After fifteen years of reluctance, Blizzard is finally forking WoW.
For those who don't know anything about WoW:
Blizzard is releasing a second version of WoW, alongside their live version, which has had seven expansions.
The second version is based on the old, un-expanded World of Warcraft from 2004-2007. It is likely, but not certain, that the base will be a modified 1.12 patch, which was the last (major?) patch before the 2.0 TBC patch.
Since this is a completely independent game from the main fork, I think it warrants its own thread.
A very limited beta version will go live today, and those who own a Blizzcon virtual ticket will get to explore The Barrens as well as Westfall.
I will try to add any new information that comes out this weekend to the OP.
The old talent trees are up: https://classic.wowhead.com/ A little tidbit for us elderly, the URL thottbot.com leads to the same address.
Here's a little nostalgia, the old talent trees: + Show Spoiler +
Oh, and if anyone feels the need to tell us why we're wrong to be exited about this, please do so in a civil manner.
this is the best version of world of warcraft for those who like better overall balance and cohesion, arrays of choice to develop your character(s) and most importantly world pvp it is also playable elsewhere
On November 03 2018 00:25 ProMeTheus112 wrote: this is the best version of world of warcraft for those who like better overall balance and cohesion, arrays of choice to develop your character(s) and most importantly world pvp it is also playable elsewhere
Are you the c00lest 0ldsch00l playa eva? Or why are you blatantly lying? Starcraft Remastered is still miles under your quality control, am i right? How balanced does this look like?
On November 03 2018 00:25 ProMeTheus112 wrote: this is the best version of world of warcraft for those who like better overall balance and cohesion, arrays of choice to develop your character(s) and most importantly world pvp it is also playable elsewhere
Are you the c00lest 0ldsch00l playa eva? Or why are you blatantly lying?
I dunno about overall balance, but his other points are valid.
On November 03 2018 00:25 ProMeTheus112 wrote: this is the best version of world of warcraft for those who like better overall balance and cohesion, arrays of choice to develop your character(s) and most importantly world pvp it is also playable elsewhere
For community and world pvp this is a great but overall balance is kinda meh, no resilience stuff means that t3 characters can os a full pvp players and the lack of degressive offers no limit to control, this is the ridiculous shits that make vanilla funny and appealing for some but that's not balanced.
Yeah, calling the game in that state balanced is a bit rich. Even in PvE, some classes were straight up better than others. Every main tank was a warrior, and for most of the raiding game, the best DPS was usually a fury warrior on Alliance or an Arms warrior on Horde. The best healer was always a priest. Druids were straight up worse at everything.
I'm super exited about this game, but saying it was balanced is a stretch.
On November 03 2018 00:25 ProMeTheus112 wrote: this is the best version of world of warcraft for those who like better overall balance and cohesion, arrays of choice to develop your character(s) and most importantly world pvp it is also playable elsewhere
For community and world pvp this is a great but overall balance is kinda meh, no resilience stuff means that t3 characters can os a full pvp players and the lack of degressive offers no limit to control, this is the ridiculous shits that make vanilla funny and appealing for some but that's not balanced.
Like in he posted clear facts? Is that how easy it is? He is obviously crazy nostalgic, which taints his opinion "It was balanced".
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that. Its going to be like a Whack-A-Mole
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that
I think that's fine in a thread that is dedicated to Classic WoW.
Those of us who played on private servers know what we're getting into and will love the game in spite of its obvious flaws. Those of us who didn't are obviously looking at it through nostalgia goggles, but nostalgia is a legitimate reason to be exited about something. Let us have our fun.
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that. Its going to be like a Whack-A-Mole
more than you, it'll be our job to deal with unreasonable people, let us do it.
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that
I think that's fine in a thread that is dedicated to Classic WoW.
Those of us who played on private servers know what we're getting into and will love the game in spite of its obvious flaws. Those of us who didn't are obviously looking at it through nostalgia goggles, but nostalgia is a legitimate reason to be exited about something. Let us have our fun.
And while people are at it: Take a shit on retail and everyone playing retail. "SO DUMB(ED DOWN) IT HAS TO BE CHANGED!". Oh and its not "WoW classic" threads exclusive. People posted that shit in Morhaimes goodbye like crazy
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that
I think that's fine in a thread that is dedicated to Classic WoW.
Those of us who played on private servers know what we're getting into and will love the game in spite of its obvious flaws. Those of us who didn't are obviously looking at it through nostalgia goggles, but nostalgia is a legitimate reason to be exited about something. Let us have our fun.
And while people are at it: Take a shit on retail and everyone playing retail. "SO DUMB IT HAS TO BE CHANGED!".
wait until people actually start complaining in this thread, you're being more unreasonable than the people you're complaining about, and for the record I quite frankly enjoy bfa myself.
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that
I think that's fine in a thread that is dedicated to Classic WoW.
Those of us who played on private servers know what we're getting into and will love the game in spite of its obvious flaws. Those of us who didn't are obviously looking at it through nostalgia goggles, but nostalgia is a legitimate reason to be exited about something. Let us have our fun.
And while people are at it: Take a shit on retail and everyone playing retail. "SO DUMB(ED DOWN) IT HAS TO BE CHANGED!".
I do hope you'll find a more creative way to channel that anger.
Can we just agree that we each enjoy the version of the game we like without getting in each other's face? If those people do come, take it from someone who'd know, TL won't be shy about moderating them.
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that
I think that's fine in a thread that is dedicated to Classic WoW.
Those of us who played on private servers know what we're getting into and will love the game in spite of its obvious flaws. Those of us who didn't are obviously looking at it through nostalgia goggles, but nostalgia is a legitimate reason to be exited about something. Let us have our fun.
And while people are at it: Take a shit on retail and everyone playing retail. "SO DUMB IT HAS TO BE CHANGED!".
wait until people actually start complaining in this thread, you're being more unreasonable than the people you're complaining about, and for the record I quite frankly enjoy bfa myself.
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that
I think that's fine in a thread that is dedicated to Classic WoW.
Those of us who played on private servers know what we're getting into and will love the game in spite of its obvious flaws. Those of us who didn't are obviously looking at it through nostalgia goggles, but nostalgia is a legitimate reason to be exited about something. Let us have our fun.
And while people are at it: Take a shit on retail and everyone playing retail. "SO DUMB(ED DOWN) IT HAS TO BE CHANGED!".
I do hope you'll find a more creative way to channel that anger.
Can we just agree that we each enjoy the version of the game we like without getting in each other's face? If those people do come, take it from someone who'd know, TL won't be shy about moderating them.
So why are 0ldsch00l playa like prometheus not capable of saying that they like classic soooo much without saying "RETAIL IS TRASH!!!" Why is this always something they have to add? Again: This attitude is not Classic thread exclusive
On November 03 2018 00:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: look I get that he posted an opinion like its a fact but you really need to chill out man, there is zero need for you to go nuclear over it.
He is not going to be the only one doing that
I think that's fine in a thread that is dedicated to Classic WoW.
Those of us who played on private servers know what we're getting into and will love the game in spite of its obvious flaws. Those of us who didn't are obviously looking at it through nostalgia goggles, but nostalgia is a legitimate reason to be exited about something. Let us have our fun.
And while people are at it: Take a shit on retail and everyone playing retail. "SO DUMB IT HAS TO BE CHANGED!".
wait until people actually start complaining in this thread, you're being more unreasonable than the people you're complaining about, and for the record I quite frankly enjoy bfa myself.
Unreasonable on what?
why are you being so combative?why are you upset over other people opinion, do you have a problem with the fact that you enjoy retail?
did he say retail is trash? No, he didn't and don't give me bullshit of reading between lines, at which point you're only reading what you want to read and thats a far bigger problem when it comes to any discussion with you in this thread.
I've just started playing WoW a few months ago, so I'm excited to see what it was like back then. My older brother started playing around 2006 and he just laughs at me lol. Things I take for granted like the dungeon finder will be gone.
On November 03 2018 01:25 Cush wrote: I've just started playing WoW a few months ago, so I'm excited to see what it was like back then. My older brother started playing around 2006 and he just laughs at me lol. Things I take for granted like the dungeon finder will be gone.
It's even more subtle than that.
Yes, major features will be missing, but literally stuff nobody thinks about, like a 3 second mount cast time. Or having to manually dismount before you can gather a node. And then gathering the node doesn't happen in one swing, you have to hit it two to five times. And each swing takes 2.5 seconds.
So simply mining a large Thorium node takes around 30 seconds, but that's kind of exciting because you might find an Arcane Crystal, or someone might kill you and take the node from you.
I'm so excited for classic wow For me it's definitely not nostalgia, vanilla just still holds up on its own and is a distinctively different experience that i can't get in retail wow anymore
On November 03 2018 02:12 Unleashing wrote: I'm so excited for classic wow For me it's definitely not nostalgia, vanilla just still holds up on its own and is a distinctively different experience that i can't get in retail wow anymore
An experience that is a signifcant time sink really.
It might hold up on its own and sure its going to be fun for people who want that "distinctively different experience" whatever that may mean to each person. (unless you have something more specific in mind with that term)
But it was and will be a deeply deeply flawed game and I dont feel like I want to go back to it aside from some nostalgia shits and giggles. Atleast not in earnest. But I can see people who like that version and have been playing privates would enjoy it if they dont mind a slower game.
Not sure which class to roll though, I used to main a Druid but if I recall correctly they were really bad in classic: had to wear rogue gear if feral. Is innervate still in this patch, and if so, are caster druids mostly used to innervate the priest? It's been so long...
Druids are almost exclusively healers at end-game vanilla if you wanna play "optimally" They can DPS as feral but it's not great They can off-tank but it's also just not as good as warriors, biggest benefit being able to generate more threat Balance druid is more or less considered terrible
On November 14 2018 02:18 Unleashing wrote: Druids are almost exclusively healers at end-game vanilla if you wanna play "optimally" They can DPS as feral but it's not great They can off-tank but it's also just not as good as warriors, biggest benefit being able to generate more threat Balance druid is more or less considered terrible
It's been forever so maybe i forgot something
Druid in Classic exists for Mark of the Wild. They are the worst healer
On November 14 2018 04:49 ProMeTheus112 wrote: druid is one the strongest classes in classic 1vs1, all basic specs are good, don't forget end game is not just raids
This is sad because its true. There is nothing else but 1v1 and BG besides raid content. Well i guess farming herbs becomes endgame content as well then. Especially PvP is going to be fun when your realm has a heavy faction imbalance. Get ready for 2 hour queue. And then you are going to face a premade group
On November 14 2018 04:49 ProMeTheus112 wrote: druid is one the strongest classes in classic 1vs1, all basic specs are good, don't forget end game is not just raids
This is sad because its true. There is nothing else but 1v1 and BG besides raid content. Well i guess farming herbs becomes endgame content as well then. Especially PvP is going to be fun when your realm has a heavy faction imbalance. Get ready for 2 hour queue. And then you are going to face a premade group
personally i just do wpvp at endgame, much like during leveling, there is lot of room for character progression past 60 with outdoor objectives and items that you may buy (BoE) or craft or drop outdoors. Can't get the highest pvp rank (still can rank well) or raid gear that way but you don't really need it for wpvp, you can beat the high pvp ranked geared or raid geared without it (gets harder with later patches i think, still doable). Plus a lot of fighting in wpvp would be against players who aren't geared like that or even some levels below etc. including 1vsX...
On November 14 2018 02:16 TheDougler wrote: I'm excited.
Not sure which class to roll though, I used to main a Druid but if I recall correctly they were really bad in classic: had to wear rogue gear if feral. Is innervate still in this patch, and if so, are caster druids mostly used to innervate the priest? It's been so long...
I was a Druid as well and it was absolute pain. Don't do it again.
I remember my indignation when I, when I, as a teenager raiding MC, diligently gave my Innervates to Priests until I realised: "Wait a second, I'm a spirit based healer myself!".
Needless to say, I soon specced Feral as to not be entirely useless outside of raids and always gave the 'Innervate's on CD' excuse thereafter.
On November 14 2018 04:49 ProMeTheus112 wrote: druid is one the strongest classes in classic 1vs1, all basic specs are good, don't forget end game is not just raids
This is sad because its true. There is nothing else but 1v1 and BG besides raid content. Well i guess farming herbs becomes endgame content as well then. Especially PvP is going to be fun when your realm has a heavy faction imbalance. Get ready for 2 hour queue. And then you are going to face a premade group
Haha, the faction imbalance and resulting ques are something I remember VERY well.
I remember way back in the day waiting around warsong gulch for ages for a que. It was intense.
I might go Rogue. Scissors beats paper. Scissors also beats rock. Until rock hits 60 and becomes an unstoppable killing machine.
OH!!!
Question, how long does an Alertac Valley match last in this one?
On November 14 2018 02:18 Unleashing wrote: Druids are almost exclusively healers at end-game vanilla if you wanna play "optimally" They can DPS as feral but it's not great They can off-tank but it's also just not as good as warriors, biggest benefit being able to generate more threat Balance druid is more or less considered terrible
It's been forever so maybe i forgot something
From memory (but yeah, it's been forever :p) is that the main issue with Balance in Vanilla was that there was little to no leather spell power gear. We had a Balance druid on my server who managed to convince his guild to let him take cloth drops and he was terrifying in BGs. Hit like an absolute truck. Was pretty squishy even in Boomkin form though.
They had massive threat and mana issues though in PvE iirc.
On November 14 2018 04:49 ProMeTheus112 wrote: druid is one the strongest classes in classic 1vs1, all basic specs are good, don't forget end game is not just raids
This is sad because its true. There is nothing else but 1v1 and BG besides raid content. Well i guess farming herbs becomes endgame content as well then. Especially PvP is going to be fun when your realm has a heavy faction imbalance. Get ready for 2 hour queue. And then you are going to face a premade group
Haha, the faction imbalance and resulting ques are something I remember VERY well.
I remember way back in the day waiting around warsong gulch for ages for a que. It was intense.
I might go Rogue. Scissors beats paper. Scissors also beats rock. Until rock hits 60 and becomes an unstoppable killing machine.
Question, how long does an Alertac Valley match last in this one?
It depends on a lot of things and which version of the battleground is used. These days people min-max for honor & reputation per hour so you don't have the 10 hour games anymore. A premade can win in about 6 minutes by bypassing most of the NPCs / choke-points.
I think people underestimate how different a lot of things will be. AV is a good example, but in general I'm pretty confident classic now will play and feel grossly different than it did back in the day, and I still intend to play it. But basically, the skill/knowledge/etc of the avg player ESPECIALLY at level cap will be about 10000X higher.
I think it is much more reasonable to look at modern private servers, rather than think back to how it was back then to get an idea of what it will look like.
None of which is inherently bad, but I think a lot of peoples nostalgia based expectations will be disappointed. Not because of the game, but because of the huge difference in the player base now vs then.
I think that the difference between back in the day and now, is that the audience will be more mature (I don't see newcomers sticking to classic, it's too much grind and pain in the ass), but also more impatient. I mean, players that used to enjoy and spend nights on classic won't have that time anymore. Work, kids... So I really don't know what to expect from the new community that will rise from classic, but it will be something interesting for sure.
On November 14 2018 04:49 ProMeTheus112 wrote: druid is one the strongest classes in classic 1vs1, all basic specs are good, don't forget end game is not just raids
This is sad because its true. There is nothing else but 1v1 and BG besides raid content. Well i guess farming herbs becomes endgame content as well then. Especially PvP is going to be fun when your realm has a heavy faction imbalance. Get ready for 2 hour queue. And then you are going to face a premade group
Haha, the faction imbalance and resulting ques are something I remember VERY well.
I remember way back in the day waiting around warsong gulch for ages for a que. It was intense.
I might go Rogue. Scissors beats paper. Scissors also beats rock. Until rock hits 60 and becomes an unstoppable killing machine.
Question, how long does an Alertac Valley match last in this one?
It depends on a lot of things and which version of the battleground is used. These days people min-max for honor & reputation per hour so you don't have the 10 hour games anymore. A premade can win in about 6 minutes by bypassing most of the NPCs / choke-points.
Yeah, that was a bizzare experience for me, I assumed that was like a quirk in Modern WoW (Wrath up to BFA). I didn't think that would work in Classic.
On November 15 2018 18:27 Yosheekee wrote: I think that the difference between back in the day and now, is that the audience will be more mature (I don't see newcomers sticking to classic, it's too much grind and pain in the ass), but also more impatient. I mean, players that used to enjoy and spend nights on classic won't have that time anymore. Work, kids... So I really don't know what to expect from the new community that will rise from classic, but it will be something interesting for sure.
To me, I am excited for Classic, but one thing I might hate, is that I think Classic is going to feel unrewarding for me at level 60, because of the low loot per person and the itemization of equipment. So I might just be a tourist for a while.
Doing classic Scholo, DM, Strat or any pre-raid dungeon felt so epic. Gather ur party, journey to the instance, go DEEP in the dungeon and hope the group doesn’t disband. And MAYBE you’ll get that Elemental Hood you’ve been wanting forever that’s from an optional boss in the basement of Scholo T_T
Phase 3 Blackwing Lair Darkmoon Faire Darkmoon deck drops begin
Phase 4 Zul’Gurub Green Dragons
Phase 5 Ahn’Qiraj War Effort begins Ahn’Qiraj raids open when the war effort dictates Dungeon loot reconfiguration: Tier 0.5 Dungeon gear, Relics, drop rates and location changes
It will almost for sure have a beta. I follow it very closely since I've been making videos about it. It won't be a long beta though. The Classic WoW Demo at Blizzcon demonstrated a need for a beta.
On April 09 2019 16:10 Highwinds wrote: It will almost for sure have a beta. I follow it very closely since I've been making videos about it. It won't be a long beta though. The Classic WoW Demo at Blizzcon demonstrated a need for a beta.
Which one of the hundred desperate youtubers trying to squeeze a couple bucks out of the hype by making identical content are you?
I was super excited for this but then heard that the AV version will be the much-nerfed 1.12 so I'm on the fence whether I'll be going back to Classic.
Granted, I heard this news a few weeks ago so there could've updates in the interim I've missed.
In the third phase, we’ll introduce the first Battlegrounds: Alterac Valley (version 1.12) and Warsong Gulch, alongside with their associated vendors. One thing to note is that there were a couple of updates to these vendors over the course of the original patch releases, so some items won’t be available right away. For example, the Spell Penetration trinkets available from the Warsong Gulch vendor weren’t introduced until Patch 1.9, so we’re currently thinking that we’ll add these in phase 5.
Depending on the ratio of min/maxers to casuals, the old AV might not be recoverable at any rate.
Private servers that tried to recreate the old version of AV soon found that the players still ignored objectives and rushed the bosses after just a week or so.
With the recent PvP roadmap announced, I feel like it's a good move. Hardcore players will level to 60 in 5-6 days IRL time then not only they can acquire wealth (all the lotuses, thorium, devilsaur etc), if they can start serious PvP too, by the time most people reach 60 (around a month but this can vary greatly), the top will already be rank 4-6 and with optimized ranking, in around 3 months, the first batch of rank14's will start to roll out.
I think the most interesting period will be Phase 2 where there won't be any bgs but the honor system will already be in place. Maybe they have to introduce WSG in Phase 2 too, because I can already see groups of rankers just ganking high level zones for honor points. I mean why wouldn't they? People want to farm in high level zones, and in a busy server, you can get hundreds of HKs in these zones.
On April 09 2019 23:48 valaki wrote: Maybe they have to introduce WSG in Phase 2 too, because I can already see groups of rankers just ganking high level zones for honor points. I mean why wouldn't they? People want to farm in high level zones, and in a busy server, you can get hundreds of HKs in these zones.
That's my 60 endgame, i don't go into bgs or raids cause i'm just looking for wpvp so i go kill mobs gather stuff and hunt for players in high level zones^^ regardless of patch. Of course I do the same while leveling, too, don't rush leveling, get stronger and hunt for players. it can happen that a place gets too crowded, however having a good population ready to pvp or get pvp'ed is what makes the game for me. (I don't really want to go in instances in MMO)
Some of my fondest memories of wow classic are from world pvp in felwood. I farmed dark runes there and designatet it as my territory. You didn't find normal pvp'ers there. You did find a few raiders, like me, that needed runes that called for support and suddenly you had an open world pvp war between 2 pve guilds :D. Good times.
I never pvp'd around tm or other famous spots, but boy if i needed something and some ally was "stealing" my mobs.. It was on . That i was shadowpriest and my best mate WL also made this very enjoyable.
On April 09 2019 16:10 Highwinds wrote: It will almost for sure have a beta. I follow it very closely since I've been making videos about it. It won't be a long beta though. The Classic WoW Demo at Blizzcon demonstrated a need for a beta.
Which one of the hundred desperate youtubers trying to squeeze a couple bucks out of the hype by making identical content are you?
I wouldn't say I'm a desperate youtuber trying to squeeze money more a bored person who makes content about a game I love. But hey whatever makes you happy.
I will play this when it comes out, but I fear I've gotten too adjusted to fast gameplay & visual stimulants over the years to fall in love with that version of wow again.
I had a few friends who played WoW in high school and I never played retail myself but might give it a shot if I end up having the time. Seems like it might be really fun!
I would be all over TBC if that came, not that interested in classic, i am interested in "watching" it though. Seeing a 40 man raid with people not d/c every 30 seconds and such be nice. For me though TBC is where i fell in love with this game so for me i would be all over that.
On May 17 2019 20:15 Pandemona wrote: I would be all over TBC if that came, not that interested in classic, i am interested in "watching" it though. Seeing a 40 man raid with people not d/c every 30 seconds and such be nice. For me though TBC is where i fell in love with this game so for me i would be all over that.
Raids are going to be destroyed on their release day. KT was killed first day on Elysium (Nostalrius's successor). People have long figured out how to play Classic optimally thanks to the private server community.
I keep wavering back and forth between having no interest in this and wanting to play it on release for days on end. I got a few months to make up my mind I guess.
Yeah i don't mean the "world first race" or whatever, just watching a streamer i like kill it with his guild without having people D/C and awful pixelated videos and such.
On May 17 2019 20:15 Pandemona wrote: I would be all over TBC if that came, not that interested in classic, i am interested in "watching" it though. Seeing a 40 man raid with people not d/c every 30 seconds and such be nice. For me though TBC is where i fell in love with this game so for me i would be all over that.
Raids are going to be destroyed on their release day. KT was killed first day on Elysium (Nostalrius's successor). People have long figured out how to play Classic optimally thanks to the private server community.
Well people will for sure have a big leg up over how it was on release. But as it turns out, a lot of the information private servers have built their stats on have turned out to be wrong.
Mobs have abilities that they do not have on private servers and even resistances have been off on private servers. Not that I don't doubt that raids will be cracked open fast, but it'll be interesting to see just how fast.
On May 17 2019 21:22 Pandemona wrote: Yeah i don't mean the "world first race" or whatever, just watching a streamer i like kill it with his guild without having people D/C and awful pixelated videos and such.
Oh yeah the pixelated videos and don't forget the music, either hardcore metal or trance lol. I still have a bunch of them from my guild (that I'm still part of even though I don't play retail anymore).
On May 17 2019 20:15 Pandemona wrote: I would be all over TBC if that came, not that interested in classic, i am interested in "watching" it though. Seeing a 40 man raid with people not d/c every 30 seconds and such be nice. For me though TBC is where i fell in love with this game so for me i would be all over that.
Raids are going to be destroyed on their release day. KT was killed first day on Elysium (Nostalrius's successor). People have long figured out how to play Classic optimally thanks to the private server community.
Well people will for sure have a big leg up over how it was on release. But as it turns out, a lot of the information private servers have built their stats on have turned out to be wrong.
Mobs have abilities that they do not have on private servers and even resistances have been off on private servers. Not that I don't doubt that raids will be cracked open fast, but it'll be interesting to see just how fast.
While that might be true, people have a much better understanding of gearing, consumables and buffs. Even the fact that virtually every single guild on Nostalrius prepared Onyxia buff + ZG buff and even picking up Felwood Songflowers and Dire Maul buffs for every single raid means that the sheer performance spike from these factors alone will result in a huge difference from 2006 standards.
As main tank of my Nost/Elysium guild I sometimes went into Blackwing Lair with 11k HP haha
On May 17 2019 21:22 Pandemona wrote: Yeah i don't mean the "world first race" or whatever, just watching a streamer i like kill it with his guild without having people D/C and awful pixelated videos and such.
Oh yeah the pixelated videos and don't forget the music, either hardcore metal or trance lol. I still have a bunch of them from my guild (that I'm still part of even though I don't play retail anymore).
On May 17 2019 20:15 Pandemona wrote: I would be all over TBC if that came, not that interested in classic, i am interested in "watching" it though. Seeing a 40 man raid with people not d/c every 30 seconds and such be nice. For me though TBC is where i fell in love with this game so for me i would be all over that.
Raids are going to be destroyed on their release day. KT was killed first day on Elysium (Nostalrius's successor). People have long figured out how to play Classic optimally thanks to the private server community.
Well people will for sure have a big leg up over how it was on release. But as it turns out, a lot of the information private servers have built their stats on have turned out to be wrong.
Mobs have abilities that they do not have on private servers and even resistances have been off on private servers. Not that I don't doubt that raids will be cracked open fast, but it'll be interesting to see just how fast.
While that might be true, people have a much better understanding of gearing, consumables and buffs. Even the fact that virtually every single guild on Nostalrius prepared Onyxia buff + ZG buff and even picking up Felwood Songflowers and Dire Maul buffs for every single raid means that the sheer performance spike from these factors alone will result in a huge difference from 2006 standards.
As main tank of my Nost/Elysium guild I sometimes went into Blackwing Lair with 11k HP haha
You think high end guilds didn't grab every single available bufr in retail? I can tell you from personal experience that you couldn't be more wrong, if anything they did even more than now.
On May 17 2019 21:22 Pandemona wrote: Yeah i don't mean the "world first race" or whatever, just watching a streamer i like kill it with his guild without having people D/C and awful pixelated videos and such.
Oh yeah the pixelated videos and don't forget the music, either hardcore metal or trance lol. I still have a bunch of them from my guild (that I'm still part of even though I don't play retail anymore).
On May 17 2019 20:15 Pandemona wrote: I would be all over TBC if that came, not that interested in classic, i am interested in "watching" it though. Seeing a 40 man raid with people not d/c every 30 seconds and such be nice. For me though TBC is where i fell in love with this game so for me i would be all over that.
Raids are going to be destroyed on their release day. KT was killed first day on Elysium (Nostalrius's successor). People have long figured out how to play Classic optimally thanks to the private server community.
Well people will for sure have a big leg up over how it was on release. But as it turns out, a lot of the information private servers have built their stats on have turned out to be wrong.
Mobs have abilities that they do not have on private servers and even resistances have been off on private servers. Not that I don't doubt that raids will be cracked open fast, but it'll be interesting to see just how fast.
While that might be true, people have a much better understanding of gearing, consumables and buffs. Even the fact that virtually every single guild on Nostalrius prepared Onyxia buff + ZG buff and even picking up Felwood Songflowers and Dire Maul buffs for every single raid means that the sheer performance spike from these factors alone will result in a huge difference from 2006 standards.
As main tank of my Nost/Elysium guild I sometimes went into Blackwing Lair with 11k HP haha
On May 17 2019 21:22 Pandemona wrote: Yeah i don't mean the "world first race" or whatever, just watching a streamer i like kill it with his guild without having people D/C and awful pixelated videos and such.
Oh yeah the pixelated videos and don't forget the music, either hardcore metal or trance lol. I still have a bunch of them from my guild (that I'm still part of even though I don't play retail anymore).
On May 17 2019 22:12 Unleashing wrote:
On May 17 2019 20:59 IntoTheEmo wrote:
On May 17 2019 20:15 Pandemona wrote: I would be all over TBC if that came, not that interested in classic, i am interested in "watching" it though. Seeing a 40 man raid with people not d/c every 30 seconds and such be nice. For me though TBC is where i fell in love with this game so for me i would be all over that.
Raids are going to be destroyed on their release day. KT was killed first day on Elysium (Nostalrius's successor). People have long figured out how to play Classic optimally thanks to the private server community.
Well people will for sure have a big leg up over how it was on release. But as it turns out, a lot of the information private servers have built their stats on have turned out to be wrong.
Mobs have abilities that they do not have on private servers and even resistances have been off on private servers. Not that I don't doubt that raids will be cracked open fast, but it'll be interesting to see just how fast.
While that might be true, people have a much better understanding of gearing, consumables and buffs. Even the fact that virtually every single guild on Nostalrius prepared Onyxia buff + ZG buff and even picking up Felwood Songflowers and Dire Maul buffs for every single raid means that the sheer performance spike from these factors alone will result in a huge difference from 2006 standards.
As main tank of my Nost/Elysium guild I sometimes went into Blackwing Lair with 11k HP haha
You think high end guilds didn't grab every single available bufr in retail? I can tell you from personal experience that you couldn't be more wrong, if anything they did even more than now.
Wouldn't be surprised if they did, but my 11/15 Naxx guild didn't bother. Not sure if that's sufficiently "high end", but that 1% playerbase stat that's waved around probably deems that at least respectable?
In any case, point is that every guild is almost guaranteed to utilise these options now, which will push the overall standard significantly higher. That's not even mentioning how Classic's boss mechanics kinda pale in comparison to those of modern MMOs in terms of complexity. But they don't have to be, cause I welcome the return of accountability, among other things.
The mechanics are certainly less elaborate, but I’d wager some of the margins for error are just as challenging or even more so than the new game, especially in AQ and Naxx.
On May 18 2019 05:13 farvacola wrote: The mechanics are certainly less elaborate, but I’d wager some of the margins for error are just as challenging or even more so than the new game, especially in AQ and Naxx.
Yeah but alot of that was because you would often struggle with resource limitations. Figuring out how to optimize around that was the hardest part.
That and the fact that gathering enough people of adequate skill, spatial awareness and understanding was the other challenge because alot of cases even the stronger guilds had one half carrying the other half to varying degrees. I dont expect that to be the case anymore. At least at the higher levels.
I just think any challenges will mostly be finding the time to gather the resources/gear to optimize. Not necessarily knowing how to accomplish the tasks whether its boss encounters or what needs to be done. That will get figured out pretty quick.
Lets be honest, the pace of the game back then was obnoxiously slow and you really need to sink some time in. I doubt most people will be racing to derive enjoyment from the end game. But rather the process of going through the leveling experience and all that came with it in terms of population and vibrance community yaadaa yadaa. But I aint got time for that.
Not the destination but journey insert cliche etc etc...
On May 18 2019 06:52 farvacola wrote: Yeah I think that all sounds right, but for some reason, I still kinda wanna play lol
And you should. Even though I've played other MMOs since quitting retail WoW, I've found that I still prefer a levelling experience with progressive zones that's tied together with a decent narrative. Because even though I've been through the zones countless times now, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be the same routine each time when it comes to Classic WoW.
Stranglethorn Vale is the best example of this. It was a dangerous enough place on US-Blackrock, but then I had the pleasure of participating in the 24/7 warzone that was Nostalrius and its 15k peak pop. Using stealth (sneaking, not the Rogue mechanic), surveying places of interest before committing, and taking advantage of my faction's temporary control of an area to quest all in the name of avoiding ganks made it an extremely unique zone for me. It trumps actual content that's designed around that concept such as TERA's old Alliance system and Guild Wars 2's World vs World mode.
Ah I miss the days when I would raid in MC: lightning bolt 7 times, go oom, then play with CT raid frames while keeping totems up the rest of the fight.
Not but really. PvP was fun af. I grinded to Champion (rank 10), mostly AB (I LOVED AB) and world pvp. At the time I had a gf, part-time job and was a full-time student. I wonder now if I have what it takes to grind HWL (single, full-time job, no life) xD
On May 18 2019 09:49 Emnjay808 wrote: Ah I miss the days when I would raid in MC: lightning bolt 7 times, go oom, then play with CT raid frames while keeping totems up the rest of the fight.
Not but really. PvP was fun af. I grinded to Champion (rank 10), mostly AB (I LOVED AB) and world pvp. At the time I had a gf, part-time job and was a full-time student. I wonder now if I have what it takes to grind HWL (single, full-time job, no life) xD
We ground HWL on a Feral and we had 3 people in 2 timezones running it non stop in premades. It was rank 3 EU at one point when they used to have that PVP leaderboard.
On May 18 2019 09:49 Emnjay808 wrote: Ah I miss the days when I would raid in MC: lightning bolt 7 times, go oom, then play with CT raid frames while keeping totems up the rest of the fight.
Not but really. PvP was fun af. I grinded to Champion (rank 10), mostly AB (I LOVED AB) and world pvp. At the time I had a gf, part-time job and was a full-time student. I wonder now if I have what it takes to grind HWL (single, full-time job, no life) xD
We ground HWL on a Feral and we had 3 people in 2 timezones running it non stop in premades. It was rank 3 EU at one point when they used to have that PVP leaderboard.
I grinded to Field Madshal on my Mage, when it was based purely on the amount of time you could spend, but even back then, shortly after I finished people started agreeing on certain thresholds so guys wouldn't kill themselves having to play 24/7. We've now come to know these as honor "brackets".
I suspect it will exist in official Classic as well if the community is organised enough.
Well i think people got annoyed cuz streamers like Sodapoppin for example are spouting off that "wow these mobs are hitting harder than they are on private servers" or following it up an hour later with "wow the scaling of damage is defo wrong, but im sure blizzard will fix it, these mobs didnt hit this hard back in the day" etc so im guessing someone did some proper testing xD
Meaningless debate i agree, but just annoying with the vanilla elitists spout shit like Soda did xD
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
I don't understand how you could not only not care about it but assume that others don't either. It's a pretty big deal if a range of mobs from starting zone dudes to level 40 elites hit for less than half of what they used to with no explanation.
---
Well i think people got annoyed cuz streamers like Sodapoppin for example are spouting off that "wow these mobs are hitting harder than they are on private servers"
Actually the opposite, some examples in the thread are from popular streamers roflstomping early level dungeons with pulls that shouldn't have been viable. People went back and found videos of that content being done in actual vanilla to see bosses consistently doing twice as much damage etc.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
I don't understand how you could not only not care about it but assume that others don't either. It's a pretty big deal if a range of mobs from starting zone dudes to level 40 elites hit for less than half of what they used to with no explanation.
Its actually a pretty straightforward concept. I dont care because frankly I dont mind if the game speeds a up a bit at a certain level involving certain mobs I couldnt give a fuck. People back then didnt, and since this all about recreating the "classic" experience I can promise you no one was going around theorycrafting the damage taken from mobs at a certain level and that too in a beta at level 6 or 7 or whatever .
At some point you have to let some things go and just enjoy the game. If thats to hard for you and this sort of hypercritical analysis is what floats your boat. Then yeah man, you and all those who have enough time on their hands to do this sort of investigation keep at it. Good for you. Meanwhile the rest of the world will just enjoy the game.
Im pretty sure im going to use this as something to dabble for a few minutes here and there or maybe if I have a free day with nothing planned. And if stuff hits for half. Fine by me. Heck if it means I have to spend less time eating between mobs is probably enough of QOL improvement that doesnt impinge to much on the gameplay for me to let it go.
I tried watching some of those streamers several times today and each time within 2 minutes I was yawning out.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
I don't understand how you could not only not care about it but assume that others don't either. It's a pretty big deal if a range of mobs from starting zone dudes to level 40 elites hit for less than half of what they used to with no explanation.
Well i think people got annoyed cuz streamers like Sodapoppin for example are spouting off that "wow these mobs are hitting harder than they are on private servers"
Actually the opposite, some examples in the thread are from popular streamers roflstomping early level dungeons with pulls that shouldn't have been viable. People went back and found videos of that content being done in actual vanilla to see bosses consistently doing twice as much damage etc.
The thing I always bring up is that we know way more about the game now than we did in vanilla. People make better gear choices, talent choices, use of resources, etc.
Damage did not seem out there for us, and pulling big was a problem in the 2 dungeons I did today.
Everyone is going to nitpick something, but a lot of the 'high profile' streamers about classic played on private servers and are taking a lot of their analysis from that, which clearly isn't exact compared to what vanilla was (see some streamers had no idea that a bunch of graveyards did not exist in early vanilla that exist in private servers).
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
I don't understand how you could not only not care about it but assume that others don't either. It's a pretty big deal if a range of mobs from starting zone dudes to level 40 elites hit for less than half of what they used to with no explanation.
---
Well i think people got annoyed cuz streamers like Sodapoppin for example are spouting off that "wow these mobs are hitting harder than they are on private servers"
Actually the opposite, some examples in the thread are from popular streamers roflstomping early level dungeons with pulls that shouldn't have been viable. People went back and found videos of that content being done in actual vanilla to see bosses consistently doing twice as much damage etc.
The thing I always bring up is that we know way more about the game now than we did in vanilla. People make better gear choices, talent choices, use of resources, etc.
Everyone is going to nitpick something, but a lot of the 'high profile' streamers about classic played on private servers and are taking a lot of their analysis from that, which clearly isn't exact compared to what vanilla was (see some streamers had no idea that a bunch of graveyards did not exist in early vanilla that exist in private servers).
Which is exactly why it's so important that we're citing hard evidence from actual vanilla which show the same enemies hitting twice as hard against similar targets.
Did you look at the data? One of the biggest examples: Something must be wrong for a level 7 tiger on the echo isles to hit this level 8 troll hunter for 1-3 damage instead of the 5-8 that was recorded in a speedrun on the actual classic servers and on several other pre-cataclysm videos. That's a threefold difference in average damage.
A difference in gear doesn't explain it, talents don't even exist yet, there's no smarter way to stand there and autoattack a mob so there is clearly some missing factor that needs an explanation. There's even an official beast guide from back in the day that lists the unmitigated damage range as 6-9.
I am on classic playing right now, and have no issue with how the damage has been so far.
In westfall boars still charge hit me for 60-70 damage when they were equal level.
Defias mobs hit for 25-35 per melee, casters hit for 70.
In VC tank gets hit for ~10-15% of his life per elite hit.
In redridge mobs 4-5 levels higher are doing 80-100 damage per hit (critting for ~150-180). I only have 600 life, I dont see the issue. These damage issues will get sorted out as blizzard gets all the data from the server vs what they should have expected.
I don't get the nit picky 'THIS ONE MOB IS WRONG BLIZZARD IS TERRIBLE' you are going on about. Some level 7 mob has the wrong damage value for some reason, the whole vanilla people go berserk. The entire reason for this beta is to fix this stuff and you're sitting here making it seem like its the end of the world that some level 7 mob hit you for a wrong damage value.
I love how vastly superior this is to BFA. Watching people playing Classic has made it really obvious all the ways "modern wow" went wrong. This is all just so fascinating. I have absolutely zero intention of continuing to play BFA once classic is released.
I don't get the nit picky 'THIS ONE MOB IS WRONG BLIZZARD IS TERRIBLE' you are going on about.
That's not what i said.
I brought up the issue that was being discussed on forums and similar places outside of TL; some people dismissed it without seeming to understand or look into it at all. I backed it up some more because there is enough data to make it clear that something is screwy and it's interesting as to what it is and why.
It's a beta, we're here to talk about quirks in the game that aren't working quite properly. Why spin a casual observation/discussion into an "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" criticism of the game? If you don't care about the game why are you here replying to the posts of people that are discussing it just to tell them that? It's not adding anything at all to the conversation and it's taking things away with inflammation for no good reason.
I don't get the nit picky 'THIS ONE MOB IS WRONG BLIZZARD IS TERRIBLE' you are going on about.
That's not what i said.
I brought up the issue that was being discussed on forums and similar places outside of TL; some people dismissed it without seeming to understand or look into it at all. I backed it up some more because there is enough data to make it clear that something is screwy and it's interesting as to what it is and why.
It's a beta, we're here to talk about quirks in the game that aren't working quite properly. Why spin a casual observation/discussion into an "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" criticism of the game? If you don't care about the game why are you here replying to the posts of people that are discussing it just to tell them that? It's not adding anything at all to the conversation and it's taking things away with inflammation for no good reason.
Really confusing last page of posts here.
No you said this.. which is close enough..
On May 19 2019 05:52 Cyro wrote:
I don't understand how you could not only not care about it but assume that others don't either. It's a pretty big deal if a range of mobs from starting zone dudes to level 40 elites hit for less than half of what they used to with no explanation.
.
And none of us said we didnt care about the game either, granted I dont care alot, but thats not the same as not caring. I said I dont care about this particular issue and if anything I dont even mind it.
The other point being that the bugs you found if bugs at all, are hardly a big deal worthy of a discussion Your evidence is a few you tube videos of streamers operating with 1 mob type a ta low level with a before and after of damage values. Its not interesting. its just a report and move on type of find.
Your first and subsequent post on the subject made it sound like there are some game breaking ramifications that merit some discussion, which in my opinion it isnt. Let agree we are here to talk about the quirks in the game, whatever that means.
I offered to humor you by suggesting that it didnt merit a discussion and my opinion on it. Almost veryone else on this board so far has decided to ignore it. I acknowledge my mistake. So will I.
A person actively playing the beta has reported to you that his experience differs from the implications you are raising. But he can speak for his position himself. Id rather not say.
And so you are deciding to get butthurt when no one agrees that its a big deal except your buddies on whatever internet board that discussion is on and that the ones who did offer a response dont give a shit.
There is nothing confusing here. Everything is crystal clear to me. This is the last I am willing to offer this subject, I am not interested in your issues. Thank you.
I don't get the nit picky 'THIS ONE MOB IS WRONG BLIZZARD IS TERRIBLE' you are going on about.
That's not what i said.
I brought up the issue that was being discussed on forums and similar places outside of TL; some people dismissed it without seeming to understand or look into it at all. I backed it up some more because there is enough data to make it clear that something is screwy and it's interesting as to what it is and why.
It's a beta, we're here to talk about quirks in the game that aren't working quite properly. Why spin a casual observation/discussion into an "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" criticism of the game? If you don't care about the game why are you here replying to the posts of people that are discussing it just to tell them that? It's not adding anything at all to the conversation and it's taking things away with inflammation for no good reason.
Really confusing last page of posts here.
The issue you raised is one that the players themselves don't specifically need to address. Blizzard will get a large amount of raw data that we couldn't possibly give them individually just by playing on the beta and leveling. They will have combat data from tens of thousands of people regarding damage values and combat times. They will be able to find these anomalies better than any of us will ever be able to. Us making discussion regarding some specific mob that maybe at most 10-15% of the entire classic population will ever encounter is not worth our time.
If it becomes a more regular thing as we level and see more things like this, then it may be a thing to regard to blizzard. But it is something blizzard is very likely aware of and already had planned to look at (damage values in beta vs expected damage values).
By in large the beta has been good so far, its just as tedious as it was in vanilla. Nearly all the damage values I have run into felt in line with what I should expect. And with more experience regarding wow compared to the first time I played vanilla it has been easier than the first time.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Players getting better has nothing to do with the world being easier or not (silly argument to be honest, it is one that is repeated ad nauseum like MMOs didn't exist before WoW, maybe you were a noob back then, not everyone was).
I didn't say vanilla was ever hard, or if that was a point of contention, but if your character can't deal with 2-3 mobs at the same time efficiently is not about "skill", just about raw numbers.
The danger comes from other players being able to kill you easily if you are engaged. The danger comes from having to rest often. The danger comes from pulling more than what you can deal with. And that relies on how much damage can the mobs dish out and sustain entirely, which was what Rebs was saying "was not worth it to investigate or even better if it was faster". Whatever else you are answering to, is a product of your imagination.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Players getting better has nothing to do with the world being easier or not (silly argument to be honest, it is one that is repeated ad nauseum like MMOs didn't exist before WoW, maybe you were a noob back then, not everyone was).
I didn't say vanilla was ever hard, or if that was a point of contention, but if your character can't deal with 2-3 mobs at the same time efficiently is not about "skill", just about raw numbers.
The danger comes from other players being able to kill you easily if you are engaged. The danger comes from having to rest often. The danger comes from pulling more than what you can deal with. And that relies on how much damage can the mobs dish out and sustain entirely, which was what Rebs was saying "was not worth it to investigate or even better if it was faster". Whatever else you are answering to, is a product of your imagination.
Actually if you are saying that a character is unable to deal with 2-3 mobs and able to deal with 1.
That automatically makes things more difficult no ? What would you call a situation where handling t one mob and harder against 2-3 is a more "threatening" (whatever the reason might be, in your case "damage") . I would call that an increase in difficulty. What would you call it ? Yeah ...
So his assumption that you are making the claim that the game was harder is fair. So I would stop with the act of trying to be clever with semantics. You know what you meant and when he called it out you left yourself a convenient dodge.
And my point of contention had nothing to do with the danger in the world and whether it mattered or not. That is an extension you created all on your own because you also seem to be worried that cats on an island had a lower damage value. When none of the other evidence suggests there is a consistent problem with damage values.
My contention is that it is a completely isolated case and suggesting based on the evidence that this was a wide spread phenomenon was a meaningless exercise. It is not a player problem to solve. The post is literally "a tiger on an island is doing the wrong damage, we must scour the world to check for incorrect damage values based on this."
And unlike you, I actually read the thread fully and concluded it was not worth the exercise.
Can you in good faith say that you read the thread he linked properly before disagreeing with me ? Yeah. Think about that.
And if people want to investigate, go ahead. I didnt once say that people arent free to exercise their god given right to pursue what to me "felt" like a meaningless activity.
The bottom line is its a report and move on observation not a "we must investigate, blizzard might be cheating us investigation."
The better if faster was simply my personal opinion. Try pulling more aggressively with halved damage values in Vanilla. I can assure you the dangers you are alluding to would be ever present. You and your pro ass would be in just as much danger from the "world".
But the fact is that you are being a bit if an elitist turd if you think that it was just raw numbers that made the world more difficult back then. I promise you I can breeze through Vanilla content now without a single one of the hiccups that I had to face back then.Simply because I know and remember enough to optimize my gameplay around the numbers that doexist.
All it really does is make it slower. I understand the numbers enough to know when to disengage if I make a mistake, I understand what content is better served in groups and how to find them, what order to follow it. We know and understand all of the numbers pretty well now so playing around them is simply a matter of speed. Not difficulty. The danger from the world is about as high as trying to do a WQ with warmode on in BFA. Its just that NPC's form a smaller part of that particular conversation.
And granted there will be plenty of them this time around aswell. But with all the content sharing going on I doubt it will be that much of a thing as it was.
And its rather elitist to suggest that most people back then werent noobs or at the very least knew where things were, how to handle them and how to get around the world.
So not only is it a bullshit argument it is the sort of elitist statement+ Show Spoiler +
(that you have no real grounds for making given we have no evidence of what skills or knowledge you possesed back then
) that firmly belongs back up your ass which is where it appears it came from.
Opinion: Blizzard should be legally liable for the emotional pain I feel needing to wait 3 months for classic. It isn't humane and they have the ability to just release it now. Millions of people are suffering.
It's ridiculous to imply that blizzard is cheating us because of damage bugs in a beta. It's a beta! The release is like 3 months out and it will more than likely be diagnosed and fixed long before then.. possible causes are stuff like the shaman totem buffs getting stuck on players invisibly. It's nothing to be upset or angry about.
On May 23 2019 03:09 Pandemona wrote: Oh shit i got beta access nice, downloading now. Guess a lot more ppl are getting in now?
Stress test later tonight so I think a massive wave of people got the stress test part of it. Its from 4-6pm PDT and everyone can level up to 5. Its to test their layering system (or see how much they need) to make the launch of classic not completely insane.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Players getting better has nothing to do with the world being easier or not (silly argument to be honest, it is one that is repeated ad nauseum like MMOs didn't exist before WoW, maybe you were a noob back then, not everyone was).
I didn't say vanilla was ever hard, or if that was a point of contention, but if your character can't deal with 2-3 mobs at the same time efficiently is not about "skill", just about raw numbers.
The danger comes from other players being able to kill you easily if you are engaged. The danger comes from having to rest often. The danger comes from pulling more than what you can deal with. And that relies on how much damage can the mobs dish out and sustain entirely, which was what Rebs was saying "was not worth it to investigate or even better if it was faster". Whatever else you are answering to, is a product of your imagination.
Actually if you are saying that a character is unable to deal with 2-3 mobs and able to deal with 1.
That automatically makes things more difficult no ? What would you call a situation where handling t one mob and harder against 2-3 is a more "threatening" (whatever the reason might be, in your case "damage") . I would call that an increase in difficulty. What would you call it ? Yeah ...
So his assumption that you are making the claim that the game was harder is fair. So I would stop with the act of trying to be clever with semantics. You know what you meant and when he called it out you left yourself a convenient dodge.
And my point of contention had nothing to do with the danger in the world and whether it mattered or not. That is an extension you created all on your own because you also seem to be worried that cats on an island had a lower damage value. When none of the other evidence suggests there is a consistent problem with damage values.
My contention is that it is a completely isolated case and suggesting based on the evidence that this was a wide spread phenomenon was a meaningless exercise. It is not a player problem to solve. The post is literally "a tiger on an island is doing the wrong damage, we must scour the world to check for incorrect damage values based on this."
And unlike you, I actually read the thread fully and concluded it was not worth the exercise.
Can you in good faith say that you read the thread he linked properly before disagreeing with me ? Yeah. Think about that.
And if people want to investigate, go ahead. I didnt once say that people arent free to exercise their god given right to pursue what to me "felt" like a meaningless activity.
The bottom line is its a report and move on observation not a "we must investigate, blizzard might be cheating us investigation."
The better if faster was simply my personal opinion. Try pulling more aggressively with halved damage values in Vanilla. I can assure you the dangers you are alluding to would be ever present. You and your pro ass would be in just as much danger from the "world".
But the fact is that you are being a bit if an elitist turd if you think that it was just raw numbers that made the world more difficult back then. I promise you I can breeze through Vanilla content now without a single one of the hiccups that I had to face back then.Simply because I know and remember enough to optimize my gameplay around the numbers that doexist.
All it really does is make it slower. I understand the numbers enough to know when to disengage if I make a mistake, I understand what content is better served in groups and how to find them, what order to follow it. We know and understand all of the numbers pretty well now so playing around them is simply a matter of speed. Not difficulty. The danger from the world is about as high as trying to do a WQ with warmode on in BFA. Its just that NPC's form a smaller part of that particular conversation.
And granted there will be plenty of them this time around aswell. But with all the content sharing going on I doubt it will be that much of a thing as it was.
And its rather elitist to suggest that most people back then werent noobs or at the very least knew where things were, how to handle them and how to get around the world.
So not only is it a bullshit argument it is the sort of elitist statement+ Show Spoiler +
(that you have no real grounds for making given we have no evidence of what skills or knowledge you possesed back then
) that firmly belongs back up your ass which is where it appears it came from.
You are reading shit into what i wrote that i did not. It's simple, you are trying to paint me as some hardcore vanilla defender that attempts to get the classic edition with a purity seal. Let me dispel that for you, i am not. At this point i don't really care how the game ends up.
Where did i say that not being able to farm efficiently 2-3 mobs at the same time (which some classes could) was making the game hard? No, i said DANGEROUS, because you are more exposed for a longer time to be ganked, get adds (remember those filthy gnolls running away and bringing more dudes over and over? i member). And i already explained why. You are trying to focus this on hard or whatever, WOW was never hard, but the world felt way better back then for reasons you choose to ignore, the time consuming aspect of grinding/leveling is fundamental to the open world experience.
What i answered to (and i already explained it to you) was that such a quality of life change like making the mobs deal less damage can change how the game feels specially in pvp servers (and i already said that i don't know if what Cyro posted is true, but that's irrelevant to the point i am argueing against, which finds it irrelevant).
It's not elitist to call or suggest that some people weren't MMO noobs, because some of us weren't. It's factual. I am pretty sure you are aware that some of us had played games like SWG, Camelot, Everquest, Ultima and more for years before even stepping a single foot into Azeroth's online version, and in many ways WoW streamlined and simplified how MMO worked back then (in many ways for the better imo). We already knew how to kite, how to purge effects, make our builds, how to search for efficient farming routes, etc. WoW didn't invent anything new in that regard, it just polished the turd to make it more appealing to a wider spectrum of players. That's why when people make the argument about how "the game wasn't even hard back then", "players are better now" are irrelevant, because they are argueing against a strawman. Nobody thinks the game was harder mechanically speaking. And if they do, they are too dumb to deserve your time.
What vanilla had over current wow iteration is how the world felt. And while some people believe it's because of the pink colored glasses, the reality is that the game had changed so much over the years that you could not possibly make a convincing argument either way.
On May 23 2019 03:09 Pandemona wrote: Oh shit i got beta access nice, downloading now. Guess a lot more ppl are getting in now?
Stress test later tonight so I think a massive wave of people got the stress test part of it. Its from 4-6pm PDT and everyone can level up to 5. Its to test their layering system (or see how much they need) to make the launch of classic not completely insane.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Players getting better has nothing to do with the world being easier or not (silly argument to be honest, it is one that is repeated ad nauseum like MMOs didn't exist before WoW, maybe you were a noob back then, not everyone was).
I didn't say vanilla was ever hard, or if that was a point of contention, but if your character can't deal with 2-3 mobs at the same time efficiently is not about "skill", just about raw numbers.
The danger comes from other players being able to kill you easily if you are engaged. The danger comes from having to rest often. The danger comes from pulling more than what you can deal with. And that relies on how much damage can the mobs dish out and sustain entirely, which was what Rebs was saying "was not worth it to investigate or even better if it was faster". Whatever else you are answering to, is a product of your imagination.
Actually if you are saying that a character is unable to deal with 2-3 mobs and able to deal with 1.
That automatically makes things more difficult no ? What would you call a situation where handling t one mob and harder against 2-3 is a more "threatening" (whatever the reason might be, in your case "damage") . I would call that an increase in difficulty. What would you call it ? Yeah ...
So his assumption that you are making the claim that the game was harder is fair. So I would stop with the act of trying to be clever with semantics. You know what you meant and when he called it out you left yourself a convenient dodge.
And my point of contention had nothing to do with the danger in the world and whether it mattered or not. That is an extension you created all on your own because you also seem to be worried that cats on an island had a lower damage value. When none of the other evidence suggests there is a consistent problem with damage values.
My contention is that it is a completely isolated case and suggesting based on the evidence that this was a wide spread phenomenon was a meaningless exercise. It is not a player problem to solve. The post is literally "a tiger on an island is doing the wrong damage, we must scour the world to check for incorrect damage values based on this."
And unlike you, I actually read the thread fully and concluded it was not worth the exercise.
Can you in good faith say that you read the thread he linked properly before disagreeing with me ? Yeah. Think about that.
And if people want to investigate, go ahead. I didnt once say that people arent free to exercise their god given right to pursue what to me "felt" like a meaningless activity.
The bottom line is its a report and move on observation not a "we must investigate, blizzard might be cheating us investigation."
The better if faster was simply my personal opinion. Try pulling more aggressively with halved damage values in Vanilla. I can assure you the dangers you are alluding to would be ever present. You and your pro ass would be in just as much danger from the "world".
But the fact is that you are being a bit if an elitist turd if you think that it was just raw numbers that made the world more difficult back then. I promise you I can breeze through Vanilla content now without a single one of the hiccups that I had to face back then.Simply because I know and remember enough to optimize my gameplay around the numbers that doexist.
All it really does is make it slower. I understand the numbers enough to know when to disengage if I make a mistake, I understand what content is better served in groups and how to find them, what order to follow it. We know and understand all of the numbers pretty well now so playing around them is simply a matter of speed. Not difficulty. The danger from the world is about as high as trying to do a WQ with warmode on in BFA. Its just that NPC's form a smaller part of that particular conversation.
And granted there will be plenty of them this time around aswell. But with all the content sharing going on I doubt it will be that much of a thing as it was.
And its rather elitist to suggest that most people back then werent noobs or at the very least knew where things were, how to handle them and how to get around the world.
So not only is it a bullshit argument it is the sort of elitist statement+ Show Spoiler +
(that you have no real grounds for making given we have no evidence of what skills or knowledge you possesed back then
) that firmly belongs back up your ass which is where it appears it came from.
You are reading shit into what i wrote that i did not. It's simple, you are trying to paint me as some hardcore vanilla defender that attempts to get the classic edition with a purity seal. Let me dispel that for you, i am not. At this point i don't really care how the game ends up.
Where did i say that not being able to farm efficiently 2-3 mobs at the same time (which some classes could) was making the game hard? No, i said DANGEROUS, because you are more exposed for a longer time to be ganked, get adds (remember those filthy gnolls running away and bringing more dudes over and over? i member). And i already explained why. You are trying to focus this on hard or whatever, WOW was never hard, but the world felt way better back then for reasons you choose to ignore, the time consuming aspect of grinding/leveling is fundamental to the open world experience.
What i answered to (and i already explained it to you) was that such a quality of life change like making the mobs deal less damage can change how the game feels specially in pvp servers (and i already said that i don't know if what Cyro posted is true, but that's irrelevant to the point i am argueing against, which finds it irrelevant).
It's not elitist to call or suggest that some people weren't MMO noobs, because some of us weren't. It's factual. I am pretty sure you are aware that some of us had played games like SWG, Camelot, Everquest, Ultima and more for years before even stepping a single foot into Azeroth's online version, and in many ways WoW streamlined and simplified how MMO worked back then (in many ways for the better imo). We already knew how to kite, how to purge effects, make our builds, how to search for efficient farming routes, etc. WoW didn't invent anything new in that regard, it just polished the turd to make it more appealing to a wider spectrum of players. That's why when people make the argument about how "the game wasn't even hard back then", "players are better now" are irrelevant, because they are argueing against a strawman. Nobody thinks the game was harder mechanically speaking. And if they do, they are too dumb to deserve your time.
What vanilla had over current wow iteration is how the world felt. And while some people believe it's because of the pink colored glasses, the reality is that the game had changed so much over the years that you could not possibly make a convincing argument either way.
I understand what you are trying to say, and my counter point is that the world isn't dangerous anymore. There is nothing dangerous out there. With 15 years of knowledge we know nearly every bit of what classic is and will be. We know every mob, we know the ins and outs of every quest, we know where everything is. Nothing is dangerous. In vanilla I was in duskwood and got killed by stitches and mor'ladim. In classic I never once pulled them because I am aware of them before hand. That is not dangerous. The danger is gone because we know all of it.
15 years ago many people did not know how to maximize their classes dps, equip themselves with the proper items, do professions in tandem to leveling, know how to pull 1 mob at a time, etc. You might have, but a vast majority of people WoW was their first MMO and were completely clueless.
There is no danger in wow except the danger you as the player make. In the past players on average were worse, thus took longer to kill mobs, making it feel more dangerous. But now most fights against mobs are shorter, lessening this time frame. You are pulling mobs to safer spots to not have this issue. You are making better use of other tangible things (items/dps/consumables/talents) to make mobs die faster. You are making better choices on what quests to do and mobs to kill to not be in this dangerous spots.
You keep saying the world should be dangerous, but the point I (and maybe Rebs I don't want to quote for him) are making is that the world is not dangerous anymore because we have all of the knowledge. There is nothing we don't know about classic and thats why it isnt dangerous. You can mention pvp servers but that isn't a 'danger' part of the game because that is just another player in the game. Its not the game against you, its a player against you.
Uhm, I just recently played a Shaman to lvl 30 on a private server with normal experience gain and broken herbalism spawns (so constantly selfbuffing with potions wasn't really possible).
Is the game truely hard? No, for sure not. But it is unforgiving and will kill you again and again if you don't pay attention, some quests are basically designt for you to take on more mobs than most classes can chew. You are forced to go slow and steady because else you will die from time to time.
You seem to have this weird idea that all players were horrible back then and sorry, thats just bullshit. Not everyone was 10 years old and had no clue, there were MMORPGs before, there were plenty of competetive gamers from other areas that came to WoW. Do you think all these people spontaneously decided to become bads? If you made it to lvl 30, chances are high, that you kinda knew how to solo PvE. Not pitch perfect, but we are not speedrunning here.
I now know plenty more than back then, my leveling pace most likely won't be any faster than it was for my second char anyway, why would it? I knew most quests allready and the rest is down to lucky drops or buying buffs. The one thing that would make people really much faster, is a quest tracker and i strongly hope they make these things illegal.
You seem to be talking about people that map out their entire leveling route beforehand, including group quests and all that stuff. Well, sorry, thats not how 99% of people will play WoW and for these 99% people classic is much "harder" than anything the world in retail throws at you.
Why you even think mobs doing less damage than they have (if true), doesn't matter, i can't even really understand. I mean... It is a numbers game.
Question about early leveling: As mentioned i played an alliance Shaman to lvl ~30 on a TBC server and, I got just one question, could it be that Shaman is the WORST class to Level ever? Does it get better once you get to higher Levels? Because that was such a pain. I leveled a horde Mage on the same server to lvl ~16 just to "check" if it was me and that felt much better, sure you drink alot but that was the same with the shaman. I had leveled just about every class during TBC do Level ~3X at least and to me it felt something like Hunter > Warlock/Rogue > Mage (no AE)/Priest > Warrior > Shaman (no comment on Pala/Druid because they changed pretty hard from classic to TBC?). I was actually interested in rolling Shaman and i know that leveling doesn't really matter in the long run, but it just felt so horrible ^^ (and a friend decided to go Shaman).
Btw: Alliance sucks, never again. These city layouts are just so bad...
As mentioned i played an alliance Shaman to lvl ~30 on a TBC server and, I got just one question, could it be that Shaman is the WORST class to Level ever?
Warrior is absolute ass at medium levels
Shaman has a lot of stuff which scales well into small groups but alone it's pretty awful ya
Shaman is not THAT bad tbh, they rely a lot on WF procs and on having a good weapon, but they have a heal, a slow, decent armor, and wolf form for movement speed. They kill slowly but have relatively little downtime. So I'd rate them right in the middle of the pack in overall leveling speed. Only hunters,warlocks and possibly druids are significantly faster.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Players getting better has nothing to do with the world being easier or not (silly argument to be honest, it is one that is repeated ad nauseum like MMOs didn't exist before WoW, maybe you were a noob back then, not everyone was).
I didn't say vanilla was ever hard, or if that was a point of contention, but if your character can't deal with 2-3 mobs at the same time efficiently is not about "skill", just about raw numbers.
The danger comes from other players being able to kill you easily if you are engaged. The danger comes from having to rest often. The danger comes from pulling more than what you can deal with. And that relies on how much damage can the mobs dish out and sustain entirely, which was what Rebs was saying "was not worth it to investigate or even better if it was faster". Whatever else you are answering to, is a product of your imagination.
Actually if you are saying that a character is unable to deal with 2-3 mobs and able to deal with 1.
That automatically makes things more difficult no ? What would you call a situation where handling t one mob and harder against 2-3 is a more "threatening" (whatever the reason might be, in your case "damage") . I would call that an increase in difficulty. What would you call it ? Yeah ...
So his assumption that you are making the claim that the game was harder is fair. So I would stop with the act of trying to be clever with semantics. You know what you meant and when he called it out you left yourself a convenient dodge.
And my point of contention had nothing to do with the danger in the world and whether it mattered or not. That is an extension you created all on your own because you also seem to be worried that cats on an island had a lower damage value. When none of the other evidence suggests there is a consistent problem with damage values.
My contention is that it is a completely isolated case and suggesting based on the evidence that this was a wide spread phenomenon was a meaningless exercise. It is not a player problem to solve. The post is literally "a tiger on an island is doing the wrong damage, we must scour the world to check for incorrect damage values based on this."
And unlike you, I actually read the thread fully and concluded it was not worth the exercise.
Can you in good faith say that you read the thread he linked properly before disagreeing with me ? Yeah. Think about that.
And if people want to investigate, go ahead. I didnt once say that people arent free to exercise their god given right to pursue what to me "felt" like a meaningless activity.
The bottom line is its a report and move on observation not a "we must investigate, blizzard might be cheating us investigation."
The better if faster was simply my personal opinion. Try pulling more aggressively with halved damage values in Vanilla. I can assure you the dangers you are alluding to would be ever present. You and your pro ass would be in just as much danger from the "world".
But the fact is that you are being a bit if an elitist turd if you think that it was just raw numbers that made the world more difficult back then. I promise you I can breeze through Vanilla content now without a single one of the hiccups that I had to face back then.Simply because I know and remember enough to optimize my gameplay around the numbers that doexist.
All it really does is make it slower. I understand the numbers enough to know when to disengage if I make a mistake, I understand what content is better served in groups and how to find them, what order to follow it. We know and understand all of the numbers pretty well now so playing around them is simply a matter of speed. Not difficulty. The danger from the world is about as high as trying to do a WQ with warmode on in BFA. Its just that NPC's form a smaller part of that particular conversation.
And granted there will be plenty of them this time around aswell. But with all the content sharing going on I doubt it will be that much of a thing as it was.
And its rather elitist to suggest that most people back then werent noobs or at the very least knew where things were, how to handle them and how to get around the world.
So not only is it a bullshit argument it is the sort of elitist statement+ Show Spoiler +
(that you have no real grounds for making given we have no evidence of what skills or knowledge you possesed back then
) that firmly belongs back up your ass which is where it appears it came from.
You are reading shit into what i wrote that i did not. It's simple, you are trying to paint me as some hardcore vanilla defender that attempts to get the classic edition with a purity seal. Let me dispel that for you, i am not. At this point i don't really care how the game ends up.
Where did i say that not being able to farm efficiently 2-3 mobs at the same time (which some classes could) was making the game hard? No, i said DANGEROUS, because you are more exposed for a longer time to be ganked, get adds (remember those filthy gnolls running away and bringing more dudes over and over? i member). And i already explained why. You are trying to focus this on hard or whatever, WOW was never hard, but the world felt way better back then for reasons you choose to ignore, the time consuming aspect of grinding/leveling is fundamental to the open world experience.
What i answered to (and i already explained it to you) was that such a quality of life change like making the mobs deal less damage can change how the game feels specially in pvp servers (and i already said that i don't know if what Cyro posted is true, but that's irrelevant to the point i am argueing against, which finds it irrelevant).
It's not elitist to call or suggest that some people weren't MMO noobs, because some of us weren't. It's factual. I am pretty sure you are aware that some of us had played games like SWG, Camelot, Everquest, Ultima and more for years before even stepping a single foot into Azeroth's online version, and in many ways WoW streamlined and simplified how MMO worked back then (in many ways for the better imo). We already knew how to kite, how to purge effects, make our builds, how to search for efficient farming routes, etc. WoW didn't invent anything new in that regard, it just polished the turd to make it more appealing to a wider spectrum of players. That's why when people make the argument about how "the game wasn't even hard back then", "players are better now" are irrelevant, because they are argueing against a strawman. Nobody thinks the game was harder mechanically speaking. And if they do, they are too dumb to deserve your time.
What vanilla had over current wow iteration is how the world felt. And while some people believe it's because of the pink colored glasses, the reality is that the game had changed so much over the years that you could not possibly make a convincing argument either way.
You keep saying the world should be dangerous, but the point I (and maybe Rebs I don't want to quote for him) are making is that the world is not dangerous anymore because we have all of the knowledge. There is nothing we don't know about classic and thats why it isnt dangerous. You can mention pvp servers but that isn't a 'danger' part of the game because that is just another player in the game. Its not the game against you, its a player against you.
I am saying that you are both wrong if you think halving damage output from mobs doesn't make the world feel less dangerous,and i feel like i shouldn't have to state something that obvious.
All the stuff you mention, i already did back then, and the reason I did it was, surprise, because i already knew how to farm and because it was dangerous not to do it, in pvp servers you still had to keep an eye in your resources and your surroundings all the time even if you found a safe spot (which i did plenty, if you are interested my gaming routine back then was to grind a few hours leveling and afterwards farming for raids, and dedicate the rest of my time to outdoor pvp or organized bgs).
Tell me, when was the last time you were pulling mobs one by one to safe spots and checking your surroundings all the time, timing repops to avoid being caught and maximize your farming time, reading the general in case there were parties ganking people. When was the last time that you would had been sneaking from enemy players to be able to kill mobs to continue your progress, or even better to get the jump on them. That was day by day leveling in vanilla, not something that happened to you once in a blue moon. Hell even at max level that was a good chunk of my time spent in game outside of raids.
Is this hard? No. Does it require something from you other than smashing buttons? Yes. Does it help to inmerse yourself into the world where you are playing? Absolutely.
The reason this has changed through the years isn't that "players got better, but that blizzard accommodated the game to a good chunk of people who do not enjoy that thrill. And that's perfectly fine, i have friends who hate being ganked and just can't play that kind of game where they can be jumped, they just don't have fun, but don't come to tell me that "players were bad back then that's why the game felt harder" when i am telling (repeatdly) you that the point wasn't that it was harder, but that it was thrilling to be in the outside, especially in contrast to nowadays queueing or safely tagging mobs for your world quests. And mobs damage is a fundamental part of it, as were respawn times, mob's health, player's damage output, player's resources (it's not the same being able to throw 10 frostbolts, than 20 before resting, even if it doesn't make the game harder, right?), etc.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Players getting better has nothing to do with the world being easier or not (silly argument to be honest, it is one that is repeated ad nauseum like MMOs didn't exist before WoW, maybe you were a noob back then, not everyone was).
I didn't say vanilla was ever hard, or if that was a point of contention, but if your character can't deal with 2-3 mobs at the same time efficiently is not about "skill", just about raw numbers.
The danger comes from other players being able to kill you easily if you are engaged. The danger comes from having to rest often. The danger comes from pulling more than what you can deal with. And that relies on how much damage can the mobs dish out and sustain entirely, which was what Rebs was saying "was not worth it to investigate or even better if it was faster". Whatever else you are answering to, is a product of your imagination.
Actually if you are saying that a character is unable to deal with 2-3 mobs and able to deal with 1.
That automatically makes things more difficult no ? What would you call a situation where handling t one mob and harder against 2-3 is a more "threatening" (whatever the reason might be, in your case "damage") . I would call that an increase in difficulty. What would you call it ? Yeah ...
So his assumption that you are making the claim that the game was harder is fair. So I would stop with the act of trying to be clever with semantics. You know what you meant and when he called it out you left yourself a convenient dodge.
And my point of contention had nothing to do with the danger in the world and whether it mattered or not. That is an extension you created all on your own because you also seem to be worried that cats on an island had a lower damage value. When none of the other evidence suggests there is a consistent problem with damage values.
My contention is that it is a completely isolated case and suggesting based on the evidence that this was a wide spread phenomenon was a meaningless exercise. It is not a player problem to solve. The post is literally "a tiger on an island is doing the wrong damage, we must scour the world to check for incorrect damage values based on this."
And unlike you, I actually read the thread fully and concluded it was not worth the exercise.
Can you in good faith say that you read the thread he linked properly before disagreeing with me ? Yeah. Think about that.
And if people want to investigate, go ahead. I didnt once say that people arent free to exercise their god given right to pursue what to me "felt" like a meaningless activity.
The bottom line is its a report and move on observation not a "we must investigate, blizzard might be cheating us investigation."
The better if faster was simply my personal opinion. Try pulling more aggressively with halved damage values in Vanilla. I can assure you the dangers you are alluding to would be ever present. You and your pro ass would be in just as much danger from the "world".
But the fact is that you are being a bit if an elitist turd if you think that it was just raw numbers that made the world more difficult back then. I promise you I can breeze through Vanilla content now without a single one of the hiccups that I had to face back then.Simply because I know and remember enough to optimize my gameplay around the numbers that doexist.
All it really does is make it slower. I understand the numbers enough to know when to disengage if I make a mistake, I understand what content is better served in groups and how to find them, what order to follow it. We know and understand all of the numbers pretty well now so playing around them is simply a matter of speed. Not difficulty. The danger from the world is about as high as trying to do a WQ with warmode on in BFA. Its just that NPC's form a smaller part of that particular conversation.
And granted there will be plenty of them this time around aswell. But with all the content sharing going on I doubt it will be that much of a thing as it was.
And its rather elitist to suggest that most people back then werent noobs or at the very least knew where things were, how to handle them and how to get around the world.
So not only is it a bullshit argument it is the sort of elitist statement+ Show Spoiler +
(that you have no real grounds for making given we have no evidence of what skills or knowledge you possesed back then
) that firmly belongs back up your ass which is where it appears it came from.
You are reading shit into what i wrote that i did not. It's simple, you are trying to paint me as some hardcore vanilla defender that attempts to get the classic edition with a purity seal. Let me dispel that for you, i am not. At this point i don't really care how the game ends up.
Where did i say that not being able to farm efficiently 2-3 mobs at the same time (which some classes could) was making the game hard? No, i said DANGEROUS, because you are more exposed for a longer time to be ganked, get adds (remember those filthy gnolls running away and bringing more dudes over and over? i member). And i already explained why. You are trying to focus this on hard or whatever, WOW was never hard, but the world felt way better back then for reasons you choose to ignore, the time consuming aspect of grinding/leveling is fundamental to the open world experience.
What i answered to (and i already explained it to you) was that such a quality of life change like making the mobs deal less damage can change how the game feels specially in pvp servers (and i already said that i don't know if what Cyro posted is true, but that's irrelevant to the point i am argueing against, which finds it irrelevant).
It's not elitist to call or suggest that some people weren't MMO noobs, because some of us weren't. It's factual. I am pretty sure you are aware that some of us had played games like SWG, Camelot, Everquest, Ultima and more for years before even stepping a single foot into Azeroth's online version, and in many ways WoW streamlined and simplified how MMO worked back then (in many ways for the better imo). We already knew how to kite, how to purge effects, make our builds, how to search for efficient farming routes, etc. WoW didn't invent anything new in that regard, it just polished the turd to make it more appealing to a wider spectrum of players. That's why when people make the argument about how "the game wasn't even hard back then", "players are better now" are irrelevant, because they are argueing against a strawman. Nobody thinks the game was harder mechanically speaking. And if they do, they are too dumb to deserve your time.
What vanilla had over current wow iteration is how the world felt. And while some people believe it's because of the pink colored glasses, the reality is that the game had changed so much over the years that you could not possibly make a convincing argument either way.
You keep saying the world should be dangerous, but the point I (and maybe Rebs I don't want to quote for him) are making is that the world is not dangerous anymore because we have all of the knowledge. There is nothing we don't know about classic and thats why it isnt dangerous. You can mention pvp servers but that isn't a 'danger' part of the game because that is just another player in the game. Its not the game against you, its a player against you.
I am saying that you are both wrong if you think halving damage output from mobs doesn't make the world feel less dangerous,and i feel like i shouldn't have to state something that obvious.
All the stuff you mention, i already did back then, and the reason I did it was, surprise, because i already knew how to farm and because it was dangerous not to do it, in pvp servers you still had to keep an eye in your resources and your surroundings all the time even if you found a safe spot (which i did plenty, if you are interested my gaming routine back then was to grind a few hours leveling and afterwards farming for raids, and dedicate the rest of my time to outdoor pvp or organized bgs).
Tell me, when was the last time you were pulling mobs one by one to safe spots and checking your surroundings all the time, timing repops to avoid being caught and maximize your farming time, reading the general in case there were parties ganking people. When was the last time that you would had been sneaking from enemy players to be able to kill mobs to continue your progress, or even better to get the jump on them. That was day by day leveling in vanilla, not something that happened to you once in a blue moon. Hell even at max level that was a good chunk of my time spent in game outside of raids.
Is this hard? No. Does it require something from you other than smashing buttons? Yes. Does it help to inmerse yourself into the world where you are playing? Absolutely.
The reason this has changed through the years isn't that "players got better, but that blizzard accommodated the game to a good chunk of people who do not enjoy that thrill. And that's perfectly fine, i have friends who hate being ganked and just can't play that kind of game where they can be jumped, they just don't have fun, but don't come to tell me that "players were bad back then that's why the game felt harder" when i am telling (repeatdly) you that the point wasn't that it was harder, but that it was thrilling to be in the outside, especially in contrast to nowadays queueing or safely tagging mobs for your world quests. And mobs damage is a fundamental part of it, as were respawn times, mob's health, player's damage output, player's resources (it's not the same being able to throw 10 frostbolts, than 20 before resting, even if it doesn't make the game harder, right?), etc.
And to follow on from this, if the reduction in danger is coming from players getting better and Classic being a known quantity then that would be one thing, but this line of posting started because investigating why mobs are doing 50% damage was characterised as a pointless thing to investigate. The implication being that giving players a flat 50% damage reduction would be some sort of irrelevance.
It's arguing a completely different point and one that's more than a bit silly tbh.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Players getting better has nothing to do with the world being easier or not (silly argument to be honest, it is one that is repeated ad nauseum like MMOs didn't exist before WoW, maybe you were a noob back then, not everyone was).
I didn't say vanilla was ever hard, or if that was a point of contention, but if your character can't deal with 2-3 mobs at the same time efficiently is not about "skill", just about raw numbers.
The danger comes from other players being able to kill you easily if you are engaged. The danger comes from having to rest often. The danger comes from pulling more than what you can deal with. And that relies on how much damage can the mobs dish out and sustain entirely, which was what Rebs was saying "was not worth it to investigate or even better if it was faster". Whatever else you are answering to, is a product of your imagination.
Actually if you are saying that a character is unable to deal with 2-3 mobs and able to deal with 1.
That automatically makes things more difficult no ? What would you call a situation where handling t one mob and harder against 2-3 is a more "threatening" (whatever the reason might be, in your case "damage") . I would call that an increase in difficulty. What would you call it ? Yeah ...
So his assumption that you are making the claim that the game was harder is fair. So I would stop with the act of trying to be clever with semantics. You know what you meant and when he called it out you left yourself a convenient dodge.
And my point of contention had nothing to do with the danger in the world and whether it mattered or not. That is an extension you created all on your own because you also seem to be worried that cats on an island had a lower damage value. When none of the other evidence suggests there is a consistent problem with damage values.
My contention is that it is a completely isolated case and suggesting based on the evidence that this was a wide spread phenomenon was a meaningless exercise. It is not a player problem to solve. The post is literally "a tiger on an island is doing the wrong damage, we must scour the world to check for incorrect damage values based on this."
And unlike you, I actually read the thread fully and concluded it was not worth the exercise.
Can you in good faith say that you read the thread he linked properly before disagreeing with me ? Yeah. Think about that.
And if people want to investigate, go ahead. I didnt once say that people arent free to exercise their god given right to pursue what to me "felt" like a meaningless activity.
The bottom line is its a report and move on observation not a "we must investigate, blizzard might be cheating us investigation."
The better if faster was simply my personal opinion. Try pulling more aggressively with halved damage values in Vanilla. I can assure you the dangers you are alluding to would be ever present. You and your pro ass would be in just as much danger from the "world".
But the fact is that you are being a bit if an elitist turd if you think that it was just raw numbers that made the world more difficult back then. I promise you I can breeze through Vanilla content now without a single one of the hiccups that I had to face back then.Simply because I know and remember enough to optimize my gameplay around the numbers that doexist.
All it really does is make it slower. I understand the numbers enough to know when to disengage if I make a mistake, I understand what content is better served in groups and how to find them, what order to follow it. We know and understand all of the numbers pretty well now so playing around them is simply a matter of speed. Not difficulty. The danger from the world is about as high as trying to do a WQ with warmode on in BFA. Its just that NPC's form a smaller part of that particular conversation.
And granted there will be plenty of them this time around aswell. But with all the content sharing going on I doubt it will be that much of a thing as it was.
And its rather elitist to suggest that most people back then werent noobs or at the very least knew where things were, how to handle them and how to get around the world.
So not only is it a bullshit argument it is the sort of elitist statement+ Show Spoiler +
(that you have no real grounds for making given we have no evidence of what skills or knowledge you possesed back then
) that firmly belongs back up your ass which is where it appears it came from.
You are reading shit into what i wrote that i did not. It's simple, you are trying to paint me as some hardcore vanilla defender that attempts to get the classic edition with a purity seal. Let me dispel that for you, i am not. At this point i don't really care how the game ends up.
Where did i say that not being able to farm efficiently 2-3 mobs at the same time (which some classes could) was making the game hard? No, i said DANGEROUS, because you are more exposed for a longer time to be ganked, get adds (remember those filthy gnolls running away and bringing more dudes over and over? i member). And i already explained why. You are trying to focus this on hard or whatever, WOW was never hard, but the world felt way better back then for reasons you choose to ignore, the time consuming aspect of grinding/leveling is fundamental to the open world experience.
What i answered to (and i already explained it to you) was that such a quality of life change like making the mobs deal less damage can change how the game feels specially in pvp servers (and i already said that i don't know if what Cyro posted is true, but that's irrelevant to the point i am argueing against, which finds it irrelevant).
It's not elitist to call or suggest that some people weren't MMO noobs, because some of us weren't. It's factual. I am pretty sure you are aware that some of us had played games like SWG, Camelot, Everquest, Ultima and more for years before even stepping a single foot into Azeroth's online version, and in many ways WoW streamlined and simplified how MMO worked back then (in many ways for the better imo). We already knew how to kite, how to purge effects, make our builds, how to search for efficient farming routes, etc. WoW didn't invent anything new in that regard, it just polished the turd to make it more appealing to a wider spectrum of players. That's why when people make the argument about how "the game wasn't even hard back then", "players are better now" are irrelevant, because they are argueing against a strawman. Nobody thinks the game was harder mechanically speaking. And if they do, they are too dumb to deserve your time.
What vanilla had over current wow iteration is how the world felt. And while some people believe it's because of the pink colored glasses, the reality is that the game had changed so much over the years that you could not possibly make a convincing argument either way.
You keep saying the world should be dangerous, but the point I (and maybe Rebs I don't want to quote for him) are making is that the world is not dangerous anymore because we have all of the knowledge. There is nothing we don't know about classic and thats why it isnt dangerous. You can mention pvp servers but that isn't a 'danger' part of the game because that is just another player in the game. Its not the game against you, its a player against you.
I am saying that you are both wrong if you think halving damage output from mobs doesn't make the world feel less dangerous,and i feel like i shouldn't have to state something that obvious.
No where did I state this. The information provided was that people are suggesting that mobs hit half as hard. The evidence from both blizzard and other players doing research into it is that this fact of all mobs doing half damage is wrong.
People are stating from that very isolated incident of a tiger and stoneskin totem bug that a good number of mobs aren't doing correct damage and as such making classic easy.
All my comments refer to that the damage numbers are the same as they were in vanilla, and that people are looking back at vanilla being hard as nostalgia. Many people are saying that vanilla felt harder, but all the numbers are the same when compared back to them.
I don't get why you keep bringing up that you were some great person at MMOs before WoW. I never said that was wrong, but a vast majority of players that started wow were not great/experts at the game (myself included). Even if you did have experience in MMOs before wow, its unlikely that you had as much experience in 2004 as you do now about wow.
Some good evidence-backed examples of mobs hitting twice as hard in vanilla as they are in the current classic beta
This feels like such a meaningless thing to investigate lol..
Completely disagree, even if leveling in WOW was somehow easy for that age since it was soloable, that mobs were dangerous lead to give a greater sense of being in a dangerous place, especially in pvp realms.
No, players got better over the years. Blizzard already posted showing elites doing equal damage now as they did before. People still don't believe them.
Vanilla was never 'hard' outside of the fact that so many people did not know how to play. There is very little in danger in the world if you know what to expect and how to play around it.
Its actually been shown that private servers actually have made some of their fights harder because the original information they had they though was too easy (increasing armor/damage for bosses).
Players getting better has nothing to do with the world being easier or not (silly argument to be honest, it is one that is repeated ad nauseum like MMOs didn't exist before WoW, maybe you were a noob back then, not everyone was).
I didn't say vanilla was ever hard, or if that was a point of contention, but if your character can't deal with 2-3 mobs at the same time efficiently is not about "skill", just about raw numbers.
The danger comes from other players being able to kill you easily if you are engaged. The danger comes from having to rest often. The danger comes from pulling more than what you can deal with. And that relies on how much damage can the mobs dish out and sustain entirely, which was what Rebs was saying "was not worth it to investigate or even better if it was faster". Whatever else you are answering to, is a product of your imagination.
Actually if you are saying that a character is unable to deal with 2-3 mobs and able to deal with 1.
That automatically makes things more difficult no ? What would you call a situation where handling t one mob and harder against 2-3 is a more "threatening" (whatever the reason might be, in your case "damage") . I would call that an increase in difficulty. What would you call it ? Yeah ...
So his assumption that you are making the claim that the game was harder is fair. So I would stop with the act of trying to be clever with semantics. You know what you meant and when he called it out you left yourself a convenient dodge.
And my point of contention had nothing to do with the danger in the world and whether it mattered or not. That is an extension you created all on your own because you also seem to be worried that cats on an island had a lower damage value. When none of the other evidence suggests there is a consistent problem with damage values.
My contention is that it is a completely isolated case and suggesting based on the evidence that this was a wide spread phenomenon was a meaningless exercise. It is not a player problem to solve. The post is literally "a tiger on an island is doing the wrong damage, we must scour the world to check for incorrect damage values based on this."
And unlike you, I actually read the thread fully and concluded it was not worth the exercise.
Can you in good faith say that you read the thread he linked properly before disagreeing with me ? Yeah. Think about that.
And if people want to investigate, go ahead. I didnt once say that people arent free to exercise their god given right to pursue what to me "felt" like a meaningless activity.
The bottom line is its a report and move on observation not a "we must investigate, blizzard might be cheating us investigation."
The better if faster was simply my personal opinion. Try pulling more aggressively with halved damage values in Vanilla. I can assure you the dangers you are alluding to would be ever present. You and your pro ass would be in just as much danger from the "world".
But the fact is that you are being a bit if an elitist turd if you think that it was just raw numbers that made the world more difficult back then. I promise you I can breeze through Vanilla content now without a single one of the hiccups that I had to face back then.Simply because I know and remember enough to optimize my gameplay around the numbers that doexist.
All it really does is make it slower. I understand the numbers enough to know when to disengage if I make a mistake, I understand what content is better served in groups and how to find them, what order to follow it. We know and understand all of the numbers pretty well now so playing around them is simply a matter of speed. Not difficulty. The danger from the world is about as high as trying to do a WQ with warmode on in BFA. Its just that NPC's form a smaller part of that particular conversation.
And granted there will be plenty of them this time around aswell. But with all the content sharing going on I doubt it will be that much of a thing as it was.
And its rather elitist to suggest that most people back then werent noobs or at the very least knew where things were, how to handle them and how to get around the world.
So not only is it a bullshit argument it is the sort of elitist statement+ Show Spoiler +
(that you have no real grounds for making given we have no evidence of what skills or knowledge you possesed back then
) that firmly belongs back up your ass which is where it appears it came from.
You are reading shit into what i wrote that i did not. It's simple, you are trying to paint me as some hardcore vanilla defender that attempts to get the classic edition with a purity seal. Let me dispel that for you, i am not. At this point i don't really care how the game ends up.
Where did i say that not being able to farm efficiently 2-3 mobs at the same time (which some classes could) was making the game hard? No, i said DANGEROUS, because you are more exposed for a longer time to be ganked, get adds (remember those filthy gnolls running away and bringing more dudes over and over? i member). And i already explained why. You are trying to focus this on hard or whatever, WOW was never hard, but the world felt way better back then for reasons you choose to ignore, the time consuming aspect of grinding/leveling is fundamental to the open world experience.
What i answered to (and i already explained it to you) was that such a quality of life change like making the mobs deal less damage can change how the game feels specially in pvp servers (and i already said that i don't know if what Cyro posted is true, but that's irrelevant to the point i am argueing against, which finds it irrelevant).
It's not elitist to call or suggest that some people weren't MMO noobs, because some of us weren't. It's factual. I am pretty sure you are aware that some of us had played games like SWG, Camelot, Everquest, Ultima and more for years before even stepping a single foot into Azeroth's online version, and in many ways WoW streamlined and simplified how MMO worked back then (in many ways for the better imo). We already knew how to kite, how to purge effects, make our builds, how to search for efficient farming routes, etc. WoW didn't invent anything new in that regard, it just polished the turd to make it more appealing to a wider spectrum of players. That's why when people make the argument about how "the game wasn't even hard back then", "players are better now" are irrelevant, because they are argueing against a strawman. Nobody thinks the game was harder mechanically speaking. And if they do, they are too dumb to deserve your time.
What vanilla had over current wow iteration is how the world felt. And while some people believe it's because of the pink colored glasses, the reality is that the game had changed so much over the years that you could not possibly make a convincing argument either way.
You keep saying the world should be dangerous, but the point I (and maybe Rebs I don't want to quote for him) are making is that the world is not dangerous anymore because we have all of the knowledge. There is nothing we don't know about classic and thats why it isnt dangerous. You can mention pvp servers but that isn't a 'danger' part of the game because that is just another player in the game. Its not the game against you, its a player against you.
I am saying that you are both wrong if you think halving damage output from mobs doesn't make the world feel less dangerous,and i feel like i shouldn't have to state something that obvious.
No where did I state this. The information provided was that people are suggesting that mobs hit half as hard. The evidence from both blizzard and other players doing research into it is that this fact of all mobs doing half damage is wrong.
I understand what you are trying to say, and my counter point is that the world isn't dangerous anymore.
You have a fixation that the world isn't dangerous because players are ellevated to such level where they won't die anymore, they won't get ganked and they will be able to farm no problem in contested zones. We both know it's not true, because we have played retail.
People are stating from that very isolated incident of a tiger and stoneskin totem bug that a good number of mobs aren't doing correct damage and as such making classic easy.
All my comments refer to that the damage numbers are the same as they were in vanilla, and that people are looking back at vanilla being hard as nostalgia. Many people are saying that vanilla felt harder, but all the numbers are the same when compared back to them.
Perfect, and my comments were against the idea that mobs dealing half the damage would be irrelevant, and you already were making the argument that numbers don't matter in that regard because players are so much better now.
I don't get why you keep bringing up that you were some great person at MMOs before WoW. I never said that was wrong, but a vast majority of players that started wow were not great/experts at the game (myself included). Even if you did have experience in MMOs before wow, its unlikely that you had as much experience in 2004 as you do now about wow.
That's not what i am saying, but good misscharacterization, because instead of answering to my point (where i am telling you that players who had played MMORPGs before already knew how to play and still found the world immersion good and dangerous enough) you think i am bragging for something as irrelevant as that.
On May 23 2019 16:07 Velr wrote: Question about early leveling: As mentioned i played an alliance Shaman to lvl ~30 on a TBC server and, I got just one question, could it be that Shaman is the WORST class to Level ever? Does it get better once you get to higher Levels? Because that was such a pain. I leveled a horde Mage on the same server to lvl ~16 just to "check" if it was me and that felt much better, sure you drink alot but that was the same with the shaman. I had leveled just about every class during TBC do Level ~3X at least and to me it felt something like Hunter > Warlock/Rogue > Mage (no AE)/Priest > Warrior > Shaman (no comment on Pala/Druid because they changed pretty hard from classic to TBC?). I was actually interested in rolling Shaman and i know that leveling doesn't really matter in the long run, but it just felt so horrible ^^ (and a friend decided to go Shaman).
Btw: Alliance sucks, never again. These city layouts are just so bad...
I cannot tell you how leveling speed compares to other classes, it has been too long for me to compare.
What I can say is, as soon as you unlock Dual Wield, Shaman kills way faster with Windfury. I remember loving my big two hander, one-shoting mobs from time to time. But switching to Dual Wield was a real eye-opener.
I don't know at what level you can reach the talent though, I think it was a 21 or 31 points, so lvl30 or lvl40. So yeah, the first 30 levels might be slow.
Hey, PM me if somebody is forming a WoW Classic guild or interested in one on EU. I was raid leader for AQ40 and Nax progression back in the day. We cleared AQ40 except Cthun, and first 6 Nax bosses.
I am probably going to play a mage again, kinda going back to the roots since the mage was the first character I created back in 2004... ah the nostalgia. Plus, leveling as a mage was amazing compared to other classes. Downtimes were managable since you could provide yourself with unlimited food, blink made you go faster and beeing able to cast portals was paid well and saved you an enormous amount of time.
Gonna make another druid main and wpvp my way to 60 and some beyond^^ might make a alt or a few if I feel like it but it's hard to play more than a char at a time
On May 23 2019 16:07 Velr wrote: Uhm, I just recently played a Shaman to lvl 30 on a private server with normal experience gain and broken herbalism spawns (so constantly selfbuffing with potions wasn't really possible).
Btw: Alliance sucks, never again. These city layouts are just so bad...
What?! I know all the capitals like the back of my hand, so its never going to be an issue, but Ironforge is way better organized than Org. Undercity has the worst layout in the game.
On May 23 2019 16:07 Velr wrote: Question about early leveling: As mentioned i played an alliance Shaman to lvl ~30 on a TBC server and, I got just one question, could it be that Shaman is the WORST class to Level ever? Does it get better once you get to higher Levels? Because that was such a pain. I leveled a horde Mage on the same server to lvl ~16 just to "check" if it was me and that felt much better, sure you drink alot but that was the same with the shaman. I had leveled just about every class during TBC do Level ~3X at least and to me it felt something like Hunter > Warlock/Rogue > Mage (no AE)/Priest > Warrior > Shaman (no comment on Pala/Druid because they changed pretty hard from classic to TBC?). I was actually interested in rolling Shaman and i know that leveling doesn't really matter in the long run, but it just felt so horrible ^^ (and a friend decided to go Shaman).
Btw: Alliance sucks, never again. These city layouts are just so bad...
I cannot tell you how leveling speed compares to other classes, it has been too long for me to compare.
What I can say is, as soon as you unlock Dual Wield, Shaman kills way faster with Windfury. I remember loving my big two hander, one-shoting mobs from time to time. But switching to Dual Wield was a real eye-opener.
I don't know at what level you can reach the talent though, I think it was a 21 or 31 points, so lvl30 or lvl40.
So yeah, the first 30 levels might be slow.
Shaman doesn't have dual wield in classic, that's a TBC talent.
Booo to that GTR, but understandable. Once release gets closer, I'll coordinate something, what is the server setup for classic? I assume there'll be far fewer to choose from?
On May 23 2019 16:07 Velr wrote: Uhm, I just recently played a Shaman to lvl 30 on a private server with normal experience gain and broken herbalism spawns (so constantly selfbuffing with potions wasn't really possible).
Btw: Alliance sucks, never again. These city layouts are just so bad...
What?! I know all the capitals like the back of my hand, so its never going to be an issue, but Ironforge is way better organized than Org. Undercity has the worst layout in the game.
Ironforge was ok, Stormwind is just horrible. Undercity is, aside from the waaay too long entrance, not bad at all, if you fly in (which you will do 99% of the time) i don't see an issue with it. I was Draenei.... The Exodar is the worst city ever, it manages to combine everything bad about Org/UC and has the worst flightpath location possible.
Hello everyone! I've played the original game plus a bit of TBC up until 2007. I've done some reading and I saw that those with active subscription can play classic. Will I be able to play if I subscribe with my account, or do I still need to buy the latest expansion? Thanks in advance!
You will be able to play with a subscription, they make the old expansions free anyway the only one u have to pay for as of now is Battle for Azeroth so as long as you have a wow account with an active subscription you will be good to go.
I keep seeing people on the wow forums talking about an upgrade to the classic animations ever so slightly. Yet, when I watch streamers play classic beta I don't notice any of these upgrades.
On June 02 2019 03:41 Jan1997 wrote: I keep seeing people on the wow forums talking about an upgrade to the classic animations ever so slightly. Yet, when I watch streamers play classic beta I don't notice any of these upgrades.
BS or or real?
The standard graphics slider for classic settings is like a 6 or 7 on the 1-10 slider. You can slide it up to a 10.
I dont think any animations were updated as that requires blizzard changing the animations. The graphics can be higher quality though.
On June 02 2019 03:41 Jan1997 wrote: I keep seeing people on the wow forums talking about an upgrade to the classic animations ever so slightly. Yet, when I watch streamers play classic beta I don't notice any of these upgrades.
BS or or real?
The standard graphics slider for classic settings is like a 6 or 7 on the 1-10 slider. You can slide it up to a 10.
I dont think any animations were updated as that requires blizzard changing the animations. The graphics can be higher quality though.
Ah, ok. I think maybe I missunderstood them. Thanks.
Well, I'd be up for an European TL guild if we find enough people. I used to play mage in classic and bc. Raidet both until 4 or 5 bosses in naxx (then expansion came), and end sunwell in bc with a lot of server and faction firsts (then guild broke up and real life catched up). I wont be able (and willing) to grind as hardcore as I did back then, but I do plan raiding and pvping quite a lot.
On June 02 2019 03:41 Jan1997 wrote: I keep seeing people on the wow forums talking about an upgrade to the classic animations ever so slightly. Yet, when I watch streamers play classic beta I don't notice any of these upgrades.
BS or or real?
The standard graphics slider for classic settings is like a 6 or 7 on the 1-10 slider. You can slide it up to a 10.
I dont think any animations were updated as that requires blizzard changing the animations. The graphics can be higher quality though.
Ah, ok. I think maybe I missunderstood them. Thanks.
You can also use modern models and animations too, as a graphical option.
Regarding playing on servers out of region, its really not a bad experience in classic. With spell batching at like 400ms, having 100-200ms ping doesn't feel bad at all.
On June 02 2019 03:41 Jan1997 wrote: I keep seeing people on the wow forums talking about an upgrade to the classic animations ever so slightly. Yet, when I watch streamers play classic beta I don't notice any of these upgrades.
BS or or real?
The standard graphics slider for classic settings is like a 6 or 7 on the 1-10 slider. You can slide it up to a 10.
I dont think any animations were updated as that requires blizzard changing the animations. The graphics can be higher quality though.
Ah, ok. I think maybe I missunderstood them. Thanks.
You can also use modern models and animations too, as a graphical option.
Regarding playing on servers out of region, its really not a bad experience in classic. With spell batching at like 400ms, having 100-200ms ping doesn't feel bad at all.
I will have to double check, I didnt think you could use the modern stuff. I must have completely missed it.
On June 02 2019 03:41 Jan1997 wrote: I keep seeing people on the wow forums talking about an upgrade to the classic animations ever so slightly. Yet, when I watch streamers play classic beta I don't notice any of these upgrades.
BS or or real?
The standard graphics slider for classic settings is like a 6 or 7 on the 1-10 slider. You can slide it up to a 10.
I dont think any animations were updated as that requires blizzard changing the animations. The graphics can be higher quality though.
Ah, ok. I think maybe I missunderstood them. Thanks.
You can also use modern models and animations too, as a graphical option.
Regarding playing on servers out of region, its really not a bad experience in classic. With spell batching at like 400ms, having 100-200ms ping doesn't feel bad at all.
I will have to double check, I didnt think you could use the modern stuff. I must have completely missed it.
I'd find that ironic because I thought I read somewhere they disabled the ability to use the old models during Legion?
On June 02 2019 03:41 Jan1997 wrote: I keep seeing people on the wow forums talking about an upgrade to the classic animations ever so slightly. Yet, when I watch streamers play classic beta I don't notice any of these upgrades.
BS or or real?
The standard graphics slider for classic settings is like a 6 or 7 on the 1-10 slider. You can slide it up to a 10.
I dont think any animations were updated as that requires blizzard changing the animations. The graphics can be higher quality though.
Ah, ok. I think maybe I missunderstood them. Thanks.
You can also use modern models and animations too, as a graphical option.
Regarding playing on servers out of region, its really not a bad experience in classic. With spell batching at like 400ms, having 100-200ms ping doesn't feel bad at all.
I will have to double check, I didnt think you could use the modern stuff. I must have completely missed it.
I'd find that ironic because I thought I read somewhere they disabled the ability to use the old models during Legion?
Of this, I am quite certain they disabled it before legion. I remember just before I went hiatus at the end of MOP we could choose which model to use. By the time I came back, there was no such choice.
Blizz just announced that they've heard the community and will be making seperate language servers for English, German, French and Russian. I know that pushing many languages onto one server was an issue for lots of people so it's nice to hear that it will be split up more appropriately.
I was a little worried about newer players (that don't know how to dig through forums) ending up on a server which is "unofficially" ran by a language that they don't speak and not getting a good experience because of that.
On July 03 2019 22:27 Cyro wrote: Blizz just announced that they've heard the community and will be making seperate language servers for English, German, French and Russian. I know that pushing many languages onto one server was an issue for lots of people so it's nice to hear that it will be split up more appropriately.
I was a little worried about newer players (that don't know how to dig through forums) ending up on a server which is "unofficially" ran by a language that they don't speak and not getting a good experience because of that.
Wouldn't it be nice to have both kinds of servers? I do enjoy playing with folks from around the world including chinese etc^^ i think both can be good
On July 06 2019 02:19 Unleashing wrote: We do already have both kinds of servers, nobody's stopping a french person from playing on the regular european servers AFAIK
ok cool didnt know that, i dropped retail a very long time ago
There are English servers, French, German, Russian and all that in BFA but they all queue together, shard together etc even if they can't speak the same language so it's not so great at times. You can't control that sharding or cross-language grouping in any meaningful way.
It would have been a lot more problematic on Classic because everything is so server-based and you would be crippled if most groups on your server were french when you didn't speak that language for example.
What EU server are people rolling? I was thinking Gehennas (the new one) but im not sure yet.
I played on PvP back in the day, but i have so much less time that I'm considering PvE... any experience with that? I don't really do PvP all that much but the thought of random world PvP is nice. Getting ganked over and over with only 1h playtime isnt though...
world pvp is the reason i play the game, I'll roll some pvp server I don't know about server list yet usually, if you want to avoid getting ganked a lot, other than having some extra gear to defend yourself better you can also always go to a bit more remote places or also group with at least 1 more player, or generally be aware of the closest nearby ally and quickly defend + move towards him if attacked
I've played most of my time on WoW on PvP servers, I've tried it. I have so few good experiences with wPvP, I'll just stick to battlegrounds and duels for my PvP needs. And RP event battles arranged with guilds on the other faction of course.
World PvP is a pain sometimes, but the game is less exciting without it imo. Keep in mind everyone will be starting from lvl 1 meaning it won't be worthwhile for most people to go around ganking for the first few weeks (other than a few no-life south park characters). Also in vanilla PvP doesn't come up much until around lvl 30ish since you're mostly just sticking to Horde or Alliance areas for questing. It helps to have a good guild with people who are willing to help with a quest in a tough neighborhood too.
Iirc World PvP is only a real pain for Horde in Tarren Mill and Strangelthorn, because alliance tends to enter these Areas at a bit higher level and these are big zones that you can't/shouldn't avoid.
I still can't decide between Mage, Warlock or (S)priest... Shaman is out because i leveld one to 30 and that was horrible + a good friend wants to play one.
Mage just seems a bit boring but Teleports!.
Warlock is more to my liking but pet management annoys me but free mount and a moaning sex demon at my side!.
Spriest i allready played back in the days (healed in raids, melted faces everywhere else) and loved the class but gl trying to find random groups . Well, this has probably gotten a bit better but back during Vanilla i had Tanks leave before the final Boss in DM West because they realised i was shadow, with 0 wipes up until that point. Stuff like this, to a lesser extreme level, was normal.
On August 19 2019 11:16 TheFish7 wrote: Keep in mind everyone will be starting from lvl 1 meaning it won't be worthwhile for most people to go around ganking for the first few weeks
lul personally I do zero raids or even dungeons, i play the game for wpvp. I start as soon as I can near lvl 20, although it's good to have a few extra levels usually. My advice for people who want to do wpvp : if you want to have good fun in wpvp, it's good to do as much as you can, and even try to impact the whole area around you. You could only attack yellow+ players for more "fair" fights, but you'd likely get a lot less fighting this way especially while leveling up. The game actually allows green players to run from you if they play well, unless they get unlucky (depends on classes and ofc situation). If you do attack green players as well, you can have a lot more fighting going on and engage in interesting situations like 1vs2 and etc. I've had the most fun doing this RPG-pvp related and MMO in general, it's really what I play the game for. I could give more tips quickly like this : scout the areas you get into before engaging monsters and be aware of the wider place around you (who is around) including allies you could run towards if attacked or in a difficult position. Avoid letting monsters you attack put you at low health/mana especially since there are invisible classes around that could wait and wreck you then, one of the counters to that is to make it so you stay at high health and you can do that by attacking green monsters for example (and/or have enough extra strong gear so you're strong to monsters). When safe you can actually attack multiple green monsters at a time and level up quite efficiently, depending on your class (and get good value items, good quantity pretty fast), for example druid can do this too with swipe and hurricane and other stuff. Try to make extra gold at your level so that you can buy or get extra strong gear which will make you more able to do well in your wpvp-ing. You can get the starting honor you need for the first bunch of pvp items with only wpvp, but it's hard to rank really high that way after BGs come out due to unbalanced honor gain (i've made rank 6 : knight with 100% wpvp, it's a nice example rank target imo). However you don't actually need the high ranks to do well in pvp, I've beaten characters with rank10+ gear in straight duels without it. You don't need dungeon or raid gear even to beat them, and not so many people are so highly geared also. After AQ and especially Naxx come out, there is more imbalance with gear (which also simplifies fighting due to amount of burst, fights last shorter amount of time less spells cast and actions etc), you can offset it somewhat with dungeon gear apparently if you're not into raids like me. ok that's it for now gl hf^^
I somehow doubt "Dungeongear" can even save you from a T2 geared and PvP skilled class, let alone a Naxx one. It depends a bit on class but T1 often has horrible stats and there are some horrible purples in MC/BWL... But the people that take the good stuff are leagues above "dungeon" stuff.
yeah idk exactly about all the items I can't be arsed to do raids (or even dungeons usually lol) but you can take advantage of situation in wpvp so you get to win fights against the most geared chars up to Naxx as druid anyway, and then most chars aren't that big geared. But there are some major issues coming up with Naxx especially I usually stop playing at that point and look or wait for new server : P there are ways to counter the bigger geared chars if you instead have more buffs and/or more consumables, if you're into wpvp you're likely to have extra jujus or ungoro crystals etc
Hey all, going to be running on Fairbanks US, thought about putting together a guild <GSL Rejects> haha, anyone else already create their character on this server?
Hardcore! 32 people streaming 24/7 from level 1 until rag&ony are dead.
I'm seriously rethinking playing on pvp servers since it looks like all of them might be horde dominated. Even my current guild is almost entirely rerolling horde on classic
Hardcore! 32 people streaming 24/7 from level 1 until rag&ony are dead.
I'm seriously rethinking playing on pvp servers since it looks like all of them might be horde dominated. Even my current guild is almost entirely rerolling horde on classic
Wow that is awesome, I'll definitely check out that stream to see how they do!
I joined a PvP server since I've never done it before. All the PvP realms were full so I just picked the one I thought had the cooler name. Alliance on Herod but obviously if a bunch of other TL'ers are playing another server I can jump ship to that server
Hardcore! 32 people streaming 24/7 from level 1 until rag&ony are dead.
I'm seriously rethinking playing on pvp servers since it looks like all of them might be horde dominated. Even my current guild is almost entirely rerolling horde on classic
While I think its a cool idea, I just can't find myself hyped about them calling it world first. Like all of the content was done 15 years ago, so naming it world first is kinda misnaming what they are doing.
I personally think its fine for them to do this hardcore stream and just have fun with the game and enjoy themselves, but at some point I don't understand why they are trying to take it so seriously.
I really haven't been following much at all, haven't reserved names, don't know what the servers are like or how full "Full" really means. But what are the chances that, if some friends and I roll on one of the newer/lower pop servers, it'll be fucking stark dead in 2 months? Are the plans for BG to be crossrealm when they introduce them, or server-specific with potentially crazy queues and stuff.
I honestly can't remember what WoW 1.13 was like with regards to queues and cross-realm and pvp and any of that stuff. I don't think we really care about being on a "dead" server, we're not taking anything that seriously, but I don't want to be waiting hours for BGs in a couple months when we happen to have a little free time to play together
"We’ve been closely following the community discussion around this add-on for WoW Classic, as well as analyzing it to make sure we understand how it works. After careful examination, we believe the nature of ClassicLFG is incompatible with our social design for Classic. Thus, in an upcoming patch (in the weeks following launch), we will be adding restrictions to the Classic add-on API that will significantly limit this add-on and others like it.
In line with what we shared at BlizzCon last year, we intend to be very careful about allowing add-on functionality that might undermine aspects of the social dynamics that are core to the Classic experience, even in cases like this where it’s clear that the addon author had no ill intent and was simply trying to provide a service to the Classic community. Ultimately, if a streamlined group-finding system was something we considered compatible with Classic, we would have kept the modern Premade Group Finder tool rather than choosing to remove it from the Classic client.
It’s difficult to articulate a clear-cut rule for exactly when an add-on crosses the line. However, when an add-on goes beyond presenting information or providing aesthetic customization, and attempts to create an interconnected social network that relies on other players also using that same add-on, we are likely to scrutinize it particularly closely."
Yea good. That addon was threatening to run the "classic experience". Not all of the classic experience is going to be good by the way. But, uh, hard work builds character.
I'm pretty sad to see that the BFA GM team is being stretched to cover Classic as well. They've been infamously useless as of late (see https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/cun9ro/mythic_azshara_rank_4_essence/ for a recent example). Absolutely trash responses, no understanding of the problem and it's not something that it's possible for the player to fix or bypass without GM help, they're just screwed. Too often there's the anxiety of hoping that you won't run into some game bug which will take a two week ticket argument and a frontpage reddit post to resolve, if it ever gets fixed.
The response time for even simple issues like appealing an automatic silence/ban due to a mistake in the system or a clique of players abusing the report functions is also 72 hours at the moment (GM's citing pre-classic traffic.. yikes when the actual launch happens) and those same systems are being applied to Classic.
This is one area that's practically guaranteed to fall way short of the classic experience in a way that matters to me, yet almost nobody talks about it. I'd pay double sub for a dedicated GM team that plays the game and has live chat with a same-day response during certain business hours!
00:49 @cyro Ill probably start on one of the new english pvp servers and play alliance with some friends. I was really considering playing mage for a bit but then i remembered how annoying it was to be mage in vanilla with everyone begging for tps and water. Having to arrive at the raids early to start the waterfall for every single healer and caster in the raid zzz. So im still undecided what class to play as of now. Kinda wanna do tank but i dont like warriors :/
On August 24 2019 12:21 TheEmulator wrote: People wanting retail quality of life stuff should just play retail.
Similar addons existed in vanilla, everquest1 even added a similar LFG system back in 2003. The core of it is a listing of groups that are looking for people, thats not even vaguely a modern wow idea.
A simple addon that lets you purely list "looking for more for X Y Z" in lieu of spamming trade/LFG in game seems harmless enough. You still need to manually contact, manually invite, get everyone to the instance/raid, etc. You're just cutting out the trade spam lol, and as a bonus maybe letting people filter the search by the instance or activity they're interested in. More extraneous things like some sort of gear level or automatic raid populating I can see why they'd be toeing the line.
That being said, I don't personally care either way. I have no idea what addons to expect to work, so I'm going in with assumptions that I might not use any at all. I will be interested to see where they keep drawing the line moving forward though, out of curiosity.
On August 24 2019 20:18 Warri wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahWiIOm4uXw 00:49 @cyro Ill probably start on one of the new english pvp servers and play alliance with some friends. I was really considering playing mage for a bit but then i remembered how annoying it was to be mage in vanilla with everyone begging for tps and water. Having to arrive at the raids early to start the waterfall for every single healer and caster in the raid zzz. So im still undecided what class to play as of now. Kinda wanna do tank but i dont like warriors :/
On August 24 2019 12:21 TheEmulator wrote: People wanting retail quality of life stuff should just play retail.
Similar addons existed in vanilla, everquest1 even added a similar LFG system back in 2003. The core of it is a listing of groups that are looking for people, thats not even vaguely a modern wow idea.
The addon that they're talking about acted as a replacement for the LFG dungeon queue in modern WoW, where you just told it that you wanted to run e.g. deadmines and your role and it would invite 4 other people for you who happened to queue up.
On August 24 2019 20:18 Warri wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahWiIOm4uXw 00:49 @cyro Ill probably start on one of the new english pvp servers and play alliance with some friends. I was really considering playing mage for a bit but then i remembered how annoying it was to be mage in vanilla with everyone begging for tps and water. Having to arrive at the raids early to start the waterfall for every single healer and caster in the raid zzz. So im still undecided what class to play as of now. Kinda wanna do tank but i dont like warriors :/
On August 24 2019 12:21 TheEmulator wrote: People wanting retail quality of life stuff should just play retail.
Similar addons existed in vanilla, everquest1 even added a similar LFG system back in 2003. The core of it is a listing of groups that are looking for people, thats not even vaguely a modern wow idea.
The addon that they're talking about acted as a replacement for the LFG dungeon queue in modern WoW, where you just told it that you wanted to run e.g. deadmines and your role and it would invite 4 other people for you who happened to queue up.
The curseforge description of the addon mentioned by name in the blue post (ClassicLFG) specifically says it doesn't do that. www.curseforge.com I suppose they could be lying tho.
edit: none of this is helped by the fact that blizzard gave almost no detail about what exactly is wrong with the addon in question. What I got from the blue post is the that they object to addons which communicate with each other using custom chat channels because it excludes people without the addon, but not only is that not particularly necessary for this addon to function, if they disallow that they are gonna hit alot more than just LFG addons.
On August 25 2019 00:07 Duka08 wrote: A simple addon that lets you purely list "looking for more for X Y Z" in lieu of spamming trade/LFG in game seems harmless enough. You still need to manually contact, manually invite, get everyone to the instance/raid, etc. You're just cutting out the trade spam lol, and as a bonus maybe letting people filter the search by the instance or activity they're interested in. More extraneous things like some sort of gear level or automatic raid populating I can see why they'd be toeing the line.
That is literally no different from retail mythic dungeon lfg.
On August 24 2019 20:18 Warri wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahWiIOm4uXw 00:49 @cyro Ill probably start on one of the new english pvp servers and play alliance with some friends. I was really considering playing mage for a bit but then i remembered how annoying it was to be mage in vanilla with everyone begging for tps and water. Having to arrive at the raids early to start the waterfall for every single healer and caster in the raid zzz. So im still undecided what class to play as of now. Kinda wanna do tank but i dont like warriors :/
Perfect! Lol
On August 24 2019 23:54 ThaddeusK wrote:
On August 24 2019 12:21 TheEmulator wrote: People wanting retail quality of life stuff should just play retail.
Similar addons existed in vanilla, everquest1 even added a similar LFG system back in 2003. The core of it is a listing of groups that are looking for people, thats not even vaguely a modern wow idea.
The addon that they're talking about acted as a replacement for the LFG dungeon queue in modern WoW, where you just told it that you wanted to run e.g. deadmines and your role and it would invite 4 other people for you who happened to queue up.
The curseforge description of the addon mentioned by name in the blue post (ClassicLFG) specifically says it doesn't do that. www.curseforge.com I suppose they could be lying tho.
Here is footage showing the functionality ingame, it did indeed do that and those functions are what started the big debate a few days ago.
It might not any more, i imagine the author would rather remove a few offending features than throw all of their work in the trash
By the bliz announcement wording, isnt it the behind the scenes addon communication that's being chopped? gonna have a ton of impact.
Also I'm a bit iffy on how the community is actually going to be, with the servers being this large. played on nostalrius, and anonymity was possible if you weren't raiding.
I think that functionality is way too much for classic (the clip on last page).
I am pretty sure that if all it did was allow you to create a thing that allowed people to message you (and see what you had in your group for role tank/heal/dps), it might be okay.
I personally shrug at the add on. The servers are massive compared to original wow (they said low pop servers today have more people than vanilla full servers), so the wait time in trade chat is going to be way less. Also it might have its own adverse affect in that trade chat is going to go way faster and thus people's message are just missed entirely.
On August 25 2019 09:04 ThaddeusK wrote: Calling auto-invite a replacement for dungeon finder is completely ridiculous unless you wanna run BRD with 3 warriors
The dungeon finder in WoW from 3.3 to 8.2.5 never paid any attention to class comp other than giving you a tank, a healer and 3 dps. If the addon didn't do that already then it'd be easy to do as it was already reporting down to the exact talent layouts of players.
It's been a huge focus in the classic vs live debate since the start.
Sure, you could make an addon that does auto-matchmaking, the only way blizzard breaks such an addon is removing the ability for addons to interact with chat, but blizzard called out an addon by name that doesn't do that.
On August 26 2019 00:33 ThaddeusK wrote: Sure, you could make an addon that does auto-matchmaking, the only way blizzard breaks such an addon is removing the ability for addons to interact with chat, but blizzard called out an addon by name that doesn't do that.
Read up the thread, we already talked about this and posted a video of the addon doing it.
I'm surprised that they were even able to make an addon like that given that Blizzard has repeatedly nuked similar attempts at group-making addons for world quests in Legion+BFA.
Automatically forming a group between specific users of your addon only is a big problem.
On August 26 2019 00:33 ThaddeusK wrote: Sure, you could make an addon that does auto-matchmaking, the only way blizzard breaks such an addon is removing the ability for addons to interact with chat, but blizzard called out an addon by name that doesn't do that.
Read up the thread, we already talked about this and posted a video of the addon doing it.
I'm surprised that they were even able to make an addon like that given that Blizzard has repeatedly nuked similar attempts at group-making addons for world quests in Legion+BFA.
Automatically forming a group between specific users of your addon only is a big problem.
On August 25 2019 09:04 ThaddeusK wrote: Calling auto-invite a replacement for dungeon finder is completely ridiculous unless you wanna run BRD with 3 warriors, a rogue, and a mage.
On August 26 2019 00:33 ThaddeusK wrote: Sure, you could make an addon that does auto-matchmaking, the only way blizzard breaks such an addon is removing the ability for addons to interact with chat, but blizzard called out an addon by name that doesn't do that.
Read up the thread, we already talked about this and posted a video of the addon doing it.
I'm surprised that they were even able to make an addon like that given that Blizzard has repeatedly nuked similar attempts at group-making addons for world quests in Legion+BFA.
Automatically forming a group between specific users of your addon only is a big problem.
On August 25 2019 09:04 ThaddeusK wrote: Calling auto-invite a replacement for dungeon finder is completely ridiculous unless you wanna run BRD with 3 warriors, a rogue, and a mage.
The dungeon finder in WoW from 3.3 to 8.2.5 never paid any attention to class comp other than giving you a tank, a healer and 3 dps. If the addon didn't do that already then it'd be easy to do as it was already reporting down to the exact talent layouts of players.
On August 25 2019 09:04 ThaddeusK wrote: Calling auto-invite a replacement for dungeon finder is completely ridiculous unless you wanna run BRD with 3 warriors
The dungeon finder in WoW from 3.3 to 8.2.5 never paid any attention to class comp other than giving you a tank, a healer and 3 dps. If the addon didn't do that already then it'd be easy to do as it was already reporting down to the exact talent layouts of players.
It's been a huge focus in the classic vs live debate since the start.
I'd be impressed if it could do that seeing as that generally requires you to be within inspect range of someone.
On August 25 2019 09:04 ThaddeusK wrote: Calling auto-invite a replacement for dungeon finder is completely ridiculous unless you wanna run BRD with 3 warriors
The dungeon finder in WoW from 3.3 to 8.2.5 never paid any attention to class comp other than giving you a tank, a healer and 3 dps. If the addon didn't do that already then it'd be easy to do as it was already reporting down to the exact talent layouts of players.
It's been a huge focus in the classic vs live debate since the start.
I'd be impressed if it could do that seeing as that generally requires you to be within inspect range of someone.
On August 26 2019 00:33 ThaddeusK wrote: Sure, you could make an addon that does auto-matchmaking, the only way blizzard breaks such an addon is removing the ability for addons to interact with chat, but blizzard called out an addon by name that doesn't do that.
Read up the thread, we already talked about this and posted a video of the addon doing it.
I'm surprised that they were even able to make an addon like that given that Blizzard has repeatedly nuked similar attempts at group-making addons for world quests in Legion+BFA.
Automatically forming a group between specific users of your addon only is a big problem.
On August 25 2019 09:04 ThaddeusK wrote: Calling auto-invite a replacement for dungeon finder is completely ridiculous unless you wanna run BRD with 3 warriors, a rogue, and a mage.
The dungeon finder in WoW from 3.3 to 8.2.5 never paid any attention to class comp other than giving you a tank, a healer and 3 dps. If the addon didn't do that already then it'd be easy to do as it was already reporting down to the exact talent layouts of players.
On August 26 2019 00:33 ThaddeusK wrote: Sure, you could make an addon that does auto-matchmaking, the only way blizzard breaks such an addon is removing the ability for addons to interact with chat, but blizzard called out an addon by name that doesn't do that.
Did they say anything about whether it will be possible to transfer realms (for money) at all? Im really undecided where to start right now and i fear that the people i start with will quit. :/
On August 26 2019 09:30 Warri wrote: Did they say anything about whether it will be possible to transfer realms (for money) at all? Im really undecided where to start right now and i fear that the people i start with will quit. :/
Kinda a mess right now. It's launch day and i have to decide if i'm gonna play on a realm that's expecting multi-hour queues for weeks or one that might not have a healthy population because it's not being created until 5 hours before launch, no in-between.. that's no easy choice to make. Nobody that i know and very few organizations are jumping ship to those new realms.
At this time, all realms that have a Full or High population tag are expected to experience extended queues. We urge players on realms marked Full or High to plan to play on one of these new realms
^Every EU realm that's not RP has been "Full" for a while.
Yea they really need to add some servers, we're already at pretty much all full and it will only get worse. I am starting to think they've underestimated how popular this game is going to be.
On August 26 2019 11:31 TheFish7 wrote: Yea they really need to add some servers, we're already at pretty much all full and it will only get worse. I am starting to think they've underestimated how popular this game is going to be.
There's a Normal and PVP realm for both east and west coast US coming up, but only like 5 hours before the game is live. There probably won't be enough time to assess how populated they will be until it's live.
On August 26 2019 15:24 Emnjay808 wrote: I’m positive there will be more players on classic than current expansion within a month
Naa i doubt it, Twitch have those paid things for streamers bounties? Where the offer money to pay a game, WoW classic is going to be one of them. After Method world first race to 60 and kill Onyxia etc happens it will be dying down. Then when the hype is dying down Blizzcon will be announced alongside a new expansion for live as well as the final raid information, thus that will get people back.
I do think it will be successful but i don't think it will out do live at all. Blizzard won't care either anyway, a subscriber to them is a subscriber!
On August 26 2019 15:43 GTR wrote:
smh smh, US advantage as usual on race to worlds first with a nice casual 3pm pdt release time! (lol joke) Would be so sick having a 3pm live time though damn!
but you login at 12 and queue and get up after a good nights sleep and check queue, eat breakfast, read the news, walk the dog, check queue, prepare lunch, see if you got in yet.
How soon should we expect to try and get in a queue? My friends and I are going with Blaumeux or whatever the lower pop server is but I mean, should I try to log on more than an hour out lol
Edit: and isn't there a risk that once you get in if you idle the character select you get kicked back out?
The smart Thing to do is don't play at all on at least day 1, probably better day 1-3 .
Lower pop server won't mean shit if entire guilds/friendsgroups are all sitting in a queue for Server XYZ and just jump over to the one with lower pop because they are tired of waiting.
On August 27 2019 00:21 Duka08 wrote: How soon should we expect to try and get in a queue? My friends and I are going with Blaumeux or whatever the lower pop server is but I mean, should I try to log on more than an hour out lol
Edit: and isn't there a risk that once you get in if you idle the character select you get kicked back out?
Yeah they have a disconnect timer on there which is relatively short. I'm not sure how you can pause/reset it
They forgot to raise the character creation limit on EU so it was a bit awkward to grab names on the new servers. We couldn't create more than 3 and the servers where i have some of those characters are refusing to load so i can't delete them or make more atm
On August 27 2019 00:21 Duka08 wrote: How soon should we expect to try and get in a queue? My friends and I are going with Blaumeux or whatever the lower pop server is but I mean, should I try to log on more than an hour out lol
Edit: and isn't there a risk that once you get in if you idle the character select you get kicked back out?
Yeah they have a disconnect timer on there which is relatively short. I'm not sure how you can pause/reset it
My understanding is 30 min time-out at character selection screen. So gotta login at 2:35 PST to not timeout.
Just called bfa raid a bit early to log in classic, 3k4k6k8k10k 19k queues (still 1hr before it opens) climbing fast. Here we go bois and grills :D
Mograine (one of the new PVP servers) has exploded to Full as well after being added 5hrs ago. The other three new PVP servers and the new PVE server still have room if EU-English are willing to move to them.
WoW passed Fortnite on google trends for the first time in years (since fortnite's ascension), the EU bnet shop is currently down and WoW is #1 by a mile on Twitch with 600k live viewers, all numbers still rising sharply during launch countdown. Looks like a good night (:
On August 26 2019 15:24 Emnjay808 wrote: I’m positive there will be more players on classic than current expansion within a month
Classic will be more populated on launch, and within 1-2 months it will drastically reduce when the retail people that want to M+ and mythic raid go back. I think Asmongold even said he was just going to play classic for 1-2 months at most.
I just checked the german PvP severs. Server one (old one with tons of people): Waiting time: 324 minutes. New one (released like 4 days ago): Waiting time: 56 minutes.
Gotta go to sleep now but... well.. Never play on patch/release/event day .
People have actually started to form ques for the scorpion boss in durotar by standing in line. This is the most insane shit i've ever seen lol. Classic already changing the social rules.
On August 27 2019 08:47 Jan1997 wrote: People have actually started to form ques for the scorpion boss in durotar by standing in line. This is the most insane shit i've ever seen lol. Classic already changing the social rules.
I played when burning crusade came out and this happened for all the bloodelf starting zone quests that involved killing a single guy.
On August 27 2019 08:47 Jan1997 wrote: People have actually started to form ques for the scorpion boss in durotar by standing in line. This is the most insane shit i've ever seen lol. Classic already changing the social rules.
I played when burning crusade came out and this happened for all the bloodelf starting zone quests that involved killing a single guy.
huhu queues are crazy, they had to add a FR pvp server but it's gotten on huge queue in less than 24h so they added another one yet. First one was very laggy when I got on it. I guess things will take some few days to stabilize a bit. FR pvp server #1 is on over 5 hours queue and #2 1h30 right now huhu
So how long before this becomes playable, I wonder? I'm holding out for now, will try when the servers aren't a total mess and you can actually tag a mob.
also surely at some point it's better to just go grinding in a place far away from quest mobs than queuing for 1 quest mob? I don't think the quests later in the zone have prereqs in the first area (as far as I remember).
Yeah once youre past the queue its running decently now. Had no problems, but i still quit after making it to lvl 6. Too boring, especially if you dont have a set goal.
We were going on Firemaw EU but because we all work and have other commitments our queue times are like extortionate, so we have re rolled now to Ashbringer EU instead which is giving me a queue of 20 minutes now at 7pm BST which isn't too bad. However the issue is some of these servers might be dead when all the hype is done in 1-2 months time which could cause issues in the future, i hope not!
Anyway if anyone is Horde on Ashbringe ill be around to play with and my friends
I've done my share of running through classic quests(got partway through loremaster in WOTLK), but the scary amount of time that I put into the game in the year that I played worries me now that I'm a decade and a bit further into life, and putting 4-8 hours a day into a video game just isn't in the cards any more.
Still super tempted to do it for nostalgia reasons though.
On August 28 2019 02:36 Garrl wrote: So how long before this becomes playable, I wonder? I'm holding out for now, will try when the servers aren't a total mess and you can actually tag a mob.
also surely at some point it's better to just go grinding in a place far away from quest mobs than queuing for 1 quest mob? I don't think the quests later in the zone have prereqs in the first area (as far as I remember).
After a couple hours on Nethergarde it actually became very playable - only real issues that i had was the 1 hour level 1-5 time because of not being able to tag anything without having some instant-cast classes in your group. Lots of lairs kicked in, no queues on launch night.
I went to bed for like 12 hours and now that we're into day 2 peak times we're seeing queues of up to 7 hours on the big realms but only 20 mins on nethergarde which is totally fine.
Because of the lairing system being server-wide you'd usually get 90% of your lair filled with dudes in the starting zone so main cities and the 10+ zones were actually ghost towns when i logged off. They're probably stuffed with players by now.
They were conservative but even then, too much margin for error i think. Distribution would have been much better if we started with 30% of the realms instead of 15%
They have server merging/transition technology since... During fucking Classic? They could easily have gone save and then just merged servers. Like, the reasonable thing to do.
Like this they are alienating all the "wasn't really interested but will give it a shot" people hard. I will still play, i don't even mind much, the situation is just hilariously horrible.I didn't expect to see much playtime in the first 2-3 days because i can only play during prime time, now that it's so bad? I doubt i will be able to get into it during the weekend....
That would ruin the server communities and the whole immersion. That is one of, if not THE, most important difference from retail that the classic player crowd wants from all this shenanigan.
I only took Friday off work because I knew the servers would be laggy and overloaded to begin with. I'd rather they have long queues than have dead servers in the future, little bit of sacrifice for the greater good right?
Anyways, I am going to do that remote teamviewer thing to log in from work tomorrow... It feels cheap but everyone is doing it. I'd like to play when I get home from work.
On August 28 2019 06:08 youngjiddle wrote: I only took Friday off work because I knew the servers would be laggy and overloaded to begin with. I'd rather they have long queues than have dead servers in the future, little bit of sacrifice for the greater good right?
Anyways, I am going to do that remote teamviewer thing to log in from work tomorrow... It feels cheap but everyone is doing it. I'd like to play when I get home from work.
Yeah, its really the only option. It is not possible to try to login when you want to play.
On August 28 2019 05:17 Zaros wrote: Well the queue times are ridiculous but I guess its a typical blizzard launch, If its going to carry on like this I probably wont bother.
The queue times are only high on certain servers, extremely populated servers or low queue - pick one!
Performance has actually been great for me, world server is very obviously much more responsive and consistent ever since i hit level 5 and the initial wave of thousands of simultaneous logins + layer splits got over with, actually better than i've seen in WoW for years.
When you have 15ms ping on classic it actually means 15ms ping and not "well i'l think about casting the spell 0.25 seconds later, maybe play the animation and sound but not actually cast it sometimes" bullshit that we get with BFA's version of sharding. At this point i think that the CPU or other resource load on the servers due to moving people between phases etc plays a large role in that horrible server processing lag that has plagued the live game for a long time now.
Also easier on the FPS which is always nice, both CPU and GPU load only a fraction of live.
On August 28 2019 05:17 Zaros wrote: Well the queue times are ridiculous but I guess its a typical blizzard launch, If its going to carry on like this I probably wont bother.
The queue times are only high on certain servers, extremely populated servers or low queue - pick one!
Performance has actually been great for me, world server is very obviously much more responsive and consistent ever since i hit level 5 and the initial wave of thousands of simultaneous logins + layer splits got over with
Are you on a lower pop server? Or was it just a quiet time for EU?
My performance is great once I'm actually in game but I have friends across 3-4 US servers that all have 5-10k+ queues still. All of which weren't from the "original" batch, just ones added in the last couple days. The rate seems to be consistent around 1000 queue drop per hour or so funny enough, so yeah, queues of 5k+ means multiple hours, even with large chunks of people leaving due to zone crashes or whatever (that's how I got in today around dinner time, had already been waiting over an hour from 5k to 2.5k ish and then suddenly got in, friend at 4k said he dropped to <1k lol)
The questing is still busy and frustrating at times, waiting for named mobs or certain pickups to spawn, but I guess that's to be expected until everyone spreads out. But the stability is there it seems. Just that initial wall to get in in the first place that's crazy... Don't know what they'll do.
Performance ingame is great and I could do most of the Quests in Deathknell whiteout any real issues or waiting times. I skipped 2 Quests because those weren't worth it due to the crowd/low spawn rate (killing 12 skelletons and getting the Boxes). The few i could start in/around Brill were a breeze.
The waiting times are ridiculous, the 3 German servers i tried all had +50.00 minutes… So probably more like 80 minutes because that timer ain't worth shit.
And after a bit over an hour i got disconnected (no error on my side) and sat immediatly in the next 7X Minute queue, it was bedtime anyway so i didn't care but this is really harming the launch.
On August 28 2019 05:17 Zaros wrote: Well the queue times are ridiculous but I guess its a typical blizzard launch, If its going to carry on like this I probably wont bother.
The queue times are only high on certain servers, extremely populated servers or low queue - pick one!
Performance has actually been great for me, world server is very obviously much more responsive and consistent ever since i hit level 5 and the initial wave of thousands of simultaneous logins + layer splits got over with
Are you on a lower pop server? Or was it just a quiet time for EU?
My performance is great once I'm actually in game but I have friends across 3-4 US servers that all have 5-10k+ queues still. All of which weren't from the "original" batch, just ones added in the last couple days. The rate seems to be consistent around 1000 queue drop per hour or so funny enough, so yeah, queues of 5k+ means multiple hours, even with large chunks of people leaving due to zone crashes or whatever (that's how I got in today around dinner time, had already been waiting over an hour from 5k to 2.5k ish and then suddenly got in, friend at 4k said he dropped to <1k lol)
The questing is still busy and frustrating at times, waiting for named mobs or certain pickups to spawn, but I guess that's to be expected until everyone spreads out. But the stability is there it seems. Just that initial wall to get in in the first place that's crazy... Don't know what they'll do.
Couple hours after peak when i showed up my server had a half hour queue and there was a pvp server open with no queue at all, the new one.
When actually ingame though the server performance is shockingly good compared to BFA.
I tried one of the new Servers. For german PvP they planned to start with 1, then upped it to 2 a week before launch. There now exist at least 5 german PvP Servers. Even the ones that yesterday evening had "medium" population had long wait times. It also doesn't really help you when many people you want to play with allready have decided on a server… "Just go to a low pop one" yeah right.
Yeah, most of the people that i knew before wanted to play on Shazzrah or Golemagg, i couldn't even get them to compromise onto Gehenass(?), the third of what are now thirteen english pvp servers. Look who's laughing now!
On August 28 2019 19:10 Velr wrote: Wetlands was the point on which i decided i will never ever play alliance. What a fucking horrible and boring zone :D.
The first time I got there I agreed, but the second time I liked it a lot, big LotR vibes
Queues are getting longer every day. Yesterday, I entered queue at 1 PM with 8100. Today, strangely, roughly the same queue of 8200 at 1030 AM. Pretty crazy.
On August 29 2019 04:29 Mohdoo wrote: Queues are getting longer every day. Yesterday, I entered queue at 1 PM with 8100. Today, strangely, roughly the same queue of 8200 at 1030 AM. Pretty crazy.
Mine seems about the same on Herod today as it was yesterday.
I forgot leveling was this bad. So...much...walking in durotar after you get out of Senjin village. Not to mention all the confusing ravines and lack of connecting quests. 8 to 11 took me ages
With hotfixes that we are currently deploying to all WoW Classic realms, we are substantially increasing the number of players that can be simultaneously logged in and playing. We expect this to result in smaller queues for realms that have large queues, and some realms should no longer have queues at all.
We will closely monitor performance and stability throughout this process.
Thank you very much.
Hotfix killed my server. Flawless flawless flawless and then dead lol
So...much...walking in durotar
Yeah, makes me remember why i appreciated the 3 second cast time +60% runspeed mount so much.
I’m enjoying leveling my cooking and alchemy. Wow classic really slows downs things for u to stop and “smell the flowers” (quite literally for me cause I’m a herbalist).
Also getting ur first stat-optimized green is orgasmic.
On August 29 2019 05:02 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I forgot leveling was this bad. So...much...walking in durotar after you get out of Senjin village. Not to mention all the confusing ravines and lack of connecting quests. 8 to 11 took me ages
Not to mention Org is the only flightpoint lol
I think if you want to, you can dodge a lot of walking by for example skipping doing all the quests. You can level efficiently without even questing much or at all if you want.
Yeah I forgot how much xp just killing monsters is worth compared to quest xp. It's no wonder every guide says "be sure to kill everything within your level range that you pass by", especially with no mounts til 40 lol. I'm sure just going to a dense spot and killing monsters without too much interruption is on par with actually questing, and rewards are so minor/inconsistent compared to the structure of modern WoW. AND long quest chains don't always end in some huge reward so it's not really worth stringing yourself along.
I'm soft-speccing myself for aoe frost so in the 30s and 40s I can just go aoe grind a bit when I want to. Hit 20 last night but haven't gone to train yet, so many spells to buy lol. I've been skipping the not-as-useful stuff and it STILL feels like it's keepin me poor
I usually do a mix of some questing (some quest items are good) and some grinds and definitely make trips to auction house often cause you can make so much more money that way also if you have gathering etc.. there is room to make extra gold for buying nice items / a few blue items kinda early to be stronger, I do that often for wpvp (at the cost of some /played leveling speed, well wpvp itself takes from it also ofc :D but you get stronger, and then you grind faster and more efficiently and defend yourself better against attackers too)
On August 29 2019 23:53 farvacola wrote: I’m bumbling around as a holy priest leveling very sub-optimally, and I don’t mind it one bit lol.
Same, but as a hunter. Me and my pet may not be particularly competent, but we have a good time. I think my pet has died at least 800 times. Noble creature.
On August 31 2019 03:46 Pandemona wrote: Haha guy who got world first is my irl friends guild member haha what a champ! Method people crying saying he account shared when he didn;t lol
What proof is there he didn't? He played without much sleep while doing really boring farming non-stop that isn't possible without attention. Also afaik he had some decently long periods where he didn't speak (+ no cam ofc).
I think Method cares more about the Ragnaros race but I kinda doubt they'll win that as well, on average they're pretty behind in comparison to some other guilds like ONSLAUGHT (Alkaizerx's guid).
Btw I'm assuming MC is going to be a 40 person raid, right? Way tougher to get that many people to work well together and be at 60 with reasonable gear, gonna be interesting.
On August 31 2019 03:46 Pandemona wrote: Haha guy who got world first is my irl friends guild member haha what a champ! Method people crying saying he account shared when he didn;t lol
What proof is there he didn't? He played without much sleep while doing really boring farming non-stop that isn't possible without attention. Also afaik he had some decently long periods where he didn't speak (+ no cam ofc).
I think Method cares more about the Ragnaros race but I kinda doubt they'll win that as well, on average they're pretty behind in comparison to some other guilds like ONSLAUGHT (Alkaizerx's guid).
Btw I'm assuming MC is going to be a 40 person raid, right? Way tougher to get that many people to work well together and be at 60 with reasonable gear, gonna be interesting.
Classic raids are 40 max but especially MC can be done with less and lower levels. 30+ people level 58+ can get you a long way.
And yes I would assume he account shared, but then the world first 60 was always going to be someone that account shared.
But Method complaining is lol when there is a clip of one of them walking around pressing space bar on computers of people who are sleeping to stop them from getting logged out.
Well, that would depend on the version of classic they're using. I remember when our guild was one of the server first to enter it, we needed to get fire res gear badly to not get fucked and it wasn't even possible to craft most of it until a later patch iirc (and that required lots of farm & reputation that didn't come quickly at time). I imagine it got easier later, I stopped raiding pretty quickly (way before the next instance got released) so I don't know. Also addons probably help too, I don't remember we used any.
On August 31 2019 04:55 HolydaKing wrote: Well, that would depend on the version of classic they're using. I remember when our guild was one of the server first to enter it, we needed to get fire res gear badly to not get fucked and it wasn't even possible to craft most of it until a later patch iirc (and that required lots of farm & reputation that didn't come quickly at time). I imagine it got easier later, I stopped raiding pretty quickly (way before the next instance got released) so I don't know.
Classic is 1.12 which is the last patch before TBC. Means talent and gear changes make the game easier then when MC was still originally relevant.
On August 31 2019 04:55 HolydaKing wrote: Well, that would depend on the version of classic they're using. I remember when our guild was one of the server first to enter it, we needed to get fire res gear badly to not get fucked and it wasn't even possible to craft most of it until a later patch iirc (and that required lots of farm & reputation that didn't come quickly at time). I imagine it got easier later, I stopped raiding pretty quickly (way before the next instance got released) so I don't know.
Classic is 1.12 which is the last patch before TBC. Means talent and gear changes make the game easier then when MC was still originally relevant.
OK, thanks for info. If it's indeed as easy as you make it sound, I don't see how Method has any shot. Afaik for example ONSLAUGHT has way higher average level of their highest 40 guys, and I bet there are many more guilds that aren't streaming.
On August 31 2019 03:46 Pandemona wrote: Haha guy who got world first is my irl friends guild member haha what a champ! Method people crying saying he account shared when he didn;t lol
What proof is there he didn't? He played without much sleep while doing really boring farming non-stop that isn't possible without attention. Also afaik he had some decently long periods where he didn't speak (+ no cam ofc).
I think Method cares more about the Ragnaros race but I kinda doubt they'll win that as well, on average they're pretty behind in comparison to some other guilds like ONSLAUGHT (Alkaizerx's guid).
Btw I'm assuming MC is going to be a 40 person raid, right? Way tougher to get that many people to work well together and be at 60 with reasonable gear, gonna be interesting.
Classic raids are 40 max but especially MC can be done with less and lower levels. 30+ people level 58+ can get you a long way.
And yes I would assume he account shared, but then the world first 60 was always going to be someone that account shared.
But Method complaining is lol when there is a clip of one of them walking around pressing space bar on computers of people who are sleeping to stop them from getting logged out.
Streaming but no more cam and no more talking is as close to admitting you are account sharing as it gets. There is no way he did it solo.
He has no one to account share with family wise and blizzard can spot if its diffo ips etc so unless he went real hardcore to hide it im not convinced he did. Everyone in his guild and on team speak said they don't know of anyone he could have shared with. His mom was moaning at him mid stream iirc for playing to much etc cuz he went like 30 hours for day one, had 7 hours sleep then went again etc. He played alot of classic servers and really did his work in getting the speed leveling.
He had an average downtime of 4 hours for sleeping daily He has done a TON of speedruns on private servers and knows more than most about it For most of the time he was only 2 levels ahead of Kennymarsh, who streamed with facecam, when kenny stopped at 55 joker was 57
And for the last 2 levels he abused the hell out of layers, I don't see why it's so unrealistic that he did it without account sharing when we know kennymarsh did it on his own with not nearly as much practice
On August 31 2019 07:47 Unleashing wrote: He had an average downtime of 4 hours for sleeping daily He has done a TON of speedruns on private servers and knows more than most about it For most of the time he was only 2 levels ahead of Kennymarsh, who streamed with facecam, when kenny stopped at 55 joker was 57
And for the last 2 levels he abused the hell out of layers, I don't see why it's so unrealistic that he did it without account sharing when we know kennymarsh did it on his own with not nearly as much practice
On August 31 2019 07:23 Pandemona wrote: He has no one to account share with family wise and blizzard can spot if its diffo ips etc so unless he went real hardcore to hide it im not convinced he did. Everyone in his guild and on team speak said they don't know of anyone he could have shared with. His mom was moaning at him mid stream iirc for playing to much etc cuz he went like 30 hours for day one, had 7 hours sleep then went again etc. He played alot of classic servers and really did his work in getting the speed leveling.
I only watched a bit at the end, but he talked about his brother who wanted to play the last stretch? Made me assume he was switching with him from time to time.
There is no way he acc shared. it was all assumed by the method commentator who later apologized. He literally streamed the whole thing, and talked regularly, go watch yourself. So stupid when rumors about cheating gets spread
Slowly getting ready to wpvp on my main and created a few alts on 2 other servers that I might wpvp with also later^^ actually had a lvl10 vs lvl10 1v1 wpvp fight in Moonglade that was nice :D (at Bear spirit :D I attacked Tauren guy in front of me lul)
Managed to rip 3 times to mobs until lvl 10. Trying to deal with some orange mobs / go through area earlier, afk, aggro mistake out of potion.
We've gone from 2 english pvp servers to 15 now (:
Actually wouldn't surprise me if classic concurrents spiked way above BFA's. Obviously it won't stay relatively as high but the hype train has no brakes
Yeah my server has no queue no which is Ashbringer EU which has changed already. Will be very interesting to see how long the hype goes because the grind is so insane xD
Who the fuck are those people? I only recognize rikh from that roster. And thats way sooner than even i expected, and i thought he will fall end of first id or second.
I expected the gap between hitting 60 and clearing content to be pretty small. I always got the impression, even back in the day, that the barrier to entry when it came to doing MC and ZG was not really gear-related but just whether or not people knew what they were doing. Leveling gear (presumably, mostly) right into MC doesn't surprise me with how prepared these guys are.
On September 01 2019 11:10 Duka08 wrote: I expected the gap between hitting 60 and clearing content to be pretty small. I always got the impression, even back in the day, that the barrier to entry when it came to doing MC and ZG was not really gear-related but just whether or not people knew what they were doing. Leveling gear (presumably, mostly) right into MC doesn't surprise me with how prepared these guys are.
They got Ony too before the reset
and yeah, MC looks hilariously easy compared to BFA. They took down Rag in like 90 seconds to 2 minute with a large fraction of the raid being level 57 with questing greens.
On August 29 2019 05:02 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I forgot leveling was this bad. So...much...walking in durotar after you get out of Senjin village. Not to mention all the confusing ravines and lack of connecting quests. 8 to 11 took me ages
Not to mention Org is the only flightpoint lol
Aye, levelling takes twice as long in classic.They halved the level time around 2008-9 i think it was? I'm on fairbanks.
Wow, Molten Core got nerfed a lot compared to its initial state to be cleared that fast. That's super disappointing. I'm guessing only Ahn'Qiraj will be decently tough as that's the last instance in classic and the patch at the Classic servers are already in that state. Probably not either, as there have been a few patches after that as well.
On September 01 2019 16:25 HolydaKing wrote: Wow, Molten Core got nerfed a lot compared to its initial state to be cleared that fast. That's super disappointing. I'm guessing only Ahn'Qiraj will be decently tough as that's the last instance in classic and the patch at the Classic servers are already in that state. Probably not either, as there have been a few patches after that as well.
I'm gonna take a wild guess that you don't know what you're talking about if you think AQ is the last instance of classic? Lol
Also it's not that MC was nerfed, it's that classic raids were never hard, especially not MC.
Reminder Onyxia, also a 40 man raid, was 4-manned while classic was current.
The hardest part of the hardest raid in classic wow was having 8 tanks geared to handle horsemen. It's not mechanical, it's not a player skill issue, because the mechanical side of it is easy.
On September 01 2019 16:25 HolydaKing wrote: Wow, Molten Core got nerfed a lot compared to its initial state to be cleared that fast. That's super disappointing. I'm guessing only Ahn'Qiraj will be decently tough as that's the last instance in classic and the patch at the Classic servers are already in that state. Probably not either, as there have been a few patches after that as well.
In a sense it is nerfed because Classic is 1.12 which has talent changes + gear changes which give more power.
BUT, MC (or any old raid really) was never hard. There are no difficult mechanics at all, there is no enrage, no gear check worth speaking off. Every single Classic raid going forward is going to be cleared in a few hours at most of it opening up.
And calling AQ the end when Naxx was kinda shows how little you know.
Right, I forgot Naxx. But yes, I never played any big raid after MC in Classic (went to BG PvP) so I indeed don't know much about how it looked later. I guarantee you the later bosses in MC were not easy in the first patch MC was being tried. Or everyone sucked. From what I read it took the first guild 74 days to go from Majordomo to clear Ragnaros, and I'm pretty sure it's not only because people are just way better now (so much that many people aren't even max level) but because of patch changes as well. Oh and add-ons of course.
On September 01 2019 17:33 HolydaKing wrote: Right, I forgot Naxx. But yes, I never played anything after MC in Classic so I indeed don't know much about how it looked later. I guarantee you the later bosses in MC were not easy in the first patch MC was being tried. Or everyone sucked. From what I read it took the first guild 74 days to go from Majordomo to clear Ragnaros, and I'm pretty sure it's not because people are just way better now (so much that many people aren't even max level) but because of patch changes..
No, everyone sucked back then. We had no clue what we were doing. Yes people are WAY better now.
Besides that MC is not and never was a hard raid...
They basically assembled 40 hardcore players. Each probably has killed Ragnaros 100+ times during the last 14 years. Every mechanic of the fight is known and well understood (and there aren't that many in the first place). Theorycrafting is also on a so much higher level than it was back then.
Even in 2005/2006, when 20 out of the 40 players assembled in our raid weren't terrible, we blasted through it.
It is a little bit surprising to me that it was so quick, but after second thought it actually isn't.
BWL might be tougher because there is more one shot mechanics and maybe the gear isn't there yet. But with enough consumables it might be easily doable as well.
People knowing what they're doing is probably 95% of why the old content is cleared so easily now, even in laughable gear and below level 60. Patch changes and addons are the other 5%, tops.
Progressive private servers (where gear and talents are made to be like original vanilla and then progressively changed over time) also clear ragnaros crazy fast, because even on 1.0 it was an easy raid. People were just bad and didn't know what to do.
I don't think its even the split it just is straight up toxicity from anything in classic right now its awful lol. Streamer chats are "at war" with eachother being stupid and players are being awful to each other its quite crazy lol.
Gonna take a month for this all to die down and the people who genuinely wanted classic and want to play it will get their game they want and everyone else will either be back on retail or back to fornite xD
On that note also, last night playing with my friends i noticed people in trade asking such new questions it was insane. Genuine new players playing WoW in 2019 i never thought i would have seen that, its amazing to think that people are picking up this game for the first time.
I love how hard people are shitting on method for not getting world first and they weren't even trying to race lol
I think a lot of it is just memeing since the whole event is called "race to world first" and they brought up the first to 60, rag & onyxia stuff so many times. They weren't really in the competition as they died when half of method was still high 40's to starting the 50's.
Yeah, it's been funny watching the prices as i level. Some materials were super expensive if you got to them fast, then fell to below vendor price on AH overnight as the supply wave hit.
Thanks to player reports and feedback, we’ve identified a bug affecting how XP was calculated for parties of 6 or more players.
We are rolling out a hotfix right now, to all realms, that should correct this. Going forward, XP awarded should be significantly lower for parties of 6 or more players.
Again, thank you very much for your feedback.
Slightly annoying that they fix this after the wave of people using it got pretty much to 60 but before other people did, oh well. They were getting 2.8x the intended experience for 10-man groups.
My opinion on this is that it's fine having the pets have proper stats, although it's quite likely that it's an oversight rather than an intentional change. I can see why some people might not like it (as these pets used to just suck and be completely irrelevant, so why shouldn't they now?) but i'd keep the change personally because it's not really harming the spirit of the game.
On September 02 2019 05:26 Pandemona wrote: I don't think its even the split it just is straight up toxicity from anything in classic right now its awful lol. Streamer chats are "at war" with eachother being stupid and players are being awful to each other its quite crazy lol.
Gonna take a month for this all to die down and the people who genuinely wanted classic and want to play it will get their game they want and everyone else will either be back on retail or back to fornite xD
On that note also, last night playing with my friends i noticed people in trade asking such new questions it was insane. Genuine new players playing WoW in 2019 i never thought i would have seen that, its amazing to think that people are picking up this game for the first time.
Thats plain wrong?
The community is ridiculously nice. I didn't join any Guild yet but just two random examples, i could come up with MANY of These:
I group with a guy for 15 minutes to do some random quest because we were tired of Tagging each others mobs, no other interaction. He see's that i'm Alchemist --> Gives me the herbs he found in a chest, whiteout asking. 2 People tag a Questmob a second before i am there… They stop hitting it when its at 20%, invite me into their group, wait for me to actually dmg it and then ask if it's "ok" to kill it now.
But then again, i'm now lvl 25. Which is for sure a bit ahead of the curve but behind the tryhard crowd that took days off and there are no streamers/twitch idiots on my server.
The leveling, world, atmosphere, and overall experience is much better in classic. The actual content is infinitely worse, but this is not news in the slightest and obviously different people like different things.
Im still raiding on retail, but since I have 66 neck and don't really need to grind anything, that time I mostly spend on classic now.
Yeah, i have seen very little of people being mean to eachother aside from a bit of the typical streamer drama which is overwhelmingly faked for ad/sub revenue.
It's actually been really wild how often you're seeing the same players over and over and over again. There's a dude that i invited to tag mobs minutes after the server came up and we're still questing together whenever it's convenient, i ran into him like 7 or 8 times all across the world without even organizing it. There are literally dozens of players that i've seen 3, 4 times by chance whom i can name and have on friends now and everybody has been really social and nice
On September 02 2019 09:41 Popkiller wrote: I’ve got a friend who is playing for the first time. She takes her time in town, does a lot of fishing and cooking haha.
I’m personally looking forward to more people getting 60 and the price of crafting mats going up so I can start making gold.
Yeah, this is one thing that is a little bit bad about this part of launch. It's so hard to make money on mats & items! Only items I've made a little bit of money off is selling guns that I make with engineering.
On September 03 2019 01:16 kalipsox wrote: 1 Hunter, 1 Druid. Good thing i posted 6 Month ago that those classes are trash. Too bad that X amount of people tried to wrongfully argue against it
Being a trash class doesn't matter in Classic because nothing is actually difficult. Don't confuse something the 0.0001% does as being the only way to play the game. WoW has enough of that shit already.
For what it's worth, our queue on Incendius-US at prime time has dropped from ~10k pretty consistently day by day to about 2-3k on Friday and Saturday (based on a few friends and I randomly queueing at different times in the evening). There was a spike back up last night to 4k and change but that might be related to today (Monday) being a holiday in US. It does feel better little by little. But the absolute busiest servers still have a ways to go I'm sure.
On September 03 2019 01:54 Gorsameth wrote: It hasn't even been a week. Wait for people to get to bored on the road to 60 or get to 60 and discover what (little) there is to do.
I expect a big drop about a month in.
It will drop a month in because many people will have paid for just one month.True that there is little to do before BGs so hopefully they update fastish
On September 03 2019 12:29 Emnjay808 wrote: What are the main reasons people roll on full servers?
I decided to play on a “medium”server. When the subs start to dip I’m assuming blizzard will merge the servers to saturate the pop if need be.
Many of them are scared of their experience being messed up by a >90% population drop and blizzard not reacting in time, that's why a bunch of my friends wouldn't reroll from the 1'st/2'nd pvp servers to the 3'rd one (Gehenass) when i wanted to do that. They stuck to the highest 1-2 populated realms in the region so hard that i decided screw trying to compromise and went for one that wouldn't have those queues almost entirely alone.
Those dudes are still setting alarms for 5am to avoid the queues which are hitting 6-12 hours by noon so i'm glad that i drew a red line there and went on another server without em
Honestly kind of wish I decided to stray from my friends as well. Ended up going Alliance (I always prefer horde) on Herod. Trying to solo level in any contested area is pretty much impossible (stranglethorn and hillsbrad are SO BAD). Queues are still pretty bad in the morning/afternoon as well.
On September 03 2019 12:29 Emnjay808 wrote: What are the main reasons people roll on full servers?
I decided to play on a “medium”server. When the subs start to dip I’m assuming blizzard will merge the servers to saturate the pop if need be.
Blizzard doesn't have a good track record for merging empty servers and having a busy server is much more important in Classic because of lack of cross server play.
High population is good for wpvp and liveliness of world, even though major problems can arise with overcrowding (because of stuff like invisibility and too much crowd control and can't necessarily run from skull chars). The world is quite big, so there are almost always undercrowded places though. Sharding takes away by dividing by 3 if I got this right. So far my experience on a full realm is good, gotta see more to judge. I don't think I like sharding and the concept of it, but will see. What happens when a realm is less crowded, is there no sharding then? Hope so.
When you face problems in stranglethorn or hillsbrad, you could go to for example desolace or menethil. At times it doesn't feel great to be in desolace instead of stranglethorn, but actually even in desolace if you want some pvp usually some places have it like the kodo cemetry.
On September 03 2019 14:23 TheEmulator wrote: Honestly kind of wish I decided to stray from my friends as well. Ended up going Alliance (I always prefer horde) on Herod. Trying to solo level in any contested area is pretty much impossible (stranglethorn and hillsbrad are SO BAD). Queues are still pretty bad in the morning/afternoon as well.
So we had some people roll Stalag and Herod.
Some waited a few days and rolled on Sulfurus on Saturday - The other guys who were between 20-30 on their characters on those servers (and this was a significant investment) ended up rerolling to Sulfurus - Naturally the second time around they were almost twice their original pace.
I wasnt going to play before the weekend and doing my retail stuff anyway. It was a great decision barely any queues and the population is high enough that it will maintain itself when the population drops.
I gave it a very good go. Level 20 now and its been fine. I had to give it an honest try, but Ive decided I much prefer retail.
Problem is the people I play with (many didnt do vanilla or barely played it) are so excited for it and its so new for them that I dont have much choice if I want to play with the people I play with. So I will probably be playing that over Retail during "free time" which there is alot of since I (like many other playing alot more classic) have hit the raid breakpoints they need to for their characters.
I have to say though as expected the game is so slow and so mechanically unchallenging (is that a word?) that it feels a bit stale at times, were constantly doing dumb shit on purpose to spice it up.
I kinda treat it like playing a board gaming online and mostly use it as an excuse to hang out with guildies.
My first experience with WoW was a couple years ago, a few friends and I picked it up and played it for a couple weeks. I could easily see the appeal but my biggest complaint was that, as someone who likes exploring and finding stuff in games, there was no reason to do that since you could level so quickly. We were easily able to fly wherever we needed to go to and didn't really interact with anyone.
But man I'm having a blast with classic. I'm only level 19 so maybe I'll get bored of it or burned out, but I'm loving how freaking massive the world is. I'm a human and on a PvP server. I don't know how likely it is that I'm going to get ganked, people on my server were talking how it's happened to them but I couldn't tell if they were trolling or not. But roaming around Lakeshire knowing that something could go down is quite fun to me; I also entered Duskwood last night which was quite eerie given the area and how easily I'd probably die given I'm underleveled for that area lol. I have no idea how likely I am to get ganked there but I think the mystery of it and playing through this completely blind has added to the entertainment value.
I also like how you're basically forced to group with people to get stuff done at times given the difficulty. I don't know what kind of reputation this community has, but I've found a bunch of cool people in game that I've grouped with to get stuff done, it's even cooler knowing that since it's a PvP server you have an incentive to assist others knowing that you're on the same team. The difficulty is no joke, every time I die I see a bunch of other ghosts wandering around lol. I've wandered around areas and saved people from death multiple times, and others have done it for me multiple times as well - it's awesome.
I might be 15 years late but it's still a fun time
Tip if you want to make grinding more challenging, try attacking several monsters at a time. This is effective for most classes if you have any way to damage multiple monsters, or dot and control one while you damage another, etc, and if you have some way of recovering your hp/mana quick enough after the fight (so well eating and drinking would do it for non healers I guess). You can attack green monsters but even yellow monsters that way. It can boost your effectiveness and it is more challenging, gotta react to some rolls and use different abilities etc. I'm doing this more and more as I play more of this game. Ofc the other thing that is mechanicaly challenging is fighting other players while leveling!!
On September 04 2019 04:00 GoShox wrote: But roaming around Lakeshire knowing that something could go down is quite fun to me; I also entered Duskwood last night which was quite eerie given the area and how easily I'd probably die given I'm underleveled for that area lol. I have no idea how likely I am to get ganked there but I think the mystery of it and playing through this completely blind has added to the entertainment value.
Though Redridge and Duskwood are contested zones, there's very little for horde to do in either of them, so your chances of running across an enemy player is probably on the low side. That being said, since it's so early in classic release and people are really embracing all kinds of silliness and whatever they feel like, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few ambitious folk just ganking for shits n giggles in those lower level areas.
Used to play back in the day, made a brief comeback for MOP but i´m currently very excited for Classic, lvl10 at Sulfuras Priest UD.
A little off topic, i love the addon Carbonite (http://www.carboniteaddon.com/) but apparently the author is not planning to "update" to classic, anyone knows a set of addons and/or something that functions that way for classic?
This might have some you are looking for. Azeroth Auto Pilot is very good and helps leveling if you forgot a lot of wow classic or just want to level a bit quicker and more effeciently.
On September 03 2019 14:23 TheEmulator wrote: Honestly kind of wish I decided to stray from my friends as well. Ended up going Alliance (I always prefer horde) on Herod. Trying to solo level in any contested area is pretty much impossible (stranglethorn and hillsbrad are SO BAD). Queues are still pretty bad in the morning/afternoon as well.
So we had some people roll Stalag and Herod.
Some waited a few days and rolled on Sulfurus on Saturday - The other guys who were between 20-30 on their characters on those servers (and this was a significant investment) ended up rerolling to Sulfurus - Naturally the second time around they were almost twice their original pace.
I wasnt going to play before the weekend and doing my retail stuff anyway. It was a great decision barely any queues and the population is high enough that it will maintain itself when the population drops.
I gave it a very good go. Level 20 now and its been fine. I had to give it an honest try, but Ive decided I much prefer retail.
Problem is the people I play with (many didnt do vanilla or barely played it) are so excited for it and its so new for them that I dont have much choice if I want to play with the people I play with. So I will probably be playing that over Retail during "free time" which there is alot of since I (like many other playing alot more classic) have hit the raid breakpoints they need to for their characters.
I have to say though as expected the game is so slow and so mechanically unchallenging (is that a word?) that it feels a bit stale at times, were constantly doing dumb shit on purpose to spice it up.
I kinda treat it like playing a board gaming online and mostly use it as an excuse to hang out with guildies.
Yep, I gave it an honest try as well and I was actually somewhat excited at first. To be fair I am still enjoying classic since I never got to really enjoy the 1-60 zones when I leveled at the start of BFA, but at the end of the day M+ and mythic raiding is what interests me so retail really is the better place for me. I'll probably get to 60 and clear the raids with my friends before I quit at least.
Man lvling as an ele shammy is really starting to pay off. I love the slow progression where u soldier on then u finally hit that gear/talent power spike and it feels so satisfying.
Also, forgot how to make cast sequence macros. Off the top of my head it goes something like this:
#showtooltip /castsequence reset=3 windfury totem, strength of earth totem, mana spring totem
On September 04 2019 03:35 Unleashing wrote: Playing classic has just reconfirmed to me that BFA truly is the least fun iteration of WoW to me.
Having such a blast.
I'd consider BFA to have a lot of real improvements that really do matter to me but then it's ruined by some core issues like sharding, consistently awful world server performance, economy being irrelevant & controlled by boost mafia, rushed and half finished development/bugs which can take multiple years to temporarily fix, awful CS, heavy timegating (spending 1 hour at 8am and 1hr at 8pm is often worth way more than spending 2 hours at one time) and so on which just make it a pretty shit experience overall.
Modern blizzard would probably never be willing to take the steps required to fix these things, in many cases they're considered to be a feature that appeal to other players (just not to me) rather than a fault.
Kinda sad that the solution to half of a great game is to just delete all development for the last 13 years but it is what it is, i've been having a lot more fun than i expected on Classic.
I'm not really sure where to go from here, would love TBC and Wrath servers eventually for sure. Without new content the serious lifespan is only maybe a year or two. Classic+ sounds great but there are serious downsides to the oldschool runescape approach (years of somewhat flawed/biased development leaves players wanting an "old oldschool runescape" which no longer exists since it's been patched over)
We have the first confirmations of realms w/ free transfers. 9 realms on EU will have transfers off.
5 going to current servers 1:1 to even out populations between low and high pop realms
4 of the busiest pvp realms will pair off for transfers into two new pvp servers, bringing the english-pvp total to 17 (up from 2 at name reservation, LOL). Those new servers will have new character creations locked for a day so that characters transferring onto them will have first pick of names, although there'll still be conflicts since we're talking about merging partial player pools from two of the largest servers that WoW has ever seen
On September 04 2019 21:40 Cyro wrote: We have the first confirmations of realms w/ free transfers. 9 realms on EU will have transfers off.
5 going to current servers 1:1 to even out populations between low and high pop realms
4 of the busiest pvp realms will pair off for transfers into two new pvp servers, bringing the english-pvp total to 17 (up from 2 at name reservation, LOL). Those new servers will have new character creations locked for a day so that characters transferring onto them will have first pick of names, although there'll still be conflicts since we're talking about merging partial player pools from two of the largest servers that WoW has ever seen
On September 04 2019 21:40 Cyro wrote: We have the first confirmations of realms w/ free transfers. 9 realms on EU will have transfers off.
5 going to current servers 1:1 to even out populations between low and high pop realms
4 of the busiest pvp realms will pair off for transfers into two new pvp servers, bringing the english-pvp total to 17 (up from 2 at name reservation, LOL). Those new servers will have new character creations locked for a day so that characters transferring onto them will have first pick of names, although there'll still be conflicts since we're talking about merging partial player pools from two of the largest servers that WoW has ever seen
so stupid. I am not transferring to a brand new server. I'll take a 5 hour queue over a dead server any day of the week.
You're free to take those queues as much as you want, any kind of transfer is obviously not aimed at the people who wanna play on the most full server possible
On September 04 2019 21:40 Cyro wrote: We have the first confirmations of realms w/ free transfers. 9 realms on EU will have transfers off.
5 going to current servers 1:1 to even out populations between low and high pop realms
4 of the busiest pvp realms will pair off for transfers into two new pvp servers, bringing the english-pvp total to 17 (up from 2 at name reservation, LOL). Those new servers will have new character creations locked for a day so that characters transferring onto them will have first pick of names, although there'll still be conflicts since we're talking about merging partial player pools from two of the largest servers that WoW has ever seen
so stupid. I am not transferring to a brand new server. I'll take a 5 hour queue over a dead server any day of the week.
You're free to take those queues as much as you want, any kind of transfer is obviously not aimed at the people who wanna play on the most full server possible
Well I think there is more than "most full" and "new". In classic in particular, a thicc server is helpful. If you wanna run dungeons, you need a healthy population. I've been on low pop servers and you basically just can't do certain dungeons. I'd be happy to play on a "high" pop server, but low pop would be less than ideal. But with any luck, lots of people move off of whitemane and the queue ends up manageable.
Sure there is a middle ground, it's just become somewhat of an obsession for many to stick to the original 2 servers when there are 17 of them now.
15 of those servers were not there when people originally chose servers, yet most of them have experienced queues and some of the most populated realms of all time are among them.
On September 05 2019 04:10 Unleashing wrote: Low population right now is still many times more populated than the most populated realms during vanilla according to blizzard
On September 05 2019 04:10 Unleashing wrote: Low population right now is still many times more populated than the most populated realms during vanilla according to blizzard
Many TIMES? Source?
Blizz stated that low pop realms in classic are as many people as a full server from vanilla, if not slightly more. Low pop is not many times more than the full vanilla servers, but the full/high pop classic servers are.
On September 05 2019 05:56 ProMeTheus112 wrote: not if you consider the effect of layers/shards i dont think (or do they not effect low pop realms?)
Layers being too empty isn't a problem as they're trivial to merge. The main issue with layer pop is having people be spread out since it's server wide (you might have 200 people in the level 1-5 zone and 2 in the capital city for example, whereas BFA sharding will make it so that you see 40 in both)
Every realm right now has Layers AFAIK, my realm is one of the "lower pop" ones and we still have a dozen layers and have hit queues a few times.
Queues on the Ashbringer realm i play on since launch was getting smaller as week went on, but since sunday queues are back to an hour long at peak this week so far
I was in Shazzrah, leveled until 20 on the first 3 days when i actually had time to play.
When I had to reduce my "availability" for something around 1 hour per day at 21:30, the 400 minutes queues were not manageable. Was either rerolling or not playing at all.
So I rerolled in Stonespine and the maximum Queue I experienced was 10 minutes. I'm still lvl 13 though
On September 05 2019 05:56 ProMeTheus112 wrote: not if you consider the effect of layers/shards i dont think (or do they not effect low pop realms?)
Layers being too empty isn't a problem as they're trivial to merge. The main issue with layer pop is having people be spread out since it's server wide (you might have 200 people in the level 1-5 zone and 2 in the capital city for example, whereas BFA sharding will make it so that you see 40 in both)
Every realm right now has Layers AFAIK, my realm is one of the "lower pop" ones and we still have a dozen layers and have hit queues a few times.
a dozen layers..? :[ doesn't it mean that, if for example you see somebody in a zone, and you go to town, next time you go to town the chance of seeing that character again is divided by a lot. You don't really know who is where etc, kinda breaks open world cohesion uh. Has its perks like, managing population so that a realm doesn't get undercrowded I guess cause it has much more than it needs to begin with, but is it worth it? Also regulates overcrowding. Has its pros and cons eh..
On September 05 2019 05:56 ProMeTheus112 wrote: not if you consider the effect of layers/shards i dont think (or do they not effect low pop realms?)
Layers being too empty isn't a problem as they're trivial to merge. The main issue with layer pop is having people be spread out since it's server wide (you might have 200 people in the level 1-5 zone and 2 in the capital city for example, whereas BFA sharding will make it so that you see 40 in both)
Every realm right now has Layers AFAIK, my realm is one of the "lower pop" ones and we still have a dozen layers and have hit queues a few times.
a dozen layers..? :[ doesn't it mean that, if for example you see somebody in a zone, and you go to town, next time you go to town the chance of seeing that character again is divided by a lot. You don't really know who is where etc, kinda breaks open world cohesion uh. Has its perks like, managing population so that a realm doesn't get undercrowded I guess cause it has much more than it needs to begin with, but is it worth it? Also regulates overcrowding. Has its pros and cons eh..
Not exactly, because you spend 98% of your time within a single layer with all of your guildies and most of your friends. If you're in layer #3 and you meet somebody else there, almost certainly you'll both be in #3 later and tomorrow as well; maybe one of you will be out of it for an hour while grouped for an instance, but not for long as you'll get pulled back there as soon as you're not actively trying to swap off of it.
Many times per day (probably 30-50x total so far) i randomly run into somebody that i know by name and three times in the last couple days i've invited multiple people that i know only for them to also know each other from questing. Many times i've re-met somebody over and over again on different days and different zones only to go on and become friends and guildies. It's actually happening more than i expected even without layering, more than i've ever seen in an MMO probably because a lot of people are playing a lot of consistent hours given that it's a fresh launch.
The server performance (consistent low latency and response time, even under queues and 100+ people in the same zone) is also the best i've ever seen for WoW, it makes legion and BFA look like a joke.
All in all i'm shockingly pleased w/ the layering system. I didn't think that it could do its job so well after the absolute nightmare shown by sharding for the last 5 years and it makes me wonder why the heck it's not on Live already if they were capable of this the whole time.
TL;DR i thought i didn't really, but i actually did. Tons of fun
edit: Also, a dozen was just a wild guess. It's hard to say exactly how many there are other than probably a handful.
It was confirmed faked on a private server already, that part and screenshot is 100% BS
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This stuff does concern me a little:
Those claims need proof, but I do know that a certain POE streamer has been farming satyrs non-stop, hopping layers. That will make him extremely rich. Some people here argued that layering wouldn't affect economy. It definitely does.
From around day 4 we saw pretty extensive abuse of layering by keeping a basic list of people who belong to different layers and cycling invites between them to basically instantly respawn packs of mobs.
Abuse of this is at a maximum at the moment as in the layering system, people are split up per-layer and not per-zone by design; this results in low-mid level zones being heavily populated and level 60 zones being empty at the moment, so people can farm without a second of downtime waiting for spawns.
The main reason i'm not considering it a gamebreaking issue atm is that it's not even 0.1% of people really abusing it, but i think it should be reined in sooner rather than later with a bit more complexity to the system like limiting layer transfers per hour in the open world. It shouldn't be too difficult to stop people hopping every 3 minutes forever while legit players might play for 5 hours without ever swapping layers.
I also feel that its not a major issue atm, as if Blizzard sees it to be abusing their system, I am sure they will take action against those people once we hit the point where layering is removed.
There is no major incentive for them to fix it now since layers aren't going away immediately, as people will find other ways around it to abuse the system.
These people that are whining layers are breaking the game because of these few abusers are very vocal, but I would rather be able to log in and be able to quest and level at a reasonable pace than run into hundreds of people on the same ques ton my server every time I log in.
We recently developed a hotfix that restricts frequent layer-hopping, without impacting those who simply wish to play with their friends. Following realm restarts earlier today, this hotfix is now live in all realms in the Americas and Oceania region.
Now, each time a player moves to a new layer, there will be an increasing amount of time before that player can move to another layer. If a player moves between layers multiple times over a short timeframe, the cooldown can increase to a duration of several minutes (or longer) before they can change layers again. The cooldown will then decrease over time for players who don’t change layers.
This hotfix will become active in other regions following their next realm restarts.
Hows things going for everyone? I slowed way down around 40 personally, so i'm still in the lower 50's. A few of our guild are getting 60 now and preraid BIS items are starting to show up at 500g each on AH
I've got a mage around 28 and a rogue around 20, camping on purpose waiting for a few friends so we can run some stuff as a group. Thankfully PoE league started so I've got something to do in the mean time.
I'm not really planning on getting all the way to 60 at this rate, let alone rushing there. But there are a handful of zones I'm looking forward to experiencing again, that's sort of my biggest motivator right now.
Lvl 18 rogue. I like the game but can't really play after work due to queues. At weekends I play quite a bit though but still taking it slow and enjoying the experience again.
46 now. Only leveling when my group of friends are on, i wouldnt touch this game with a 10 foot pole alone, but not interested in any other games on the market currently
Im lvl26 druid NE having good time doing lot of wpvp 173kills 58 deaths (of which 48 to players) I level pretty slow cause I spend time hunting for players lul quite a bit of /played probably (~3 days^^), made quite a bit of gold somewhere over 18gold at lvl26 despite having bought a bunch of blue items so my char is strong and ready to continue hunting lol good fun tbh
not really playing alts im interested in playing one or two or three but not sure i'll spend the time or on which, im focusing on my main so far
On September 11 2019 02:38 Warri wrote: 46 now. Only leveling when my group of friends are on, i wouldnt touch this game with a 10 foot pole alone, but not interested in any other games on the market currently
28- And yeah im in a similar boat I got 20 within a weekend and then let it sit for some friends to catchup. And I only play with them on. There is like 0 motivation to play unless its a thing to do with people. Most of my guild dabbled and went back to retail or just doing other things if their retail and raid prep is caught up.
7-8 are still going strong in the 40's and then the 5-6 also rans like me who only get on when the other also rans get on.
No rush, you need 40 people to raid (35+ anyway) so no real point in rushing to 60 before everyone else unless you have 39 friends/guildies doing the same
On September 11 2019 01:23 RvB wrote: Lvl 18 rogue. I like the game but can't really play after work due to queues. At weekends I play quite a bit though but still taking it slow and enjoying the experience again.
Shouldn't it be possible to run a script to log you in 1h before you get home and then keep the character active until you turn it off?
Though if you don't want to be accused of botting then maybe playing via a laptop and using mobile internet until you get home to login would work.
On September 11 2019 01:23 RvB wrote: Lvl 18 rogue. I like the game but can't really play after work due to queues. At weekends I play quite a bit though but still taking it slow and enjoying the experience again.
Shouldn't it be possible to run a script to log you in 1h before you get home and then keep the character active until you turn it off?
Though if you don't want to be accused of botting then maybe playing via a laptop and using mobile internet until you get home to login would work.
(I would not bother dodging queues myself.)
The safest (and probably easiest?) way is to just remote into your desktop. Some friends of mine have just been using teamviewer (think you might be able to do it from your phone tbh).
The other PVE realms are still experiencing short queues at peak times but Nethergarde is queue-free for now. There's a big range of PvP servers ranging from extremely overfull to underpopulated to find a middle ground on
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The game's a bit more buggy than i thought, some examples of stuff that affects combat flow every day:
The multi-shot (substantial ST dps gain too) mechanics that we have are actually completely wrong (both to benefit and detriment) and we'll have to relearn what it does and doesn't hit when they remake it to work more like it used to.
The pet AI is wonky and they're not able to attack targets which are moving near regular run speed like they could in both vanilla and modern WoW.
Aimed Shot often gets stuck and the 3 second cast extends itself to be 4-6 seconds long, sometimes going on to cancel itself without doing damage.
Feign Death (outside of resists) regularly doesn't work or sticks you in combat despite the FD which makes regular combos like walking into melee to raptor strike / FD / explosive trap not worth (traps can't be cast in combat). Big problem for hunter pvp (although i don't partake) as they rely on combos like this to create distance with melee.
Auto attack animations are missing in some common circumstances, so we have to rely on damage numbers popping up or addons to see if a shot fired or not.
Will play better when these get fixed, i'l probably already be 60 by then
I often have my first spell be "evaded" when it would hit at about the same time as my pets first attack, the mob is not bugged out and all later spells hit whiteout issues. It's annoying.
Im playing hunter myself, the pet bug is visibly noticeable, however it still attacks so i dont think its actually a dps loss. Havent noticed anything weird with multishot, but vanilla is too long so i dont really remember how it was. FD is really really annoyingly buggy though.
On September 13 2019 05:10 Warri wrote: Im playing hunter myself, the pet bug is visibly noticeable, however it still attacks so i dont think its actually a dps loss. Havent noticed anything weird with multishot, but vanilla is too long so i dont really remember how it was. FD is really really annoyingly buggy though.
Multi-shot is not supposed to hit anything more than 10 yards away from the primary, right now i think it can hit things up to weapons range (35-41 yrds) away. Have to be really careful when there is anything nearby because it'll pull if it doesn't have 3 stacked up combat targets to hit.
We use it because even the rank 1 multishot (low mana cost) fires a weapon damage autoattack independantly of the shoot timer so it's always a damage gain
Yeah it's pretty jarring playing without nameplates, or having them only pop up if you're stood in highly suboptimal positions; as a hunter i found myself running close to the deadzone just to get a better picture of what was going on.
Configurable distance is a solid QOL fix that doesn't negatively impact the "classic experience" IMO.
my sub is about to elapse and i haven't touched the game in a week or so and probably won't be resubbing. i just have better things to do with my time than grind classic if only i was in high school/university again.
Looks like Blizzard is actively changing stuff that was part of vanilla, but not appropriate in their view. E.g. ritual of doom summons a neutral doomguard instead of an aggressive one and as of today mind control was stealth hotfixed to no longer work on boats.
Hoping this was just an accident but given other changes (removing nameplate command in another stealth hotfix at the same time) i'm skeptical. Would be easier if they'd talk about what is and isn't an intentional change.
On September 14 2019 07:55 Emnjay808 wrote: I share the same sentiment. I can’t justify resubbing for 15/month when I only play 1-2 hours every other night.
it's way too expansive imo, i'll keep playing for a bit at least to 60 and more at 60 (most likely full wpvp^^) with my main i'm pretty sure cause i love vanilla wow but yeah its overpriced tbh i think it was always overpriced but its even more now
On September 14 2019 06:58 GTR wrote: my sub is about to elapse and i haven't touched the game in a week or so and probably won't be resubbing. i just have better things to do with my time than grind classic if only i was in high school/university again.
Go ahead and quit if you want, I already broke up with my girlfriend and told my boss I won't be getting that promotion this year. There are more important things to do in the world + Show Spoiler +
Not 100% accurate, but that should be a lower barrier, so at least 4million characters. Id say thats probably at least 3 million actual players. Thats quite a lot, though i really want to see that number in a month or two.
Cutting off everyone below level 20, there's still like 4 mill chars registered lol
Big level of inaccuracy still, just from looking at the data i can see instances like nethergarde having 30% more chars registered than pyrewood when in reality pyrewood has hit queues a lot more often than nethergarde recently, so that character number can't be too close to representing activity.
Yeah, it's pve, I am on it, and it's pretty full. Did not start at the beginning but the it is hard to level 1-20... Love it, we have a good group of players 15-10 years ago and I thought it ends within a week. Aiming for Deathmines next Wednesday when everyone has the quests finished ^^ very slow and we enjoy it.
Up to level 19, forgot how boring/slow levelling can be. Mostly just gonna twink a couple of characters at 39&49 and do some BGs so no rush, still at least four months or so to get that done. 60 content does not interest me, don't have time for carrot/stick or raids.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/d4p912/massive_critical_layering_exploit/ This one seems a bit more serious this time. All in all, layering is just fucked imo, it's about time to turn it off already. Ive seen this one on stream and it works. Dont know if those guys farmed literally 100k gold, but since its working and just now getting to the public i cant imagine someone not having abused it to shit.
Been talking about this for last hr, looks like we're in need of a hotfix and a round of bans/reverts!
They can't just turn it off without daily 12+ hour queues on high pop servers and probably 4 hour queues on lower pop.
EDIT:
An r/classicwow mod removed the post, tl;dr is that you can reset dungeons without leaving them thus respawning all of the bosses in front of you to kill them again. Obviously an unintentional side effect of layering.
On September 15 2019 23:23 Unleashing wrote: Hitting 60 in 20k exp and managed to get nearly enough gold for epic mount before dinging 60 God bless being a warlock and getting BoE drops
Gz, i'm not far behind you but lacking some gold. Still got a good bit more than i expected although no BoE drops
edit2: I actually did get a dungeon item yesterday which apparantly sold for 50g
This right click reporting is so stupid. You get DC if you get mass reported.
So far most annoying everyday everymoment bugs have been; Not being able to dismount with the only dismount tool in hunter arsenal, Guards being immune to FD, FD Swing timer reset, Multi-shot is like 15yd chain sometimes, https://gyazo.com/b9d1e0e0085f03b1a9489cfd735d60da
I'm also bummed about bosses not doing abilities in classic like they did in vanilla and infernal not working (prob just another QoL change.)And that we won't get original vanilla damage values and abilities AQ/ZG etc(not talking about bugged cthun). I also hear constantly rumors about MC not working anymore in boats.
If this was pserver it would be worst pserver there ever was. There's even meta of "yeah don't take that talent, it doesn't work" (leader of the pack).
I've had worse multi shots than that lol, even in your vid that's several times the "10 yard" radius - looks closer to 30!
I'm also bummed about bosses not doing abilities in classic like they did in vanilla
huh?
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We’ve recently become aware of a bug that could be exploited to allow instanced encounters to be completed repeatedly. We have developed a fix for the issue, and we are in the process of deploying it worldwide.
Realm restarts are scheduled for 3:00 a.m. PDT (6:00 a.m. EDT) in order to apply this fix.
As soon as possible, we will identify those who knowingly abused this bug in exploitative manner. We will then take appropriate punitive measures.
Does this bug not work the same way it did for when people were leveling, where they logged out after clearing big trash pull in ZF to respawn the mobs and do it again? That way you can spam dungeons without getting the cooldown cuz u reset the instance and went back in etc etc? Will that now not be able to happen?
I got bit burnt out on WoW this weekend and didn't play much, got a bit bored with quests being absolutely crazy when you are doing them with a friend. Collect 10 x of something in two people quest with like a 33% drop chance just has you grinding for ages. Add in we were doing this in Hillsbrad and random Alliance swarming you made me rage quit a bit xD
On September 16 2019 17:40 Pandemona wrote: Does this bug not work the same way it did for when people were leveling, where they logged out after clearing big trash pull in ZF to respawn the mobs and do it again? That way you can spam dungeons without getting the cooldown cuz u reset the instance and went back in etc etc? Will that now not be able to happen?
Unless youre missing a step, this is not the same. The exploit involves getting invited by someone else to get on their layer while being anywhere in the dungeon. You dont get layered by relogging, you will always be on the same layer by your own (apparently).
On September 16 2019 13:41 Cyro wrote: I've had worse multi shots than that lol, even in your vid that's several times the "10 yard" radius - looks closer to 30!
I'm also bummed about bosses not doing abilities in classic like they did in vanilla
huh?
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some of the published changes I looked in few mins just form ~3 patches:
Maraudon Noxxious Scions will no longer spawn when you cleanse Celebrian Vines.
Zul'Farrak The respawn of the 2 Troll/1 Basilisk patrollers should now be 2 hours. Reduced the damage dealt by the Sul'lithuz Abomination and Sul'lithuz Sandcrawler. Zul'Farrak Dead Heroes are no longer elites. Theka the Martyr will now only remain immune to physical damage for 30 seconds before reverting to normal. Antu'sul's Sul'lithuz Broodlings now only hatch 4 at a time and are significantly weaker. Witch Doctor Zum'rah will no longer call as many Zul'Farrak Zombies to his aid when aggroed. Weegli Blastfuse now has slightly more hit points. Antu'sul's Warden no longer attempts to knock adventurers into Antu'sul's lair. Sandfury Cretins who engage the party during the pyramid event are no longer able to cast shadow bolt.
Uldaman Reduced the number of Shadowforge Ambushers that attack after looting the quest chest. Shadowforge Ambushers are no longer elite. The respawn of the Stone Stewards has been changed to 2 hours (from 30 minutes).
LBRS Removed the stacking acid from the Flesh Tentacles in the C'thun encounter. Digestive Acid now increases its effect over time during the C'thun encounter. Fixed a bug that could allow for the Digestive Acid debuff to be removed. Lowered the amount of knockback dealt by Giant Tentacles. Tentacles should no longer spawn on players who have just been knocked back by a previous tentacle.
AQ The hitpoints of every creature in the General Rajaxx encounter has been lowered. Damage of General Rajaxx has been lowered. It should no longer be possible for Emperor Vek'lor and Vek'nilash to Unbalancing Strike or Arcane Burst immediately after a teleport. Certain monsters have had their hitpoints reduced.
Oh I assume you mean some content being the way it "ended up" in 1.12 or 1.13 or whatever, rather than when it was originally launched. Not WoW Classic having missing/incorrect implementation.
community has proven to be pretty awful. you'd have no idea you're playing a coop game. people camp npc's for rare recipes just to sell them on AH marked up +60 gold. they park their characters directly on top of npc's just to make it harder to click on the npc (??). people are selfish when doing quests, picking up quest items while you are killing the mobs that were guarding it. on pvp servers, same faction doesn't help you when you get attacked by opposite faction
it's all so depressing and discouraging. we're all supposed to be on the same team, especially pvp server your faction is all your teammates, but the average player will take any opportunity to get themselves a greater reward at the cost of someone else getting a lesser reward.
would be really funny to me if some of these dicks who monopolize things on the AH and charge more than they're worth just to enrich themselves for shit they dont really need, or just to have a lot of gold in their account, are poor in real life and speak out against wealthy people and corporations doing the same thing in real life to them. and now they're playing a fucking video game that's supposed to be cooperative. the stakes are infinitely low / meaningless, and yet they can't resist being greedy themselves
anyway, mmorpg's will never work properly because human nature doesnt support it. idk why people thought classic wow would somehow be an exception full of people who care about community. it is not even close. just a depressing game to play. idk how people play it and dont get depressed by how shitty everyone treats each other. that's all i can do is pretend the other people arent real people and play with friends who are actually cooperative
My experience has been the exact opposite, I’ve witnessed and benefited from a lot of unusual courtesies as I’ve leveled. Seems like some big variance across servers.
To add to NonY's point, myself personally, i would love for the LFG dungeon tool to be added, i mean i am spamming /2 and /4 channels for a healer for my friends for up to 20-30 minutes at a time before finding a group. The summon stones....i can see them, but cannot use them so unless you have a Warlock friend you have to run to every dungeon which again i don't mind to an extent but as a horde player running to Deadmines now on a PvP realm is just not a good idea.
Having the ability to put yourself in a queue for a dungeon and get teleported into it for me isn't ruining the game or "destroying" the community if you are only queuing into people on your same realm like it released as back in LK expansion right? That way you can make the friends there and continue on as normal.
That is my only other point to add to NonY's little rant which i agree with and have seen first hand on EU side as well. I even whispered one guy when i died in Hillsbrad and said yo dude ress at same time as me and we will kill this mage as there is 3 of us. He never replied, i ressed with my mate we both tried kill the mage while he ressed and ran away xD
On September 17 2019 00:43 farvacola wrote: My experience has been the exact opposite, I’ve witnessed and benefited from a lot of unusual courtesies as I’ve leveled. Seems like some big variance across servers.
Same. I've come across so many helpful and nice people. On both sides actually, I came across a horde priest quite some levels above me who just finished an elite mob. They waited around for 10 minutes to help me kill the mob, waiting to let me tag it.
It has been a really great experience and I've grouped with so many people just to meet them a few days later and group with them again. And anytime I've been chain-ganked I've asked for help in chat and gotten so many people rallying to help me out. Or people coming to help do quests even if they don't need them themselves.
So yeah, I have experienced pretty much the opposite.
Also they're not summoning stones, as it says on them, they're meeting stones. It's a place for groups to meet before heading into the dungeon. And I'd definitely be saddened to see LFG added, and I'm glad the devs aren't interested in even entertaining such an idea.
My experience flipped strongly negative when i hit around 55 as well. My "raiding" guild with a bunch of promise decided to push back guild raids into the next month so that half a dozen of the officers/gm could raid with their friends in another guild a reset or two sooner which then led to a mass exodus from the raid core and that kind of behavior continued.
I joined a highly active guild afterwards and over these last few days i've been trying to get ony attune to join them. I and some other guildies (i was friends with a few before joining) posted an advertisement to run UBRS a bunch of times yesterday and then today very regularly for 18 hours straight in guild chat (and four hours in LFG channel) - 0 tanks and 0 healers from guild. Zero. The run didn't happen after all of that for lack of people.
This is a guild that has 100 people online right now. They're running Onyxia - and killing her - with 30 people because the rest of the guild are not attuned, yet there are more than 10 people in guild available to raid who are sitting on the last step of attunement, some of them for quite a while.
I would say go respec/reroll to tank/healer but every tank and healer slot in the raid team is filled already so it would be raid suicide to do so. I don't expect anyone else (nor myself) to lock themselves into an offrole that has no chance of seeing a raid.
I don't see any good option here aside from find new people to play with that aren't shit(?) - maybe the pool of players won't be like this in another 2-8 weeks when people are starting to raid without playing all day every day. The current dudes seem to have burned through their launch hype and jumped right into the "got mine, screw everyone else" playstyle!
mmmh I get a lot of cooperation going on in wpvp but ofc it depends. It probably depends on server too. I don't necessarily expect somebody on my "team" or faction to act in my favor because I know they just don't have to (you might be playing a evil character if you want..). In many ways the way I play my own character is very much a war soldier mostly on the offense against the horde, although I almost never attack grey characters (sometimes I just throw some spell at them and leave). Some people play more defensively or passively even on pvp server, and would avoid engaging a hordie if they can because they will survive longer in the area for that (many hordies won't attack them on sight).
I'm 39 and still having fun and the "hardcore omfg need to raid/need bis gear right naaaooo" are 10-20 levels higher ..
I just play by myself, i know a few people that also play but i mainly go at it alone. My friendlist is growing "naturally" and the exploits that some people have exploited don't matter to me because i take it slowish and i'm on one of the newer servers so there aren't as many hardcore people that took holydays here.
But well.. in 2 days its off to Japan for a 3 week holyday, no more WoW. After that i'm gonna search some guild that wants to raid ~2 days a week and we'll see how long i'm motivated.
Experience on a PvP server has mostly been great, as a WL before Deathcoil i'm basically just fresh meat for any rogue/warrior but besides 2-3 man gank squads (warrior + healer + who cares) that kill everything on sight it's pretty peacefull as long as you don't fight for a questmob... Which leads to madness, which is glorious in itself . The lvl ~30 warriors with whirlwind axes are the only thing that really pisses me off so far, that thing is so broken if you can get it that early ^^.
sorry for the rant. glad to hear other people are having better experiences. im on stalagg, not one of the original servers but one of the early ones. i think a lot of people who primarily want to "get ahead" and empower their own characters as much as possible as fast as possible are on my server
if i could have leveled faster it would've been smoother. but im kind of in the wave of people who dont quite have that much time to dump into the game but are still leveling pretty fast (im 53 atm). so they probably feel like they gotta do everything they can to help themselves in order to keep up with the people who have more time. idk
On September 17 2019 09:55 NonY wrote: sorry for the rant. glad to hear other people are having better experiences. im on stalagg, not one of the original servers but one of the early ones. i think a lot of people who primarily want to "get ahead" and empower their own characters as much as possible as fast as possible are on my server
if i could have leveled faster it would've been smoother. but im kind of in the wave of people who dont quite have that much time to dump into the game but are still leveling pretty fast (im 53 atm). so they probably feel like they gotta do everything they can to help themselves in order to keep up with the people who have more time. idk
That might be it. I feel like people in that range are people who want to be try hards but cant be for 1 reason or another and that makes that an uncomfortable space to be in.
Most of my experience has been warm and fuzzies.. this is literally just now like 2 mins ago.
We had rolled on Stallag but moved to Sulfurus (I hadnt even started before that decision was made any alot of people jsut rerolled after getting frustrated with ques) and I think it was an excellent decision. Its the third / fourth most populated server. Wont die, but there arent anyassholes here either. And I personally have never gotten a que for more than a few minutes but peo0le have.
So I do think the server matters quite a bit. That having been said I have people on disc again right now ranting about corpse camping, npc camping, idiots standing over nps with gigantic pots (that was quick) trying to bait people into clicking on them.. but like.. thats the game.
Standing over NPCs was a thing you could do until Mop? I think, me and a couple of people(shitty looking back) did it when the molten front opened in cata a bit early so we could get the 30day mount and blacksmith plans a day or two ahead of everyone. frustrating but its a part of classic i guess.
I experience shitty and pleasant behavior equally (dare I say). It’s all about what you take from it.
I’m herb and when I’m killing a mob guarding it almost someone else always runs up and casually harvests it and splits.
When I’m about to die by a mob. Someone within vicinity will break their “eco grind” cycle to help me.
Im hearing lots of stories about lvl 60 peeps having nothing to do and now blaming how everything should’ve been pre-patch to help add more difficulty to the BiS grinding. Sucks that they reached that point so quickly (but what else would u expect if u “speedrun” ur toon). Maybe blizzard should consider releasing BGs sooner though I think that would make the more casual guys less incentivized to grind PvP rank cause they’re “late” to 60.
I feel like I digressed from my original thoughts. lol
Play a priest on Thunderfury with not a lot of time played (only 30) and people have been very nice. Of course I may be part of it because I throw heals to others that took a tough pull or even rez corpses that I see. Throw PW:F on everybody I see and almost everyone who has a buff spell hits me back up in return. The other day I threw one on a warlock, and she ran up and gave me a hearthstone. Bonkers.
Opposing faction niceness varies but typically errs on the side of ignoring/keeping distance.
On September 17 2019 22:22 Ryzel wrote: Play a priest on Thunderfury with not a lot of time played (only 30) and people have been very nice. Of course I may be part of it because I throw heals to others that took a tough pull or even rez corpses that I see. Throw PW:F on everybody I see and almost everyone who has a buff spell hits me back up in return. The other day I threw one on a warlock, and she ran up and gave me a hearthstone. Bonkers.
Opposing faction niceness varies but typically errs on the side of ignoring/keeping distance.
Most people have chars around the high 20's to low 40's right now and are pretty nice in my experience. It's the guys on epic mounts that you need to watch out for as an exaggerated percentage of them got up there by throwing people under the bus so that they could climb on top more easily.
Having seen that enormous fustercluck first hand i'm probably gonna spec back to BM, do misc. max level stuff and level new classes with some friends for a while for a larger fraction of the community to catch up. I'm still having a lot of fun with the game but not with those people. There'll be plenty of time to do MC and Onyxia next month! I actually cracked over some unexpected stress in the last few days and sitting back to look at it i feel a lot better about the game and life in general now.
I actually got a cool name for an alt first try on my full server as well, "Nomnoms"! Always a shock these days to hit enter and have it just work without sitting at the name screen obsessing over potential options for an hour (:
There's a major bug right now which mostly applies for lvl 60's. The 32-buff cap is wrongly implemented as a 32 aura cap, highly problematic because lots of stats on gear like +hit, +crit and many talents wrongly count as auras inside of that cap.
All of those bonuses fill most of the cap without you doing anything.
Adding more by equipping certain pieces of gear / enchanting / getting a buff like arcane intellect is literally making gear with those stats stop working (and thus people with hit cap are missing bosses etcetc) because people reach more than those 32 auras and the "gear auras" no longer fit within the cap, so the stats no longer apply to you.
I've taken quite well to playing hunter&mage but not warrior so far, don't know why it's going so badly. I've been duo playing with a priest but my threat output w/ 1h+shield is atrocious (can hold 1 target with equal level dps) and overall damage output is not good.
Big problems even with healer aggro - if i focus on one mob to stack a few sunders etc, any additional mobs in combat will go wreck the healer. If i split threat to hold anything, even my heal can pull any of them off of me by wanding one. I'm rage starved to begin with, so any aggro loss is followed by severe rage starvation and i can never really get the mobs back (taunt pulls it for a few seconds, it hits me once and then swaps back to whomever is generating threat because i don't have the rage to hit it with anything)
The only real successes i've had is fighting 2 mobs at a time to be able to juggle them and hold both, but they still take a lot longer to die than i think they should to be efficient.
Should i be playing more DPS-y with a 2h weapon right now, both in open world and dungeon tanking? This one is still low at the moment (level 18). I'm sure there's some stuff that can be done to make war+priest wreck faces that i'm not doing right now!
The real vanilla experience is having thottbot in ur background and having to alt tab because no one used dual monitors then. Bet none of u fuckers are doing it the authentic way and prolly have some camgirl or twitch stream in ur other monitor.
Back in my days I pulled out a newspaper cause having a cellphone then was rare, too. Bet a lot of u fuckers touch ur phone half as much of the time while ur playing WoW, huh.
Just an anecdotal, satirical rant *smiley face
I’m level 31 in STV and love the shit out of that zone. Though I see I’m soon to be in desolace and remember that being a horrible zone to grind out in vanilla.
State of this game is absolutely hilarious. People were laughing at how pservers weren't blizzlike or 10k ppl were unauthentic etc while classic is least blizzlike shit I've played so far and has most game breaking bugs I've heard of plus it's moneyrun operation so there's little chance to see fixes to certain bugs that don't affect majority of people.
On September 18 2019 04:29 Cyro wrote: There's a major bug right now which mostly applies for lvl 60's. The 32-buff cap is wrongly implemented as a 32 aura cap, highly problematic because lots of stats on gear like +hit, +crit and many talents wrongly count as auras inside of that cap.
All of those bonuses fill most of the cap without you doing anything.
Adding more by equipping certain pieces of gear / enchanting / getting a buff like arcane intellect is literally making gear with those stats stop working (and thus people with hit cap are missing bosses etcetc) because people reach more than those 32 auras and the "gear auras" no longer fit within the cap, so the stats no longer apply to you.
I've taken quite well to playing hunter&mage but not warrior so far, don't know why it's going so badly. I've been duo playing with a priest but my threat output w/ 1h+shield is atrocious (can hold 1 target with equal level dps) and overall damage output is not good.
Big problems even with healer aggro - if i focus on one mob to stack a few sunders etc, any additional mobs in combat will go wreck the healer. If i split threat to hold anything, even my heal can pull any of them off of me by wanding one. I'm rage starved to begin with, so any aggro loss is followed by severe rage starvation and i can never really get the mobs back (taunt pulls it for a few seconds, it hits me once and then swaps back to whomever is generating threat because i don't have the rage to hit it with anything)
The only real successes i've had is fighting 2 mobs at a time to be able to juggle them and hold both, but they still take a lot longer to die than i think they should to be efficient.
Should i be playing more DPS-y with a 2h weapon right now, both in open world and dungeon tanking? This one is still low at the moment (level 18). I'm sure there's some stuff that can be done to make war+priest wreck faces that i'm not doing right now!
Be mindful that you probably have a complete garbage weapon compared to what a priest can do at super low levels. When leveling a priest I can do significantly more damage than a tank just by swp + wanding (with wand spec talent). Priests don't need to cast anything else.
As a warrior once you get your first good blue weapon, you really feel your power go up. Basically just look for the best 1h or 2h you can get damage wise, and ignore whatever is on the actual weapon for stats. This is a reason a lot of staves are really good for warriors early game, they have huge damage ranges compared to other 2h and they can over double your damage output if you get one (BFD staff off 2nd to lass boss has 12 int/11 spi but massive damage range, and is one of warriors best weapons until WW axe for 2h).
The real vanilla experience is having thottbot in ur background and having to alt tab
They actually removed fullscreen mode from the client, so no alt tab delay but we have a permanent 1-screen-refresh of additional input lag.
On the subject of performance i did get in a 40 man raid a while back to see numbers, i do have a bunch of addons on (not as much as BFA, but then again not nearly as much needed) and i was hanging below my 232fps lock for the first time.
In combat it was hanging around 180fps in 40-man which is still double the FPS of BFA in a 20 man.
My group more of less fell apart. Our priest is on holidays for 2 weeks, managed to get to 48ish, the mage quit at 52 because he got sick of having to drink after every mob group and the warrior tank was only tagging along and doesnt really have motivation to play a lot anyway, i didnt want to wait any longer and started to solo quest, so now im 60 and hes 53. I dont think i have motivation to grind dungeons with randoms either, so dont know what to do now. Unfortunately theres no other game im interested in currently either =(
Call of Duty, FIFA and Borderlands is out now and the next few weeks if they appeal to you xD
But yeah i am similar to the warrior guy, i play tank and i just can't quest with friends because its not fun when you have to loot 10 items each in like a <40% drop rate and its 1 drop per loot so you gotta kill like 80 mobs to both complete said quest. Leveling through dungeons was fine but after the second run i usually started to switch off a bit. Oh well, still will play it randomly, maybe when i get some time off from work it will appeal to me.
The amount of people (including me) that dipped Classic for Borderlands the day it came out was quite amusing to me. I havent touched my lvl 30 since last week now that i think about it.
I dont know, ive started to let go of rightlick before i FD and pull the pet towards me and most of the time it works out, though it definitely takes too long to drop combat even then. But what really annoys me is when FD just does nothing. It doesnt say it got resisted but i dont drop dead either. It just doesnt do anything and your char just continues standing there and looking at the mob.
On September 20 2019 07:22 Cyro wrote: BL3 is a technical disaster so i'm not touching it. Maybe in a year when they make a more 1.0-worthy version and dump the exclusivity.
On September 20 2019 07:22 Cyro wrote: BL3 is a technical disaster so i'm not touching it. Maybe in a year when they make a more 1.0-worthy version and dump the exclusivity.
So was/is classic. The point is what people enjoy more than anything with these things is novelty.
Am talking about things like denuvo - they're just taking so much away from the game for benefits which only apply to the publisher, not the consumer or developers.
And yeah, playing the same game for 5000 hours without a break is a lot harder than playing it for 3000 hours now and 2000 hours later.
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Warrior tips went great! I bought a lvl 15 blue 2h right away then got a cruel barb for sword+shield. Rank 2 thunder clap at 18 and then cleave at 20 + 5/5 on the stancedance talent and everything is starting to come together.
On September 19 2019 15:57 Emnjay808 wrote: The real vanilla experience is having thottbot in ur background and having to alt tab because no one used dual monitors then. Bet none of u fuckers are doing it the authentic way and prolly have some camgirl or twitch stream in ur other monitor.
Back in my days I pulled out a newspaper cause having a cellphone then was rare, too. Bet a lot of u fuckers touch ur phone half as much of the time while ur playing WoW, huh.
Just an anecdotal, satirical rant *smiley face
I’m level 31 in STV and love the shit out of that zone. Though I see I’m soon to be in desolace and remember that being a horrible zone to grind out in vanilla.
For true authentic experience play on a CRT monitor capped at 15 fps and scrap your gig internet for 56k.
On September 19 2019 15:57 Emnjay808 wrote: The real vanilla experience is having thottbot in ur background and having to alt tab because no one used dual monitors then. Bet none of u fuckers are doing it the authentic way and prolly have some camgirl or twitch stream in ur other monitor.
Back in my days I pulled out a newspaper cause having a cellphone then was rare, too. Bet a lot of u fuckers touch ur phone half as much of the time while ur playing WoW, huh.
Just an anecdotal, satirical rant *smiley face
I’m level 31 in STV and love the shit out of that zone. Though I see I’m soon to be in desolace and remember that being a horrible zone to grind out in vanilla.
For true authentic experience play on a CRT monitor capped at 15 fps and scrap your gig internet for 56k.
I bet you didn't even move back in with your parents and started going back to high school
Also wrt BL3 I had a similar experience in that after the 4th Slay the Spire character hit beta, I lost all interest in Classic and haven't logged in since. The game got a ton of players thanks to the hype train (especially streamers) and it's starting to see the drop off that everyone but the diehard classic fanboys predicted.
and it's starting to see the drop off that everyone but the diehard classic fanboys predicted.
I don't agree with that. People are not playing 16hrs a day every day any more and some of them stopped logging in but there wasn't a cliff's edge or anything yet - it's actually far exceeded my expectations.
5pm, 4 weeks after launch.. the realm that my friends refused to play on because it was "going to be dead".
Edit: 3 hours later (8pm eu central) we literally have a queue on the login server before being able to select a realm.
Based on the amount of realms and populations etc i'd say we're still looking at concurrent player counts peaking into the 7 figures and that classic still has more concurrents than BFA.
Very few people expect it to stay that way in the long term (years) but clearly it can do it for 1 month and probably a good bit longer.
xD my CRT monitor can do 85Hz, and I have another one that does 100Hz^^ also there was ADSL since quite some years when wow came out. but you probably know that
Desolace: there is usually good pvp action around kodo cemetry
I'm a bit surprised that the consensus is fairly negative here, I'm absolutely loving this game . I'm a bit too hooked on it currently though, it's a bit unhealthy...
Asmongold announced on his stream last night that he is hosting another dueling tournament (on his realm, alliance Ferlina or something idk) with a prize pool of $40,000 at the moment and should climb more. He announced it to 100,000 viewers while he was crafting server first legendary. He then mentioned a molten core race tournament as well which will have prize money too.
Quite strange how a dueling tournament and molten core race is getting investors to stump up money xD
Shit ton of money involved in streaming. Despite appearances (especially because of them, he doesn't seem to spend a lot of money) Asmon is hella rich. He's publically earning something like $100k/month right now but hard to verify exact numbers without him giving them.
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On September 24 2019 16:33 TheDougler wrote: I'm a bit surprised that the consensus is fairly negative here, I'm absolutely loving this game . I'm a bit too hooked on it currently though, it's a bit unhealthy...
A couple of posters either way is anecdotes, not consensus!
Ah good times, never had it quite that bad but I fondly remember an hour long running battle through Azshara as we tried to secure the first Azuragos kill. Or the time we finished the raid early and queued into Alterac Valley with a whole bunch of people.
Was running SM Armory, cleared everything up until Herod, pulled him, everything froze for about 4 seconds and the latency bar turned red, and then four myrmidons spawned on top of us and we wiped and had to run back. On the run back, there was a previously unspawned line of mobs in the final hallway that had now appeared.
Silly glitch lol. On a related note, SM is one of Blizzard’s crowning design achievements imo, such a well designed piece of game (glitch notwithstanding lol).
So Desolace kodo cemetry doesn't have nearly as much action on full server of classic than servers like Northdale had (or other vanilla servers with 5-10K~ population). And so it goes for a lot of places after level 30, due to layering of course. However there are still always places to pvp outdoors so it's still fine, just not quite as much choice if you want active pvp everywhere because of layering. There is also a lot less complaining on Stranglethorn chat haha. (Capital cities aren't nearly as crowded ofc.)
Laerying isn't really a thing anymore, they said in the biggest realm on the game Ferlina in US only has 1 layer now and multiple realms don't even have 1 now.
ok I guess it means full server is below 5K most likely or I can't explain the difference, few days ago ppl still talking about switching layers though the difference in capital city crowd is huge (a 8K private realm had maybe 4 times more ppl in capital city, maybe more). If there is no layering then a realm must be way below 5K. Can't explain it if there's no layering cause I thought its "many times more than vanilla cap" for the population cap, and vanilla was between 1.5K and 2.5K depending on timeframe or something like that idk
Over the five weeks since we launched WoW Classic, we’ve continuously monitored realm populations and utilized layering when necessary to handle launch populations. As we’ve said before, we will have all realms on a single layer before introducing world bosses, and a great deal of progress has been made toward that goal.
First and foremost, players have leveled up and spread out around the world. This allowed us to accommodate more players per layer, which means fewer layers required per realm. The last time a server in this region had more than three layers was the first week of September, and almost all realms reached two layers shortly after that.
Along the way, some select realms reached their end-state of a single layer, and we locked that in. With a change we made earlier this week, the following WoW Classic realms are now permanently set to one layer:
Bloodfang Dragonfang Earthshaker Hydraxian Waterlords Judgement Ten Storms
Be on the lookout for another change that we will make in the coming days: soon, realms that are operating with more than one layer will indicate that on the realm selection screen. Those realms will say “Layered” in the realm list. Thereafter, you’ll only see the Full/High/Medium/Low markers for realms that are permanently set to one layer.
We plan to move more realms to a single layer over time, and we will continue to offer free character moves to balance populations and manage login queues. In order to avoid queues in the future, we encourage you to use that service as soon as possible.
I just noticed that they kept the friendly nameplate addon block during raids for classic. Im still appalled that in 2019 you need an addon to make names go from this illegible garbage to something "fancy" And its disabled in raids and dungeons.. Does any legion player remember what boss triggered the change? I think it was Augur but im not 100% on it and google doesnt help, just that it was in 7.2
The illegibility is because they render the names @ native res (no downsampling or AA) and in one color, no background. You can semi-fix it by rendering the entire game at higher resolution (200% render scale) which is easy to do in Classic but generally expensive since GPU load more than triples.
SM is one of Blizzard’s crowning design achievements imo, such a well designed piece of game (glitch notwithstanding lol).
I couldn't disagree any harder. SM may just be the worst designed dungeon in all of Vanilla.
The theme of it is nice and all. I like how the people look and their basic story. And the dungeon is obviously hilariously OP and busted in terms of loot and XP.
But by god is it boring. Literally just one rectangular room after the next. And then a dead end in the end. Like a fucking Burning Crusade dungeon. So boring. Like, if you tasked me to design a blander dungeon than SM, I would have to fold immediately. It's impossible.
I much, much prefer BRD (the objectively best dungeon).
SM has a lot going for it in terms of availability, repeatability and most of all, recognition. I think we've all dreamt a little of wrecking a church, especially full of blood-eyed fanatics.
hmm in light of recent shootings that sounds wrong. :E
On October 07 2019 01:09 ProMeTheus112 wrote: ok I guess it means full server is below 5K most likely or I can't explain the difference, few days ago ppl still talking about switching layers though the difference in capital city crowd is huge (a 8K private realm had maybe 4 times more ppl in capital city, maybe more). If there is no layering then a realm must be way below 5K. Can't explain it if there's no layering cause I thought its "many times more than vanilla cap" for the population cap, and vanilla was between 1.5K and 2.5K depending on timeframe or something like that idk
There isn't much reason to just hang out in the city at this point in the game like in later phases, so that may not be the best comparison. For Alliance at least, they're split between Ironforge and Stormwind if they are in city because Stormwind is a better hearthstone hub for leveling characters. Vanilla cap was 2500 players on server at a time, and my understanding is that the current realm cap is 10k.
I love SM, did strat living side a couple times and that wasn't very fun. Awful trash mechanics that have tanks asking people to afk around a corner or play melee hunter
On October 07 2019 01:09 ProMeTheus112 wrote: ok I guess it means full server is below 5K most likely or I can't explain the difference, few days ago ppl still talking about switching layers though the difference in capital city crowd is huge (a 8K private realm had maybe 4 times more ppl in capital city, maybe more). If there is no layering then a realm must be way below 5K. Can't explain it if there's no layering cause I thought its "many times more than vanilla cap" for the population cap, and vanilla was between 1.5K and 2.5K depending on timeframe or something like that idk
There isn't much reason to just hang out in the city at this point in the game like in later phases, so that may not be the best comparison. For Alliance at least, they're split between Ironforge and Stormwind if they are in city because Stormwind is a better hearthstone hub for leveling characters. Vanilla cap was 2500 players on server at a time, and my understanding is that the current realm cap is 10k.
I've seen server starts for 8-10K servers and it was much more crowded few weeks in like this, but will see. I think there are still bunch of layers on my full server, or the cap isn't really 10K. If they're going to drop layers on 10K servers I think that's good, although overcrowding happens and it can be kinda hardcore going in a place like STV (gets called STVietnam right? :/) unless you overlevel a bit, you get lively action in many more places in the world and you can still find quieter places if you want (cause world is pretty huge anyway, there are always some quiet places at any level).
There are multiple people killing murlocs on the beaches of Westfall at 3am on my server plus a handful of people in the town and we still have two layers. L60 farm spots are contested into the early morning; that's good enough for me.
Ion says that all layers will be gone in a "couple of weeks" so that would mean probably before BlizzCon and phase 2 will be implemented before the end of the year. Interesting!
They just announced that they're releasing dire maul early (in a week.)
I'm actually a little annoyed at that because it's breaking from the content release schedule so soon, good for the people who play one char for 14hrs a day every day but i'm far from done with the current content despite playing unhealthy amounts of time.
On October 08 2019 04:05 Cyro wrote: They just announced that they're releasing dire maul early (in a week.)
I'm actually a little annoyed at that because it's breaking from the content release schedule so soon, good for the people who play one char for 14hrs a day every day but i'm far from done with the current content despite playing unhealthy amounts of time.
And this bad becaussse..... if your behind DM might disappear ?
On October 08 2019 04:05 Cyro wrote: They just announced that they're releasing dire maul early (in a week.)
I'm actually a little annoyed at that because it's breaking from the content release schedule so soon, good for the people who play one char for 14hrs a day every day but i'm far from done with the current content despite playing unhealthy amounts of time.
And this bad becaussse..... if your behind DM might disappear ?
Every phase/step invalidates prior content to a degree. From my understanding much of the current BIS list is replaced in dire maul - not only preraid BIS that most people are wearing, but a substantial amount of molten core gear as well.
Comparatively that devalues strat/scholo/ubrs/lbrs/mc and such which i haven't experienced much yet, i haven't ever killed a boss in two of those instances.
Less reward means that other people will be less willing to experience that content with me as they'll be focused on the better rewards from arguably lower quality / more limited content.
On October 08 2019 04:05 Cyro wrote: They just announced that they're releasing dire maul early (in a week.)
I'm actually a little annoyed at that because it's breaking from the content release schedule so soon, good for the people who play one char for 14hrs a day every day but i'm far from done with the current content despite playing unhealthy amounts of time.
And this bad becaussse..... if your behind DM might disappear ?
Every phase/step invalidates prior content to a degree. From my understanding most of the current BIS list and even a bunch of molten core gear is replaced in dire maul.
Comparatively that devalues strat/scholo/ubrs/lbrs/mc and such which i haven't experienced much yet.
Man is that true? Somehow I avoided DM in vanilla (have run all the various parts several times over the many changes/iterations of later expansions though) but I feel like I would have heard more about it if that were the case. Back then I remember I ran a lot of Scholo and UBRS and a bit of ZG/MC/Ony, just dodged DM somehow, when it was always that good? Weird lol.
I didn't run DM either and i wasn't expecting a release until a month or two later so i haven't looked into it that much, not sure on the extent of the impact but it's clear that there will be a substantial change.
I'm going to hope/assume based on a) the fact that these servers are still pretty busy compared to vanilla servers and b) I probably ran DM once or twice ever in vanilla while I did plenty of scholo and UBRS and a few others, that lots of people will still run a bit of everything even if "technically" one has slightly better loot.
I think it's a much different (and more marginal) scenario than if they were already pushing out BWL or AQ or Naxx just because people were farming Rag week 2.
I've already interacted with plenty of people who seem like the type to just do whatever they want even at 60, blissfully unaware of what's hyper-optimal and exactly which 3 out of 89 instance bosses they need to kill for that perfect upgrade. I don't think there will be a mass exodus to any one specific content just because things are on a weird schedule.
DM has a lot of BiS stuff but it will also impact economy heavily. A lot of flowers, ores but most importantly raw gold through vendor items can be farmed, even solo. Im just happy for the better mage water which will make the downtime between pulls a bit more bearable.
Well DM had the books. Or "BEWKS!' if you found some.
I was a stickler for coming into raiding as geared as possible, but DM isn't anything you guys should worry about. You can clear MC fine without it. Basically, heavily gear one tank, get a lock or two to actually farm FR and you have MC down. The difficult part of it was getting 40+ people together for a time slot and, once on rag, who all had FR gear (not just the banish bot locks and the the MT) and basic listening skills. It was largely tank and spank.
For some of the fights, it was beneficial to have OOC ressers, but only if you were messy. The OOC nature of doing that <X> number of players down, just to res a mistake, was never really absolute in MC IMO.
People posting classic stuff like it is news (particularly the YouTube 'news' content) a decade and a half later is really funny though. Thanks for that! It is like a combination of nostalgia, and seeing things you are nostalgic for through the eyes of a new player at the same time.
On October 08 2019 15:10 MattyClutch wrote: Well DM had the books. Or "BEWKS!' if you found some.
I was a stickler for coming into raiding as geared as possible, but DM isn't anything you guys should worry about. You can clear MC fine without it. Basically, heavily gear one tank, get a lock or two to actually farm FR and you have MC down. The difficult part of it was getting 40+ people together for a time slot and, once on rag, who all had FR gear (not just the banish bot locks and the the MT) and basic listening skills. It was largely tank and spank.
For some of the fights, it was beneficial to have OOC ressers, but only if you were messy. The OOC nature of doing that <X> number of players down, just to res a mistake, was never really absolute in MC IMO.
People posting classic stuff like it is news (particularly the YouTube 'news' content) a decade and a half later is really funny though. Thanks for that! It is like a combination of nostalgia, and seeing things you are nostalgic for through the eyes of a new player at the same time.
As has been proven since the first couple of weeks of classic.You didnt even really need that. The game is a joke as far as mechanical challenges are concerned and should be enjoyed for at ones own pace
On October 08 2019 04:05 Cyro wrote: They just announced that they're releasing dire maul early (in a week.)
I'm actually a little annoyed at that because it's breaking from the content release schedule so soon, good for the people who play one char for 14hrs a day every day but i'm far from done with the current content despite playing unhealthy amounts of time.
And this bad becaussse..... if your behind DM might disappear ?
Every phase/step invalidates prior content to a degree. From my understanding much of the current BIS list is replaced in dire maul - not only preraid BIS that most people are wearing, but a substantial amount of molten core gear as well.
Comparatively that devalues strat/scholo/ubrs/lbrs/mc and such which i haven't experienced much yet, i haven't ever killed a boss in two of those instances.
Less reward means that other people will be less willing to experience that content with me as they'll be focused on the better rewards from arguably lower quality / more limited content.
This may be true the way the current release cycle for retail works and for raids in general. But not so much in the case of DM or dungeon releases.
Besides that point, if people like you are suggesting are going around pigeonholing themselves into content to farm pre bis items and skipping over other content then they are playing it the same way you would retail. I am not suggesting you shouldnt try to get the best gear available or not rush to new content. But at the same time, that barely matters when the purpose was to get the "classic experience".
This is the same thing people do in retail. Get burnt out or mismanage their expectations and then find things to complain about. Play the game at a healthy pace and with a healthy attitude and its not a problem. And if you arent doing so, dont blame the game..
If you constantly have a fear or worry about "getting behind" some imaginary curve then thats a player problem not the games.
As for DM itself.
The biggest impact DM had was to the games economy, lots of people farmed their way to Flying mount money even before BC came out, items were impactful and the tomes were big, but it didnt mean you just skipped over the rest of the content. People still did other shit because it was fun to do.
And if people arent doing that now, then again what about that "classic" experience ?
Wasnt that the whole point ?
To not level like you were running mythic Islands for 4 hours ? To NOT flash firm prebis and bis ?
And tbh the Ogre part of DM was the least fun for me personally. But it was the one that got run the most for tribute buff gathering before raids. And I imagine that will be the case now. IIRC the tomes were in the other ones so that got alot of love till the tomes became common.
Just remember.. We are playing 1.12... We got "sane" talent trees and allready redesignt loot and redesignt spellbalance. WoW 1.X-1.1X was not like this.
Yeah, hardcores would still crush everything even with the old trees but this stuff has not much to do with "release" WoW.. I'm still enjoying it tho, lvl 43 now (was 3 weeks "afk") having more fun than i had since cata.. i liked early cata...
Absolutley no idea why they allready bring DM, i guess the cries of morons that took holydays for wow are strong.
Yeah 1.0x was substantially different than what we're playing in a few ways. Not that I'm complaining, 1.12 is objectively better and more refined. But I think one of the reasons progression has been so quick is the talent trees being up to 1.12.
I wonder how fast they will release the content, and what they'll to with expansions. I'd be interested in eventually, like in a year say, doing BC. But after that my interest fades with the later expansions. I'd like it they left the option to remain in vanilla or even to do a copy over of characters to new BC realms and keep both iterations.
for me its all about vanilla due to flying mounts pretty much killing wpvp in TBC, plus other problems i believe in TBC with less linear stat progression and perhaps talent balance (i usually even stop playing when nax releases due to nax gear being broken to be up against when you don't have it, since i dont do raids)
Yeah, World PvP is what makes Classic fun. As a Warlock i finally got Death Coil at 42 on Monday. I feel like a god when compared to before… At least until Insignias comes out .
i dont think insignias can cancel out death coil "run away" effect can they? is it a fear effect? i only learned some month ago that the fear spell of warlock is 20yard range, feel much stronger now lul (feel that warlocks and shadow priests are strongest opponents vs druid.. i think?_?) 626 kills 144 deaths btw <= lul. NE druid 40 just bought mount about 7 days /played
death coil 2 min cooldown 30 yard range instant cast, causes target to run in horror (opposite from where you're facing i think) for 3 sec and deals a bit less than 1 damage per mana and healing the warlock for as much as the damage. Not the *most* mana efficient but a type of instant damage+healing spell for warlock and key would be warlock is able to apply some dots or cast some spell over this 3sec duration and perhaps also cause you to run somewhere bad such as in mobs or towards him/her.
sacrificing voidwalker gives 30 sec of quite a lot of damage absorbption instantly <= good to know 0_o. may want to choose to just run away for 30sec sometimes
[tbh i would likely enjoy playing a warlock one day but omg the time it would take to play all them interesting classes huhu ; cause i think after druid i like pala, shaman, hunter.. warlock mage huhuhu]
Warlocks were never underpowered lol. It was just alliance getting rekt by 20 second inmuties from the will of the forsaken. That patch actually nerfed warlocks by removing negative resistances, but it made it much better for alliance locks due to death coil and lowering the uptime on will of the forsaken.
Source : i was a lock.
Edit : oh, and they also couldnt use soul link because it could be purged by shamans.
They added the layering display to the realm list yesterday, about 85% of EU realms still have multiple layers.
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Dire Maul is live now, looks like most of the private server farm runs are not doable because there are more mobs / different aggro radius / different drop rates etc. It sounds like a lot of the values that pservers were using were guessed or pre-fix values as blizzard did a lot of tuning between DM release and 1.12
My realm seems to be doing great - it has population that is too low to be a major problem (no free transfers off etc) but too high for any realm to transfer to.
For me it's pretty good but I'm constantly thinking of each area I pass through how it was on a realm like Northdale and man it was something else honestly haha but it's still pretty good. Some areas get rather undercrowded when it's not prime time you know, and they never really get as much action. And I'm not sure i'll get much action in some areas at all will see. However overall, there is still a good amount of action, so it's pretty good. I can't go just about anywhere and get a lot of action at just about anytime. Really wish they drop the layers on 10K~ pops, it's worked for smoothing server start sure but I think it's long past time they're needed at all. I'm sure some players will complain in STV and some places though, game on 10K in some areas can be pretty hard but it's fun and you learn fast too I mean there's always a couple complaints about wpvp in chat even now, it's kinda natural. So far the best server I have seen was Northdale despite it having quite a bunch of bots also. Picture going at STV nagas at any time of day, and there were a few hordies scouting around with mounts and a few allies too there, and on the surrounding beaches, and over the next area after the river there was likely someone too etc. Same for most places, it's hard to describe but the activity really was something else and it makes more engaging gameplay tbh, even though you can make a case about overcrowding since you can get wrecked by CCs (and invisibility) in this game as soon as you have some disadvantage.
But you know I mean, if I'm going some place and there isn't a hordie at all, I'm just farming mobs, and that's not really what I play the game for I need some enemies around me less than a screen away to interact with and hopefully more than one and some allies too : O mobs are part of it but anytime I'm doing single player it's kinda bummer, although there are actually quite a bunch of different ways to farm, it's not that hard or interesting, it's not as good as for example diablo 2 singleplayer you know what I mean, I want players around me in the open world at all times pretty much^^ my opinion
Even with our population cut in half it's more full than i've ever seen the game before. At the weekend i was running through some cemetary quests in duskwood and we literally had two full 5-man groups competing for ghoul ribs, plus more players to rotate in as people finished quests and left.
We still have the full population for forming premade groups so most of the benefit of a large and consistent population already exists.
It would be nice to see everyone all at once but it would also be god awful to have to log in at 3am if you want to have any murlocs left over to kill.
yeah overcrowding can happen it's true, when some place gets overcrowded I would just go some place else and do that quest later or not at all, for example. So you could say there's pros and cons. It's hard to see what it's like at 10K pop until you've played it, it can be hardcore sometimes even cause you may get ganked a lot also (typically at lvl20 you may be afraid of stepping into the contested zones cause you'd need some extra levels to survive a lot better basically), but you can also have a really good experience and see interesting action happen in a lot more places and more often.
The thing is if there's no layers, overcrowded places tend to push players to spread out to other areas and likely you just get more people all over the world rather than a massive overcrowding in one place. Places can still be quite tame on 8K population such as Azshara and others, or even parts of some areas like plaguelands or winterspring which are the more crowded areas at 60. Some roads around searing gorge / blackrock mountain may get semi-hellish at times to be fair.
How many people does there have to be in each hub with 7 quests for it to be considered broken in your eyes if you wanna go ahead and up it from 65 to 130? :D
How many people are in STV on your realm and faction?
only 12 right now xD but its late ofc 4pm now: doesn't list more than 50 with /who, there are 36 in 39-45 range, only 20 total in Desolace though for example [not too bad, but it gets low later part of evening for example, or off prime-time]. STV being most crowded in the world along with barrens, it also has large level range.
My realm is a weird one. Im on Everlook EU, which is PvE. According to that census app two weeks ago it was the most populated server in EU which a decent balance. However it feels basically dead to me since..always. It is impossible to find a tank for a dungeon and when im with my tank and healer buddies it takes us up to 20 minutes to find a mage/rogue. There are very few pug mc/ony runs. At most you can see two per day at 19/20 server time. But what's the most weird to me is that there is never anyone farming the devilsaurs. Whenever i go to ungoro i see almost no one looking for them and if i just afk camp one spot i always get it uncontested. When i actively farmed them to get gold for my mount i got up 100g/h and what little competition i had always went away after an hour or so. Meanwhile other servers seem to have literal mafias that are controlling the market.
Anyway, i just dont understand why people are jerking off so much that they can see dozens of people in the capitals and how that is superior to retail. Yea, there are a lot of people in the capital, because this game has fuck all to do. They are either afk or forced to search for a tank in a fucking chat for an hour to do their shitty dungeon. There are people in retail too you know, they dont waste their time in a capital doing nothing. And it has fuck all to do with sharding. Its not that i like sharding either, i just cant stand this baseless circlejerk. And of course you see more people in the world, they cant fly. And because the game literally just launched. It wont be the same in two or three months. It has fuck all to do with sharding.
Very easy to get DPS where i am, major shortage of tanks though to the point where i often start groups by finding a tank and then looking for DPS afterwards.
I started leveling a warrior myself but i didn't like it much & my leveling partner had to take a few weeks off. I might level a second paladin to do stuff as Prot :D
On October 18 2019 22:45 Warri wrote:Anyway, i just dont understand why people are jerking off so much that they can see dozens of people in the capitals and how that is superior to retail. Yea, there are a lot of people in the capital, because this game has fuck all to do. They are either afk or forced to search for a tank in a fucking chat for an hour to do their shitty dungeon. There are people in retail too you know, they dont waste their time in a capital doing nothing. And it has fuck all to do with sharding. Its not that i like sharding either, i just cant stand this baseless circlejerk. And of course you see more people in the world, they cant fly. And because the game literally just launched. It wont be the same in two or three months. It has fuck all to do with sharding.
Well the amount of people in the capital is mostly just a quick tell for the player density you will find in the rest of the world. [although it feels nice to have a big crowd to dodge your way around town too tbh^^] And that is important for your gameplay especially if you're into wpvp, but I suppose also if you like to coop quests and farming which I do (much rather be farming next to some ally than no one at all). Some of us have played on these realms that had 8K or 10K populations without sharding, we know what it feels like and it indeed is something else. So we can tell it's about sharding too, because we also have experience of playing on 2K population or 5K population, basically you become able to tell about where you are at and where you'd want to be. Some players do prefer lower population however, afaik. I used to have mixed opinion about it, due to the toxicity of forums on Nostalrius for example. But then I tried Elysium, Kronos, Northdale, which all had different populations and the best experience I had was on Northdale which had low corruption (presence of bots though) and high population and it was the best vanilla experience I have seen.
I think there is a ton to do in this game, for me it's all about wpvp. I don't really care about instances, I'm looking for open world action because it is what makes a MMO unique and awesome in my view anyway. So I barely ever go to a dungeon, and never to a raid or even a BG. But I have a lot of fun playing all the time so long as I'm not doing single player farming. It's such a long ride wpvp-ing my way to 60 and after, and there are even so many ways to do it as Druid, that I have only done it that far with Druid a bunch of times (also played some hunter, warrior, and to smaller extent shaman, pala). Then I would love to do it with pala shaman hunter warlock and mage, but I'm not sure I'll ever have time for it lul. Plus I would want to do it on a server that doesn't have naxx on it : P
One thing I really want to see is wpvp objectives activated (apparently that comes only in phase 6 @_@), which they weren't on private servers. There *are* a few improvements over private servers in classic, but also other advantages yet to private servers such as much quicker response time : P
On October 18 2019 11:07 ProMeTheus112 wrote: only 12 right now xD but its late ofc 4pm now: doesn't list more than 50 with /who, there are 36 in 39-45 range, only 20 total in Desolace though for example [not too bad, but it gets low later part of evening for example, or off prime-time]. STV being most crowded in the world along with barrens, it also has large level range.
We have 16% more players at 1:45am than you have at 4pm, yet both dual layer servers. That explains a lot
On October 18 2019 11:07 ProMeTheus112 wrote: only 12 right now xD but its late ofc 4pm now: doesn't list more than 50 with /who, there are 36 in 39-45 range, only 20 total in Desolace though for example [not too bad, but it gets low later part of evening for example, or off prime-time]. STV being most crowded in the world along with barrens, it also has large level range.
We have 16% more players at 1:45am than you have at 4pm, yet both dual layer servers. That explains a lot
ah yes. Maybe because english servers, you get players from other countries and with more ample timezones so you get more crowding over more hours or something like that maybe I should have made some chars on english servers felt like playing FR servers to try it out -_- still i think my server would be much better off without layering for these reasons eh
i could remake some alt on english server later see what it's like will see
On October 20 2019 03:29 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Which ones would be the most populated english realms btw (pvp), anyone know?
Whitemane, Fairbanks, Herod on US.
thx, but looks like account is region EU so I can't play on US servers with it, guess i would have to get a second subcription not gonna do that Even though, would be good to have a alt on far server to play at off hours^^ most populated english EU realms anybody knows??
I know a few, but they're either PVE or functionally PVE because all of the players of one faction left when they opened server transfers due to the populations
On October 20 2019 03:29 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Which ones would be the most populated english realms btw (pvp), anyone know?
Whitemane, Fairbanks, Herod on US.
thx, but looks like account is region EU so I can't play on US servers with it, guess i would have to get a second subcription not gonna do that Even though, would be good to have a alt on far server to play at off hours^^ most populated english EU realms anybody knows??
On October 20 2019 03:29 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Which ones would be the most populated english realms btw (pvp), anyone know?
Whitemane, Fairbanks, Herod on US.
thx, but looks like account is region EU so I can't play on US servers with it, guess i would have to get a second subcription not gonna do that Even though, would be good to have a alt on far server to play at off hours^^ most populated english EU realms anybody knows??
Gehennas, Shazzrah, Firemaw
Gehennas is one of those realms that were ultra-high-pop (5hr queues into the second month of classic) and then had an alliance exodus after faction-agnostic server transfers opened while it was more than 1.5 : 1 in favor of horde. Rumor is there are 5 horde for every alliance player now.
Shazzrah was also 60/40 in favor of horde and high pop so i expect similar
Firemaw was 56/44 a while ago. It's a better place to start, but make a char and do some scans of e.g. STV population on each faction.
If you're trying to play horde then there's a lot less caution needed but it's still probably important to end up on a realm which is 60/40 and not 80/20.
Thanks guys, I was scanning a few servers Firemaw and Gehennas included, but I didn't scan both factions I was thinking of playing horde char there, I definitely don't want to be on a 1:5 in horde favor because that means difficult to find alliance opponents. So I think I'll try playing an alt on Firemaw rather than Gehennas but also maybe scan Shazzrah @_@ thx for answers
In addition to wednesday's normal 4am scheduled maintenance they have another one scheduled in the middle of tuesday, given in US pacific time even though they're Paris etc servers. Wondering if that's a mistake on the announcement thing or if it will actually happen lol
World of Warcraft Classic drove the biggest quarterly increase to subscription plans in franchise history
They just confirmed that Classic caused a quarterly gain of more than 3.1 million subscribers, the previous record (MOP to WOD transition quarter). Holy shit.
I wonder how many of those paid the sub with retail gold, effectively making it a retail sub since those tokens were paid by retail players. Prices spiked by ~25-30% that week and havent gone down since. Naturally the game would attract a very large crowd of retired retail players but if it wasnt effectively free it wouldnt have been even close to that number.
Naturally the game would attract a very large crowd of retired retail players but if it wasnt effectively free it wouldnt have been even close to that number.
I disagree strongly, that gold has a legitimate value. Earning it isn't "free", it takes lots of time/effort/realmoney which has unarguable real world value. It can be spent or traded for lots of things that have value including the entire blizzard store so it goes without saying that it would have a strong exchange rate to real money.
My 6 month sub cost at the time ~£9 a month but the people paying via token are giving blizzard £17/month indirectly - notice how they increased the token £££ price again recently? That's probably responsible for half of your price spike.
That's 70% more money being transfered from the playerbase to Blizzard per-person-month, assuming people were buying subs in 1 month blocks. 89% more money going to blizzard if they bought 6 tokens instead of a 6 month sub block.
BFA's sell-token-buy-boost economy is also insane, billions of gold per month. It's largely responsible for rendering most in-game activities a complete waste of time for gold generation by comparison to selling your time to the crowd dumping huge piles of real money into the game. That must drive a huge percentage of their token traffic.
Naturally the game would attract a very large crowd of retired retail players but if it wasnt effectively free it wouldnt have been even close to that number.
I disagree strongly, that gold has a legitimate value. Earning it isn't "free", it takes lots of time/effort/realmoney which has unarguable real world value. It can be spent or traded for lots of things that have value including the entire blizzard store so it goes without saying that it would have a strong exchange rate to real money.[...] BFA's sell-token-buy-boost economy is also insane, billions of gold per month.
Exactly, the classic "subscriber spike" is so high because the people who pay real money part of tokens are doing so for the RETAIL accolades. If those people didnt play retail you couldnt buy tokens for gold. Hence my point that the success of classic is subsidized by retail players. You have a point that that gold could also be used for other stuff on the store but in my opinion most people dont do so, case in point myself and the two people who started to play with me. I have millions in retail and i only started classic because i could use that gold, i wouldnt pay real money for it. And of course you have a point that this is whats wrong with retail, i somewhat agree (even though i like it myself as i have the opportunity to abuse that), but that's an unrelated matter to the success of classic.
You're saying that the gold has value too but for me it doesnt. I acquired it by playing and i had fun doing so and i can not get real money out of it unless i want to risk my account getting banned for RMT. I also dont want anything out of the store/i have more gold than i need for that. So to me the gold is just gold, i spent "play"time acquiring it, not "work" time or even real money. The person who DID pay the real money for that token did so because he wanted a reward in RETAIL, not in classic. Obviously i dont have any statistics to prove my point, other than the fact that the token price increased by a lot, hinting that a lot of people paid for the sub with a token they bought for gold (like me) and a lot of them probably would not have subscribed and started playing classic if they had to pay real money (like me). So this is just my educated guess.
Anyway, from blizzards perspective this doesnt matter. Money is money and maybe they even got a lot of extra money out of it cause more people bought tokens for real money because the price spiked and they could get more gold. I just wanted to point out that classic is only this succesful because of retail players who paid that money, not classic players, and had tokens not been in the game that subscriber number would probably be like 2million instead of 3m, or even less.
The distinction you’re drawing between play time and work time is artificial and not a proper basis for arguing that gold takes on different values depending on the purpose underlying the time spent accumulating it.
Why would queues increase when they turn layers off, are they going to drop the population cap too or it remains 10K or what value?? can't wait for layers turned off huhu^^
On November 09 2019 08:54 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Why would queues increase when they turn layers off, are they going to drop the population cap too or it remains 10K or what value?? can't wait for layers turned off huhu^^
A layer is like a separate server in regards to capacity. So a server with 3 layers can handle 3x the population of a non-layered server. When you turn layering off those upto 3x population needs to fit in 1. Which it doesn't, and therefor you get queues.
When you increase player count within one area, server load increases exponentially.
If you add a copy of the zone instead past a certain point, it increases closer to linearly.
One copy of the zone can't support anywhere near as many players as 2+ could because of the differences in scaling, so for the same experience you'd need much stricter population limits.
People already regularly break the servers on e.g. faerlina when they invite everybody into interlocked raid groups to force multiple layers worth of players together within a zone. You just see a bunch of people running on the spot and it takes 45 seconds for a spell cast to start when you push the button.
Quite likely those servers with daily 2-3 hour queues will become 10 hours, prompting a lot of people to jump ship
t_t so their servers can't do the 10+K pop like northdale etc ok (northdale did so free of charge with much quicker in game response time and no faction balance problem)
I've had a good time up until post STV, though it was quite a lot better on more populated private servers. Questioning now whether I'll keep playing if servers can't handle population and bad transfer management etc. In my personal opinion, there doesn't need to be transfers at all, it's quite unnatural imo, but if you're gonna do transfer you want to watch faction balance issues obviously. Especially since there are only 2 factions, it's not like a few disadvantaged factions can sort of team up against the dominant.
Faction-only transfers were turned on today, but without announcement or warning - they limited transfers from some realms that already had transfers open, but to both factions before now.
A lot of people got split up as they decided to take the transfers and posted message e.g. in guild discord, but then after part of the guild had transferred over it was locked for their faction. GM's apparently assisting with reversing those transfers. This could've been avoided but i guess it was a rushed crunch time thing to faction-lock ASAP before removing layers as there could have been catastrophic damage done to realm communities if it wasn't in place tonight!
12 transfers on NA are horde-only, none are alliance-only. In part that'll be because of how the alliance-heavy realms came to be; they were low population realms that received a mass exodus of alliance players from the higher pop pvp realms.
Generally they're too small to support transfers going off of them so the fix is to bring horde players on (as high-pop pvp realms are extremely horde-heavy)
On November 12 2019 08:27 Cyro wrote: Faction-only transfers were turned on today, but without announcement or warning - they limited transfers from some realms that already had transfers open, but to both factions before now.
A lot of people got split up as they decided to take the transfers and posted message e.g. in guild discord, but then after part of the guild had transferred over it was locked for their faction. GM's apparently assisting with reversing those transfers. This could've been avoided but i guess it was a rushed crunch time thing to faction-lock ASAP before removing layers as there could have been catastrophic damage done to realm communities if it wasn't in place tonight!
12 transfers on NA are horde-only, none are alliance-only. In part that'll be because of how the alliance-heavy realms came to be; they were low population realms that received a mass exodus of alliance players from the higher pop pvp realms.
Generally they're too small to support transfers going off of them so the fix is to bring horde players on (as high-pop pvp realms are extremely horde-heavy)
Do they actually expect one faction to move away from a dominant server to one flooded by the other side?
Seems like Blizzard is asking people to shoot themselves in the foot.
Yeah, it would have definitely been much much better if these controls were implemented to stop either the source or destination realm from being more than 1.5 : 1 in favor of either faction BEFORE any transfers were implemented. It's damage control and future optimization at this point.
It'll still be a lot better than if they opened transfers without any faction limits for sure and there may be some traffic through the links to equalize balance and total pop as people see queues of 10,000 with nobody available to fight in the world when they do get in.
ESPECIALLY if instead of allowing e.g. 6000 people into the world, they actually cap it at 3000-3600 for one faction before throwing them in the queue. That way you would get extended queues for the dominant faction and reduced or no queues for the weaker one.. that exerts further pressure which makes it in players best interest to normalize the faction balance. It sucks for some people but it clearly sucks less than the alternative of letting servers death spiral into 90/10.
8000 is a nice pop, 9000 is fine, 10K is pretty crowded but fine... (except for STV maybe gets overcrowded at 10K and maybe barrens burning steppes searing gorge) what cap are they going to use, idk, but 8K-9K was really nice on Northdale^^ like, great. Maybe glorious even : P Still some areas weren't so populated at times like Silithus or Azshara, or Dustwallow Marsh Swamp of Sorrows etc. But it requires strong server eh
I was just using those numbers as an example but i'm skeptical of numbers like 9000 being "fine" considering that they're 3x bigger than the largest vanilla realms ever were
On November 12 2019 13:56 Cyro wrote: I was just using those numbers as an example but i'm skeptical of numbers like 9000 being "fine" considering that they're 3x bigger than the largest vanilla realms ever were
I know that's what I thought too. Some were saying the reason why the vanilla realms were only 1.5K to 2.5K was only because of technical reasons or limitations. It does depend the gameplay you are looking for and some areas can get nearly overcrowded, but if you don't like to be by yourself in the world and want to go just about anywhere and get good gameplay? The world is too big for 2K players, you'd be alone much of the time especially after STV. Of course it's an opinion. You'd find players will go to less crowded areas more when the most popular areas are crowded.
Also some ppl were suggesting before classic release it could be ideal that some realms have different caps... you could have 12K cap realms, 10K, 8K, 6K, 4K.. so you can pick your preference. Pretty good idea but maybe late for that or vote it ^^ lul
[got afk-killed while typing this by troll hunter i just killed twice lol]
The problem is the client more than the servers. Obviously on private servers large scale battles did lag the servers out, but it was never as bad as this. The client is laggy compared to 1.12.1 as it is, but having world pvp just seems to instantly make it lag out. Exactly as it was in Legion. On the 1.12.1 client you would mostly just get low FPS, here your FPS doesn't suffer as much but you can't do anything because everyone's just running in place.
Just trying to take a portal after Ony buff can take up to 5 minutes, it's a bit ridiculous.
I just hope they add BG's sooner rather than later because I'm not looking forwards to ranking in this mess.
I prefer WSG although the no time limit that they had in vanilla was a bit of a mixed bag. Had some epic games but also far more instances of corpse camping GY which with the timed games actually ends.Leave the corpse camped BG and there's every chance you will be put back into it when you rejoin the next BG.
The problem is the client more than the servers. Obviously on private servers large scale battles did lag the servers out, but it was never as bad as this. The client is laggy compared to 1.12.1 as it is, but having world pvp just seems to instantly make it lag out. Exactly as it was in Legion. On the 1.12.1 client you would mostly just get low FPS, here your FPS doesn't suffer as much but you can't do anything because everyone's just running in place.
Just trying to take a portal after Ony buff can take up to 5 minutes, it's a bit ridiculous.
I just hope they add BG's sooner rather than later because I'm not looking forwards to ranking in this mess.
Why do you say client? It's almost certaintly server. Maybe these clients are creating more server load each but that's still server failing under that load
Idk if client or server but I confirm private servers on 1.12 were running much smoother response time on high population (despite occasionally having some spikes or even crashes, overall maintained low ping and much faster response, smoother gameplay). Classic client somehow has a bit better fps, but it's not very hard to run over 60 anyway. Got quite a bunch of "micro" mistakes due to lag and loss of input at times on classic. If it's the servers, it would be nice to.. upgrade them?^^
DAMN lol way to throw your reputation in the toilet for no good reason. It's also rewriting history to a degree as people will be much more inclined to agree with the allegations of cheating world first 60 when done by somebody later proven to have these kinds of issues.
Who do I think I am? Let me tell you who I am. I am world first level 60 in fucking classic wow. I can do whatever the fuck I want. You think I'm a random player? You think I'm a fucking random player? Let me fucking clue you in bitch. I am the the guy who had 350 fucking thousand viewers playing this fucking game. Me, not you. The most views ever on this game. The first guy to hit 60. I can do whatever the fuck I want.
Haha while he was a douche, i like how this guy is alienated and loses everything for ninja'n yet the guy who did it in Asmon's guilds was basically applauded by Asmon for doing it.....saying he would have done the same thing. Classic community is so very strange xD
However, Joker was an actual idiot, he raided in Group Therapy with my mate and even he said he was a bit to much with memes and idiotic jokes and he is pretty extreme in his humour too lol.
I mean the dude only got "famous" for a 1 week meme stream questionably rushing to first 60 lol. Not a surprise that he's shedding viewers and/or that he's got a shit personality. I'm surprised to even hear his name come up again after the 60 race, didn't know he was picked up by Method (temporarily lul)
At this point i think they should definitely bring down the server capacities. This is ridiculous. Queues and/or more realms are way better than not being able to play the game.
There's a major bug at the moment with honor/hk's only being counted for 19 out of 24 hours of the day (5 hours before reset missing). Some debate going on but after reading through there is good enough data to count it as confirmed IMO.
i'm still counting my kills/deaths by hand because its a better motivator and more interesting for me than honor and ranks now (I count half a kill if an ally helped me, a third if 2 allies helped me, etc, and watch Kills/(Kills+Deaths) ratio i recommend it's fun to do. not counting grey kills or killing greys but i do count deaths by skull lul)
Lol phase 2 is a pain in the ass when you're a 46 prot specced warrior on a server where horde outnumbers alliance and camps the boats when you're just trying to get across to whatever dungeon you're running
During the week the balance on my server didn't seem too bad, alltogether the pvp around Winterspring/Eastern Plaguelands was fun and somewhat balanced… But holy shit were the allies in dire straits on saturday and sunday.
I don't really get the mindset that hates the world pvp enough to not play but also doesn't want to play on a PVE server. Do they just not really like the game in general?
On November 26 2019 02:09 Cyro wrote: I don't really get the mindset that hates the world pvp enough to not play but also doesn't want to play on a PVE server. Do they just not really like the game in general?
I think its people being ignorant about what the situation was like before Battlegrounds existed to draw the pvp crowd away from the people trying to play the game out in the world.
I'll put myself out there, I played on a PvP server in vanilla and was really looking forward to the casual encounters while leveling and at 60. It's a big part of what I remember, even though I never went out of my way to find it, and mostly PvP'd in BGs (a lot). All my friends I previously mentioned were in the same boat, we agreed on a PvP server. I just think the much larger population, as well as an overall different "ethos" and lack of naivety when it comes to WoW and gaming in general nowadays, means the experience has been different in ways I didn't quite imagine. There are way more good/optimized players now, higher pop just means busier in general but also means more coordinated groups and guilds out there roaming. It's no one's particular fault, sure there are more aggressive/campy players but that was the balance, it was fun to get revenge, and then the more even-handed fights were just fun, good practice for BGs, mixed up the experience, etc. There's a difference between scrappy fights and small pop-up groups while leveling just because it's busy or "that's PvP", vs every neutral town being camped by a small raid during prime time hours and unable to level in the 50s.
It's just a combination of several things that make the "experience" of classic a lot different than vanilla, even if the gameplay is identical. I'm still enjoying farming and looking forward to more instances with a closed group of friends, some of which haven't played WoW in a very long time, or are brand new. I enjoyed leveling for the most part because I had the luxury of flexible hours and could avoid the busier times (not just for ganking necessarily but crowded questing areas).
On November 26 2019 02:09 Cyro wrote: I don't really get the mindset that hates the world pvp enough to not play but also doesn't want to play on a PVE server. Do they just not really like the game in general?
If you're referring to "hates world pvp period but still rolled on a PvP server" I don't think that many exist. I'd assume most of us expected (or just remembered) a different experience than we're getting. It makes perfect sense NOW why it's so different and such a mess, but honestly when we rolled fresh at launch we didn't even think twice, of course we'd go pvp, our old server was pvp and it was fun, etc. Few of us considering transferring to pve, costs money, etc. but others like "meh ride it out, it'll just be a couple weeks" kind of like the queues were. We'll see. I like pvp, we're really looking forward to BGs, and though I probably died more often than I won while leveling, I still accepted it and enjoyed quite a few of the fights (and especially revenge or winning when you get jumped at really low HP). But this is not the same. I'm not going to jump around spamming CoC in a raid to scrape together rank 3.
On November 26 2019 02:14 Gorsameth wrote: ]I think its people being ignorant about what the situation was like before Battlegrounds existed to draw the pvp crowd away from the people trying to play the game out in the world.
This could be true too. I didn't play until I think shortly after AQ launch back in Vanilla. I can't imagine it was quite this crazy with the different population sizes, but it probably would have changed my expectations going in.
Honestly for me in Classic it's still like, I go around almost any place and I have clear vision of the difference with Northdale or a few other servers where there were ppl to pvp in most of the spots it was amazing I am missing that. It's still pretty good just wish there was a higher cap like 10K. +shorter response time from server would be great^^
Back in Vanilla, I remember world PvP being dramatically affected by the release of BGs, so there’s good reason to think the 50-60 grind will get easier once they come out this time.
On November 26 2019 03:19 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Honestly for me in Classic it's still like, I go around almost any place and I have clear vision of the difference with Northdale or a few other servers where there were ppl to pvp in most of the spots it was amazing I am missing that. It's still pretty good just wish there was a higher cap like 10K. +shorter response time from server would be great^^
WoW has never managed those player counts, only private servers did. Can only speculate as to why, but meanwhile i think that server capacities should be further limited so that literally gamebreaking lag isn't a daily event.
There has actually been a MAJOR regression here because my server worked flawlessly with layers on, even launch day. The best server performance i've ever seen from WoW in 14 years. Phase 2 comes, layers off, whole zones are unplayable with it taking 30 seconds to begin casting a spell and everybody running on the spot.
If you're referring to "hates world pvp period but still rolled on a PvP server" I don't think that many exist. I'd assume most of us expected (or just remembered) a different experience than we're getting.
I'm seeing comments like this - "WPVP would be more enjoyable if it wasn't forced upon you when you're just trying to go from Point A to Point B." constantly, which is basically the definition of a Normal server.
To clarify, i mean hating the forced PVP in particular. A Normal server is the same as a PVP server other than part of the world (neutral zones) not automatically enabling pvp.
If you're referring to "hates world pvp period but still rolled on a PvP server" I don't think that many exist. I'd assume most of us expected (or just remembered) a different experience than we're getting.
I'm seeing comments like this - "WPVP would be more enjoyable if it wasn't forced upon you when you're just trying to go from Point A to Point B." constantly, which is basically the definition of a Normal server.
To clarify, i mean hating the forced PVP in particular. A Normal server is just a PVP server where pvp mode is opt-in in neutral zones; the other conditions still stand.
Oh yeah, that's just weird. If you feel like wpvp is forced then don't play pvp, simple. I haven't seen comments like that myself but you're definitely right there lol.
I played on pve servers starting in Wrath when I rerolled to play with my fiancee. I don't have some hardcore stance on "pvp is the proper way to play" or anything weird, just genuinely enjoyed it back in actual vanilla and therefore didn't think twice when it came to classic. If I knew servers would look/feel like they do now back when classic launched I would have talked my group into Normal in a heartbeat lol. rip
Yeah, it's actually every bit as bad as i feared when deciding to roll Alliance PVE instead of Alliance PVP. Queuing into dead servers, the worst of both worlds
Well I guess they're using hardware that's too limited or classic is too heavy on the servers or both. Hope one day more private servers with big pop come up on 1.12 again @_@ it's the best i have seen for what i like to do [though its hard to get it clean too : no bots, no massive lupos count etc lul] Btw on private servers they were also using increased view distance which was interesting.
Hahahaha, pathetic. I'm like 100% sure that's only because they are flooded with tickets like this because of the current social 'meta' and cant keep up, since GM's are shared between retail and classic. What a piece of shit company.
Ya it was never that way before and i've personally had several trades and loot assigns reversed in vanilla-WOD when there was a clearly stated agreement in game chat which the other player/s violated. Thousands of anecdotes of it.
WoW was never a completely-at-your-own-risk game like EVE Online. Obviously not perfect to blindly trust people (i'd do collateral anyway) but they have always covered your ass in the past for circumstances like trading materials so that somebody else can enchant/craft a profession BoE for you or joining groups where loot rules were violated.
Not having to spend GM time on handling loot disputes is a big reason behind moving to Personal Loot so it makes a lot of sense that they now have trouble handling the influx.
There was a blue post on the issue with honor kills not counting for 5 out of 24 hours each day. It was a timing problem, should be fixed now. The HK stats page should be fixed soon.
The kill data wasn't lost, it just wasn't counted for ranking. This week's kills will supposedly be fine and count properly by the next ranking cycle.
Honor kills made within that wrong 21% of the day did not count at all for each previous week of ranking and they're not going to / can't fix that part, those people are just out of luck to get screwed by a bug - they ended up lower rank than they should be, while other people ended up higher than they deserved.
Ranking points build upon previous weeks with decay so 3 months after the fix this won't matter any more but some highly affected players will be stuck behind the curve for quite a lot of weeks.
On November 27 2019 19:41 Gorsameth wrote: Not having to spend GM time on handling loot disputes is a big reason behind moving to Personal Loot so it makes a lot of sense that they now have trouble handling the influx.
Copy pasted this, found it amusing: ...if you are one of those people 'pvping' inside of Everlook, Gadgetzan or Marshall's Refuge (the Ungoro hub). There is the quest called Are we there, Yeti? ingame, which asks you to use Umi's Mechanical Yeti on certain NPCs within these location. This item has a few interesting properties: it spawns a level 1 yeti that will run through the town following either Legacki, Sprinkle or Quixxil (depending on which of the three locations you are) you have 10 charges of this item, and once they're gone you can just abandon and retake the quest as often as you want this level 1 yeti is HOSTILE towards the opposite faction (aka red), and can be targeted as well as attacked by players of the opposite faction this yeti counts as a CIVILIAN Yes, you've read this right. Free, unlimited summonable dishonorable kills for the opposite faction ganking within cities if they are dumb enough to use aoe skills (or are bad at tab targeting). I'm playing a paladin on a horde dominated server, and been using this since the start of phase 2. By now, I've probably hit about 250 hordes with dishonorable kills using this mechanic and the amount of insults, harassments and death threats I received from hordes via the servers' discord is astonishing. This weekend I've hit a raid group of hordes ganking inside everlook with 5 DKs in a row, and seen some really crazy rage from them on discord. Some of them got so pissed off that they've quit the game from what their guild mates have told me. With the world pvp phase ending in a week, I think its time this method becomes publically known so everyone can enjoy it while it lasts. Enjoy the upcoming shitshow (or the safety of the towns), reddit. [Are we there, Yeti?]
How much does a DHK impact your honor score? I thought it is worth the same as just a few HKs. Also I always thought killing grey players should count as a DHK.
How much does a DHK impact your honor score? I thought it is worth the same as just a few HKs.
DHKs reduce your actual rank points, not your honor, so it is pretty impactful.
DHK always hurts. At top level, a number of DHKs can make it literally impossible to rank even with 24/7 play. At lower levels it can require hours more play to make up for AFAIK.
It hurts you more the harder the pvp competition is on your server as more competitive servers require more HK's / honor to be in the same percentile of players to get a certain amount of ranked points but DHK always takes away a set amount of points.
Since ranking points are cumulative with decay, a dishonorable killing spree won't just screw up your week but your ranking potential a month or two down the line.
Ok kinda weird. I don't play for honor ranks anymore personally, just recording kills/deaths and getting gear from BoE / buys / outdoors solo stuff. Usually get some kills of rank 10+ guys at times like this lul For me the honor system isn't satisfying for a bunch of reasons, it's nice that there is a system but you'd have to do BGs and the gear rewards are limited in choice higher ranks too much grinding deaths don't really count etc. Also it's a serious deterrent from playing alt chars at the same time as your main if you want to pursue that rank grind race. So now I'd much rather play those alts and not worry about ranking up that much. Done rank 6 (knight) 100% wpvp before, always having fun with the outdoors pvp though, as i said before until nax comes to the game then i usually quit.
Ive quit for more than a month now but its interesting to see how everything is starting to burn and crash. Pvp realms are a mess, between some realms being so entirely onesided that og / if get permanently camped by the opposing factions, resulting in even more people leaving and constant whinethreads on the forum and reddit from the camping side, complaining that blizzard is allowing the camped faction players to _ESCAPE_(sic) the realm - https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/e88yuo/flamelash_a_tale_of_two_braincells/ - , and also a lot of win trading, even by big name streamers, going on that is just starting to get called out. BGs open tomorrow but i dont think anything will change significantly anymore, This game is just a trainwreck. It's funny how the streamers who shilled and were the most excited for classic are actively ruining it. Here's a vod of sodapoppins and asmongolds guilds actively colluding and wintrading, as well as a bigtime retail player Lepan doing the same WHILE streaming.
To be fair win trading is for what in classic? There is nothing but an end game honor reward title of Grand Marshal isn't it? Outside of that you are just grinding for pointless stats? No rank 1 titles etc?
It is funny i agree though, those who wanted this game the most Asmongold and Soda from what i can tell (streamer wise) they are the ones just doing shit on it, farming camps and basically just getting viewers to fund their activity, they haven't earnt hardly anything in the game properly, they have just had their viewers fund them lol which isn't what the game was really about.
I am at this point just hoping for TBC addon announced at Blizzcon 2020 to get me interested again but i doubt will be many people left at this rate xD
On December 10 2019 06:35 Pandemona wrote: To be fair win trading is for what in classic? There is nothing but an end game honor reward title of Grand Marshal isn't it? Outside of that you are just grinding for pointless stats? No rank 1 titles etc?
It is funny i agree though, those who wanted this game the most Asmongold and Soda from what i can tell (streamer wise) they are the ones just doing shit on it, farming camps and basically just getting viewers to fund their activity, they haven't earnt hardly anything in the game properly, they have just had their viewers fund them lol which isn't what the game was really about.
I am at this point just hoping for TBC addon announced at Blizzcon 2020 to get me interested again but i doubt will be many people left at this rate xD
You get naxx level weapons at rank 14.
Also, TBC would be awesome. It was imo the best iteration of wow.
Yeah PvP gear is pretty awesome all the way up through max rank. Idk how much "win trading" matters for ranking up right now but once you get to rank ~12 and 13, being very close to #1 multiple weeks in a row is the only way to hit R14, which is an incredibly difficult feat to earn honestly without playing around the clock.
On December 10 2019 06:35 Pandemona wrote: To be fair win trading is for what in classic? There is nothing but an end game honor reward title of Grand Marshal isn't it? Outside of that you are just grinding for pointless stats? No rank 1 titles etc?
It is funny i agree though, those who wanted this game the most Asmongold and Soda from what i can tell (streamer wise) they are the ones just doing shit on it, farming camps and basically just getting viewers to fund their activity, they haven't earnt hardly anything in the game properly, they have just had their viewers fund them lol which isn't what the game was really about.
I am at this point just hoping for TBC addon announced at Blizzcon 2020 to get me interested again but i doubt will be many people left at this rate xD
PVP gear was pretty much top tier for raiding aswell.
On December 10 2019 06:35 Pandemona wrote: To be fair win trading is for what in classic? There is nothing but an end game honor reward title of Grand Marshal isn't it? Outside of that you are just grinding for pointless stats? No rank 1 titles etc?
It is funny i agree though, those who wanted this game the most Asmongold and Soda from what i can tell (streamer wise) they are the ones just doing shit on it, farming camps and basically just getting viewers to fund their activity, they haven't earnt hardly anything in the game properly, they have just had their viewers fund them lol which isn't what the game was really about.
I am at this point just hoping for TBC addon announced at Blizzcon 2020 to get me interested again but i doubt will be many people left at this rate xD
Asmongold never earns anything legit thats why his chat laughs everytime the game says you earned something
Im still honestly surprised people care this much about classic to keep playing it at this point
On December 10 2019 08:59 Duka08 wrote: Yeah PvP gear is pretty awesome all the way up through max rank. Idk how much "win trading" matters for ranking up right now but once you get to rank ~12 and 13, being very close to #1 multiple weeks in a row is the only way to hit R14, which is an incredibly difficult feat to earn honestly without playing around the clock.
My first and only experience with this grind was running a Feral druid that played premades around the clock between 3 people .
The guy who owned the account was an older guy we used to play lans with but in addition to the 3 guys playing it on shifts he would fill the gaps with one of those leveling/grinding service's . The character was rank 3 on EU till they ended those leaderboards (I think in the pre bc patch.. cant remember). So even though we had HWL several months before They eded the leaderboads we just kept going because of the leaderboard rank itself. Which in retrospect was kinda silly. But we were kids with alot of free time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and had just discovered cable internet...
It was funny because it was just a zerg to rank 14 based on volume. The other top 10 ranks had twice as good KD ratios and half the HK's and deaths.
It was literally just quantity over quality because none of the guys (including me) who were playing it, outside the people in the service and the owner of the account himself.. realllyyy new what they were doing playing feral in BG's
As Exciting as that was as a teenager, I find it to be quite stupid now. Then again I find most things in classic quite stupid but thats not a popular opinion so Ill go away now.
On December 10 2019 06:35 Pandemona wrote: To be fair win trading is for what in classic? There is nothing but an end game honor reward title of Grand Marshal isn't it? Outside of that you are just grinding for pointless stats? No rank 1 titles etc?
It is funny i agree though, those who wanted this game the most Asmongold and Soda from what i can tell (streamer wise) they are the ones just doing shit on it, farming camps and basically just getting viewers to fund their activity, they haven't earnt hardly anything in the game properly, they have just had their viewers fund them lol which isn't what the game was really about.
I am at this point just hoping for TBC addon announced at Blizzcon 2020 to get me interested again but i doubt will be many people left at this rate xD
PVP gear was pretty much top tier for raiding aswell.
AFAIK they gave all of the new pvp gear but we're still limited to early raids. We'll have Blackwing Lair by the time top ranks are common but still a lot of it will be BIS
The BG launch has been kinda messy. I heard servers were taken down once because people were trading across realm, can't verify that.
There were some bugs like battlemasters not buffing the end bosses leading to people doing 4 minute AV runs that had literally zero honor kills by just running to the enemy boss and killing it.
Seems we have some version of AV that's not the earlier vanilla one which is undertuned / weirdly designed and ending really quickly regardless, like 7-8-minute games every game being normal.
I have to say though, those who expect R14 are gonna get a kick up the ass soon. Such a small percentage of people can get the ranking points, even if a thousand playes are playing 24/7 on the most efficient farm spot possible like 950 of them will stall at rank 12 and that's after playing every day for months. All they'll accomplish is making world pvp and other battlegrounds irrelvant for ranking beyond the first few ranks.
Srupid question: Is the Honor-Rank in the Honor Tab your position on the server alltogether or just on your Rank? Because if so it seems pretty doable SO FAR on my server. Not for me but for someone that is willing to grind every evening.
"Last week - Standing" shows your standing relative to the server. If it says 1000 for example then there are 999 people ahead of you.
On a server with 5000 people that got 15+ honor kills, you must be in the top 10 players to get the highest amount of ranking points.
If there is a much less active server, a random PVE server for example rather than one of the original PVP megaservers - there will be far fewer people getting standing, fewer getting the top ranks as they're percentile based. It will be a lot easier to get a medium rank on less competitive servers but the very top ranks will still be heavily dependant on the activity of a handful of players on your server which could make it very hard or relatively easy depending on if they get a lot of points or not.
If there are only 3 players getting in then for all you know they could take a week off work and play in shifts and you'd never be able to compete, or maybe nobody could bother that week and you'd get top rank without much trouble.
--
Just checked it out on EU alliance, there are 500+ AV instances open and the queue is literally instant. Maybe some fun soon (:
Asmon will never get Rank 14 even if he streams the game all day for a living. Too big of a risk to account share for someone that publicly known lol.
Even if they fix/change the version of AV they implemented, I'm not convinced the matches will get much longer. I wouldn't be surprised if the AV meta shift has more to do with the players learning over time that it was the best way, not just the patch changes they made throughout the first few expansions.
On December 12 2019 01:02 Pandemona wrote: Soda....this guy man, i want classic wow it is best wow....now wants them to CHANGE the game because he isn't happy with it? Jesus lol!
The game wasn't like that. What are you talking about?
There is nothing wrong with the AV in the game, it is 1.12 AV which is the post nerfed one. There is nothing wrong with the honor it gives or any bugs Blizzard have said all the bugs that have happened so far and that isn't one of them.
On December 12 2019 07:01 Pandemona wrote: There is nothing wrong with the AV in the game, it is 1.12 AV which is the post nerfed one. There is nothing wrong with the honor it gives or any bugs Blizzard have said all the bugs that have happened so far and that isn't one of them.
You mean aside from the battlemaster bug which makes the BG basically unplayable?
It said <100 on server and I was one evening PvP'ing (group 4 riding around, kicking nelfs).
All else, the last few posts are really, everything that is wrong with classic. Fucking streamer talk that doesn't impair anyone with a brain cell that didn't roll on a "streamer server". This was obvious... So.. Have fun, i guess?
They added a new "feature", being able to instantly kick anyone and everyone from your battleground by having four friends report them as afk. It gives them deserter for 15 minutes too. Groups of griefers are actively kicking anyone who isn't zerging endboss in 5 mins, including anybody trying to do the quest to get their trinket etc.
That happened again all the time and happens in BGs now ? If you get 5 or more AFK reports you are kicked out. What battlemaster bug? The only thing i have read up on and seen is that the BG is from 1.12 which is where it was heavily nerfed to the extent you can zerg the end bosses, especially now with the player base in the game having very good gear compared to back then, and on top of it people know how AV works now compared to back those years ago were not every player did.
That happened again all the time and happens in BGs now ? If you get 5 or more AFK reports you are kicked out.
Back in the day (i don't think vanilla, but by TBC-wrath or so) if you got a certain amount of reports you would get a debuff for several minutes which would warn you that you would be kicked if you didn't participate in the BG. Being in combat would just remove the debuff so you didn't have to pay attention to it if people were falsely reporting you.
Right now you just get removed and premades of people are abusing it to kick 20 people at a time from AV for the tiniest reasons because they can do so without limit and nobody can stop them. A premade can literally kick everybody from the AV that isn't in the premade so that another premade can join their instance, then kick all of the people who are queueing in but not in their friend group.
I did many hundreds of AV's in Vanilla-WOTLK and literally never got kicked by that debuff system because i didn't afk it, yet in classic i got kicked from my first AV immediately and got a 15 minute deserter.
Wait 15min and try luck again? No, i scanned reddit and tens of thousands of people are complaining of the exact same thing. I'm just gonna wait until they fix their shit.
What battlemaster bug?
In AV the battlemasters around the final boss are supposed to give enormous buffs to the end boss so that it's not possible to fight and kill him with all of them up, they would just wipe your whole raid. You're supposed to disable those buffs & battlemasters by taking down objectives as you push towards the end, thus making the end boss vulnerable. This is why most of the objectives exist on the map.
Those buffs aren't working, end boss has a tiny fraction of the hp and damage that it's supposed to have, easily zergable and there's no need to take any towers.
If a character goes AFK, he/she will leave the battleground and gain the Deserter debuff. This prevents entry to another battleground for a 15 minute duration. You can report an inactive player by right clicking the player's portrait and selecting "Report AFK". When enough reports are registered, a 60 second debuff will begin to count down. Once the timer is up a new debuff will appear that will prevent the player from gaining any honor or marks while it is on. This debuff can be negated as soon as the player engages in PvP combat. This system is often abused, since a player can have good reasons for not participating in PVP, for example when he is defending.
Yes so this is actually a genuine bug as this is patch 1.12 change for AV saying that the afk report should pop the window up as you say, so ill accept there is a bug on that.
However on the battlemaster giving damage, i believe that was nerfed in multiple patches;
NPC difficulty has been scaled down. All NPCs have had their power reduced by 15-30%.
Creatures that remain in Alterac Valley have had their hit points reduced.
The buff that is periodically cast by each faction's Captain has been changed to a flat 20% hit point buff.
Also they removed NPCs by a large number that were protecting the battlemasters at the end and on the way into the final base.
The way AV is played post those changes in Vanilla is how it is played on live now. You run north, take a graveyard and the outpost in the base, kill end boss with 2 battlemasters up or more.
Other than that i can't comment much on the balance, i never played AV that way. Maybe it was the best strat for a part of vanilla but not most of vanilla or TBC+. If so i don't have any interest in playing it cause that's dumb and it was reverted for being dumb after some months.
That is how i played it in AV in TBC tbf i didn't play Vanilla cuz my pc was bad and took me like 6 weeks to level from 1-20 xD didn't get 60 until 1st week of TBC haha. But even so the way i started playing AV which was in TBC was running up to cap graveyard, taking the outposts in the alliance base then running to kill general. AV was never a good BG, AB is the best and most balanced i felt.
Yeah almost every AV I ever played in vanilla was just a race to the bosses, with a few people running around actually trying to kill people and failing miserably. I only remember one that wasn't like that and it was the very first one I did when AV was first released and no one had any idea what to do.
I also would prefer a WoW tourney based around AB than any other form of PvP they show us, i really think that is the most fun BG to play and could get some good fun maybe in a tournament setting.
They are doing a WSG twitch rivals event today with teams playing in that, but WSG seems bit broken
On December 13 2019 01:13 Theoren wrote: Yeah almost every AV I ever played in vanilla was just a race to the bosses, with a few people running around actually trying to kill people and failing miserably. I only remember one that wasn't like that and it was the very first one I did when AV was first released and no one had any idea what to do.
Pretty sure you are wrong, or you only played the latest iteration of AV.
Most servers wouldn't even go for that rush because you could have a queue of 1 hour. Oh, and also include whole cross-server that weren't in phase 2, and regions being immense for afterwards, completely diluting the community sense in the bg server scene.
On December 13 2019 02:43 Pandemona wrote: I also would prefer a WoW tourney based around AB than any other form of PvP they show us, i really think that is the most fun BG to play and could get some good fun maybe in a tournament setting.
They are doing a WSG twitch rivals event today with teams playing in that, but WSG seems bit broken
I also prefer AB, but to be honest, I don't care much about tournaments in WoW.
On December 13 2019 01:13 Theoren wrote: Yeah almost every AV I ever played in vanilla was just a race to the bosses, with a few people running around actually trying to kill people and failing miserably. I only remember one that wasn't like that and it was the very first one I did when AV was first released and no one had any idea what to do.
Pretty sure you are wrong, or you only played the latest iteration of AV.
Most servers wouldn't even go for that rush because you could have a queue of 1 hour. Oh, and also include whole cross-server that weren't in phase 2, and regions being immense for afterwards, completely diluting the community sense in the bg server scene.
If you mean that people intentionally dragged AV out because the queue took so long, I don't believe you.
I'm still also convinced people are leaning too hard on the "new, nerfed iteration", 1.5 vs 1.12 debate. Even if they implemented the 1.5 AV the vocal crowd was/is begging for, this way of playing it would still be happening, and still be most efficient.
People STARTED zerging AV more when it became easier to do. But people will KEEP zerging AV now because they realize it's the best way to play it, regardless of the version or buffs/nerfs. Or the queue.
Most of my vanilla server's AVs were so long I could go to school and come back and join the same one. It wasn't really possible to rush them because of the auras that the tower generals gave to the main boss making him one shot everything and you would always have defenders at each tower trying to cap it back.
^That's the version of AV that i played many hundreds of times and liked the most too, although the vast majority of that gameplay was TBC-Era. The average game was less than an hour but some did go multiple hours.
Even the hard zergs took twice as long as now since it wasn't possible to win without waiting for the towers to cap. At worst we would sit around and have a dance party while watching the progress bar tick down.
I was under the impression that Classic would be balanced like that, but apparantly not. The 1.5 version does sound far closer.
On December 13 2019 01:13 Theoren wrote: Yeah almost every AV I ever played in vanilla was just a race to the bosses, with a few people running around actually trying to kill people and failing miserably. I only remember one that wasn't like that and it was the very first one I did when AV was first released and no one had any idea what to do.
Pretty sure you are wrong, or you only played the latest iteration of AV.
Most servers wouldn't even go for that rush because you could have a queue of 1 hour. Oh, and also include whole cross-server that weren't in phase 2, and regions being immense for afterwards, completely diluting the community sense in the bg server scene.
If you mean that people intentionally dragged AV out because the queue took so long, I don't believe you.
I'm still also convinced people are leaning too hard on the "new, nerfed iteration", 1.5 vs 1.12 debate. Even if they implemented the 1.5 AV the vocal crowd was/is begging for, this way of playing it would still be happening, and still be most efficient.
People STARTED zerging AV more when it became easier to do. But people will KEEP zerging AV now because they realize it's the best way to play it, regardless of the version or buffs/nerfs. Or the queue.
You are convinced of something that wasn't true xD.
That's the whole point, you seem to think the current iteration is how it worked when the BG was released, it's not. This is the nerfed version because at some point blizzard wanted AV to be able to finish fast, and then it got rushable. But that's not how it was released. AV could take the whole day back then because it was easy to stalemate.
It got so stupid that they had to revert some of those changes and improve it with TBC.
On December 14 2019 07:07 Godwrath wrote: That's the whole point, you seem to think the current iteration is how it worked when the BG was released, it's not.
No I don't. I played early AV. I also played "patched" AV. I also played AV in TBC, Wrath, and Cata. I know the changes. I know how it's evolved over time. I have been in AV's that took multiple days. And multiple hours. And just a few minutes. I know the differences in the way the game can play out, I also remember coming home from work/school and the same BG is still going from the morning or even night before. I remember massive turtles, and summoning the ancients. I get why people might have wanted this, and why they remember it more clearly. But the patch/version that Blizzard chose to implement is not the sole reason why AV is playing differently than you expected.
If you can find me a different source of patch notes on the exact changes you're referring to and which patch they were implemented, I'm genuinely interested.
Notice how the latest major changes are from TBC patch 2.4, including "fixes" like the stacking health and damage buffs. And yet every expansion after that, for a decade or more, has been this "fast" AV strategy that people are complaining about in Classic right now. People got used to it, got good at it, and when Classic comes out in 2019 we use new things we've learned to make the game easier, faster, optimized. The version of AV in right now might be fastER than the original 1.5ish version would be, but I don't think it would lead to every single game being a 12 hour turtlefest.
On December 14 2019 05:04 Cyro wrote: ^That's the version of AV that i played many hundreds of times and liked the most too, although the vast majority of that gameplay was TBC-Era. The average game was less than an hour but some did go multiple hours.
Even the hard zergs took twice as long as now since it wasn't possible to win without waiting for the towers to cap. At worst we would sit around and have a dance party while watching the progress bar tick down.
I was under the impression that Classic would be balanced like that, but apparantly not. The 1.5 version does sound far closer.
I just said the reasoning for this, this is 1.12 AV the version Blizzard said is coming and the one people didn't scoff at until they realized it isn't the one they remember lol. The nerfs by 1.12 made it rush'able plus i am convinced that the average gear of the playbase who are playing classic right now is way higher than it would have been back then too. People know a lot more about where and what to do that they get gear quicker even though it takes a long time.
On December 14 2019 04:05 Valiver wrote: Most of my vanilla server's AVs were so long I could go to school and come back and join the same one. It wasn't really possible to rush them because of the auras that the tower generals gave to the main boss making him one shot everything and you would always have defenders at each tower trying to cap it back.
This is what I remember too. People would try to zerg in the original but just fail if you didnt take out at least the towers on the way. You could get some short 10-15 minute games by sending groups to each tower to cap them while the main grp takes out the battlemaster and then zerging the boss once they all fall. But straight zerging was pretty much impossible.
Players could still do this now, they just don't because most don't want the zerg. AV would still be much shorter on average than the old version, but that isn't the actual issue most people have. I actually won one game last week by summoning the Elemental, after we killed the alliances Druids before they could summon theirs… It just takes too damn long and is not exactly exiting.
I wonder how AV does in a few months once the hype/rep/Honor-race isn't there anymore.
I think it's mostly gone already, horde learned to defend and average game length went up 5x. It's actually infuriating that 30% of the enemy team is mages and 5 mages can hold off 20 people by standing in the drek room spamming aoe lol
so much of PvP used to be engaging with druids, rogues, shamans and stuff that are really rare now
I think the worst part about AV is that they made a special 1.5 esque version for retail, but put 1.12 av in classic. I really hope they either change AV to 1.5 or even 1.8 AV or atleast nerf the honor gain. It is ridiculous how much more you get compared to WSG and what you'll get from AB once that comes out.
Controversial opinion here in saying that it hardly matters for the vast majority of players since they won't hit rank X and get any meaningful reward anyway
Personally I am having tons of fun defending and summoning griphons/ivus. Seeing the horde moral crumble after you stop them from backdooring is pretty fun. Also, the hate you get from some players by defending, is also worth it.
On December 19 2019 21:49 Cyro wrote: They just opened paid transfers and funnily enough you can transfer from PVP to PVE but not the other way around. No faction limits.
Same as it was during vanilla. Not being allowed to move from PvE to PvP is not new.
Yeah, somehow people think leveling is SOOOO much harder on PvP than PvE. Which aside from when the honour system came out whiteout BG's is just plain not true.
My guild atm is super casual and they still farm all content with no mandatory gear/consumables/specs and not even having a full raid, about 25-35 people usually and highest i saw was 37 with pugs.
The people that actively pvp have high pvp ranks because instant queue AV at any hour of any day and the average pvper gets a small fraction of the honor/week compared to servers like gehennas so they don't have to put in a lot of hours or play at any specific time to get high standing.
Pretty good life, i am gearing my hunter a bit for farming and leveling alts while i think about what to play in raids after BWL. I feel pretty bad for the people playing 5x more hours with strict rules for literally the same end state.
The guild I’m with on Earthfury puts out two full MC raids a week, and our raid one clears MC and Ony in just under two hours. There was a bit of drama and a recent GM ouster, but those seem to be blips and I am really enjoying the game still
Guild leader asked to have a look at the state of the bank, bank dude took offense, gquit with his buddy which happened to be our raid leader ("I am the guild" he said) and main tank and a bunch of people followed. Anyway I filled a slot for another guild because we we would not raid before I go to holidays and everything was smoother and faster, as a first time wow player it made me realize our raid leader was far from being as good as I thought he was, so not a big loss outside of the bank (somehow managed to convince them to give half back).
Also leveling an alt after a hunter main is a pain, no more cheetah, personal tank, "oh shit" button, dots on the map to say where is the mob I'm looking for and generally not giving a shit about the number or the level of mobs pulled. At least I have lots of money to feed the alt thanks to dire maul.
On December 20 2019 05:12 Cyro wrote: The people that actively pvp have high pvp ranks because instant queue AV at any hour of any day and the average pvper gets a small fraction of the honor/week compared to servers like gehennas so they don't have to put in a lot of hours or play at any specific time to get high standing. .
To be honest, instant queues are a trap when farming honor. In the horde atleast you can go to stretch your legs, farm something meanwhile, watch a tv show, etc, and you know you are competing against people who have the same queue times than you.
On December 20 2019 05:12 Cyro wrote: The people that actively pvp have high pvp ranks because instant queue AV at any hour of any day and the average pvper gets a small fraction of the honor/week compared to servers like gehennas so they don't have to put in a lot of hours or play at any specific time to get high standing. .
To be honest, instant queues are a trap when farming honor. In the horde atleast you can go to stretch your legs, farm something meanwhile, watch a tv show, etc, and you know you are competing against people who have the same queue times than you.
For getting rank 14 it sounds awful but i blame that more on the atrocious top half of the ranking system. For general fun play though i love it, there's absolutely nothing worse than sitting in a queue for 25 minutes and then getting backfilled into a game where you're going to lose in 10 seconds and get kicked to the back of the queue.
Porting out after a win or a game that didn't go great and having 40 horde waiting for you, 24/7, to go fresh right away is just cool I always had to sit in queues in vanilla-TBC when i actually did lots of pvp and it got old really fast sitting in stormwind for a quarter to half of your play time. With Honor2.0 spending more of your time in BG's directly translated into earning gear faster too.
I loved vanilla wow for wpvp from start to finish, but blizzard servers are undercrowded because of layers and because the max population isn't that high (apparently the way they rewrote something or their hardware can't handle a high amount of players). And also because they are region-locked, so there is even less population off peak hours. So, some private servers remain by far the best vanilla experience for me, but right now there isn't one with a high population like before Classic. So I'm waiting for that and I will greatly enjoy playing again. I will make several chars and do a ton of wpvp from lvl 20 and have a lot of fun. Count kills and deaths instead of going for ranks, and attack green chars too. Fresh^^
Last time I played WoW was during Legion and it was amazing. I skipped BFA but since Shadowlands is coming out soon and most places are still on "lockdown/quarantine" I was thinking of getting back into the game again.
I was looking at the content reveal and it says that the new level cap is 60. So does that mean when I purchase Shadowlands then my lvl 110 char will be reset to 50? Then I can just level from there? What about all my other toons that are lvl 100+?
On June 30 2020 23:21 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I loved vanilla wow for wpvp from start to finish, but blizzard servers are undercrowded because of layers and because the max population isn't that high (apparently the way they rewrote something or their hardware can't handle a high amount of players). And also because they are region-locked, so there is even less population off peak hours. So, some private servers remain by far the best vanilla experience for me, but right now there isn't one with a high population like before Classic. So I'm waiting for that and I will greatly enjoy playing again. I will make several chars and do a ton of wpvp from lvl 20 and have a lot of fun. Count kills and deaths instead of going for ranks, and attack green chars too. Fresh^^
Yeah, I wish they’d do a better job at maintaining populations on servers. Like, if you’re a Classic player, I imagine most of the issues you’d find in retail are because of bandaids they’ve had to apply because they just give up on server population/balance.
Since all i do in this game is wpvp, I sorta gave up on retail even at TBC because of flying mounts.. I took a try at wotlk and cataclysm but they were both pretty dead in terms of wpvp. Even in vanilla, there is some significant amount of problem that comes up at Nax due to the last tier of gear getting too much bigger numbers, and this only got worse afaik with all expansions. And always, flying mounts etc. Phasing, lol. So yeah for me as wpvp player wow = vanilla. For this, only some pservers ever made a big realm that gave an uncomparable experience. It's rly rly great to play on such a realm. So I'm just waiting for the next one, maybe it'll happen. [need 4K+ and best is 8K+ for rly great realm because the world is huge, no layers ofc and usually they have increased view distance which is very nice. Annnd they respond much faster than blizz servers so much better micro^^]
On July 09 2020 15:22 Emnjay808 wrote: Hi friends,
Last time I played WoW was during Legion and it was amazing. I skipped BFA but since Shadowlands is coming out soon and most places are still on "lockdown/quarantine" I was thinking of getting back into the game again.
I was looking at the content reveal and it says that the new level cap is 60. So does that mean when I purchase Shadowlands then my lvl 110 char will be reset to 50? Then I can just level from there? What about all my other toons that are lvl 100+?
Thx in advance <3
edit: fuck, wrong wow thread.
max lvl will probably go to 50, id assume scaling or something for others
I bit the bullet and purchased the boost package for TBC.
My main goal is to casually raid up to SWP. But I have no idea where to start with guild recruitment etc. if someone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it! (Guide recruitment forums etc)
I wonder what the future of Classic will be now we’re leaving Peak WoW.
I think Cata and MoP get too much hate, but thats besides the point as it clearly becomes more like retail it might not be very enticing. I personally think the idea of running Classic like a Diablo season is dumb but I’d imagine thats probably what Blizz is thinking
I'd love for them to just restart and do Classic -> TBC -> WOTLK again, as I joined in on the classic servers near the very end of TBC so I missed replaying that experience and I never played OG classic in the first go around. Although I wonder what that would do to the classic populations if the WOTLK servers remained open. If they rolled all of the WOTLK servers over to Cata and then reintroduced classic servers, I imagine there would be a large migration back to classic.
Edit: Although personally I don't recall disliking CATA that much, I think it was the ones after that when the game fell off for me.
They could try and rebrand those expansions, Cata was good from a challenge perspective, remember re rolling a healer and just normal heroic dungeons being crazy, getting oom after every pull etc and being a good challenge. However they all changed the talent system that expansion and only gave 5 levels to level. Maybe a rejigging of that might make it worth it.
Peak wow also for me was MOP, the game was in a perfect balance for me there, raids were great, my fire mage was blasting, snapshotting was great fun xD
On April 28 2023 19:52 AssyrianKing wrote: So there might be dedicated Hardcore servers
I know Turtle WoW has been picking up steam lately, it’s not “dedicated” because it has HC and non-HC going on the same server, but it does have HC. No auction house, only trades/partying with +\- 5 levels from you.
On February 02 2023 03:43 Pandemona wrote: They could try and rebrand those expansions, Cata was good from a challenge perspective, remember re rolling a healer and just normal heroic dungeons being crazy, getting oom after every pull etc and being a good challenge. However they all changed the talent system that expansion and only gave 5 levels to level. Maybe a rejigging of that might make it worth it.
Peak wow also for me was MOP, the game was in a perfect balance for me there, raids were great, my fire mage was blasting, snapshotting was great fun xD
Mists best expansion IMO. Class design peaked, the intro patch was incredible with 3 raids, it has the greatest raid in the history of the game in Throne of Thunder, it has the best trinkets of any expac, banger world bosses… It was incredible.
I think Cata would be good if they skipped the whole ruining of the old world and pushed the content forward a lot quicker.
On February 02 2023 03:43 Pandemona wrote: They could try and rebrand those expansions, Cata was good from a challenge perspective, remember re rolling a healer and just normal heroic dungeons being crazy, getting oom after every pull etc and being a good challenge. However they all changed the talent system that expansion and only gave 5 levels to level. Maybe a rejigging of that might make it worth it.
Peak wow also for me was MOP, the game was in a perfect balance for me there, raids were great, my fire mage was blasting, snapshotting was great fun xD
Mists best expansion IMO. Class design peaked, the intro patch was incredible with 3 raids, it has the greatest raid in the history of the game in Throne of Thunder, it has the best trinkets of any expac, banger world bosses… It was incredible.
I think Cata would be good if they skipped the whole ruining of the old world and pushed the content forward a lot quicker.
People hated the living shit out of Mists of Pandaria. Because: Pandas Every class had all the tech Pandas Tank were damage dealer Pandas Scenarios Pandas 1000 dailys/grind Pandas "They are just trying to appeal to the chinese market" Pandas That farm in Valley of the Four Winds Pandas People couldnt stop giving bad feedback. Thats why they toned it down with Cataclysm
Cataclysm was before MoP. And people will find anything to complain about, no matter how great it is. MoP was the best I think too, until 5.4 lasted like a year and a half. That really wore everyone down.
On February 02 2023 03:43 Pandemona wrote: They could try and rebrand those expansions, Cata was good from a challenge perspective, remember re rolling a healer and just normal heroic dungeons being crazy, getting oom after every pull etc and being a good challenge. However they all changed the talent system that expansion and only gave 5 levels to level. Maybe a rejigging of that might make it worth it.
Peak wow also for me was MOP, the game was in a perfect balance for me there, raids were great, my fire mage was blasting, snapshotting was great fun xD
Mists best expansion IMO. Class design peaked, the intro patch was incredible with 3 raids, it has the greatest raid in the history of the game in Throne of Thunder, it has the best trinkets of any expac, banger world bosses… It was incredible.
I think Cata would be good if they skipped the whole ruining of the old world and pushed the content forward a lot quicker.
People hated the living shit out of Mists of Pandaria. Because: Pandas Every class had all the tech Pandas Tank were damage dealer Pandas Scenarios Pandas 1000 dailys/grind Pandas "They are just trying to appeal to the chinese market" Pandas That farm in Valley of the Four Winds Pandas People couldnt stop giving bad feedback. Thats why they toned it down with Cataclysm
Pandas sucked - I don’t really care given the setting I thought was the best one the game found itself in.
Every class didn’t have all the tech - Kind of? It was definitely bring the player not the class, which some people who get a raid spot through FotM class selection wouldn’t like.
Tanks as damage dealers - I mean if you suck at the game this is a bad thing.
Scenarios - I mean its overweighed by the addition of things like the Brawlers guild.
1000 dailys/grind - Did you play BC? Wotlk? Classic? Legion?
They are just trying to appeal to the chinese market" - Cause we all know the Chinese genetically love Pandas? What? It wasn’t even Chinese culture, it was the Western idea of China, there aren’t dragons everywhere used as designs in actual China.
That farm in Valley of the Four Winds - Did you not like the Tillers? Why do you even play the game if non-necessary content that lots of people enjoy is a negative for you?
People couldnt stop giving bad feedback. Thats why they toned it down with Cataclysm - Uh Cata came before MoP, unless I’m misunderstanding here.
I mean it’s pretty weird that your main argument was “pandas” while ignoring the fact that raiding and class design hit it’s absolute peak during this time. Raids were fantastically designed with ToT and SoO being top 2/5 raids for most people respectively. Classes were much faster and allowed for huge skill gaps between high quality players and the room temperature IQs. If the price to pay for those two things are I have to see Pandas, I don’t get why I would care.
Do you play RP or something? Is that why the Pandas got to you?
Cataclysm was before MoP. And people will find anything to complain about, no matter how great it is. MoP was the best I think too, until 5.4 lasted like a year and a half. That really wore everyone down.
Yeah the only bad part of MoP was the length of the SoO patch.
Just started up classic again, Playing horde on Fairliena (surprise) i got my new computer on april 10th.. been grinding decently hard got to level 64 (tauren warrior) i have 2 other buddies we are playing with and looking to build a raiding guild for ICC content... (the two others are goated been playing for 10+ years) if anyone is interested in it, shoot me a message on TL. thanks broskis!
Anyone playing Classic Hardcore? I'm not but I've been really enjoying youtube compilations regarding it.
I might get into it!
Also I'm really interested to see what Blizzard does for Classic next. I know a lot of people don't like Cataclysm but I really want them to keep going as I never really got to play MoP and I regret not playing that expansion the most.
I'm playing hardcore now! I've been really enjoying the high drama and entertaining clips on youtube of people dying/failing in hardcore.
Really looking forward to next week and see what Blizzard has planned for Classic. I have to wonder how many "classics" blizzard is able to support at once since they opted not to keep up a TBC server and people are hopeful for Classic+.
Oh wow, Cata plus Season of Discovery announced. I'm not too happy with some of the choices victory rush seems like it'd be too much sustain for classic and power word: barrier doesnt seem like a Classic ability to me. Excited to see them do new dungeons and raid content though.
On November 07 2023 04:17 lestye wrote: Oh wow, Cata plus Season of Discovery announced. I'm not too happy with some of the choices victory rush seems like it'd be too much sustain for classic and power word: barrier doesnt seem like a Classic ability to me. Excited to see them do new dungeons and raid content though.
Whats a classic ability? Every "rotation" consists of 1-2 buttons
That's not true at all for normal gameplay, only endgame raiding in classic consists of 1 button rotations. Watch the makgora pvp tournament and tell me they use 1-2 buttons.
On November 07 2023 04:17 lestye wrote: Oh wow, Cata plus Season of Discovery announced. I'm not too happy with some of the choices victory rush seems like it'd be too much sustain for classic and power word: barrier doesnt seem like a Classic ability to me. Excited to see them do new dungeons and raid content though.
Whats a classic ability? Every "rotation" consists of 1-2 buttons
That's not true at all for normal gameplay, only endgame raiding in classic consists of 1 button rotations. Watch the makgora pvp tournament and tell me they use 1-2 buttons.
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