EPTNot to mention some of the "passives" in those trees are... come on, bruv. 4% increased move speed? Please...
Diablo IV - Page 54
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Latham
9560 Posts
Not to mention some of the "passives" in those trees are... come on, bruv. 4% increased move speed? Please... | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21685 Posts
Games did this a ton in the past with a plethora of grey/brown cover shooters. I thought the industry had gotten over it >< The inventory feels cramped. Probably because they got told to fill most of the area with the player character to show off mtx. The skill system itself isn't bad tho I feel like D3 did it better. But the skill UI it atrocious. Way to much scrolling from wheel to wheel. Lots of games have done somewhat similar systems but executed it much cleaner visually. Combat was fine. Sofar I am not impressed by the story tho, the hook beyond "omg save the universe" just doesn't feel there. D3 has Leah who took you along on the journey and gave you something to care about. Her replacement is just not remotely as interesting in the interactions. Overall I am disappointed and from just the beta impression I feel like D3 is a better game. Sure D4 looks better graphically but its wasted on the colour palette and everywhere else it barely matches or falls short. I'm struggling to think if there is any area in which D4 actually improves on D3 (besides graphics which is should by default, being over a decade apart) | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
Is anyone else extremely disappointed in the skill trees? Not only are a lot of the skills copy/pasted from Diablo 3, but the "choices" that were so hyped are actually about only skin deep? personally I'm fine with the skill trees, with the expectation that legendaries/uniques and paragon will significantly change the gameplay. but you're right that they aren't as transformative as D3 in this beta. A lot of the skills/choices the skill looks exactly the same, and just has slightly increased numbers/performance, compared to D3's more creative and colorful optionsD3 has Leah who took you along on the journey and gave you something to care about. Her replacement is just not remotely as interesting in the interactions. You talking about Neyrelle? Yeah I wasn't really hooked by her and her sob story at all. Lorath was OK but just seems like stereotypical "I'm too old for this shiz" maverick. I'm pretty lukewarm about the story but as long as its not offensively bad I don't really care | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On March 26 2023 04:32 Manit0u wrote: I think this is actually a very good design decision. After all summons are effectively damage and tanking that other classes would need skills to use, if you could use them and still have your full bar of active abilities it would be way too strong. Imagine if in D2 Paladin could use auras without them occupying a skill slot... I agree. I'm playing with a druid now and it felt rougher than a necromancer at first. Those skeletons are really powerful in the early run and there should be a tradeoff in having them. Of course, part of it is the necromancer gets its path of the dead immediately while I think the druid one requires act 2 from the looks of it. With that said, I expect newbie friendly cookie cutter builds to pick one skill from each ring and necromancer players will have to give up 1-2 of them depending how many summons they want to pick up. On March 26 2023 06:59 Latham wrote: Is anyone else extremely disappointed in the skill trees? Not only are a lot of the skills copy/pasted from Diablo 3, but the "choices" that were so hyped are actually about only skin deep? The Diablo 3 skill runes were much more transformative to skills than this "enhance" and then whatever the 2 next choices are called (different for every class). Not to mention some of the "passives" in those trees are... come on, bruv. 4% increased move speed? Please... I've played 2 characters so far and I haven't seen a reason to not get the enhancement and one of the upgrades before sinking 5 points to any skill. The skill UI is just awful. It defaults to using up 40% of the screen space on a PC, which isn't enough to convey meaningful information without a lot of scrolling around. I need to open it to full screen, but it doesn't take advantage of my monitor's widescreen and still requires a lot of scrolling around. On March 26 2023 05:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Seriously.... nobody is chatting during the beta. How is this not freaking anybody else out?! Best part of the beta for me haha, nobody being annoying so far | ||
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Miragee
8509 Posts
On March 26 2023 06:29 [Phantom] wrote: Here are some examples of what I mean Bottom UI (health, exp, mana etc) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/YUC1bXY.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Y6ZaQx4.jpg) Dialogs: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/7IgqLF0.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/lgF2Vh5.jpg) Inventory: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/demonhunter1-1024x609.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Icb8HV6.jpg) Right of the bat a few things stand out: 1.-The place where your health/mana and abilities are is MUCH better in D3. It is way pretier, more cohesive,a and fits better with the world. The D4 UI on PC is floating for whatever reason, the icons are dull and harder to make out, it's much more "cramped" and has to rely on things "floating" above other UI elements for them to fit (like the potion, dodge and Town Portal Indicators). 2.-D3 minimap is much bigger, displays more information and the info is also easier to see to due the use of colors. 3.-The Dialog and the way they are presented are MUCH better in D3 as well. 4.-The Equipment and selling UI is similar, but the D3 one stands out with the decoration at the top and use of color, whereas the D4 one is jsut grey and generic. I know people wanted a "darker" game but I think they went too far in some areas. And again, jsut the gameplay, say what you want about D3 but it's very fluid. I guess it's up to taste then. In every comparison you posted I like the D4 one much better. 1. For me it's way pretier in D4, about as cohesive and fits much better with the world. Well, I guess both fit with their respective worlds because D3's has cartoon graphics so the UI fits that. I don't like it. The only thing I don't like about the bottom bar in D4 is the keybinding below the bar. 2. Fair but I would prefer an overlay map like in D2, PoE etc. The compass sucks in both cases. 3. How's the dialogue better in D3? The way it is written? I can't remember but I doubt it was any good. It's not good in D4, either, but the voice acting is mostly great. The decoration around the dialogue windows and pop-ups is much better than in D3 because there are barely any decorations. 4. Inventory looks to me like a copy from WoW and I don't like it at all. Still not too keen in D4 but it's a great improvement over D3. //edit: Looking at it again, I like the structure of the equiped items better in D3. Having them structured around the body with a drawing is nice. All in all D3 looks more like Torchlight than Diablo tbh. I would agree that they used too much grey and subdued colours in the world to make it dark. However, the UI is fine like this imho. It doesn't need to be colourful. A range of greys is fine, as long as it has ornaments, textures to make it look gritty and is clean to look at and all of those three things is true for D4, at least for me. On March 26 2023 09:07 andrewlt wrote: I've played 2 characters so far and I haven't seen a reason to not get the enhancement and one of the upgrades before sinking 5 points to any skill. The skill UI is just awful. It defaults to using up 40% of the screen space on a PC, which isn't enough to convey meaningful information without a lot of scrolling around. I need to open it to full screen, but it doesn't take advantage of my monitor's widescreen and still requires a lot of scrolling around. I think this is a very fair criticism of the UI. It's super annoying to scroll around in the skill tree. It's realitively small, yet you can barely zoom out. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417163642019119125/1089420818225823814/image.png) +3 Max Skele mages with a bunch of buffs and shadow support destroyed Ashava. Surprisingly the summons didn't die much since I had 1 value point in Skele priest heals 20%. Seems like a decent bosser build for Necro I'm not sure if the legendary affix 'skill's deal more damage based on fullness of primary resource' works on minions. They are a "skill" but feels weird if it would work. Otherwise I used disembowel, blight, and the shadow passives to buff my minions. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria818 Posts
70 euro for standard edition is asking for way too much from Blizzard, Doom: Eternal (one of the best well made and optimised games in recent memory) cost less. I skipped Diablo 3 entirely, I've never played it as I didn't like how it looks like. I played a lot of Diablo 2: LoD as a kid. Now I'm trying Diablo 4, the game feels similar at times, but mostly different. I like that there is 'Space' to dodge attacks. Not being able to pick character's Strength/Dexterity/Health/Mana as before seems like dumbed down game. Some of sounds (e.g. items dropping) are from Diablo 2, a lot of spells are still from there. It's as if after 20 years or so they couldn't think of much. Some quests feel meaningless, the game feels like MMORPG on a smartphone app at times (I guess competition is that tough). Graphics is way better. It turns out D4 has cross-play (PC + PS), but D2: LoD doesn't, which is a shame those willing to play D2 more can't. :D So there you go, some positive and negative opinions from a D2 player. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
On March 26 2023 00:38 [Phantom] wrote: I've been playing this and honestly I think I like D3 better. Sacrilege I know. D3 has it's issues, but at least the Diablo 3 bette felt much more cohesive and polished. The D4 ui sucks. The D3 UI isn't only prettier, it's easier to understand, more intuitive and faster to access what you need to access. The game itself feels good to play, but can't help but feel d3 felt more fluid. The artstyle I'm not a fan of. Say what you want about D3 but it's art style was cool and unique (yeah yeah, it wasn't super dark, but it was cool). D4 looks like a generic game. You take a screenshot removing the health and mana balls and you wouldn't be able to tell which game it was. That being said, I'm still having fun. And there is A LOT of the game we can't acess yet. But still, D3 felt much more polished. We'll see the lategame skills and customization, itemization and events,. Overall I'd give the beta 7/10 whereas the D3 beta (basically half of the first act) I would give 9 out of 10. I think this is a pretty clear statement of what you mentioned multiple times. "You like D3". I think D4 is already better with the issues it has compared to whatever state you want to give me D3. D3 looks nothing like Diablo. Feels nothing like Diablo. Sounds nothing like Diablo and I'd even go as far as to say plays nothing like a Diablo game. At least not what I loved about 1/2. Diablo 4 doesn't either in some aspects since this is more Diablo ft. Lost Ark which is 100% what people should have expected (at least I for my part did) and I also believe this is the 100% right decision to make. Lost Ark should set the MMO/ARPG tone for the future. Slightly slower but more emphasis on bosses/dungeons/potential raids. Diablo 3 has no Diablo feeling at all. I played it and finished it on Inferno during release when you more or less had to skip any champion pack and I prefered that over now. Diablo 4 looks, sounds and plays like a Diablo imo. Immersion outside of some factors is there. There was a post about games being able to be colorful and still dark. I kind of disagree with this partly. We are in a snow wasteland / winter and often in ruins/dungeons. This area isn't supposed to be colorful. Its supposed to be dreadful. There can be very different coloring and art direction in different acts. Deserts, Jungle, Heaven / Hell etc. Obviously that person can only judge the beta content but for me the color palette is exactly what I would want from it at the area they are showing me. I would also dare say the world drastically looks different at night/daylight. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
D3 skill choices being transformative and/or creative is a relatively easy disagree on my part. the fun in the game is getting to your completed seasonal set with a frankenstein combo of equipment and skills. after your seasonal set is completed, you never look back. if you view the top 200 players in each ladder, people are mostly running the same 2 variations of a set and all the adjacent skills and transformations. sometimes some people force a weaker DPS set into higher ladder tiers through determination to do so. in other words, there is no reason to spend time on anything other than the top sets and combination of skill choices. i consider that an illusion of choice, which i view the D4 skill tree in equal measure. many of the skill choices in D4 (i have tried Druid in all styles and a bow Rogue) are not sensical and rely heavily on getting a lucky unique drop/aspect to make them stronger. what is good is the option to change skills on the fly, even in boss fights. i hope that they will do the obvious and add skill-choice presets to make this easier. it'd be very archaic to not have that. the reason why D3 is in that very same gameplay loop is in order to simplify it. they design the endgame to have a certain level of tankiness with scaling in the form of many different multipliers--to combat this you also have to have many multipliers. balancing the various sets, either by micro buffing/nerfing each of them comprises the entirety of the balancing. if you consider POE and D3, the difference in choice is closer to MTG (EDH) vs netdecking a meta 40 card deck. in D3 ladder, there are people who play the same character class, same build, same items, same skills every season. i'm sorry, but it is and will continue to be a giant numbers game. variety and choice flows through that. as for D3's art choices, same as D4, lacks atmosphere. i often say that there's a difference between something being good and memorable. it's not about the colour, saturation, or even tone of things, it's how everything fits together and has artistic intent. there are so far great environments in D4, but the music, the impact, and altogether execution is lacking. i really don't give a fuck about most of the things happening, and backtracking/fetch questing doesn't help that. nothing outside the scope of expectations there. it's nothing all too bad. ii'm going to be honest, the only bits of story i remember from D3, other than absolutely hating act 2 on a level more than D2's act 3, was that + Show Spoiler + diablo has offspring who then becomes the new diablo, deckard cain dies. as for the gameplay comparisons of the two, i really have nothing to write about for D4. it will feel fine, if not on the same level of D3's combat. they ported some ideas over from diablo: immortal's development. my hopes for this upcoming game was that it would at least be memorable. they'd try to tell a deep dark story, and as an adult self i'd still get to feel the impact of choices being made on the skill/character screen. don't think those hopes will be met and rather just look forward to a stable Hardcore experience to help force that impact for me--caring in every little stat choice and trying your best to clear without failure. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21685 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8653 Posts
On March 26 2023 19:55 TaKeTV wrote: I think this is a pretty clear statement of what you mentioned multiple times. "You like D3". I think D4 is already better with the issues it has compared to whatever state you want to give me D3. D3 looks nothing like Diablo. Feels nothing like Diablo. Sounds nothing like Diablo and I'd even go as far as to say plays nothing like a Diablo game. At least not what I loved about 1/2. Diablo 4 doesn't either in some aspects since this is more Diablo ft. Lost Ark which is 100% what people should have expected (at least I for my part did) and I also believe this is the 100% right decision to make. Lost Ark should set the MMO/ARPG tone for the future. Slightly slower but more emphasis on bosses/dungeons/potential raids. Diablo 3 has no Diablo feeling at all. I played it and finished it on Inferno during release when you more or less had to skip any champion pack and I prefered that over now. Diablo 4 looks, sounds and plays like a Diablo imo. Immersion outside of some factors is there. There was a post about games being able to be colorful and still dark. I kind of disagree with this partly. We are in a snow wasteland / winter and often in ruins/dungeons. This area isn't supposed to be colorful. Its supposed to be dreadful. There can be very different coloring and art direction in different acts. Deserts, Jungle, Heaven / Hell etc. Obviously that person can only judge the beta content but for me the color palette is exactly what I would want from it at the area they are showing me. I would also dare say the world drastically looks different at night/daylight. i think youre misunderstanding what the criticisms about the lack of colour is. diablo 2 is just as dark (aside from act 2) but has enough colour where all the elements of the landscape are still distinct. what the criticisms are asking for isnt bright rainbow colours like d3, rather distinctly recognisable landscape features amidst the dark and gritty landscape. the use of colour sets that apart, because without it everything becomes a bland dull background that only becomes distinct upon close attention. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21685 Posts
On March 26 2023 21:20 evilfatsh1t wrote: exactly.i think youre misunderstanding what the criticisms about the lack of colour is. diablo 2 is just as dark (aside from act 2) but has enough colour where all the elements of the landscape are still distinct. what the criticisms are asking for isnt bright rainbow colours like d3, rather distinctly recognisable landscape features amidst the dark and gritty landscape. the use of colour sets that apart, because without it everything becomes a bland dull background that only becomes distinct upon close attention. This has color. ![[image loading]](https://cdn.staticneo.com/p/2015/1/diablo2_expansion_image_Id33r.jpg) This is a drab blob ![[image loading]](https://play4.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Diablo-4-new-leaked-screenshots-4-1024x576.jpeg) | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8653 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17257 Posts
 Also, I don't really get the minimap in the corner. What happened to the togglable overlay? Much better in every way shape and form. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
On March 26 2023 21:30 Gorsameth wrote: exactly. This has color. This is a drab blob Might be preference then but I personally think the immersion and artstyle is way better in Diablo 4. Your screenshots just underline that for me. The very green trees are outstanding and don't really fit the general tone and landscape of ice. I think highlights should be fire, blood etc. If you so want sin-city of gaming. Pale, cold landscapes with some highlights. I feel the D4 screenshot (outside of obviously newer graphics) paints a way better portrait and mood. I guess this either comes down to your preference since neither is BAD ART but just the direction someone takes. If you are capable you can do a recoloring and compare again. Ill gladly change my mind but I think I'd hate the trees etc be more outstanding but obviously thats me. I like the artstyle a ton. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
![[image loading]](https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F16b38b33-8740-478f-8c44-0e1b25cd6f46.jpg?dpr=1&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=700) which would be fine but also sets a different mood/tone. I think D4 takes a tonalistic approach to the game which is why they choose this colorless palette. I do believe there will be a lot of varience through acts though. Have to wait and see | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17257 Posts
I guess a fairer comparison would be the same location in D2 and D2R (since D2R is tonally closer to D4). ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vrOnq63.png) ![[image loading]](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/042/147/205/large/gray-rogers-d2r-env-act5-mountaintop.jpg?1633694831) | ||
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Miragee
8509 Posts
On March 26 2023 21:30 Gorsameth wrote: exactly. This has color. This is a drab blob Damn I haven't played D2 in a while and didn't remember it looked that good. Regarding the discussion, I can see both sides. I obviously like D2's style but I also kind of agree with Naruto (I suppose it's you). In the snowy landscape it's not too bad in D4. I found the atmosphere to be quite good in the open world during my playtime as long as I was alone. It felt very cold, rough, dreadful and lonely. I suppose we have to see how D4's style translates into other biomes such as jungle, desert or hellscapes. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On March 26 2023 17:01 SC-Shield wrote: Not being able to pick character's Strength/Dexterity/Health/Mana as before seems like dumbed down game. Yeah that one seems rough to me, still only 4 stats but now you can't attribute any points other than with items, and only 6 skills available at a time instead of 16. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11508 Posts
On March 27 2023 00:57 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Yeah that one seems rough to me, still only 4 stats but now you can't attribute any points other than with items, and only 6 skills available at a time instead of 16. I don't know if that is a problem. Usually distributing attribute points is just a noob trap. There is almost always a "best" way to do it, and you can't really make decisions, only mistakes. Even in D2, distributing attribute points is rarely a decision. For example, for Sorc it is always "exactly enough strength for your gear, everything else in vit". Sure, you can do other things. They are just worse in every aspect. I generally dislike noob traps as a mechanic. Make decisions meaningful, don't just have a correct choice and many incorrect ones. | ||
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