I've owned pubs with AXE getting the following items: Linkens, BoT, Skadi and... (drumroll) Aghanim + Dagon(which I didn't get to use)! Obviously my AXE build is better than your AXE build and saying that it does not work just because your head is full of stats and numbers isn't very convincing.
You could say you have tried it(but I'm sure you never did, so you really can't) and you think your build is better because of A and B.
Otherwise your teorycrafting arguments are null and void.
If most of you say I'm wrong that obviously means that the majority is wrong only because people are easy to influence.
If most of you agree, then obviously the majority is with me and I'm right!

Hydro Kirby

United States7 Posts

July 19 2007 04:20 GMT

#202

On July 19 2007 13:01 LastWish wrote:
Saying something doesn't work just because your head is full of stats and numbers isn't very convincing.
You could say you have tried it and you think your build is better because of A and B.
Otherwise your teorycrafting arguments are null and void.

Oh, trust me, I've tried all of these builds before. Of course it's not based off of pure theorycraft.

terr13

United States298 Posts

July 19 2007 04:26 GMT

#203

Even though it looks like pure theorycraft, the numbers are just there to backup our findings. All the builds discussed have been used in game, and are what I have seen to be the most effective. Obviously, things do change after awhile though.

BlueRoyaL

United States2493 Posts

July 19 2007 04:32 GMT

#204

dude, getting guinsoo for axe is so fun, spamming battle hunger that early is a bitch to play against

paper

13196 Posts

July 19 2007 04:37 GMT

#205

spamming battle hunger when people can last hit = lol

DarkYoDA

United States1347 Posts

July 19 2007 04:50 GMT

#206

go www.dota-allstars.com and watch the replays. There are a lot of good and proven builds there.

paper

13196 Posts

July 19 2007 08:08 GMT

#207

a lot of people play dota ;D

we should all get together and see whose advice prevails >:o

btw GOGO and replenish my thread my minions~
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=51775

rpf

United States2705 Posts

July 19 2007 10:16 GMT

#208

On July 19 2007 13:37 paper wrote:
spamming battle hunger when people can last hit = lol

Let them kill your creep wave quickly, then put it on them. hehehe

Or, put it on a melee hero, then wait for him to run in to last hit. Either deny or get a couple hits on him. The damage from it adds up over time. If you wait until you have rank 2 or 3, it's even better.

Axe and Juggernaut are so fun.

Ack1027

United States7873 Posts

July 19 2007 10:45 GMT

#209

Our HTGN Pro-Dota match.

rpf

United States2705 Posts

July 19 2007 14:38 GMT

#210

Nice! 14-2 is pretty impressive. I assume you spent most of the mid game ganking the crap out of people and got an early level lead?

LastWish

2015 Posts

July 19 2007 14:53 GMT

#211

On July 19 2007 19:45 Ack1027 wrote:
Our HTGN Pro-Dota match.

I like how you use the word pro everywhere... I hope that means they pay you money for it and that you can do it for your living.

Heen

Korea (South)2178 Posts

July 19 2007 15:09 GMT

#212

On July 19 2007 19:16 rpf wrote:

Show nested quote +

Axe and Juggernaut are so fun.

Get battle hunger at lvl 22-25 plz -_- Maybe if they reduced the mana cost it might be a more threatening of a skill

Anyway I didn't thoroughly read that huge post in page 10 even though the poster did have some truth to share mainly because he relied on numbers so much. Like SnY vs Skadi, which he implied Skadi is better. It's not that simple.

I rarely care about the total cost of items because it's really the transition that matters.

The only items for which I know the total cost by heart are the obvious/easy ones:
BoT, hands of midas, radiance, old aegis etc.

'Can I really afford to walk around with nothing while farming for the next 10 minutes?' is the question I ask rather than comparing numbers and stats to see which item is better overall since the context of the items make a difference.

You have to work for your money in dota. Hell, the only reason iron wood branches are the most cost-effective is because they're so cheap anyone can afford them. Unfortunately we don't have thosuands of item slots so let's leave it at that. It won't make a huge difference whether you go circlet/gauntlets or branches.

terr13

United States298 Posts

July 19 2007 16:04 GMT

#213

True, it really doesn't matter which item you go early on, but don't dismiss branches as stupid.

Although the transition for some items may be a long time, it shouldn't change things significantly. When you build Butterfly, you get Eaglehorn first most of the time, although if you had quarterstaff first, you may be able to use the IAS to help farm for your Butterfly. Most games have a period of farming, where almost ever hero is farming, or trying to get into favorable positions. Spending your money as you earn it will not be quite as beneficial as saving it up for the higher tier items, since after a period of time, only tier 3-4 items will even have any effect. And the answer is yes, you can afford to walk around with nothing for the next 10 minutes. If you are really farming poorly then get more bracers to buff your life, but don't stop going for Stygian Desolator and start going for Basher or something just because you can't farm.

I still standby my statement that SnY is a bad item, although it may be beneficial for some select characters. For the comparison of Skadi and SnY, it seems pretty simple. Even when you're building for your Skadi, you have a lot of bonuses from your Ultimate Orbs, each one is worth one part of SnY, each of which are not too bad.

EDIT: DotA pros can't live off the money they earn. Usually pros are ones that play on IHCS1, or in the formal leagues and do well.

ToT)BrAiN(

Austria899 Posts

July 19 2007 16:57 GMT

#214

some of those item builds almost make me cry

BlueRoyaL

United States2493 Posts

July 19 2007 17:30 GMT

#215

On July 19 2007 23:53 LastWish wrote:

Show nested quote +

I like how you use the word pro everywhere... I hope that means they pay you money for it and that you can do it for your living.

and you can quit being ignorant, he's playing at a higher level than you i'm pretty sure

not all cal-i teams get payed to play, but they can be considered pro cuz they're at the top of the game

TheMango

United States1967 Posts

July 19 2007 18:08 GMT

#216

On July 19 2007 23:53 LastWish wrote:

Show nested quote +

I like how you use the word pro everywhere... I hope that means they pay you money for it and that you can do it for your living.

Idiot, that's what the league he's in is called.

paper

13196 Posts

July 19 2007 18:14 GMT

#217

ack, reps? ;D

edit: not one-sided ones~~ :d

rpf

United States2705 Posts

July 19 2007 19:59 GMT

#218

What do you guys think about mana regen items?

I just played a game with DK, and I noticed I would run out of mana really quickly. I had enough mana for the stun/nuke combo, so I didn't go for a talisman, but opted for a RoB. I didn't intend to take it any farther than that, as to me it wasn't an integral part of my hero's build.

I'm just curious how the mathcraft works out on the different mana regen items. Should I have just left it at a sobi? Or should I have gone for a void stone, or (gas) an arcane?

I considered arcane, but it's a bit expensive, even if it would give me endless mana. I figured the RoB would at least help me push, and it isn't that expensive. I'm just curious what you guys think.

paper

13196 Posts

July 19 2007 20:10 GMT

#219

arcane on dk is overkill~

imo, RoB is fine with the added regen and +6 damage, but if youre that mana dependent, just get some clarities :d

rpf

United States2705 Posts

July 19 2007 20:14 GMT

#220

Hm, that's a good alternative. I agree that the arcane would be overkill. I wasn't constantly spamming those spells, although having arcane and spamming my nuke would have been incredible for farming creep waves and pushing to their last tower just to go push another lane while my 19 waves of creeps that never got hurt are beating on their tower.