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Not everyone uses Ken but the majority uses Ken. Here in Germany 1/2 of the players use Ken because you pick him and immediately see results (you win). He has the best normals of all characters in the game, he does a lot of damage and he is the only shoto that can hid twice with a Shoryuken. Also his super is easy to use because you hit with a crouching MK as poke and then just cancel it into the super. This does around 1/3 or 1/4 dmg depending on the character. Actually you start Ken and know his moves and how to play him. He does not have a lot of combos to learn and those combos are pretty easy compared to other character combos (Urien unblockables etc).
Chun is not used that often because people find her boring to play and she does not make as much fun as Ken because she actually only abuses her normal priority. Her normal moves are safe, have high priority and do BIG Damage. Again crouching MK leads to her super that does nearly 1/2 dmg to the openents health bar. Other normals work too when they hit.
Yun has Genei-Jin. That Super makes him Top Tier. 1Combo and the Super Bar is nearly full and is full if you land his chain combo when you did a Genei-Jin combo ender.
By the way, I think Ken is in front of Chun because he has a 5:5 Match up against Yun while Chun has a disadvantage against Yun.
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On August 15 2007 01:01 ScoutWBF wrote:
snip
You have valid points, Ken/Chun/Yun are top tier for good reasons.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=124501
That's an index of Japanese players (which are pretty much the best of the bunch at SF). You'll probably be able to tell which characters are top tier just by looking at the list.
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/206/20051226123941589560sg.jpg
This is a picture of the current tier list as theorised by the Japanese - the numbers are out of 8.
Anyway, I stand by my point that SF3S is a good game. There is a lot of varied play in tournaments (but obviously, the winners are usually the people that spent the most time on improving their top tier characters). Not to rain on your parade or anything, but tournament results from Germany don't really mean all that much in the world of Street Fighter. Europe doesn't exactly have a fearsome reputation for breeding amazing fighting game players. I personally didn't enjoy Alpha (even though I fucking love Bison[but his CvSNK2 model is better]), even though I can see there is a good (as far as I know) game there. Just different preferences, I guess.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
LOL pretty much everything ScoutWBF has asserted about 3rd strike is wrong. So much so that I am laughing and don't even feel likre refuting hits points.
Humorous. Keep it up.
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On August 13 2007 20:54 freelander wrote:ky is interesting ..everyone thought in slash that he's so overpowered, brutal etc. but ky didn't really win tournaments.. IMO the basic character design is responsible for that, ky is predictable. when you make his damage better, it doesn't count much when ky's opponents block all his mix-up could you tell about makoto in 3s ? I'm interested in her.. she has nice specials in the vids..  and.. what can Urien's special do, when he makes a portal or somethign......
I'm also experimenting with Makoto, but I mix-up her dash-forward move (dunno the name) with another that just swings her first upwards, but leaves her vulnerable to basically any counter =\ I need a real controller, not keyboard 
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On August 15 2007 04:27 Naib wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2007 20:54 freelander wrote:ky is interesting ..everyone thought in slash that he's so overpowered, brutal etc. but ky didn't really win tournaments.. IMO the basic character design is responsible for that, ky is predictable. when you make his damage better, it doesn't count much when ky's opponents block all his mix-up could you tell about makoto in 3s ? I'm interested in her.. she has nice specials in the vids.. and.. what can Urien's special do, when he makes a portal or somethign...... I'm also experimenting with Makoto, but I mix-up her dash-forward move (dunno the name) with another that just swings her first upwards, but leaves her vulnerable to basically any counter =\ I need a real controller, not keyboard
I keep fucking up and doing Shoryuken instead of Hadoken, which leaves me open for like, 2-3 seconds. I don't actually know what keys you hit for Shoryuken, but as far as I can tell it's down-right-down. I know Hadoken is down-downright-right.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
shoryu is forward-down-downright.
you can technically do it with downright-down-downright as well.
makoto's fukiage is very situational and honestly i'd advise against using it other than in her SA combo.
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On August 15 2007 05:10 thedeadhaji wrote:
shoryu is forward-down-downright.
you can technically do it with downright-down-downright as well.
Ah, thanks. Do you play exclusively on emulators?
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
I own a copy of 3rd strike on DC and 2 copies on PS2.
The only reason I'm looking into the emulator is for its netplay capacity (since I don't own a xbox). I'm actually not even sure my comp has enough power to run the emus ><
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On August 15 2007 05:10 thedeadhaji wrote:
shoryu is forward-down-downright.
you can technically do it with downright-down-downright as well.
makoto's fukiage is very situational and honestly i'd advise against using it other than in her SA combo.
Always think about this!
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On August 15 2007 05:18 thedeadhaji wrote:
I own a copy of 3rd strike on DC and 2 copies on PS2.
The only reason I'm looking into the emulator is for its netplay capacity
A lot of people spit upon the netplay but if you're just looking for fun and can ignore shit-talking from kids, then it's cool.
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You sir, have no idea. some weeks ago Makoto, a Japanese Player, won a X and A-ism only Tournament with A-Dan! He killed a Ryu,Gouki and the best Nash player TMOA in the finals. Dan is not a crappy character. He is all about poking and pressuring the openent. He gains meter faster than any other character and this aggressive meter pump will make the openent make mistakes.
X-ism, A-ism tournament... that's like Twelve winning a SA1 only tournament. I doubt this tournament was completely serious and I doubt all people in this tournament were serious. Not to say that Dan winning a tournament isn't surprising to me, but 1 player winning 1 tournament doesn't debunk the whole tier list and it obviously doesn't prove one game is better than another.
BTW was this tournament in Japan or was this in Germany? Yamazaki can come from Japan to an FFA tournament here in SoCal and rape the shit outta everyone with his Twelve. That's because he's way better than everyone here and infinitely more experienced.
BTW#2 a team with Sean (#19 out of 19) won the last a-cho tournament; the Sean almost OCV'ed the last team (I posted a video if it on page 4 of this page). So 3s > A3 now cause the worst character in the game won a tournament right?
You will never see this in 3rd Strike because every Ken player can cancel a c.mk into his SA3 super. Yun, Ken and Chun-Li are by FAR the best characters in the game and the only characters that still stand a chance to win a tournament are Urien and Makoto. The rest of the cast will get raped easily by a good player that plays one of the Top 3 Characters.
So Yang, Dudley, and Akuma (who are all higher than Urien on the tier list) don't exist now do they? YCK are strong and excellent characters, but there are a plethora of low tier and mid tier characters who can give them a run for their money and win, just like in A3.
Edit: Oh yeah, Ken is by far the most overused Character in 3rd. He's easy to play and does not need any skill at all. Chun is the same. She needs 2Buttons: MK and HP. poke,hit,super and 50% of the openents life is gone.
I hate people who say characters are "easy" to use. How bout this, you go play Chun and Ken and you go win some tournaments in Japan (where ALL foreign 3s teams are OCVed) and then you come back here with proof and I'll believe you. No character in any fighting game is easy to play with and win with at the top most level of play.
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On August 15 2007 09:45 ArC_man wrote:
So Yang, Dudley, and Akuma (who are all higher than Urien on the tier list) don't exist now do they?
The last Tier List I read Urien was ranked right after Makoto. There are many different Tier lists. I even saw one that ranked Sean as 3rd worst character and not the worst.
Also Team Tournaments are something different as one character can actually make a team rank really high. But still most of the time the Top Tier Character Teams win. Just days ago a Chun,Ken, Yun Team won the SBO. 2nd place was RX with Urien and a Necro and a Yang player. And RX is pretty much the Urien Monster. That guy makes Urien look like a Top Tier Character but in the end he could not make his team win against the 3 Top Tier Characters.
That XA-Ism Tournament was in Japan of course.
With easy to use I meant that you choose for example Ken and you know his moves. You won't have to learn a lot or practice a lot like a Urien player to set up his unblockables and charge patitioning. Even I am able to beat people that play for several years and even with me playing SA2 instead of SA3 and those players are better than me by far. When I play 3rd Strike I play Urien as my main character and Ken SA2 for fun.
We got different opinions, so who cares?
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On August 15 2007 01:01 ScoutWBF wrote:
Not everyone uses Ken but the majority uses Ken. Here in Germany 1/2 of the players use Ken because you pick him and immediately see results (you win).
Talking out of your ass...
He has the best normals of all characters in the game,
How do you judge that?
he does a lot of damage
He does average damage.
and he is the only shoto that can hid twice with a Shoryuken.
Yeah, and every other character has unique combos too. So what?
Also his super is easy to use because you hit with a crouching MK as poke and then just cancel it into the super.
So he can cancel a poke into a super? You mean like Chun Li, Ryu, Akuma, Dudley, Elena, Makoto, Yang, Ibuki, and Sean? Not to mention all the other ways different characters can set up their own supers. Moreover, if every character could cancel low mk into super, the game would suck because it would lose a lot of its diversity.
This does around 1/3 or 1/4 dmg depending on the character.
It's average for its bar length.
Actually you start Ken and know his moves and how to play him. He does not have a lot of combos to learn and those combos are pretty easy compared to other character combos (Urien unblockables etc).
Compared to which other characters? Urien, Dudley, Yun, and Ibuki?
Chun is not used that often because people find her boring to play and she does not make as much fun as Ken because she actually only abuses her normal priority. Her normal moves are safe, have high priority and do BIG Damage.
Most characters' normal moves are safe. Chun Li's normals do LESS damage than most other characters, however.
Again crouching MK leads to her super that does nearly 1/2 dmg to the openents health bar.
Closer to 1/3, actually. And it's average for its bar length.
Other normals work too when they hit.
Yun has Genei-Jin. That Super makes him Top Tier. 1Combo and the Super Bar is nearly full and is full if you land his chain combo when you did a Genei-Jin combo ender. By the way, I think Ken is in front of Chun because he has a 5:5 Match up against Yun while Chun has a disadvantage against Yun.
Chun is better against most other members of the cast than Ken, and Chun has the advantage against Ken as well. So that's a pretty dumb thing to believe. You talk like there's a huge difference between 5:5 and 4:6. Well the reason why it's 4:6 and not 3:7 or 2:8 is because there isn't a big difference at all.
So what if Yun, Chun Li, and Ken are top-tier? Unless you're playing at a very high level (which you obviously aren't), or you're playing one of the bottom-tier characters, it's not going to make much difference anyway. Over time you'll get better at beating Y-C-K, and you'll be a better player from having more difficult matchups (compared to the Y-C-K player) against the same opponents.
Pros and hardcore tournament players aside, what is so bad about picking a lower-tier character and having somewhat fewer wins but becoming a better player, compared to picking a top-tier character and having a few more wins but becoming a less-skilled player? I guess it's a big deal to you, but for most people it won't be.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On August 15 2007 04:47 H_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2007 04:27 Naib wrote:On August 13 2007 20:54 freelander wrote:ky is interesting ..everyone thought in slash that he's so overpowered, brutal etc. but ky didn't really win tournaments.. IMO the basic character design is responsible for that, ky is predictable. when you make his damage better, it doesn't count much when ky's opponents block all his mix-up could you tell about makoto in 3s ? I'm interested in her.. she has nice specials in the vids.. and.. what can Urien's special do, when he makes a portal or somethign...... I'm also experimenting with Makoto, but I mix-up her dash-forward move (dunno the name) with another that just swings her first upwards, but leaves her vulnerable to basically any counter =\ I need a real controller, not keyboard I keep fucking up and doing Shoryuken instead of Hadoken, which leaves me open for like, 2-3 seconds. I don't actually know what keys you hit for Shoryuken, but as far as I can tell it's down-right-down. I know Hadoken is down-downright-right.
I know your pain. I used to do accidental shroyus rather frequently T_T. Then I'd call out "Nooooo not shoryuken!" as my character dies ^_^. The trick is to just get into the habit of NEVER doing a hadoken after you've been walking forward  , or if you really must, then do a half-circle from back to forward. Also, doing fewer hadokens helps too.
I think I have you all beat when it comes to doing stupid stuff, though . One time I was playing Makoto vs Makoto and I had this guy beat, literally: I had him in my hands (karakusa), and just needed to finish him off with fierce-hayate (the dash punch thing). Instead I thought the fierce would kill him so I just did fierce-nothing. He lives with no life left, and I had no life left either. He killed me 2 seconds later T____T. Everyone watching was going "WTF rofl" ^_^;;.
But really that's nothing. One time I lost to my opponent's girlfriend who sat in the corner and did nothing but block and mash when I got close  .
The worst was about a month ago (so I had no excuse for doing stupid stuff ). It was Ken vs Ken and my opponent and I had no life left. For some reason he tried sweeping me. I blocked it, and had the game won right there: I could have supered and hit him easily, or I could have even just pressed sweep myself. Unfortunately, right before this I had decided to do an EX-hadoken, so after blocking the sweep I tried to do an EX-hadoken (a dumb enough thing in and of itself ) but messed up and did a normal hadoken. Hadoken doesn't come out fast enough to punish a blocked sweep, and he effortlessly parried it and killed me T____T;;;;;;.
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On August 15 2007 10:10 ScoutWBF wrote:
The last Tier List I read Urien was ranked right after Makoto. There are many different Tier lists. I even saw one that ranked Sean as 3rd worst character and not the worst.
My point was that these characters have always and will always compete with the top tier at a relatively even level. Meaning they do not get raped by the top tier as you claimed.
Also Team Tournaments are something different as one character can actually make a team rank really high. But still most of the time the Top Tier Character Teams win. Just days ago a Chun,Ken, Yun Team won the SBO. 2nd place was RX with Urien and a Necro and a Yang player. And RX is pretty much the Urien Monster. That guy makes Urien look like a Top Tier Character but in the end he could not make his team win against the 3 Top Tier Characters.
My point was that 1 shitty character winning 1 tournament means absolutely nothing other than that 1 person being an absolute beast. That's all.
BTW RX's team actually lost to a Yun, Chun, and Makoto team. RX and Roshihikari actually lost to the Makoto. RX and Roshihikari beat the shit out of all the Chuns, Kens, and Yuns they met that day.
With easy to use I meant that you choose for example Ken and you know his moves. You won't have to learn a lot or practice a lot like a Urien player to set up his unblockables and charge patitioning. Even I am able to beat people that play for several years and even with me playing SA2 instead of SA3 and those players are better than me by far. When I play 3rd Strike I play Urien as my main character and Ken SA2 for fun.
Easy to use at the scrub level means nothing. Heck when I first started, I used Q, triple taunted, random dash punch into super beat the shit outta everyone I knew (we were all scrubby as hell). Also there's Akuma. Jump back fireball, dive kick into hurricane kicks, free wins against scrubs. At the highest levels there's no such thing as a free win, there are match-ups that are much easier but nothing is free.
We got different opinions, so who cares?
You're talking random trash about 3s, I'm not dissing A3, in fact I haven't made one attempt to bash A3 at all (since I respect and value all fighting games). You come to a 3s thread and say it's a garbage game (with wrong facts as well), no duh you're gonna get bashed.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On August 15 2007 04:27 Naib wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2007 20:54 freelander wrote:ky is interesting ..everyone thought in slash that he's so overpowered, brutal etc. but ky didn't really win tournaments.. IMO the basic character design is responsible for that, ky is predictable. when you make his damage better, it doesn't count much when ky's opponents block all his mix-up could you tell about makoto in 3s ? I'm interested in her.. she has nice specials in the vids.. and.. what can Urien's special do, when he makes a portal or somethign...... I'm also experimenting with Makoto, but I mix-up her dash-forward move (dunno the name) with another that just swings her first upwards, but leaves her vulnerable to basically any counter =\ I need a real controller, not keyboard
The dash punch is called a hayate (edit: see haji's post below for pronunciation pronounced "Hi-ya", like a karate chop, then "tay". hi-ya-tay), and the uppercut is called a fukiage (which doesn't sound anything like it looks in english ).
I find playing against the computer rather boring in 3s, because you can't play headgames with the CPU. Makoto's gameplay especially loses almost all of its excitement, because it's aimed at crushing souls with karakusa mixups or other shenanigans .
Here's an easy trick: on the earlier levels you can simply do lk-karakusa -> hp xx mp- or hp-hayate over and over and over and the computer will almost never jump away from the next karakusa (command grab) after each hayate. (Tip: this is also effective against novices because they usually don't think to jump away and it's very hard to hit her between the hayate and the next lk-karakusa .) It's also very easy to just karakusa the computer when it wakes up, or do standing lp or mp first followed by karakusa after they block it. Just remember there's a 5-frame throw immunity after a character gets up, so you have to land the karakusa on them ever-so-slightly after they are up.
However, on later levels these tricks work ~1% of the time because the computer almost always jumps away from the karakusa, and almost always blocks any mix-ups you try to do. So basically you have to defend for the whole match  .
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Bill, its a waste of time to explain certain things to certain individuals because they simply don't understand any better. Only time will tell if they can actually grow a brain.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8792/1168211717855pf3rr3.jpg)
