On August 14 2007 00:15 gameguard wrote: one thing I wana know is. What the heck is order-sol good for? whenever I see him, he just seems very unspectacular.
ok I\'ll talk about accent core order-sol, you know he was very weak in slash
he's fast! he's force break move ("little super" , costs 25%meter instead of 50%) good to interrupt the opponents string.. good normal moves! his throws are above average.. his air throw is untechable.. (you can't recover after you got airthrown), that's why it leads to combos .. and free damage, his ground throw has wallstick, so if you do it in the corner it leads to nice combos that hurt. Compared to his slash version, he gains much more meter (I'm talking about his unique own meter, not the general tension meter. this affects your specials and your super moves.) there is the new charge cancel, which you can cancel your specials into, so it shortens the recovery time AND adds meter. oh. the normal charge is faster than it was in slash. now you can make lvl 1 specials and supers whatever level you has on your unique meter, and you don't have to do lvl2 or 3 specials if your meter got high, you can spare it or do lvl1 combos if those lead to higher damage in your condition.
his disadvantage is.. the short range! it is the same, you have to get in your opponent's face to get something and it's not easy against eg. testament, venom..
so he became a nice character, and I find his combos spectacular.. and his specials are cool!
On August 13 2007 18:40 CharlieMurphy wrote: hmm, most of those combos in that video I can already do and better.
There is this combo that I have been using a lot that goes like this:
demon flip , kick in, LKx2, LK-hurricane kick, shoryu cancel to SA1(hadou special).
now if they are blocking after the 2 low kicks i go for a throw and take it from there.
I wanna make some videos but there is no practice mode in the CPS3 emulator because its arcade. Is there a code or something to type to get into it?
For "practice mode" in the emulator, just use save states. Like start a match with 2 players and then just build meter and when you have max meter, save state it. It's obviously not as good as a real training mode but it's better than nothing I guess.
I'm pretty sure cr. lk doesn't combo into hurricane, you'd have to do cr. mk or cr. lk, cr. mp to combo into hurricane. However, I would just keep the combo to dive kick, cr.mk, lk hurricane, hp shoryu, since the damage scaling makes the super do very little damage and the meter could be better saved for a hit confirm or for demon setups. Usually long combos ending in supers aren't worth it meter-wise (unless it's for the killing blow), so keep combos into supers short so the super does maximum damage (stuff like cr.mk xx super to punish; hit confirm close mk/cr. mp to super, cr. lk cr. lk xx super are the most useful).
I dunno if you noticed this in the video (or you may already know this), but it shows you can "cancel" the demon flip by pressing kick very late into the flip (almost when he's on the ground). The empty demon flip is a nice setup for a throw/kara-throw, or you can cr. lk, cr. lk xx super, or you can jump back hk, or you can go immediately into another demon flip... stupid shit like that.
Alpha 3 > 3rd Strike. It's not that tier heavy and you can actually win with every character. Also normals are more important and not to just pump meter or cancel into some random super combo.
I thought A3 was super imba in A-groove after the discovery of certain combo loops (er not A groove, but similar enough). Was it like, A-ryu? A-gouki? I forget.
Besides, if A3 was really > 3s, there'd still be a strong following of players (much like the Super turbo players who still play after ~15 years), but no such players really exist.
In Germany there are Players that play only Alpha 3 and Players that play Guilty Gear as main game and Alpha 3 for fun. 3rd Strike Players are really bad at Alpha3 while Alpha 3 players can do pretty good in 3rd Strike. Imo A3>CvS2>3rd. 3rd is just fuckin imbalanced.
Oh yeah the Ism you mean is probably V-Ism because of the Custom Combos.
Edit: Characters with infinites are not Top Tier in Alpha 3. Most likely they are Mid or near Upper Tier. Top Tier are Gouki,Dhalsim and Zangief. None of these characters has an infinite.
Why is it that every SF game has something broken or completely imbalanced?
The roll cancel shit SNK2 these infinite combos in A3 & MvC2.
Even in ST there is some pretty cheap shit such as Boxer's low jab - face bite thing. or Sagat's mass tigers (even though they can be avoided its really hard).
On August 14 2007 10:28 ScoutWBF wrote: Alpha 3 > 3rd Strike. It's not that tier heavy and you can actually win with every character. Also normals are more important and not to just pump meter or cancel into some random super combo.
Sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about -_-.
There is no way you can make that claim about 3s and at the same time say it doesn't apply to A3. So many high-level matches revolve around building meter for a custom combo, then catching the opponent off-guard with an activation.
Furthermore, how can that apply to 3s when a lot of the cast has longer super meters and/or less-useful supers (in contrast to Yun or Ken)? Like almost any character besides Yun, Chun Li, Ken, Urien, or Dudley? For them, normals and special moves are obviously a lot more important than merely building meter for a super. Moreover, characters with a shorter super bar (Yun's Genei-Jin excluded) have supers that deal the same damage as ~2 fierce/roundhouse hits, so they still deal the bulk of their damage through normals, specials, combos, etc. anyway. Finally, a lot of super combos can still deal good damage without a super at the end.
Now honestly I don't know much about A3, but your claim is almost totally wrong for 3s -_-. If that's how you play 3s -- just building meter for supers -- then either you play Yun or you suck ass. One of the only characters like that is Yun, and guess what? His super IS a custom combo, just like V-ism in A3. Honestly, your perception of 3s is way off.
I think it's partly b/c players are willing to play the SF games to the point of discovering the super imbalanced shit (plus SF games tend to be in the rotation for a long time, as opposed to a KOF or GG that gets a new version out every couple of years)
[QUOTE]On August 14 2007 11:17 ScoutWBF wrote: In Germany there are Players that play only Alpha 3 and Players that play Guilty Gear as main game and Alpha 3 for fun. 3rd Strike Players are really bad at Alpha3 while Alpha 3 players can do pretty good in 3rd Strike. Imo A3>CvS2>3rd. 3rd is just fuckin imbalanced.
mm, I don't think Japan, Korea, China, or the States plays Alpha 3 at a large scale? (It's not even in EVO is it?)
On August 14 2007 11:17 ScoutWBF wrote: In Germany there are Players that play only Alpha 3 and Players that play Guilty Gear as main game and Alpha 3 for fun. 3rd Strike Players are really bad at Alpha3 while Alpha 3 players can do pretty good in 3rd Strike.
What does that have to do with anything?
3s is far more popular than A3 worldwide. So if you think A3 > 3s then you are in the small minority.
It depends what you mean by broken and imbalanced. Almost every game has some glitches or tricks to them either not directly seen from the developers or not used in a way that they thought could be used. What really matters is that the games are reasonably balanced, deep enough so that players keep wanting to learn, and fun enough to keep people playing.
ST is a game that's all about matchups. Sagat's mass tigers might be difficult for some characters to counter (for example O. Sagat > Honda), but other characters will have an advantage against him (for example Sim > O. Sagat).
I was really into A3 a while back (like 3 years ago or something lol). A3 is alright balance-wise, but there are still really shitty characters (Honda anyone? and of course Dan). There's just no way you can make a completely balanced fighting game. You can say V-ism gives a good chance for shitty characters to win, since every character has basically a ~50% V-ism combo into crouch cancels, but the same can be made about Parrying giving every character a chance in 3s. It is the only SF that has Zangief as top tier, which is pretty bad ass.
Just a few noob comments from experience trying out all the characters: I noticed that Ken and Chun-Li are far more easier to play, to say compared to Ibuki / Ryu / Yun (these are the characters are played so far). I mean, comboing Shoryuu Reppa is SO easy after you get in a hit, it's ridicolous On the other hand, using Yun's most used SA definitely is too hard for me atm (after 2 days of playing )
Edit: Yun's most used super is Genei-Jin I guess (got some trouble with the names so far)
On August 14 2007 17:48 CharlieMurphy wrote: I think those characters can be compared to poker.
10 minutes to learn, lifetime to master.
Agreed, been playing Ken for 2-3 days and it's pretty simple to go through all the stages and beat the final boss, but I'm pretty damn sure if I tried to play against a human I'd get ripped
Well of course, I was just referring to the basics. I know it takes hella lot more to play them on pro level But this may explain why they're considered the top-tier characters, or am I on the wrong trail?
On August 14 2007 11:48 ArC_man wrote: A3 is alright balance-wise, but there are still really shitty characters (Dan).
You sir, have no idea. some weeks ago Makoto, a Japanese Player, won a X and A-ism only Tournament with A-Dan! He killed a Ryu,Gouki and the best Nash player TMOA in the finals. Dan is not a crappy character. He is all about poking and pressuring the openent. He gains meter faster than any other character and this aggressive meter pump will make the openent make mistakes.
Dan is just harder to play because his Gadouken has a small range (imo best Fireball for Hado-Rave) and his Dragon Punch has small priority and range compared to other Dragon Punchs. He is listed #22 of 28 Characters.
While in A3 even a low Tier character can win tournaments (in Germany a Juni player (ranked #21 in the Tier list) won the biggest Biggest Beat-Em Up Tournament in Germany against a Rose player (ranked about #18) and both won against V-Gouki (ranked #1), Dhalsim(#2) and Zangief(#3) Players.
You will never see this in 3rd Strike because every Ken player can cancel a c.mk into his SA3 super. Yun, Ken and Chun-Li are by FAR the best characters in the game and the only characters that still stand a chance to win a tournament are Urien and Makoto. The rest of the cast will get raped easily by a good player that plays one of the Top 3 Characters.
3rd Strike sucks imo.
Edit: Oh yeah, Ken is by far the most overused Character in 3rd. He's easy to play and does not need any skill at all. Chun is the same. She needs 2Buttons: MK and HP. poke,hit,super and 50% of the openents life is gone.
Edit: Oh yeah, Ken is by far the most overused Character in 3rd. He's easy to play and does not need any skill at all. Chun is the same. She needs 2Buttons: MK and HP. poke,hit,super and 50% of the openents life is gone.
Your post was pretty good up until here. If he was so easy to play and doesn't need any skill, then everyone would use him, yeah? Not to mention he'd be the best character (He's third on the list behind Yun and Chun). Chun Li - you can't just say "She only needs two buttons - just do this combo into a super" because it's not that easy. It's never that easy. You know as well as I do (at least I assume you have knowledge of fighting games) that using a character is never(at least I hope not) as simple as "Press these buttons until you win". I might as well say "olol alpha is suck because i can just spam psycho crusher and win". High-level play, while it might look very simple and straight forward (Sagat in SFII, for instance [TIGER TIGER TIGER TIGER TIGER]) but each move is carefully calculated and considered. Not just OKAY I THINK I WILL HIT HIM WITH A SUPER NOW *50% life gone*.
EPT
On the other hand, using Yun's most used SA definitely is too hard for me atm (after 2 days of playing 
But this may explain why they're considered the top-tier characters, or am I on the wrong trail?
