[H] DotA items - Page 17

paper

13196 Posts

August 10 2007 09:14 GMT

#321

*verifies for heen* ;D

once you have a dependable team behind you, all those heroes you mentioned totally go to shit

and i can't stress having TPs enough
three man gank? wait till they use their stuns (don't forget mini-stuns), then TP out. sure, you'll be nearly perma-diabled sometimes and die, but that's probably bad decision making or shitty map awareness on your part.

it's SO cheap and you can pull off TPs in the middle of huge battles. just click the TP and click on a general location near your fountain ;p

{ToT}Strafe

Thailand7026 Posts

August 10 2007 10:46 GMT

#322

On August 10 2007 15:45 lololol wrote:
All these heroes you listed are good 1v1 and can't contribute much to a team battle, so you should stick together with your teammates, or have a hero capable of handling them 1v1. Of course, if your teammates feed them, then it's pretty much over, I've had games with NS, where I could just charge against 3-4 enemy heroes, kill the easiest target and run away without dying

Show nested quote +

I'm mostly curious how did they didn't lose/disconnect/whatever when you had 50 kills

I don't play public games. I only play dota-league and then also VIP. Which basically means you need to have over 1200 points, you start with 1000 and get 5 points for every win. So people with over 1200 points at least can play a little bit of dota and are no RPFS. And Still I go 17-0 etc. If I play publics I will never ever die.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

August 10 2007 19:46 GMT

#323

Why don't you play on competitive teams strafe? (I am not sure of your current DotA situation outside of dota-league).

{ToT}Strafe

Thailand7026 Posts

August 11 2007 13:08 GMT

#324

Hmmm, because I don';t have time to practise. I play 1 or 2 games a day max. And then not even every day either. This 150 game record dates from all the way back to September.

Heen

Korea (South)2178 Posts

August 11 2007 14:34 GMT

#325

Dear Pacifist,

Alright I played some sniper at your request (pretty much never pick sniper, only play on -random ^^

Since you wanted to learn how to play sniper I will basically give you an analysis of what sniper should do and how he should be played.

First of all, if it weren't for the +range skill, he would suck ass. His scattershot sucks and headshot is decent. Assassinate is good early game but late game it's just a long range finisher. So that means a shitty sniper is one of the worst things to have on your team since he is very item reliant. For example, a viper who didn't get off to a good start can still contribute with his massive slow but sniper only has ministun and assassinate to help.

You need to be good at last hitting. This build may not be the most suitable for you if you aren't comfortable but for me it works extremely well. You can see for yourself that I last hit very diligently (around 100 denies by 30 min mark and twice the kills).

Sniper needs to be built around DPS. More to the point, here's my item build:

starting item: chicken + boots of agi + 2 tangos

I like to have a habit of having of a chicken so I can stay in lane longer. It's usually worth it considering the circlet you would buy instead wouldn't help as much.

Best lane: mid

1) easy to tower hug with long range
2) best lane to harass

You will want observer wards to place on the other side's ramp for 2 reasons:

1) protection from ganks
2) vision for last hitting/harass/assassinate

2 x wraith band or bracer, 1 of each is fine too, they help with early last hitting (sniper has shitty dmg altho godlike animation which I'm sure you know of). I get 2 because it fits nicely into my item slot with my other items.

Lothars --> MKB --> BoT --> SnY --> Butterfly --> [variable]

Lothars is pretty standard on sniper since he is very fragile and slow. He needs to farm but he can't do so without having an escape mechanism wherever he goes. Blink dagger does the same thing but it's difficult to use and has a lower survival rate. Plus the agi/dmg gain is nice.

Whenever you're being ganked: windwalk into trees/around corner and tp out (always have a tp before BoT, I cannot stress this enough).

MKB is your core DPS item. Some people say because the mini-bash doesn't stack with the passive it's stupid but that's a retarded argument. First of all they both proc only 10% of the time and even if they do you don't lose much dmg. Multiple ministun does make a difference. Experience > theorycrafting newbs.

After you farm your MKB, farming should be fast and easy. And you're actually a threat now. So you need to BoT for even better farming and mobility.

Next is SnY. SnY is perhaps the most hated item in DotA. 'It gives a little bit of everything.' But no on sniper it's not. It's pretty standard on him. Let's see:

useful attributes to sniper?
+str? check
+agi? check
+ms? check
+as? check
+maim? check

A good sniper positions himself well and that means a lot of moving around. The ms gain from this build will be a huge asset. And at this point your agi gain should be significant enough to proc maim often enough. Sny > Skadi on sniper. Skadi is a useless piece of shit item that has the worst DPS/gold for such a ridiculously expensive item. (Note I only get skadi in game 3 since terrorblade dropped).

Finally Butterfly. Nuff said. Good for everything.

So you now have 5 'real' items. The last one usually changes depending on game. You should be a farming machine at this point so get whatever you think is most necessary. Usually heart vs spell-based lineup and buriza vs combat-based lineup.

Sniper 2
Sniper 3
Sniper 4

Yours truly,
Heen

{ToT}Strafe

Thailand7026 Posts

August 11 2007 16:43 GMT

#326

I shouldn't bash your post at all, since it's well written and a lot of effort into it and since I never put any effort into my posts I feel I have no right to say anything

But I'm an asshole so I'm going to do it anyway.

Some points were correct. Sniper should be in the middle. It's essential that you can last hit or sniper is completely worthless. A chicken helps a lot to stay in the lane longer, because it can provide new items and consumables which you will need vs a good opponent. Don't buy tangos, buy a healing pot instead. Sniper should be build around attack speed. And yo shouldn't get scatter shot. Having a TP at all times is very important.

Things I disagree with, getting lothars, getting S&Y, getting wraith band, your starting items and your ending items.

I start with chicken+circlet+healing pot. I will last hit the shit out of any hero unless I get nuked to death, which will make it a bit harder, but still able to last hit. I first max out range and then the headshot. Range>head shot. Because you can run back and forth last hitting creeps without getting nuked to death. Second item I will get is boots, so you can run back and forth quicker. After boots, I get a bracer if necessary or even two if forced to. I make midas and then go straight for MKB. By now you are a mean hitting bastard. Get Bot and then HOT. After that it is really up to you. I agree Skadi blows.

Things that blow on sniper. Getting Lothar, Not getting Hot, making S&Y, making butterfly too soon.

Heen

Korea (South)2178 Posts

August 11 2007 17:36 GMT

#327

Well I guess we don't disagree on much then

Just the item build it seems as I max take aim first followed by headshot and rest stats.

You never elaborated on why you disapprove of lothar's and SnY though. As for wraith bands, I feel they are still much hated on even after their price drop. It's really situational. Obviously wraith bands would be better if you are laning against a soft nuke hero(s).

I also have to question your motives for getting midas. Midas is for heroes that have a hard time farming and benefit a lot from the attack speed. Not that sniper doesn't benefit from it but it just slows you down. 2000 gold is a lot at the stage of the game you described O_O

HoT is good on anyone but is it really necessary? It's purely defensive but I think just playing more conservatively with more dmg output is better off

{ToT}Strafe

Thailand7026 Posts

August 11 2007 18:17 GMT

#328

I disapprove on lothar's because I prefer a conservative play which doesn't make you have to escape. I disapprove on it because I prefer to get MKB faster. The way I play dwarf is by standing behind the other's using my range to stay out of trouble. I want to dish out a lot of dmg when I get in and lothar's doesnt add dmg at all, sufficient speed. MKB is 100 times stronger. Later on lothar's will be useless vs good players and you need HOT. Else you'll be around 1400 hp, nuke nuke bye bye. The reason I get midas is because like I said, dwarf is all about attack speed. Midas is a solid 30% attack speed and I just hate treads on him. Also the 2k will be easily rewarded back to you by taking the big creeps that give 160 -+ every time you convert them, that added with the 30% attack speed makes it more than worth it. I'm working out at the moment so I feel a little fuzzy and my post might be very mixed and unclear

My apologies

-edit- Sange and yasha is fucking expensive and just blows compared to HOT/Butterfly/w/e

lovetramy

Vietnam120 Posts

August 11 2007 19:13 GMT

#329

SnY is a good mid game item but if you go SnY u better kill ur opponents alot so that they couldnt have tier 4 item before u otherwise u dead
just my 2 cent

Pacifist

Israel1683 Posts

August 11 2007 23:35 GMT

#330

Thanks a lot to both Heen and Strafe!

Ack1027

United States7873 Posts

August 11 2007 23:44 GMT

#331

My sniper build also consists of

Bracers midas boots mkb styg/butterfly [ depending on game ] travels heart crit.

brambolius

Netherlands448 Posts

August 12 2007 01:43 GMT

#332

strafe id kik u at dota

{ToT}Strafe

Thailand7026 Posts

August 12 2007 02:13 GMT

#333

whatever you want.

rpf

United States2705 Posts

August 12 2007 07:11 GMT

#334

How do you guys play Magnataur, Sven, and Leoric?

Here are mine:

Magnataur:
2 tangos/1 circlet/1 gauntlet (1 more circlet if it's ar)
work towards perseverance/finish both gauntlets/boots (depends on when I need fountain trips)
finish bfury
dagger
travels

Sven and Leo I'm not so sure about. They're both very similar in that each has a spammable nuke/stun, and so each requires regen of some kind. One has crit and lifesteal, and the other has cleave.

It seems like a basilius would be good on either, as basilius gives both the damage needed to last hit, and the armor needed to withstand the harassment hits taken going in for the last hit, as well as the regen, although static, that's good for being able to use storm bolt more.

Bfury seems good on either, although it seems better on Sven because it stacks. Leo's lifesteal depends on damage, and crit depends on attack speed and damage, so it makes me think a hyperstone at the least would be good along with a heart, so yeah. I'm just curious what you guys think.

TheMango

United States1967 Posts

August 12 2007 07:36 GMT

#335

I'd probably get bottle on all three of those heroes, and definitely wouldn't get bfury. Also, as far as early game skill build, you should be going stun/stats - do not get any of their passive/aura/buffs until you stun is maxed out. For pubs, I usually go bottle/circlets->bracers(if needed)/blink on all three heroes, then BoT/hood/heart + w/e you want (vanguard, linkens, satanic, etc). Probably BKB on sven by mid game. Other than that, just build your heroes according to the game flow.

rpf

United States2705 Posts

August 12 2007 07:40 GMT

#336

Why do you say no completely to bfury? It's a beast on any melee hero that has decent damage output. It makes farming/defending creep waves a joke.

Is there a better thing to spend money on?

Edit: I've never really used a bottle. When do you want it? When do you not want it? I know you can refill it at the fountain, but how does the rune thing work?

lololol

5198 Posts

August 12 2007 08:15 GMT

#337

On Sniper, Stygian > Buriza
Stygian increases damage from your teammates, too.
It provides higher dps than Buriza and it has effect on every attack, while with critical there's some luck.
The armor reduction increases MKB's 100 damage ministun proc, as well as his headshot proc, while Buriza's Crit never does.
Stygian is also much cheaper than Buriza and Buriza is only better if the enemies have a lot of armor - around 20+ without considering cost effectivness, just comparing the items 1vs1... if you consider cost effectivness Stygian is always better.

When the bottle is empty you use it on the rune(just like on the fountain to refill it) and it will store the rune for a few minutes, if you don't use it manually, it will activate when the time runs out. After the rune is used up, the bottle will be 2/3 full.

{ToT}Strafe

Thailand7026 Posts

August 12 2007 12:00 GMT

#338

why would you get BF on heroes that already have massive cleave dmg? Don't you think it would be better to up your HP and attack speed? get hot on every single one of those heroes rpf.

lovetramy

Vietnam120 Posts

August 12 2007 12:06 GMT

#339

mass HOT if u want tank
HOT + MKB if want dmg

{ToT}Strafe

Thailand7026 Posts

August 12 2007 12:29 GMT

#340

Only 1 hot of course