for the game itself my main worry is the slow iteration time (at least with community builds). Their new update shows randomized map pool (wow), a new map (wow), new sounds (wow), one new unit (wow). The creep camp rework is the only slightly substantial thing. I hope they are hiding a lot behind the curtains. (Yeah I know there is a third race, but let's see it first). For all their talk about avoiding throw away work, they've done a whole lot of pointless fine tuning of completely unfinished races. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey464 Posts
Yeah I know there is a third race But you are still going to ignore it (ie. the biggest content they are adding to the game) when talking about how fast the progress is? 😄 | ||
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teapot_
39 Posts
On April 16 2024 15:10 _Spartak_ wrote: But you are still going to ignore it (ie. the biggest content they are adding to the game) when talking about how fast the progress is? 😄 Can we consider a 1 week ban for this person too? | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7459 Posts
It seems making a RTS right now is a very tricky business and other developers have the same problems FG has | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7459 Posts
On April 16 2024 15:10 _Spartak_ wrote: But you are still going to ignore it (ie. the biggest content they are adding to the game) when talking about how fast the progress is? 😄 His point is they haven't shown us anything of the 3rd race. No units, no style not even pictures. With the current track record FG has, I think it's fair to assume there won't be a 3rd race at EA launch. One new unit and one new map since the last update is just not enough progress to think we get a decent product at EA launch which is about 4 months away. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 16 2024 16:29 Harris1st wrote: It seems making a RTS right now is a very tricky business and other developers have the same problems FG has Making an RTS seems to be lot harder than 90% of community believes. You can't pull a random engine off the shelf and make it work, or make one with the budget of Stardew Valley and expect it to hold up | ||
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KingzTig
155 Posts
On April 16 2024 16:29 Harris1st wrote: I just read Tempest Rising, the inofficial sequel to Command & Conger, should have been released late 2023. Then the developers said they needed more time and have been silent until now. In a new update they said they will release some time this year but only with two of the three planned fractions and will add the third fraction somewhere down the line. It seems making a RTS right now is a very tricky business and other developers have the same problems FG has Tempest rising has the potential to make it big, haven't heard much negative about it. (Other than slow development) There's a few small indie RTS like godsworn and liquidation. All comes down to the scope. But yeah stormgate is looking more of a beta than EA, last beta felt like a technical alpha (doesn't even look that much ahead of gate of pyre) | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5472 Posts
On April 16 2024 17:45 Harris1st wrote: His point is they haven't shown us anything of the 3rd race. No units, no style not even pictures. With the current track record FG has, I think it's fair to assume there won't be a 3rd race at EA launch. One new unit and one new map since the last update is just not enough progress to think we get a decent product at EA launch which is about 4 months away. Third race is confirmed for the upcoming April 30th build. It will (I think) be under NDA at first so information on it won't be public right away. I think it's likely it'll get leaked though? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 16 2024 18:08 Fango wrote: Making an RTS seems to be lot harder than 90% of community believes. You can't pull a random engine off the shelf and make it work, or make one with the budget of Stardew Valley and expect it to hold up Aye it’s very tricky because you both need a lot of varied and interesting units and mechanics, and you can’t have the balance go such a way that a few strategies dominate. And the more stuff you add the higher chance something slips through in terms of balance/meta dominance. Even more so an RTS that’s focused around multiplayer. You can enforce all kinds of fun variety with mission design and fudging the AI a bit with a single player RTS, in a multiplayer one it’s a race to find the optimal. There’s plenty of RTS games I’ve played where I’ve loved the campaigns, got my money’s worth but I don’t think would hold up at all as a PvP game because there’s some very obvious optimal way to play. RTS is IMO maybe one of the hardest genres to knock it out of the park in, there’s a lot of balancing acts to be done. You want variety but you don’t want there to be too much shit in the game that it becomes an unpredictable clusterfuck. Skill floor versus skill ceiling, familiarity versus novelty and a whole bunch of other tradeoffs other genres are less hamstrung by. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 16 2024 19:39 SoleSteeler wrote: Third race is confirmed for the upcoming April 30th build. It will (I think) be under NDA at first so information on it won't be public right away. I think it's likely it'll get leaked though? Well there’s paid beta access now right? I can’t see that being under the same kind of NDA as previous builds. And if there is there’s still basically a 0% chance of that not leaking I’d say! | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey464 Posts
On April 16 2024 17:45 Harris1st wrote: As SoleSteeler said, an early version of the 3rd faction will be playable by beta testers at the end of this month. He was listing stuff that is added for the next build to make the point that progress is slow but leaving out the biggest piece of content (among some other things mentioned in the video) and when you do that, of course progress will seem slower than it is.His point is they haven't shown us anything of the 3rd race. No units, no style not even pictures. With the current track record FG has, I think it's fair to assume there won't be a 3rd race at EA launch. One new unit and one new map since the last update is just not enough progress to think we get a decent product at EA launch which is about 4 months away. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7459 Posts
On April 16 2024 20:29 _Spartak_ wrote: As SoleSteeler said, an early version of the 3rd faction will be playable by beta testers at the end of this month. He was listing stuff that is added for the next build to make the point that progress is slow but leaving out the biggest piece of content (among some other things mentioned in the video) and when you do that, of course progress will seem slower than it is. Was this in the video? The dev update says nothing about that. I believe it when I see it EDIT: Not beeing negative nancy here. Just a healthy dose of scepticism | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey464 Posts
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