Poor me. I ran out of money at the start of last semester and sold my Hex account. But the upside is that I got the urge to find a replacement and I found Eternal.
And so I will now put enough effort into creating a post that will not be closed by administrators.
What is Eternal?
It is a digital card game that is in early access. You can find it on steam. It had a closed beta, which is now over. It is free to play, using a payment model that is similar to hearthstone, though perhaps a little more forgiving about grinding out cards without spending money.
What kind of gameplay does it have
It's basically a compromise between hearthstone and magic the gathering. It's has a lot of the streamline of hearthstone, but puts in a little more complexity like magic the gathering. So, if you don't like how slow and convoluted playing magic (or Hex) is online, but you find Hearthstone to be a little boring or repetitive, then this may be the game for you.
Is it PvE or PvP
Both. You can grind out cards in 2 different PvE modes, or you can play drafts / ranked matches vs other people.
To be honest, I don't know everything about the game. It's still early access and my research is limited. But I am really, really enjoying it. And I will say that for being early access the AI isn't completely stupid which is actually somewhat impressive.
I've been playing Eternal for maybe a couple months now and I'm extremely impressed with this game. I think some of the creators are old school MTG players (some of them pros as well) and it shows.
This is basically what mtg online should have been all along. It has most of the basic mechanics of MTG, like blocking, flying and fast spells, in a hearthstone UI. Gameplay wise it's basically an mtg clone with some HS hero weapons thrown in. The mana system is better and less punishing than in MTG, but there's still mana screw. I think that is the price to pay to have deep deckbuilding. It also has less phases than mtg so the turns don't take too long. And it's free to play, which is of course huge compared to mtg.
For all the old school card players, this has a fantastic draft mode that is just pure love. If you are good enough, between the draft win rewards and the daily quests you can go infinite on draft. The tutorial is a bit long and boring, but it's worth beating it to access such a great game :D I recommend this game A LOT.
For a great twitch streamer I enjoy watching Sir_Rinho. Watching him is a perfect way for new players to learn the game.
Oh and the game is avaliable for free on Steam, but you can also download and play it on Android/Tablet which is cool.
I like cardgames with skill. I have played heartstone and that game isnt for me, it has way to much rng for my taste. I want a cardgame that has alot of skill involved while also is ...fun to play... More tactical and strategic i suppose as well. In heartstone, you play against the meta which is just sucky at best.
Reading descrptions like this doesnt tell much at all. If you can link some videos with good inforamtion, that would tell alot more for a human like me.
looks interesting, like how it is more magic than hearthstone with blocking and 'instants'. cross platform play is also cool, going to give it a download
How does this fare in terms of complexity, card pool, balancing and p2w? Is there a realistic chance to field t1 decks after 50 hours of playtime without investing lots of money?
On January 19 2017 01:00 Archeon wrote: How does this fare in terms of complexity, card pool, balancing and p2w? Is there a realistic chance to field t1 decks after 50 hours of playtime without investing lots of money?
If you are decent at picking cards in draft I would say yes. Draft is the easier way to build your cardpool after achieving the highest rank in gauntlet (a free to play mode vs AI). At the start I personally tried to balance picking rares with actually trying to build a good deck to get wins with. But at the first few drafts you can just easily pick up a good number of bad rares from draft that get passed to you, then destroy them to build those you want for constructed. And of course you pick every legendary card you see even if it's unplayable, then destroy it for "dust value"
Regarding constructed/p2w: There's a few legendaries that are really strong, and if you face some at bronze after just starting the game you can feel cheated because they will look just unfair (Sandstorm Titan is a perfect example). But in general most people in bronze also have limited cardpools. There's also a few high tier decks that can easily work without a single legendary, like Rakano or Stonescar Burn (both aggro). Rares are the bread and butter of most decks, and those you can get fairly fast since there is one in every pack (unless you get a legendary) and their dust cost is not that high.
I personally think that building a strong deck with a limited cardpool is also more fun and challenging. And draft is just the better and more fun/challenging format in every card game imo.
Regarding the rest of the questions: Card pool is decent and hopefully grows soon with a new mini-set. Balance is pretty much perfect afaik, there is all kinds of aggro, midrange, combo and control decks. Complexity wise it's higher than HS/Shadowverse, mainly because you can play spells on your opponent's turn and you can combine colors for deckbuilding instead of being forced into a class. It's slightly less complex than MTG mainly because there's way less keywords to learn (obviously) and less phases.
Honestly the biggest draw of this compared to HS and other digital CCGs is that they've clearly put some effort in making limited play interesting. And given that it has its own ladder, they clearly see it as a "legit" format.
Constructed isn't particularly interesting at the moment (particularly on ladder where deck diversity is awful) but for pretty much anyone who enjoys drafting or limited play in general, it's a breath of fresh air compared to other CCGs where stuff like Hearthstone's arena is a complete afterthought.
Limited is what makes this game interesting and is also basically required if you want to build a card pool at all. If you don't enjoy limited play, grinding through drafts to get your 4x Sandstorm Titan for constructed is going to feel brutal. But if limited is your cup of tea, there's no F2P digital CCG (MtGO and Hex don't count as F2P in this regard) that really compares.
On January 19 2017 09:59 TheYango wrote: Honestly the biggest draw of this compared to HS and other digital CCGs is that they've clearly put some effort in making limited play interesting. And given that it has its own ladder, they clearly see it as a "legit" format.
Constructed isn't particularly interesting at the moment (particularly on ladder where deck diversity is awful) but for pretty much anyone who enjoys drafting or limited play in general, it's a breath of fresh air compared to other CCGs where stuff like Hearthstone's arena is a complete afterthought.
Limited is what makes this game interesting and is also basically required if you want to build a card pool at all. If you don't enjoy limited play, grinding through drafts to get your 4x Sandstorm Titan for constructed is going to feel brutal. But if limited is your cup of tea, there's no F2P digital CCG (MtGO and Hex don't count as F2P in this regard) that really compares.
Have to strongly agree with this. The average wait time to find a game in draft is fairly shorter than in constructed, which means a lot more people play it. That's impressive because draft costs in-game gold while constructed is free. Even the most competitive streamers play about as much draft as constructed, and people value much more getting the #1 rank in draft.
This is basically F2P Magic with a much smaller card pool. It's made by Magic pros and designers and the UI and gameplay is a million times better than Magic Online ever managed.
It's hard to get a super competitive deck together without dropping some cash, but it's possible to go nearly infinite in Draft and keep expanding your card pool, as well as a crafting system to fill holes. All-in-all great CCG.
On January 21 2017 00:51 Trozz wrote: This game is the best. Second only to broodwar. You keep cards you draft.
OMG TROZZ IS STILL ACTIVE!?!?!?! <3 <3 <3
*ahem* on topic, Eternal is great. I come from a competitive MTG background (used to write for StarCityGames.com regularly circa 2011), and I've been doing pretty much nothing but play Eternal for the last 6 months. It combines the strategic depth of Magic with the convenience of Hearthstone. What's not to love?
Idk, I'm starting to strongly dislike the mana system. Most of the games I loose I loose because the balance between my cards is way off, which feels needlessly gambly and frustrating in times when Duelyst gives you a free 1-card mulligan each turn and MMDoC has shown how to make mana comfortable and keep a decision involved. I love MtG, but that part was always wonky.
Having the mulligan restricted to one doesn't help, I'm praying every time I hit the redraw button. Even WotC has recognized that their mulligan system isn't great and buffed it, Idk why Eternal has a system that is even worse for the most part.
5k gold has so far kept me away from draft, I'll give it a shot when I get the money.
I like most of the new mechanics though.
Also wow some legendaries. Let's put a good ability on a good body and make it cheap, because reasons.
On January 23 2017 11:15 Archeon wrote: Idk, I'm starting to strongly dislike the mana system. Most of the games I loose I loose because the balance between my cards is way off, which feels needlessly gambly and frustrating in times when Duelyst gives you a free 1-card mulligan each turn and MMDoC has shown how to make mana comfortable and keep a decision involved. I love MtG, but that part was always wonky.
Having the mulligan restricted to one doesn't help, I'm praying every time I hit the redraw button. Even WotC has recognized that their mulligan system isn't great and buffed it, Idk why Eternal has a system that is even worse for the most part.
5k gold has so far kept me away from draft, I'll give it a shot when I get the money.
I like most of the new mechanics though.
Also wow some legendaries. Let's put a good ability on a good body and make it cheap, because reasons.
you don't really need to pray when you hit redraw, on a mulligan you are always given 2-5 resources
that said, the resource system isn't perfect and you will definitely have a fair share of lopsided games because of it
5 resources is pretty much gg and having only two of the same kind can be very bad as well. If they made both draws 2-4 mana and 1+ of each color people could do mulligans for cards and not mana :/
Mana system is indeed the weakest part of the game, nobody likes losing to mana screw and it's bound to happen by simple math. To lower those odds you should always slam 4 Seek Power in every deck, and pretty much every fixing sigil you have plus Diplomatic Seals. Some Favors can be really good too, specially the shadow one. I'd only consider going 3 or less seek power in the super aggro decks that have 0-2 five cost cards (and not a single 6+).
In constructed I'm pretty sure newer players cheat themselves because of not wanting to cut cards and they skip on power. In draft mana screw just happens and you learn to move on
EDIT:
Regarding the F2P aspect of the game, rngeternal has posted a thread which tries to crack the economics of both Eternal and HS to calculate which is more "free to play" (hint: It's Eternal). Some conclusions I think are interesting:
- Hearthstone is cheaper when making deck purchases with money, though the price of the average deck in both games is fairly close. - Eternal is much cheaper when trying to build decks via game wins. - Hearthstone has significant savings when buying all the decks in the metagame. This is a result of cross-deck Neutral Legends. Eternal sees fewer savings in this regard. - Eternal has a sizable bonus from playing Draft rather than just opening packs. If you maintain a 50% win rate you are able to functionally “buy packs” at 645 Gold each. The Arena bonus for Hearthstone is just under 10%, and does not offer significant savings over just cracking packs.
On January 23 2017 17:20 Salteador Neo wrote: - Eternal has a sizable bonus from playing Draft rather than just opening packs. If you maintain a 50% win rate you are able to functionally “buy packs” at 645 Gold each. The Arena bonus for Hearthstone is just under 10%, and does not offer significant savings over just cracking packs.
This isn't so easy to analyze because the games differ pretty significantly in how matchmaking works for their limited formats. Hearthstone's Arena always matches you by match record on your particular arena run, while Eternal always uses your limited MMR. Because of this, an above average Arena player can on average expect to see several players significantly worse than them near the beginning of their Arena runs while the Eternal Draft player is going to face players of similar skill the whole way through.
This does mean that game quality is better as a whole since you aren't facing players way better or worse than you near the beginning of Draft runs, but it also means an above average player can expect to go "less positive" in Eternal than in Hearthstone.
On January 23 2017 17:20 Salteador Neo wrote: - Eternal has a sizable bonus from playing Draft rather than just opening packs. If you maintain a 50% win rate you are able to functionally “buy packs” at 645 Gold each. The Arena bonus for Hearthstone is just under 10%, and does not offer significant savings over just cracking packs.
This isn't so easy to analyze because the games differ pretty significantly in how matchmaking works for their limited formats. Hearthstone's Arena always matches you by match record on your particular arena run, while Eternal always uses your limited MMR. Because of this, an above average Arena player can on average expect to see several players significantly worse than them near the beginning of their Arena runs while the Eternal Draft player is going to face players of similar skill the whole way through.
This does mean that game quality is better as a whole since you aren't facing players way better or worse than you near the beginning of Draft runs, but it also means an above average player can expect to go "less positive" in Eternal than in Hearthstone.
While I agree with you on all your points, I don't think they change the conclusion at all. Eternal draft rewards are much better than HS unless you literally never want to touch the constructed ladder. In that case, HS Arena is better because it's cheaper and thus easier to go infinite on it.
I didn't really know how Eternal's matchmaking works tbh, but if it uses your MMR then to me it's perfect. I don't want to face much worse or better players. Closer games means more fun. You want to have fun playing the game instead of building your cardpool as fast as humanly possible, because in the long run if the game is not fun you simply drop it.
You also only considered the rewards for above average players. If I understand this right. for the average player using MMR is fair and the first games in Arena are basically random. For above/under average players, using MMR is fair and Arena is unfair (either positive/negative).
Have to comment about the streamer in the previous page, SunyVeil. I have watched his stream a few times and he is an extremely solid player (better than me for sure). I watched mainly draft and was impressed. Big recommend :D
This game is great. I hope it will build and maintain a decent player base.
The draft is very well done, arena was my favorite part of HS and eternal's system brings a lot more depth to it. Too bad it's harder to get a few in a row. A casual draft mode without rewards or keeping the cards would be great.
Constructed is also very good imo, I'enjoy it a lot more than I thought I would, the mana system generates a good variety of games even when playing the same match ups. I just need to build the legendaries and get lucky with the rares from packs to fully appreciate the possibilities offered.
I really like the game, my only complaint is I'm finding clearing all the campaign missions extremely boring. It's not as fun to me if I'm not building my own deck to overcome the challenges I face.
Mechanic-wise, I really enjoy the game though. Can't wait to try Draft out.
On January 23 2017 11:15 Archeon wrote: Idk, I'm starting to strongly dislike the mana system. Most of the games I loose I loose because the balance between my cards is way off, which feels needlessly gambly and frustrating in times when Duelyst gives you a free 1-card mulligan each turn and MMDoC has shown how to make mana comfortable and keep a decision involved. I love MtG, but that part was always wonky.
Having the mulligan restricted to one doesn't help, I'm praying every time I hit the redraw button. Even WotC has recognized that their mulligan system isn't great and buffed it, Idk why Eternal has a system that is even worse for the most part.
Having played Eternal for a few months now, mulliganing in MTG feels waaaaaaay worse. If you redraw into a poor hand that sucks, but mulliganing in MTG is more likely to result in a bad hand and winning with 5 or fewer cards ranges from outrageously difficult to near impossible.
5k gold has so far kept me away from draft, I'll give it a shot when I get the money.
I like most of the new mechanics though.
Also wow some legendaries. Let's put a good ability on a good body and make it cheap, because reasons.
If you look at Tier 1 decklists, there isn't an overabundance of Legendaries. Some Legendaries have their rarity because they are efficient, but most are just cards with really splashy or unique effects. I mean, if you were designing a card game, why bother to have rarity if you aren't going to make the rarest of cards exciting?
On January 24 2017 05:12 Sunyveil wrote: why bother to have rarity if you aren't going to make the rarest of cards exciting?
To balance powerful build-arounds for limited that you basically never want to appear in multiples in a given draft?
From the constructed side, rarity only really serves as a barrier to entry for players still in the collection-building phase. Limited balance is where rarity actually does something constructive.
That said, the only Legendary I find to be overly-pervasive is Sandstorm Titan.
The titan is strong that's for sure but I would not put him above some commons/rares like oni ronin, torch, impending doom, some champions and many other cards.
I agree the rarity is mostly for developpers to get some money and the game is very newbee friendly for a F2P imo.
^I'd definitely put Titan over Oni Ronin, Ronin is good but mainly a "trade a card for warcry". Torch is a good spell, but it's comparable in power to flash freeze and finest hour. Doom and some champions have similar stats/cost, but are more situational or have drawbacks instead of a great ability. And champions are the most stats/cost cards out there.
On January 23 2017 11:15 Archeon wrote: Idk, I'm starting to strongly dislike the mana system. Most of the games I loose I loose because the balance between my cards is way off, which feels needlessly gambly and frustrating in times when Duelyst gives you a free 1-card mulligan each turn and MMDoC has shown how to make mana comfortable and keep a decision involved. I love MtG, but that part was always wonky.
Having the mulligan restricted to one doesn't help, I'm praying every time I hit the redraw button. Even WotC has recognized that their mulligan system isn't great and buffed it, Idk why Eternal has a system that is even worse for the most part.
Having played Eternal for a few months now, mulliganing in MTG feels waaaaaaay worse. If you redraw into a poor hand that sucks, but mulliganing in MTG is more likely to result in a bad hand and winning with 5 or fewer cards ranges from outrageously difficult to near impossible.
5 mana or 2 of the same kind and a hand full of other color cards on your starting hand has a similar success rate (<5%). The mana restriction somewhat lowers the variance, so that's nice, but MTG gives you another (albeit really punishing) mulligan after your first if your second hand is still terrible. I guess Eternal's mulligan system is overall slightly better, but again, MTG's is terrible to begin with and things like partial mulligans would open options to draw desirable hands instead of hoping to get 1<mana<5 in 2 colors and a creature you can play in turn 1 or 2. In some regards MTG is just not a good reference for creating fun games.
I'm not used to being unable to field a creature until turn 3 in an aggro deck anymore.
5k gold has so far kept me away from draft, I'll give it a shot when I get the money.
I like most of the new mechanics though.
Also wow some legendaries. Let's put a good ability on a good body and make it cheap, because reasons.
If you look at Tier 1 decklists, there isn't an overabundance of Legendaries. Some Legendaries have their rarity because they are efficient, but most are just cards with really splashy or unique effects. I mean, if you were designing a card game, why bother to have rarity if you aren't going to make the rarest of cards exciting?
I agree, cards like Akroma and Memnarch are imo good legendaries, tons of stats, or some "wow crazy" ability. And expensive enough to make them inefficient/unplayable. Make them cards for collectors, who fawn about how awesome it is when you ignore the costs. I agree that for the most part Eternal does a good job with that. But in between all the junk and stuff only lategame control and revival decks can afford to play, meet Sandstorm Titan and Siraf. The difference to other cards is mindblowing especially for the former.
Other card games like Duelyst and Hex are worse in that, so I'm not too unhappy about the state legendaries are in. Just had to let off steam yesterday after loosing 5 times essentially to legendaries (twice to ST, once to Sarif, twice to soulfire drake, but I was behind in the SD matches before SD got played).
It's not a great comparison to make. Crownwatch Paladin is a lynchpin in a very small number of decks (Rakano variants specifically) but not played a ton outside of them. Sandstorm Titan is less of a centerpiece in the decks its in, but it's a 4-of in virtually every Time deck.
It's not so much an issue of relative power level more than the fact that it's a significant barrier to entry for players still in the collection phase that every deck in a particular color to demand 4 copies of a specific legendary.
Printing the card at lower rarity would solve the accessibility issue, but create a new problem in that the card is insane in Limited, and at anything lower than Legendary, it would start showing up in a significant percentage of Limited games.
On January 23 2017 17:20 Salteador Neo wrote: In constructed I'm pretty sure newer players cheat themselves because of not wanting to cut cards and they skip on power. In draft mana screw just happens and you learn to move on
Thing is mana screw isn't just "I didn't draw any of my sigils and can't play my high level/cost cards" it's often "I drew nothing but sigils and am sitting at 9 mana with nothing to play".
Your point about Seek Power is a good one though and the "draw a sigil" effects the factions have are pretty good too (though they're probably better suited for pure decks over mixed).
The mana searchers are an important part of not getting flooded, which is why Neo mentioned them. Similar to fetchlands in Magic, playing a mana searcher takes a sigil out of your deck making you less likely to draw them later. This is why a lot of medium-high curve decks still play only the bare minimum of 25 sigils. They help you consistently get mana early without flooding late.
On January 24 2017 08:29 ahswtini wrote: is it possible to get a close-to meta deck with basic cards that you can slowly improve but which you play the same way throughout
you can do that with a rakano warcry deck
focus on warcry or other good creatures, low cost removal, and the best combat tricks / weapons you have available
it won't be particularly close to the t1 decks at first but it'll have the general idea
On January 24 2017 08:29 ahswtini wrote: is it possible to get a close-to meta deck with basic cards that you can slowly improve but which you play the same way throughout
you can do that with a rakano warcry deck
focus on warcry or other good creatures, low cost removal, and the best combat tricks / weapons you have available
it won't be particularly close to the t1 decks at first but it'll have the general idea
rakano = red/green, btw
yeah i've seen that deck mentioned a lot, i tried building one but just felt i was missing too many warcry cards
On January 24 2017 08:29 ahswtini wrote: is it possible to get a close-to meta deck with basic cards that you can slowly improve but which you play the same way throughout
you can do that with a rakano warcry deck
focus on warcry or other good creatures, low cost removal, and the best combat tricks / weapons you have available
it won't be particularly close to the t1 decks at first but it'll have the general idea
rakano = red/green, btw
yeah i've seen that deck mentioned a lot, i tried building one but just felt i was missing too many warcry cards
honestly what I did is put down 25 dollars and then start drafting but if I was having to do it f2p i would:
1.) do all the quests 2.) do forge until I rank up once 3.) make a deck with combat tricks to abuse AI and grind gauntlet. when you do gauntlet, lose on purpose on the last match. 4.) every time you get 5k gold do draft and take it as seriously as you can (watch videos, or look at draft tiers)
that would probably be the best way to build a card base
On January 24 2017 08:29 ahswtini wrote: is it possible to get a close-to meta deck with basic cards that you can slowly improve but which you play the same way throughout
you can do that with a rakano warcry deck
focus on warcry or other good creatures, low cost removal, and the best combat tricks / weapons you have available
it won't be particularly close to the t1 decks at first but it'll have the general idea
rakano = red/green, btw
yeah i've seen that deck mentioned a lot, i tried building one but just felt i was missing too many warcry cards
honestly what I did is put down 25 dollars and then start drafting but if I was having to do it f2p i would:
1.) do all the quests 2.) do forge until I rank up once 3.) make a deck with combat tricks to abuse AI and grind gauntlet. when you do gauntlet, lose on purpose on the last match. 4.) every time you get 5k gold do draft and take it as seriously as you can (watch videos, or look at draft tiers)
that would probably be the best way to build a card base
I heard that lose the final match on purpose several times but I've also heard that difficulty scales with total wins and not rank so your losing out on rank up chests for nothing.
On January 24 2017 08:55 travis wrote: 3.) make a deck with combat tricks to abuse AI and grind gauntlet. when you do gauntlet, lose on purpose on the last match.
Does this actually work? I read that the difficulty is based on overall wins rather than your actual gauntlet rank.
It used to work, but they changed it. There's no point in AI abusing Gauntlet, and it actually just makes getting the final rank-up chest harder for when you actually do want to get it (they have said that Gauntlet/Forge reset every new set so you want to get all the rank-up chests before they release set 2).
On January 24 2017 08:43 ahswtini wrote: yeah i've seen that deck mentioned a lot, i tried building one but just felt i was missing too many warcry cards
How long have you been playing? The game gives you a preconstructed deck in an allied color pair every week. The Rakano precon gives you a lot of the staples to start your deck with (Finest Hour, Oni Ronin, Torch, Crownwatch Paladin, Rakano Outlaw, Vanquish, etc.), and you can get more just by forcing Rakano in Forge.
Your first Forges are the best way to get staple commons/uncommons in the colors you want to start with. The Forge picks stick to the colors that you pick, so if you force Rakano, you will only get cards in those colors. The AI is piss easy for the first few forges so you can afford taking a few bad red/green cards early in the draft just to force the game to give you more.
On January 24 2017 08:29 ahswtini wrote: is it possible to get a close-to meta deck with basic cards that you can slowly improve but which you play the same way throughout
you can do that with a rakano warcry deck
focus on warcry or other good creatures, low cost removal, and the best combat tricks / weapons you have available
it won't be particularly close to the t1 decks at first but it'll have the general idea
rakano = red/green, btw
yeah i've seen that deck mentioned a lot, i tried building one but just felt i was missing too many warcry cards
honestly what I did is put down 25 dollars and then start drafting but if I was having to do it f2p i would:
1.) do all the quests 2.) do forge until I rank up once 3.) make a deck with combat tricks to abuse AI and grind gauntlet. when you do gauntlet, lose on purpose on the last match. 4.) every time you get 5k gold do draft and take it as seriously as you can (watch videos, or look at draft tiers)
that would probably be the best way to build a card base
I heard that lose the final match on purpose several times but I've also heard that difficulty scales with total wins and not rank so your losing out on rank up chests for nothing.
I could see it scaling with record (win - loss), but I don't think total wins would make sense I beat gauntlet 3 times very fast and it pretty much instantly became ridiculously hard
if it's just speculation I definitely think it gets harder when you rank up
edit: ahh, looks like you all must know what you are talking about then
well then backup suggestion would be to just play ranked and concede every game where you will probably lose right away
On January 24 2017 09:05 TheYango wrote: It used to work, but they changed it. There's no point in AI abusing Gauntlet, and it actually just makes getting the final rank-up chest harder for when you actually do want to get it (they have said that Gauntlet/Forge reset every new set so you want to get all the rank-up chests before they release set 2).
On January 24 2017 08:43 ahswtini wrote: yeah i've seen that deck mentioned a lot, i tried building one but just felt i was missing too many warcry cards
How long have you been playing? The game gives you a preconstructed deck in an allied color pair every week. The Rakano precon gives you a lot of the staples to start your deck with (Finest Hour, Oni Ronin, Torch, Crownwatch Paladin, Rakano Outlaw, Vanquish, etc.), and you can get more just by forcing Rakano in Forge.
Your first Forges are the best way to get staple commons/uncommons in the colors you want to start with. The Forge picks stick to the colors that you pick, so if you force Rakano, you will only get cards in those colors. The AI is piss easy for the first few forges so you can afford taking a few bad red/green cards early in the draft just to force the game to give you more.
hmm the allied deck i got was an elysian one. i heard ur supposed to get a new one every sunday, but i all three quest slots filled. i seem to have a few torches already, but only have two oni ronins and no crownwatch paladins. will the free rakano deck give me 4 of those?
The precon has 4 ronins, 4 torches, and 2 paladins. Again, if you force Rakano in your first few Forges, you're decently likely to see 1-2 more paladins that way.
I have been loving this game. For those struggling through the beginning, I went with a budget Queen Jito deck which can be found here: www.numotgaming.com Games are fast, win or lose. I still pull it out occasionally and still don't have any Bandit Queens.
In the end though I also agree that draft is where it's at. While I do still enjoy constructed (it tends to screw aggro due to the nature of being an online ladder system) I find myself playing it mostly to get gold for the next draft run. Constructed also does become more enjoyable as your card pool opens up and you can actually brew better with more options.
I've been playing for ~5 days and did more or less what was recommended here, started with Rakano and gathered some cards in foundry. The really difficult cards to get are the champions and fury (mix cards are harder to get), and the 2 legendaries, so I'd keep my shards for them and for Rakano Banner.
I've got to say that Rakano plays fairly boring though, it's your average aggro/burn deck. My mirrors essentially came down to who goes first and against most other decks the only question is if you can finish them before your deck falls off.
Btw isnt Rakano RW instead of RG? Sure finest hour is overgrowth, but I always thought time was green with the mana acceleration, the big trample creatures and the lack of flyers. Justice is definitely white in flavor, you play knights and angels and the color is overall fairly well-rounded. Rakano's fluff is also basically a copy of Boros and plays similarily.
It is, but the Bant colors are sufficiently screwed up in Eternal that people just refer to them by the actual color not by their MtG equivalent.
For Rakano the only cards I went out of my way to craft are the 2 Champions and a Hammer of Might. All the other cards I got for free or pulled from packs/draft. I've been fairly lucky on that front though, as I've opened 2 Soulfire Drakes and a Deepforged Plate.
The deck I've been more interested in playing is Feln/Felnscar control, but without some of the key legendaries, the aggro matchups are really rough. I would also like to play some of the Time archetypes, but that would require getting over the barrier of owning 4 Sandstorm Titans, of which I currently have zero.
On January 24 2017 10:25 Archeon wrote: I've been playing for ~5 days and did more or less what was recommended here, started with Rakano and gathered some cards in foundry. The really difficult cards to get are the champions and fury (mix cards are harder to get), and the 2 legendaries, so I'd keep my shards for them and for Rakano Banner.
I've got to say that Rakano plays fairly boring though, it's your average aggro/burn deck. My mirrors essentially came down to who goes first and against most other decks the only question is if you can finish them before your deck falls off.
Btw isnt Rakano RW instead of RG? Sure finest hour is overgrowth, but I always thought time was green with the mana acceleration, the big trample creatures and the lack of flyers. Justice is definitely white in flavor, you play knights and angels and the color is overall fairly well-rounded. Rakano's fluff is also basically a copy of Boros.
Justice = Green hence RG. I assume he was talking in Eternal colors and not their respective MtG colour equivalents.
As someone who's played quite a bit of MTG and some Spellweaver with a bit of HS here and there (stopped HS because too much RNG) would this be the kind of game I'd enjoy, or..? I haven't done much research and am free-to-play.
On January 24 2017 11:19 IntoTheheart wrote: As someone who's played quite a bit of MTG and some Spellweaver with a bit of HS here and there (stopped HS because too much RNG) would this be the kind of game I'd enjoy, or..? I haven't done much research and am free-to-play.
With no more information than that it sounds like it'd be right up your alley. It's very similar to MTG in mechanics but very polished and accessible in terms of UI. Bonus points if you own one or more android devices.
On January 24 2017 10:25 Archeon wrote: I've been playing for ~5 days and did more or less what was recommended here, started with Rakano and gathered some cards in foundry. The really difficult cards to get are the champions and fury (mix cards are harder to get), and the 2 legendaries, so I'd keep my shards for them and for Rakano Banner.
I've got to say that Rakano plays fairly boring though, it's your average aggro/burn deck. My mirrors essentially came down to who goes first and against most other decks the only question is if you can finish them before your deck falls off.
Btw isnt Rakano RW instead of RG? Sure finest hour is overgrowth, but I always thought time was green with the mana acceleration, the big trample creatures and the lack of flyers. Justice is definitely white in flavor, you play knights and angels and the color is overall fairly well-rounded. Rakano's fluff is also basically a copy of Boros.
Justice = Green hence RG. I assume he was talking in Eternal colors and not their respective MtG colour equivalents.
The colors in MTG don't directly correlate to Eternal for Green and White, when talking about the "color roles".
In Eternal, Justice (Green) has wrath of god, removal against big units, good cost 2 units and big fliers. In MTG that would be white.
Time (White-Gold) has ramp, mass unit buffs and big midrange fatties, but little interaction. In MTG that would be green.
Rakano is indeed the go-to deck for beating Gauntlet. I personally don't recommend throwing games on it tho. I cleared Gauntlet a few times then moved to draft. The time-reward ratio is not good for gauntlet unless you clear the last game (getting a rank up reward) and the last game is super luck dependant. I only went to get Master rank on gauntlet when I had the quest to clear a gauntlet boss. Your time is much better spent playing ranked/draft afaik, gauntlet is only good for the very first few days.
I also don't recommend crafting too many uncommons, you will get those pretty fast just by opening packs.
On January 24 2017 08:29 ahswtini wrote: is it possible to get a close-to meta deck with basic cards that you can slowly improve but which you play the same way throughout
you can do that with a rakano warcry deck
focus on warcry or other good creatures, low cost removal, and the best combat tricks / weapons you have available
it won't be particularly close to the t1 decks at first but it'll have the general idea
rakano = red/green, btw
yeah i've seen that deck mentioned a lot, i tried building one but just felt i was missing too many warcry cards
honestly what I did is put down 25 dollars and then start drafting but if I was having to do it f2p i would:
1.) do all the quests 2.) do forge until I rank up once 3.) make a deck with combat tricks to abuse AI and grind gauntlet. when you do gauntlet, lose on purpose on the last match. 4.) every time you get 5k gold do draft and take it as seriously as you can (watch videos, or look at draft tiers)
that would probably be the best way to build a card base
I heard that lose the final match on purpose several times but I've also heard that difficulty scales with total wins and not rank so your losing out on rank up chests for nothing.
This is also what I've heard, I'm stuck in gold league for Forge and my opponent keeps dropping legendaries on me
For the new players, some info you could consider useful:
When you get the quest to obtain the dual faction premade decks, if I remember correctly you immediately get those cards to your cardpool, so you can use them on other decks even before clearing the quest :D (no idea if this was a bug or not, but it happened to me).
You also don't need to use that exact deck to clear the quest, just a deck that has those 2 factions (can use 3 or 4 factions if you want).
A deck needs a minimum of cards of any faction to be considered "of that faction", can't cheat the system by just throwing in one single card. When a deck considers a faction only a splash, not a main, the faction symbol will be transparent, and it won't activate the quests for that faction.
Kinda struggling with words atm, but hopefully you can get what I mean here
On January 26 2017 20:47 Salteador Neo wrote: For the new players, some info you could consider useful:
When you get the quest to obtain the dual faction premade decks, if I remember correctly you immediately get those cards to your cardpool, so you can use them on other decks even before clearing the quest :D (no idea if this was a bug or not, but it happened to me).
You also don't need to use that exact deck to clear the quest, just a deck that has those 2 factions (can use 3 or 4 factions if you want).
A deck needs a minimum of cards of any faction to be considered "of that faction", can't cheat the system by just throwing in one single card. When a deck considers a faction only a splash, not a main, the faction symbol will be transparent, and it won't activate the quests for that faction.
Kinda struggling with words atm, but hopefully you can get what I mean here
Thats why it fades out...! If the power icon's faint, it's not real to quests.
This helps achievements. There are color challenges like 5 color win.
as i near my first 3200 "dust" (forgot what it's called in this game), is it too early to think about which legendary i want to craft? shimmerpack got nerfed, so does that make sandstorm the current must have?
I think there are better legendaries to have as one or two of, but it sure is not a lost craft if you have any interest in playing a time deck. I started by the full set of titan myself but I took my decision after reaching master in gauntlet and forge, which is the F2P boost they give you when you start. Afterwards you don't get the free stuff as fast so I was glad I waited a bit before crafting and took my decision based on the rares and legendaries I got in the process and which deck I wanted to play.
On January 27 2017 23:39 nojok wrote: I think there are better legendaries to have as one or two of, but it sure is not a lost craft if you have any interest in playing a time deck. I started by the full set of titan myself but I took my decision after reaching master in gauntlet and forge, which is the F2P boost they give you when you start. Afterwards you don't get the free stuff as fast so I was glad I waited a bit before crafting and took my decision based on the rares and legendaries I got in the process and which deck I wanted to play.
hmm fair enough, i guess i'll keep grinding away at gauntlet and forge. i dont have an idea of what deck i want to build yet
On January 27 2017 23:39 nojok wrote: I think there are better legendaries to have as one or two of, but it sure is not a lost craft if you have any interest in playing a time deck. I started by the full set of titan myself but I took my decision after reaching master in gauntlet and forge, which is the F2P boost they give you when you start. Afterwards you don't get the free stuff as fast so I was glad I waited a bit before crafting and took my decision based on the rares and legendaries I got in the process and which deck I wanted to play.
hmm fair enough, i guess i'll keep grinding away at gauntlet and forge. i dont have an idea of what deck i want to build yet
when forge opponents stop being super easy, it's in your best interest to switch to draft exclusively with your gold. like, it's way better value
only do forge while you can consistently crush it, which shouldn't be that long
same deal with gauntlet. once it stops being super easy to crush, you may as well just play ranked
I've been playing a TJP that actually has been performing pretty well. And it's non-meta which is what I am always aiming for if I can help it, lol
4 copper conduit 4 dark return 4 permafrost 4 seek power 2 unstable form (extremely underrated card but could be replaced with levitate if you want that) 4 haunting scream 4 amber acolyte 4 direwood beastcaller 4 annihilate 4 gorgon fanatics 2 ancient lore 4 praxis displacer 1 umbren reaper
resources:
2 primal, 2 shadow, 4 time 4 diplomatic scroll 4 elysian banner 2 seat of cunning 4 seat of mystery 4 seat of wisdom 4 xenan banner
deck synergies:
copper conduit / dark return = 2nd cast on copper conduit, giving it's summon ability twice resulting in a huge creature haunting scream + infiltrate creatures = typical haunting scream deck synergies. both of our infiltrate creatures are nuts
permafrost/praxis --> slows down faster decks and helps our infiltrates get through
unstable form --> if one of our creatures becomes useless on board (im looking at you acolte), then we can turn it into a stronger creature. twice if we want. furthermore, if they play something devastating we can actually transform their creature(which is rarely great but can still save you).
deck has so much fetch that it thins lands pretty well, so you shouldn't get flooded nor should you get screwed
30 resources and 8 searchers is way too many. Your deck curves out at 4 and most of your action is at 1-3. Honestly I'd peg your curve at being around 25 resources and 4-6 searchers. Honestly even most of the slower decks rarely go over 25 resources and just fill in with searchers. No reason to go up to 30, really.
Execute doesn't really make sense in Haunting Scream. It doesn't kill blockers because it only hits exhausted creatures, and the fact that it's sorcery-speed makes it really clunky to play in general. Some combination of Suffocate/Annihilate/Deathstrike does more of what you want. Your removal spell count is fairly low in general--you really want closer to like 12-16 removal spells with this kind of deck.
i meant annihilate not execute, i get confused between the 2
so you think i should drop 4 resources and put in 4 control cards? which do you think would be better? the one that turns them into pigs and then kills them, or deathstrike?
Deathstrike being instant-speed usually matters more than Feeding Time shutting off Entomb/reanimator stuff, but it kinda depends what decks you're against.
This game is loads of fun for sure. I know a little late to the party but it feels exactly like hearthstone, except that it's not so creature vs. creature driven (if that makes sense), which is fantastic. I love the mtg aspects like declaring attackers and defenders and of course having instants available. These two aspects allow for more depth that hearthstone lacks.
The mana system though...is awful. I hate it. Hearthstone had the right idea on this one. Just my opinion, I know there are defenses for it, but it doesn't change the fact that it feels awful when it happens (which is frequent). It's annoying when the same exact deck can have several games of mana flood, but then also have several games of not having enough mana and/or the wrong color. Mulligans don't really fix the problem, either. My experience is just using a ragnarok net deck so I feel like it should be more consistent.
I started playing this game last sunday (thanks to this thread and i think ahswtini mentioning it somewhere else on the forum - thanks fam ) and I'm enjoying it a lot, much, much more than Hearthstone. I already have a nice budget Time deck I use to smash through gauntlet and am collecting cards at a nice pace Can't wait to fill my collection and start trying out some cool combo decks
On February 01 2017 03:32 Bairemuth wrote: This game is loads of fun for sure. I know a little late to the party but it feels exactly like hearthstone, except that it's not so creature vs. creature driven (if that makes sense), which is fantastic. I love the mtg aspects like declaring attackers and defenders and of course having instants available. These two aspects allow for more depth that hearthstone lacks.
The mana system though...is awful. I hate it. Hearthstone had the right idea on this one. Just my opinion, I know there are defenses for it, but it doesn't change the fact that it feels awful when it happens (which is frequent). It's annoying when the same exact deck can have several games of mana flood, but then also have several games of not having enough mana and/or the wrong color. Mulligans don't really fix the problem, either. My experience is just using a ragnarok net deck so I feel like it should be more consistent.
Did not have time to try this game yet, but I liked the system Spellweaver used: every turn you can either draw 1 card or replace 1 card to search for a mana card in your deck (or the top 3 cards of your deck maybe, I forget exactly).
having one of those days where you can't do anything but lose over and over. they just have the answer over and over or the perfect cards. even if they make absolutely no sense and have no business being in their deck.
it's so remarkably similar to when i played poker for a living, it really hurts my feels
On February 01 2017 03:32 Bairemuth wrote: This game is loads of fun for sure. I know a little late to the party but it feels exactly like hearthstone, except that it's not so creature vs. creature driven (if that makes sense), which is fantastic. I love the mtg aspects like declaring attackers and defenders and of course having instants available. These two aspects allow for more depth that hearthstone lacks.
The mana system though...is awful. I hate it. Hearthstone had the right idea on this one. Just my opinion, I know there are defenses for it, but it doesn't change the fact that it feels awful when it happens (which is frequent). It's annoying when the same exact deck can have several games of mana flood, but then also have several games of not having enough mana and/or the wrong color. Mulligans don't really fix the problem, either. My experience is just using a ragnarok net deck so I feel like it should be more consistent.
Did not have time to try this game yet, but I liked the system Spellweaver used: every turn you can either draw 1 card or replace 1 card to search for a mana card in your deck (or the top 3 cards of your deck maybe, I forget exactly).
Thought it was quite a good mechanic.
Sounds a bit like MMDoC, where you could either increase your mana by 1 of your choice or pay 1 to draw a card per turn.
Considering it's very easy to automate, I don't really see the reason for mana cards in the first place since you need a lot of them, always bearing the risk that you have way too much or too little.
On February 04 2017 05:12 travis wrote: having one of those days where you can't do anything but lose over and over. they just have the answer over and over or the perfect cards. even if they make absolutely no sense and have no business being in their deck.
it's so remarkably similar to when i played poker for a living, it really hurts my feels
Yeah getting Yu-Gi-Ohed is so much fun. You can tell that they are either bad or poor just by the fact that they play this one, extremely situational card and that makes loosing all the more infuriating.
I swear I'll stop playing Rakano once I have enough cards to play anything else. Yeah a 12/12 paladin is great, but how does that help when I'm slowly loosing field for 4 rounds and one round away from death when I finally get one. Warcry would be really nice if I actually managed to draw creatures once in a while.
On February 01 2017 03:32 Bairemuth wrote:The mana system though...is awful. I hate it. Hearthstone had the right idea on this one. Just my opinion, I know there are defenses for it, but it doesn't change the fact that it feels awful when it happens (which is frequent). It's annoying when the same exact deck can have several games of mana flood, but then also have several games of not having enough mana and/or the wrong color. Mulligans don't really fix the problem, either. My experience is just using a ragnarok net deck so I feel like it should be more consistent.
While it's really soul crushing to draw nothing but power sigils late game, or not getting them when you need them, this mana system enables many interesting card interactions and creativity in deck building.
What i really like about this game, is the MTG-ish style of creature combat (where you only attack other player, you can't attack other creatures), which makes this game much less of a creature grind fest, something that's almost a standard in most ccgs out there today.
Game is also very generous for f2p player and process of collecting cards is really fun too, due to the fact you get to keep all the cards you have picked, either in Draft or Forge mode.
If i would have one complaint, it would be the art. Its far from deal breaker for me (unlike Shadowverse ), but some of it is really low quality and kinda blurry.
On February 01 2017 03:32 Bairemuth wrote:The mana system though...is awful. I hate it. Hearthstone had the right idea on this one. Just my opinion, I know there are defenses for it, but it doesn't change the fact that it feels awful when it happens (which is frequent). It's annoying when the same exact deck can have several games of mana flood, but then also have several games of not having enough mana and/or the wrong color. Mulligans don't really fix the problem, either. My experience is just using a ragnarok net deck so I feel like it should be more consistent.
While it's really soul crushing to draw nothing but power sigils late game, or not getting them when you need them, this mana system enables many interesting card interactions and creativity in deck building.
What i really like about this game, is the MTG-ish style of creature combat (where you only attack other player, you can't attack other creatures), which makes this game much less of a creature grind fest, something that's almost a standard in most ccgs out there today.
Game is also very generous for f2p player and process of collecting cards is really fun too, due to the fact you get to keep all the cards you have picked, either in Draft or Forge mode.
If i would have one complaint, it would be the art. Its far from deal breaker for me (unlike Shadowverse ), but some of it is really low quality and kinda blurry.
I actually like most of the art, the overall color schemes and card shape desing are top tier imo. Crownwatch paladin is so cute I made her my avatar picture x] Besides, even heavy-hitters like Hearthstone have had some really shitty card art here and there, it's amazing what Dire Wolf managed to crank out with their (I imagine) limited budget.
On February 04 2017 05:12 travis wrote: having one of those days where you can't do anything but lose over and over. they just have the answer over and over or the perfect cards. even if they make absolutely no sense and have no business being in their deck.
it's so remarkably similar to when i played poker for a living, it really hurts my feels
You should really try Elder Scrolls: Legends. Very balanced, very consistent and it's hard enough (or players good enough) that even with 20+ years of experience in card gaming I sometimes struggle.
Also a game by Dire Wolf btw, in the final stages of open beta.
On February 01 2017 03:32 Bairemuth wrote: This game is loads of fun for sure. I know a little late to the party but it feels exactly like hearthstone, except that it's not so creature vs. creature driven (if that makes sense), which is fantastic. I love the mtg aspects like declaring attackers and defenders and of course having instants available. These two aspects allow for more depth that hearthstone lacks.
The mana system though...is awful. I hate it. Hearthstone had the right idea on this one. Just my opinion, I know there are defenses for it, but it doesn't change the fact that it feels awful when it happens (which is frequent). It's annoying when the same exact deck can have several games of mana flood, but then also have several games of not having enough mana and/or the wrong color. Mulligans don't really fix the problem, either. My experience is just using a ragnarok net deck so I feel like it should be more consistent.
Did not have time to try this game yet, but I liked the system Spellweaver used: every turn you can either draw 1 card or replace 1 card to search for a mana card in your deck (or the top 3 cards of your deck maybe, I forget exactly).
Thought it was quite a good mechanic.
Agree with this sentiment and the one before it.
I loved playing Magic: The Gathering growing up. I loved Hearthstone when it first came out.
However, I did not like the bullshit mana system in MtG. Needs in some way to leverage it. Losing because you're mana fucked or mana drowned is way more frustrating than losing to Hearthstone RNG.
Getting destroyed in ranked by decks with tons of legendaries is annoying. (Like decks with multiples of that warcry 5, aegis chick, with charge, flying, and endurance.)
Finally made it all the way through a full draft though for the 3 diamond chests. The game should give you more fanfare for such a milestone!
edit: You can definitely get mana screwed in this game, but I don't think it's that bad. Probably more common in draft where you might only draw one type of mana which can be a rough time. For competitive play (if such a thing existed) I'd imagine matches should at least be best of fives.
I am looking forward to the new set of cards coming out this week. I have seen several of the cards spoiled, seem pretty cool.
I finally grinded my way to masters. I rotated between a version of Burn Queen and Big Combrei. Took a 5 game win streak at the end to finally get there. Now I am working on draft, which seems much more difficult. I keep stalling out in gold with most decks only getting me to 3 or 4 wins. Loads of fun though.
Hope this game keeps getting more support and more tournaments.
Suck that I have to sit on my gold and can't draft for a while because of this adventure thing. I also wish they'd announce set 2 so I can finally decide how to spend my shiftstone
Sets as a concept are most relevant to limited. All of the cards they've added in waves don't enter the draft card pool because they can't be opened in packs.
"Set 2" is going to be relevant for how it changes draft, since it will introduce new cards and archetypes.
Not a huge fan of this adventure thing they came up with, because new players will inevitably see it as a paywall, even tho 20k gold is not hard to farm for me in this game. I know I hated it in HS, for example.
I have one Siraf and one Statuary Maiden so far for the top tier legendaries. I have a few other, but nothing to write home about. Also I haven't opened a legendary for like 20 packs o so, feels bad. I opened and crafted a whole bunch of good rares, so at least there's that.
Damn this game is good. Started 2 weeks ago cause someone mentioned it in all the shitstorm the hearthstone price increase created. And gotta say its the best thing hearthstone did for me in years.
Bought 4k gems which i invested in drafts and already have 4-5 more or less complete top tier decks. Drafting is huge fun and super rewarding. If they somehow fix the manaflood/screw which sadly decides 20%+ of the matches and maybe make lategame topdeck wars more exciting it would be almost perfect.
Also is there any eta on the next set? And how reckless are you with disenchanting crappy legendaries?
Manascrew/flood is probably not gonna change much, the best thing they can do about it is add more cards that help mitigate flood via Ultimates. I would say 10% of the matches being decided on it is more accurate at higher level of play, but I've never done the math ofc. If you draft 3 colors and no fixing you are just asking for trouble
No ETA on set 2 being released yet. Devs said they are working on set 5 atm because they want to be that ahead. My speculation is that once they release set two they are going to keep releasing sets at some steady rate, like every 3 months or so.
Disenchanting is always personal preference but I don't love being reckless about it. IIRC I only disenchanted Light the Fuse because I'm quite positive I'm never using it. If you want to ask about certain cards feel free to ask There's also at least one "legendary disenchant tier list" around but I think there's only a few 100% crap legends.
Ok just had a very bad draft. Decent deck but only 1 win cause the others had amazing curves/draws. Next draft i get this : + Show Spoiler +
How fucking awesome is that? And what are the odds.. also the quality of the cards. Best draft !
Really they go over a year in advance? Hope the sets arent set in stone before so they can adjust to the meta.also will orher sets will be the same size as the basic one we have now?
Im mostly keeping evrythig right now. Ill dust my premium rares one i have full playsets of normal ones but thats it i think. Not in a hurry to get that big combrei deck and i already have almost all rare full sets.
Year in advance is because design and development is a continuous pipeline so you have to have multiple sets at different stages of of design/development. Set 5 being in design doesn't mean that Sets 2-4 are done. Set 2 is probably toward the end of development, set 3 in early development, and set 4 in late design.
I've been playing all kinds of decks, some more janky and some less. I don't think I ever managed to go over Gold tho, mainly because I don't have that much time to play. I usually get gold/gold for constructed and draft. Off the top of my head these are some of my decks:
Xenan Killers, Elysian Midrange, Stonescar Midrange/BigBurn, Armory, Funstable Feln Control, Haunting Dreams, Rakano Aggro, Stonescar Kalis, Aggro Combrei, 5 Color Nicto, Big Combrei (still missing a few legendaries but it works), Stonescar Jitto (didn't touch it after the nerf).
Now I want to try some new brew with either Kalis + Scouting Party or the Feln Infiltrate gang + Spymaster + Wump + Party. In general, you can throw 4 Xenan Obelisk and/or 4 Scouting Party into any pile and it becomes somewhat viable heh
How does this game compare to Hex/MTG in terms of costs/depth?
I'm trying to pick up another card game. I use to play MTG a lot but it became quite expensive to keep up with standard. HS used to be fun but I really miss instant-speed spells. I found it pretty boring after all the combo decks I like got nerfed (patron, miracle rogue with leeroy burst, etc.)
I also played Shadowverse for a while, but that did not scratch the itch due to the lack of player interaction on the opponent's turn.
On March 31 2017 06:36 Glacierz wrote: How does this game compare to Hex/MTG in terms of costs/depth?
I'm trying to pick up another card game. I use to play MTG a lot but it became quite expensive to keep up with standard. HS used to be fun but I really miss instant-speed spells. I found it pretty boring after all the combo decks I like got nerfed (patron, miracle rogue with leeroy burst, etc.)
I also played Shadowverse for a while, but that did not scratch the itch due to the lack of player interaction on the opponent's turn.
Its F2P is one of the best. 2 drafts, 1 against AI and 1 against players and in both you get to keep the cards you craft in addition to gold/packs you get from wins. Really helps build a collection.
Depth is pretty ok, I feel like there is enough variety and its not always the same deck at the top every week. But the game is still in beta and only has 1 set released so it is somewhat limited in that regard. Eternal doesn't really have combo decks (there is one). There are a few synergy based top decks and rest is just value plays.
The biggest issue some people have is that, like in MTG, you need mana cards (sigils) so mana screw is a thing. The mulligan system is much better then MTG tho. Opening hand cannot have 0 or all mana(since todays patch) and you get 1 redraw that is always 2/3/4 mana + other cards up to 7.
I see, so it's a controlled RNG for opening hand. I think MTG would have been so much better if there weren't physical cards that limit designs like these.
Hex was not really meant to be F2P. It's business model is more like MtGO with the F2P options made as an afterthought. The beginner card pool is pretty bad, and collection-building is a huge chore compared to Eternal.
If you're willing to drop some cash, the game benefits from having been around longer than Eternal, so it has a deeper card pool and more complex mechanics, but starting fresh without spending any money is much less engaging.
On April 01 2017 02:15 Glacierz wrote: Finished the campaign last night, feels like HS interface with MTG's mechanics, which is pretty awesome. Couple of questions:
What is Forge vs Draft reward difference? I'm guessing if you can maintain a 50%+ winrate with draft it's always better to do draft?
Is this tier list accurate? How long does it typically take to build a top tier ladder deck?
Draft has better rewards for wins than Forge but it's harder. Forge is only really good at the start because of the level up rewards, when you hit master there's little incentive to play it compared to draft unless you wanna have a chill game (no timer).
First you want to get masters in gauntlet and then forge. Then always draft imo. Even if you go 1-3 or 2-3 draft is probably better because you can pick rares or even legendaries that other players will pass to you. And you learn how to play better ofc.
You don't want to rush to craft cards for a competitive ladder deck unless you really know what deck you want. Just build whatever you can (rakano aggro or some echo elysian, whatever) and do gauntlet. When you have more experience against decks you can choose where you want to craft into.
That tier list is quite accurate except for the jito list. Star card got nerfed and it's close to unplayable now. You can play similar extremely aggro stuff in those colors just fine without it tho.
Forge until you reach Master or until you have trouble going 7-x. The first 5 times you go 7-x in Gauntlet/Forge you get an additional "rank-up" chest with bonus rewards that exceed the normal chest rewards.
Current top tier decks are rather on the expensive side. Big Combrei in particular has a pretty large amount of legendaries. Other common ladder decks like Shimmer, Elysian Midrange, or Armory still run in the range of 4-8 Legendaries.
Best deck for starting out is still Rakano--many of the key cards are available from the free precons and forcing it once or twice in Forge gets you a lot of the commons/uncommons.
Thanks for the replies! Will I need to make a deck for gauntlet or are the pre-made ones you get from campaign good enough? I don't think I have cards to make anything beyond them anyway.
On April 01 2017 02:53 Glacierz wrote: Thanks for the replies! Will I need to make a deck for gauntlet or are the pre-made ones you get from campaign good enough? I don't think I have cards to make anything beyond them anyway.
Run Forge a few times first. Your Forge picks are seeded toward the colors you take in your first few picks, so if you force the same color pair a few times, you should have a lot of staple commons for those colors that will make Gauntlet much easier.
On April 01 2017 02:53 Glacierz wrote: Thanks for the replies! Will I need to make a deck for gauntlet or are the pre-made ones you get from campaign good enough? I don't think I have cards to make anything beyond them anyway.
Run Forge a few times first. Your Forge picks are seeded toward the colors you take in your first few picks, so if you force the same color pair a few times, you should have a lot of staple commons for those colors that will make Gauntlet much easier.
Will do. Are the cards from the second campaign worth getting? I'm debating on whether I should buy it.
Some of them are useful for specific decks, but it's not really worth 20k gold until you have the other cards for those decks and enough of a gold buffer to sustain drafting. Basically the only reason you'd really want the Jekk's cards is if you want Quarry for your Stonescar variants or if you want to play a Nicto deck.
EDIT: Also, if you don't mind tanking your ranked MMR a bit, the ranked season ends tonight so if you play enough games to get rated, you'll earn a free pack when they give out rewards.
On April 03 2017 08:49 Amarok wrote: Can anyone recommend a site for looking at viable decks of various cost/quality?
I use RNGETERNAL.com and I think it's solid. It has a tier list for constructed decks which is updated every month. Also has a tier list for draft picks which is useful when starting. It is missing Elysian Midrange and Stonescar Kalis tho, which is kinda weird.
Kalis is a very viable deck for constructed play (tier 1 or 2) and it has no legendaries, so it's budget friendly. You can check one list at eternalnexus.com.
The Kalis weapon itself is quite easy to pick up in draft since it's a build-around constructed card and dual color, I picked like 2 in my first 3 drafts, alongside 3 Scouting Party (which was crazy useful and unexpected).
Eternalnexus also has more easily viewable top 8s/top 16s for the ETS Weeklies and other tournaments. Rngeternal saves all the decklists as a Google Doc that's freely viewable, but it's kind of a mess to sort through.
On April 01 2017 03:34 TheYango wrote: Some of them are useful for specific decks, but it's not really worth 20k gold until you have the other cards for those decks and enough of a gold buffer to sustain drafting. Basically the only reason you'd really want the Jekk's cards is if you want Quarry for your Stonescar variants or if you want to play a Nicto deck.
I really agree with you regarding the Jekk's expansion. For newer players it's not really worth it, better spend the gold in forge/draft and only buy it when you already have a solid card pool with plenty of staple rares.
Quarry makes it worth buying since it is a good card for any stonescar/armory deck, but then again it's not a must have and the whole thing is too pricy for new f2p players.
I personally bought it when I got to about 30k gold, since at that point I still had enough of a buffer to continue drafting, so I wasn't exactly losing any value on gold I was sitting on anyway.
It's worth noting that Jekk's has a better crystal-to-gold cost ratio than packs, draft, or forge though, so if you are going to spend money, it's technically better to spend it on Jekk's than on any of the other 3.
On gauntlet: There's a boss that starts each player with 5 of each sigil. I have never been able to beat it... Is there a deck that is favored against all/most of these global rule bosses in gauntlet?
There's also a normal deck that rely on gaining a lot of armor and play big weapons. If I get a slow start, there's no way of coming back as you can no longer get minions to stick. I feel like any slow control deck would lose to this one.
On draft: Is the optimal number of sigils for a 45 card deck around 18? On my first draft, I chose shadow with a ton of premium removal spells and very poor minions, and it ended up doing horribly.
You don't beat the influence boss, he's the harder one I think.
The slow armory, I don't know, it seems like one of the easier ones to me, he's jsut so slow.
Around 18 is right. It is draft dependant, I just had a draft today with 15 sigils and one seek in it and the one before was 19 powers + 2 amber acolytes, you have to use your own judgement and don't hesitate to change between games.
The gauntlet boss that starts with 5 of each sigil is straight-up bullshit and is by far the hardest one to beat. The other ones are manageable depending on your deck choice and their draws, but that boss just plays full-power champions on-curve and it's just insane.
There's also a normal deck that rely on gaining a lot of armor and play big weapons. If I get a slow start, there's no way of coming back as you can no longer get minions to stick. I feel like any slow control deck would lose to this one.
It's basically a shitty version of a constructed deck archetype (look up "Traditional Armory"). Slower decks do struggle against Armory, but the gauntlet version plays a lot of do-nothings and has no board clears so it's pretty easy to beat as long as you don't get too behind.
On draft: Is the optimal number of sigils for a 45 card deck around 18? On my first draft, I chose shadow with a ton of premium removal spells and very poor minions, and it ended up doing horribly.
18 power is the best default number, keeping in mind that Seek Powers count too. I frequently vary between 17 and 19 depending on my curve and other power sources (e.g. Amber Acolytes) but 18 is a good number to shoot for when you're starting out.
EDIT: If you don't mind posting your draft, we could probably give some advice. If you don't have the deck saved you can Import it by going to My Cards > Import Deck > Last Draft.
Thanks, I will look it up when I get home today. I went by a tier list and ended up with too many removals. I think the problem was it also had small minions and no late game dmg. The deck just fizzles out after surviving the early game.
I was never a good drafter in MTG, and was kind of spoiled by the simplicity of HS arena.
Actually, how does draft work in this game? It appears to be just a simulation, where you are not actually sharing the card pool with other players like in MTG. Do the packs come back to you after a few picks or is it completely random?
Lol everyone complaining about the influence boss... I hadn't seen him until recently when I got a quest to beat a gauntlet. One shot him and he didn't even do anything aside from kill a couple of my dudes. What's he supposed to do?
@glacierz sounds like you also forced mono color which is also a mistake a lot of the time, but yes us being able to evaluate your drafts would be helpful. Now if only we could do it for Alaric......
Drafting in eternal works by being passed packs from the past. So some dude a month ago drafted the packs getting passed to you. I believe packs 1/3 are the same guy and 2/4 are the same guy, but I could be wrong on that.
On April 04 2017 03:34 WaveofShadow wrote: One shot him and he didn't even do anything aside from kill a couple of my dudes. What's he supposed to do?
His deck is basically 5-color Champions and starting with 5 of each Influence means both sides of every champion are automatically active (except Progress, but he'll probably get 1 Time/1 Justice before turn 6 if you're not dead yet). If he gets a curve-out draw it's just completely ridiculous.
As with any game, it's possible for him to get screwed and to win anyway, but he's the most consistently hard to beat.
Though my biggest blowout in Gauntlet was the boss with "all units have random abilities" rolling Destiny on a Twinbrood Sauropod turn 1, meaning he started the game with 2 5/4s in play.
On April 04 2017 03:34 WaveofShadow wrote: One shot him and he didn't even do anything aside from kill a couple of my dudes. What's he supposed to do?
His deck is basically 5-color Champions and starting with 5 of each Influence means both sides of every champion are automatically active (except Progress, but he'll probably get 1 Time/1 Justice before turn 6 if you're not dead yet). If he gets a curve-out draw it's just completely ridiculous.
As with any game, it's possible for him to get screwed and to win anyway, but he's the most consistently hard to beat.
Though my biggest blowout in Gauntlet was the boss with "all units have random abilities" rolling Destiny on a Twinbrood Sauropod turn 1, meaning he started the game with 2 5/4s in play.
That's the one i have the most trouble with. His board starts with like 5 guys on it and I die turn 2
Also plz yangers don't you know the AI cheats in eternal? Their draws are always rigged! /s
On April 04 2017 03:34 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol everyone complaining about the influence boss... I hadn't seen him until recently when I got a quest to beat a gauntlet. One shot him and he didn't even do anything aside from kill a couple of my dudes. What's he supposed to do?
@glacierz sounds like you also forced mono color which is also a mistake a lot of the time, but yes us being able to evaluate your drafts would be helpful. Now if only we could do it for Alaric......
Drafting in eternal works by being passed packs from the past. So some dude a month ago drafted the packs getting passed to you. I believe packs 1/3 are the same guy and 2/4 are the same guy, but I could be wrong on that.
Also yangers I saw you post in r/lrcast recently
Man I wish I could draft stuff all day errrr day
If I understand your description correctly, the first pack is a randomly generated pack where you pick first, the second pack gets passed to you from a random point in time in the past after someone has picked the first card, then the third pack is a pack where 2 cards have been picked?
By this logic, there's no way for the same pack to come back to you as your picks will surely mess up the pick sequence which is already determined in the past.
Also there's the obvious question on how did the first ever draft start if it is seeded by previous drafts...
The first drafts were seeded by semi-random AI picks. Once enough pack streams were in circulation, the AI packs were unnecessary, though I expect they will be used at the start of every new draft format.
Yes, that's correct. Nothing "wheels" in Eternal, and sending signals to the people you pass to is meaningless since they don't pass back to you at any point.
I'm under the impression that people are pretty flaky/switch colours often too, as I've had pretty open colours by the end of pack 1 that suddenly get reversed in pack 3, cut to hell and back with a cut colour suddenly becoming plentiful. It's pretty frustrating but I guess without things wheeling and no way to send signals (so you have to find an open colour for pack 2/4 rather than rely on what you cut pack 1/3), it's bound to happen. (Current draft is exactly what I usually complain about, with people passing me Impending Doom and Steelbound Dragon early packs 1 and 2 respectively. P1P1 was already Impending Doom... )
On April 04 2017 03:34 WaveofShadow wrote: One shot him and he didn't even do anything aside from kill a couple of my dudes. What's he supposed to do?
His deck is basically 5-color Champions and starting with 5 of each Influence means both sides of every champion are automatically active (except Progress, but he'll probably get 1 Time/1 Justice before turn 6 if you're not dead yet). If he gets a curve-out draw it's just completely ridiculous.
As with any game, it's possible for him to get screwed and to win anyway, but he's the most consistently hard to beat.
Though my biggest blowout in Gauntlet was the boss with "all units have random abilities" rolling Destiny on a Twinbrood Sauropod turn 1, meaning he started the game with 2 5/4s in play.
That's the one i have the most trouble with. His board starts with like 5 guys on it and I die turn 2
Also plz yangers don't you know the AI cheats in eternal? Their draws are always rigged! /s
Wave pls, that wouldn't work if I weren't reading this thread. That boss is pretty bullshit and I've only beaten it with Rakkano when I get a decent start (eg. units and torches to remove the first few champions) or it stays stuck on 2 power. Also lost pretty consistently to the "everything has charge" one because it was on the play almost everytime, making it win a race so you become super dependant on removal like torches if it plays quickdraw units.
You can get by with no late game and a fuckton of removal in draft, my last 7-x was basically 4x Skysnapper, 2-3x Cobalt Acolyte, 3x Jarral's Frostkin, 4x Torch and 2-3x Lightning Strikes. I ended up cutting a torch and strike, assuming they wouldn't be as good as some beef for later turns where my opponents would play bigger butts... Except the games never went that far unless I got screwed (which happened 3 times). I'd just play 2-3 Skysnappers or other flyers, burn/stun everything my opponents play and put a 4-turns clock on them. The correct build would probably have been 0-1 Lightning Strike and all Torches. Another deck that went 6-3 and did something similar had 3x Xenan Destroyer, 3+ Rapid Shot, Blackguard Sidearm, and 2-3x Dark Return. I'd be in position to win a race with the lifesteal, kill most blockers no matter the size with Rapid Shot, and if they got killed somehow Dark Return meant another go.
You need that critical mass of efficient beaters, and your removal to be cheap so you can kill something and still play another creature, for these decks to work though.
People pass strong fire cards because fire is the weakest color in draft. Seeing Steelbound Dragons passed to you isn't a signal that fire will necessarily be open by pack 3, it's a sign that the person passing you doesn't want to be in fire.
My problem in draft right now is that I don't think I'm ending up in Elysian as often as I'm supposed to (it's widely regarded as the best color pair atm). Combrei and Feln are my most-drafted color pairs, but I rarely feel Elysian is actually open. This probably means I'm either undervaluing some of the mid-tier Elysian playables, or I'm too conservative about taking multicolor Elysian cards over equally good cards in non-Elysian colors (when it might be correct to lean toward playing Elysian slightly more often).
Super proud of my last draft just now. 7-1 rakano splashing obelisk Played around tricks like a boss, beat two top 100 drafters, beat a deck running double obelisk.
I am a god, all who wish eternal drafting advice look no further
:D
Edit: reward pack contains deep forged plate. My constructed rakano deck that got me to masters is budget no longer
On April 04 2017 06:00 TheYango wrote: People pass strong fire cards because fire is the weakest color in draft. Seeing Steelbound Dragons passed to you isn't a signal that fire will necessarily be open by pack 3, it's a sign that the person passing you doesn't want to be in fire.
My problem in draft right now is that I don't think I'm ending up in Elysian as often as I'm supposed to (it's widely regarded as the best color pair atm). Combrei and Feln are my most-drafted color pairs, but I rarely feel Elysian is actually open. This probably means I'm either undervaluing some of the mid-tier Elysian playables, or I'm too conservative about taking multicolor Elysian cards over equally good cards in non-Elysian colors (when it might be correct to lean toward playing Elysian slightly more often).
Na, Wave, you're small fry. Can't compete with the game itself. Said strong draft is now over, twice 1-power hand mulled into a 2-power one and end at 3 power while drawing 4+ cost cards the last 3 turns. Third game has opponent on the ropes despite curving out but from his empty hand he topdecks, in order, that ambush mosquito to remove impeding doom, then cobalt acolyte to make his Shepherd fly and try to race me, then flash freeze for my would-be-lethal attack next turn, then a unit so I'm one attacker short of killing him.
Try as you might, you've got a long way to go.
Also last time I looked at streams several players seemed to force Elysian so I guess at your MMR it makes sense Yango.
... Yeah I get stuck, having to mulligan a 1-power hand into a 2x banner hand, getting stuck on power, and then when my opponent's done emptying his hand, his first topdeck is... explorer emeritus. That's what one'd call merit indeed.
I personally hate being pigeonholed and will draft fire as often as I damn well please. I like to think there's something to the fact that rakano is well within my comfort zone and I perform well with it, though I imagine many high level players' personal statistics are similar to this one.
On April 04 2017 06:17 WaveofShadow wrote: Or a lot of drafters are forcing it.
I'm accounting for that, but I still play Elysian way less than I feel I should.
On April 04 2017 07:00 WaveofShadow wrote: I personally hate being pigeonholed and will draft fire as often as I damn well please. I like to think there's something to the fact that rakano is well within my comfort zone and I perform well with it, though I imagine many high level players' personal statistics are similar to this one.
It feels like the green in BFZ issue all over again. Fire is clearly the worst color, the question is whether it's bad enough that it's correct to never draft fire or is it still correct to draft it when it's open.
Frankly justice looks weaker than fire to me. There's plenty of underwhelming cards, its bombs aren't that numerous and because of the stat spread it's sometimes hard to apply pressure early. I'm happy to get a Magma Javelin and use it as a removal spell that'll cost me a couple life, but a Mithril Hammer is the kind of card you could pick 3-4 times in a whole draft when justice's open and you actively don't want it. For every draft with 4th Tree Elder or Elder's Feather, you get drafts where Copperhall Recruit is required to fill your unit quota.
I thought at first I had trouble drafting Rakkano because fire was a bit flaky and it was hard to "get there" in terms of curve and aggression, but when it's open there's always torches, granite acolytes or katana to pick up, and a ronin or two. In the end justice's the limiting factor.
Now that I think about it I've had more success with fire/primal than both rakkano and combrei, outside of opening super bombs that carry my drafts. Combrei is like a worse elysian because it trades flyers and big butts for silences and weapons (more or less), and I never feel pulled toward it—I think at that point it'd require me to start time and get passed good combrei cards to consider picking up whatever decent justice comes to round it up.
It's also possible that I simply draft justice wrong, because it's usually open a bomb or pick up 2 great uncommons in a row, try to draft it, get underwhelmed. Or it doesn't seem that open pack 1, then pack 2 it picks up again and I try to go back to it since the bombs are bombs (Harsh Rule + Runehammer + Enforcer) but its fodder still isn't good enough. I never feel pulled toward justice mid-pack, it's more at the end when I see 2 minotaur grunts in the last 4 picks that I realise maybe it's open.
You can't pivot into Fire off either of the Elysian colors because the enemy color pairs aren't well supported. You can pivot into Combrei off of Time if Primal is cut off. That alone makes Justice better than Fire. "A worse Elysian" is still often better than either Fire archetype.
Elysian is just the only synergy-based archetype in a format where all the other color pairs are just decks with good cards. That's what makes it powerful. When you get Twinning Ritual + Sauropod, you're doing something completely unfair compared to what the other colors are capable of doing at low rarities--and when you don't get there on the synergies, your cards still aren't worse than the good stuff decks. The other color pairs have mechanics that either aren't strongly synergistic, or just don't get there on the synergies often enough because the baseline cards are too bad without them (Stonescar's sacrifice cards are the best example of this--Madness and Devour are great when you get to cast them together, but really bad when you draw one but not the other).
Oh I wasn't saying Elysian isn't the best—as you said, their units are the best stat-wise, so they've got synergy on top of also being the best if you draft a synergy-less pile. Maybe it's because I "require" more than you to consider a colour open, so even if I end up in primal/fire that's because I've got plenty of torches, acolytes, flyers, etc. instead of yeti snowslingers and guerrilla fighters.
I thought Feln was stronger at first because of all the removal, but infiltrate doesn't always get there, plenty of their gold cards are situational, and shadow is one half aggro, one half control and they don't mix well.
... and now I get into a game against some Elysian guy who goes stranger, east-wind herald, static bolt for four meaning he's got two other, for all intents and purposes, unconditional removal, in his hand, then the flyer-lord. I remove his board then play my Dinomancer after baiting the 2 bolts. He topdecks a 3rd, then topdecks Sapphire dragon. Then we enter a race and he topdecks the lifegain camel. Then a Terrazon. Seriously, wtf?
These drafts are infuriating (my deck isn't strong by any means, its most notable feature is strong enough fixing to play 3c, and the fact that I had to go 3c to get enough playables), I don't understand how someone can receive all these cards in a single draft. At some point somebody should have been in primal to cut some of these bolts.
Next game, #4 of last season goes mistveil drake in opening hand, naturally 3c on turn 3, hatchling into hammer of might, then dispel on my dinomance, t5 friendly wisp, t6 terrazon and a +4/+4 dagger hit by hammer of might. It doesn't feel like I'm losing to a good player at all. Just to straight up RNG and curving out on retardedly strong draws + having conditional answers in hand at all times.
Next in line gets his stonescar magus permastunned, so he nonchalantly drops an Infernal Tyrant on tun 6 to kill one of my 2/2s anyway and next turn throws a sidearm and shogun's scepteron it for good measure. Oh, I could have had the Dinomancer to shrink it and double-block at that point, but opponent topdecks Combust to kill it right after I play it. I think I see a pattern.
On April 04 2017 07:00 WaveofShadow wrote: I personally hate being pigeonholed and will draft fire as often as I damn well please. I like to think there's something to the fact that rakano is well within my comfort zone and I perform well with it, though I imagine many high level players' personal statistics are similar to this one.
It feels like the green in BFZ issue all over again. Fire is clearly the worst color, the question is whether it's bad enough that it's correct to never draft fire or is it still correct to draft it when it's open.
Yup and I did the same thing with BFZ and didn't avoid it even though it was supposedly correct most of the time to do so.
Uh oh, we're shitting up the TL thread now. Should keep it to Skype
Ok, I just drafted a weird deck with 3 different colors. I cut all the junk and here's what I think are playable. Anyone want to help me finalize this? My initial thought is to cut the time color and make it Feln?
A little hard to judge overall given we don't know what your packs looked like, but the overall card quality seems to be pretty inconsistent across your draft. It seems you took a rather long time to commit to a color pair. I also tend not to take banners that highly, as this really isn't a 3-color format, so ending up with 5 banners in your draft is rather unusual.
Time looked good at the beginning, then it stopped coming later into the draft and I had to make a shift. I also decided to take a few legs/foil rares that were not in my color over some of the better commons.
My original thought was I could pick enough banners to make a 3-color deck work by going a bit over the 45 color limit, but I guess it would only work if you get lucky with all high quality cards.
On April 04 2017 13:57 Glacierz wrote: Ok, I just drafted a weird deck with 3 different colors. I cut all the junk and here's what I think are playable. Anyone want to help me finalize this? My initial thought is to cut the time color and make it Feln?
Your final list looks good to me but the top-end is weak, basically because Araktodon is not a great card.
Since you have 3 elysian banner and 1 elysian stranger, I would probably try to splash at least the Hunting Pteriax (fliers win drafts and this one is hella good) and maybe one or two xenan guardian, because it is also strong. As for what to cut, probably the two Arakto, maybe 1 Flash Freeze?
I also love to draft Feln and Elysian unless fire or justice are way too open. Looking at a feln list without a single Lethrai ranger feels weird to me
The Pteriax is certainly worth splashing. Also note that if you do so, the Elysian Stranger is another way to get the influence needed without compromising your power base too much (2 sigils, the stranger, and you should have enough). Araktodon is underwhelming, so if you really feel like you lack beef you could put one, but 2 is definitely too many. Trickster's Cloak isn't incredible either, no valuable infiltrate effects (since the gorgons die afterwards), and you don't have a giant unit to equip to burst through the last few life points either.
Got crushed by LSV today while drafting. Turn two double initiate of the sands and me on combrei with no way to remove them. Was pretty hilarious and not even close.
On April 05 2017 02:15 Alaric wrote: The Pteriax is certainly worth splashing. Also note that if you do so, the Elysian Stranger is another way to get the influence needed without compromising your power base too much (2 sigils, the stranger, and you should have enough). Araktodon is underwhelming, so if you really feel like you lack beef you could put one, but 2 is definitely too many. Trickster's Cloak isn't incredible either, no valuable infiltrate effects (since the gorgons die afterwards), and you don't have a giant unit to equip to burst through the last few life points either.
With the splash, I managed to get 4 wins. I got mana screwed a couple of times (running only 17, although never had a color issue) and lost those, I guess that's not too horrible.
Draft question for yall. What would you cut, and what would you splash here? I've already weeded out some obvious cuts and am interested in opinions here.
Combrei Banner Amber Monument Copper Conduit Levitate 2x Bold Adventurer Borderlands Waykeeper East wind Herald 2x Scaly Gruan 3x Storm Lynx Synchronized Strike Teleport Violent Gust Ageless Mentor Amber Acolyte Cobalt Acolyte Combrei Healer False Prince Flash Freeze Polymorph Unlock Potential Wisdom of the Elders Feeding Time Jarall's Frostkin Xenan Guardian Karmic Guardian Serpent Trainer Towertop Patrol Magus of the Mist Towering Terrazon Dormant Sentinel
Looks like an 18-lander, the question is do I splash Justice for healer/guardian (easier splash, better boardstalling capabilities until i draw finishers) or Shadow for Feeding time (better removal in which I'm fairly lacking.)
Keep in mind I'm probably also cutting a 2 drop or two and a couple spells.
quit whining, that just means he fully trusts you with making the good decisions!
On April 05 2017 11:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Got crushed by LSV today while drafting. Turn two double initiate of the sands and me on combrei with no way to remove them. Was pretty hilarious and not even close.
See, assuming he curved into a 4-5 drop on turn 3 that'd just piss me off as a random "non-game", from your description. We just don't approach the game the same way.
I'd be curious to see what his pool is that he'd run double initiate when they're usually pretty bad in draft...
You don't really have buffs to slap on guardian to turn it into an actual threat so I don't think I'd splash it. If you had more removal/tricks your curve looks like you could pretty easily go for a tempo build, but as is... Levitate doesn't seem important since you already have a bunch of flyers. Do you have synergies with teleport? Copper Conduit, Mentor but that's probably too slow, and... Magus of the Mist says "when it dies", so you can get another dragon if you bounce the magus instead? One of Unlock and Sync Strike probably has to go, I'd say Sync Strike since Unlock can make you walls much more efficient, and also benefits your bunch of 2/3s for 2 later on. That's probably about all since you need ~5 cuts and you mentioned some yourself. I'd say splash Feeding Time but I'm pretty sure I overvalue Shadow removal consistently.
On April 06 2017 12:27 Glacierz wrote: Got masters in both Forge and Gauntlet. I guess the best way to spend gold is draft now? How many wins do you need in draft to be infinite?
If you play the game casually (not too many games a day) and keep doing the quests, I think it's pretty easy to always be able to afford a new draft. I haven't been under 5k gold for a long time, like 1.5-2 months maybe.
The gauntlet boss with turn 1 infernus where minion does double dmg is also pretty silly. Also noticed the AI never seem to get mana screwed and always curves out pretty well.
On April 07 2017 23:51 Musicus wrote: Are there some legendaries which should be crafted first for sure or is it up to preference?
Quite enjoying this game, you can get way more by just playing than in HS.
It depends on what decks you enjoy playing.
A popular one is Sandstorm Titan since its stats are so good that it is an auto include in pretty much every Time deck, but obviously if you don't play those decks there is no point.
IMO there's only a few "real options" regarding best first legendary craft. It's either Titan, Siraf, Maiden, Black Sky Harbringer, Shimmerpack, Deepforged Plate, Bandit Queen or Mystic Ascendant. HM to Icaria which is a strong 1 or 2 of.
You can choose depending on what rares you have or on what deck you want to complete first.
I personally went with 3 ofs so I don't waste shiftstone when I open one in a pack. In this order: Titan, Siraf, Maiden, Ascendant. Also crafted one Bandit Queen and one Icaria somewhere inbetween so I made Stonescar Jitto slightly stronger and I get to play Traditional Armory.
I think the Time and Combrei decks are too expensive for me right now. I built a stranger deck first and then picked a lot of red and black cards from forges. So I might go with Bandit Queen for rally aggro stuff.
I do like midgame and control decks, but they are just too expensive, so I usually go with some aggro decks first when I start a new card game.
Found this on YT, this is the direction I'm aiming at with my first real deck I guess.
On April 08 2017 04:49 ahswtini wrote: how do i beat forges when the ai starts dropping legendaries on me. isnt forge diffculty supposed to reset at the start of a new month?
Nope forge does not reset (yet). neither does the gauntlet.
Once you get master in forge there really isnt much value in it imo, better of switching to draft.
On April 08 2017 00:00 Salteador Neo wrote: I personally went with 3 ofs so I don't waste shiftstone when I open one in a pack. In this order: Titan, Siraf, Maiden, Ascendant. Also crafted one Bandit Queen and one Icaria somewhere inbetween so I made Stonescar Jitto slightly stronger and I get to play Traditional Armory.
Personally the only thing I've crafted is 3 Titans. I'm waiting till Set 2 drops before I craft set 1 stuff since that's most likely when I won't be able to open set 1 stuff anymore (as draft will probably shift to set 2).
Then again, I don't really play constructed seriously so I'm not in a hurry to actually finish any decks.
Wow. So, drafting again, this time I'm up against pat Chapin himself. I'm on a greedy feln scar control deck, and he's on pure feln control, running second sights and that echo draw/discard, among other things. I'm playing pretty well, have him up against a wall with a buffed lethrai ranger and him with only a couple cards in hand. I drop scouting party, all poised to draw a bunch of extra cards and win, beating ol' pat at his own game.
What does he play next?
Motherfucking crystallize. The only worse card he could have played for me is that legendary harbinger.
I go on to lose because he literally had the only rare in the game in his deck that could have won the game for him.
Someday I'll beat a Dev in draft. At the very least my mmr is high enough to keep facing them.
Played for 7h now and can say why I don't like it. The defensive advantage really promotes turtling in drafts since spells are at a premium. If you do get the good spells then you can break a defense. Weapons that give a minion air can also break a deadlock since you can then attack without losing half the units for 10 face damage to then lose the rest for 0 next turn.
Too many games boil down to topdecking something to get through the 8 enemy minions that are there since neither side could remove the 1/5 with deadly or similar on the earlier rounds.
On April 21 2017 06:40 Yurie wrote: Played for 7h now and can say why I don't like it. The defensive advantage really promotes turtling in drafts since spells are at a premium. If you do get the good spells then you can break a defense. Weapons that give a minion air can also break a deadlock since you can then attack without losing half the units for 10 face damage to then lose the rest for 0 next turn.
Too many games boil down to topdecking something to get through the 8 enemy minions that are there since neither side could remove the 1/5 with deadly or similar on the earlier rounds.
When you play against better players draft is often about who keeps the flying advantage. Fliers have been winning drafts in MTG for many, many years now
How much the ground turns into a board stall very much depends on the format and the quality of the offensive/defensive creatures. There are certainly very stally, flier-dominant formats, but honestly a lot of the time games become board stalls not out of inevitability but because one or both players incorrectly assess complex board states and choose not to attack and force trades when it's advantageous for them to do so. Or, conversely, when it's correct to make a disadvantageous attack just because it's your only out to actually win the game.
Well, since I see TheYango pop up on the Eternal reddit (& the PoE one too, spooky), thought I'd see how people were doing with the new Sealed league. Only played three games so far (2-1), tried both a fairly evenly split FJS gunslinger/weapons thing with a minor subtheme (2-0) as well as straight Rakano (0-1). I know I should probably stick to two factions without fixing, but I'm not sure any of my pairs are strong enough to justify it.
Swapped to this Hooru build and ended up 6-4 for the week (frustrating last game where I didn't draw a fifth power and lost to a 5-faction monstrosity):
Had a few minor upgrades/tweaks with the week 2 pack (Valkyrie Arcanist, Strategize); swapped to 18 sigils, but went 4-6 after either running into much better decks (including BruisedByGod, jaysus) / usual power screw / some idiotic misplays.
I went 5-5 with a pretty bad gunslinger deck the first week, I didn't get anything good. Changed it over to a dino deck for this week as I got a bit of ramp from the new pack, yet to try it out tho.
Constructed has sort of been in an awkward loop of decks that people find varying degrees of un-fun to play against that keeps looping back to Argenport being the best deck. There have been occasional transient periods where this isn't the case, but since DWD refuses to nerf Tavrod, we keep getting back here.
Draft since Set 3 came out has likewise been received with mixed feelings. The mixed Set 1/2/3 draft format makes most of the Set 3 synergies hard to really commit to, and results in a format where most of Set 3's advertised synergies aren't traps since they aren't really good enough to build around, and you're largely drafting cards at face value.
All that said, the game's had a bunch of great feature additions in the last year. The Event system is great, and Sealed leagues are a great way to utilize it. The puzzles have been a great way for new players to learn rather quirky rules interactions. And the game is as generous as ever. So long as Set 4 can provide an overhaul of the Limited and Constructed formats, the game has a lot of potential to be in a great place.
I returned around the release of Omens of the Past after being absent since the (mono-fire) Sparring Partner'n'friends days (closed beta?); cosigning TheYango's
All that said, the game's had a bunch of great feature additions in the last year. The Event system is great, and Sealed leagues are a great way to utilize it. The puzzles have been a great way for new players to learn rather quirky rules interactions. And the game is as generous as ever. So long as Set 4 can provide an overhaul of the Limited and Constructed formats, the game has a lot of potential to be in a great place.
Constructed's not the worst it's been - there's space for various flavours of jank, and despite Hailstorm & friends aggro's still around so it's not entirely midrange soup. Not playing as much draft as I used to, but Sealed's been a great replacement, and having faction rewards gives gauntlet grinding some other minor incentives.
The low point for the metagame was probably the brief period between the Stonepowder Alchemist buff and the nerf to the Echo-givers. That said, I don't think the metagame has been as good as it was in pre-Tavrod Set 2 for a very long time.
Hmmmn, yeah, Echo-Makto mirrors were probably more frustrating than Chalice mirrors.
Went 6-2 in the "get a random unit" event with FTP Moment of Creation; was glad to be packing Scorpion Wasps against a lot of Icarias. Managed to blow out a Makto loaded up with 3 Cudgels attacking for lethal with a 0-cost Equivocate via a Heart of the Vault while tapped out (is that the Eternal terminology?) and win on the crack-back; lost to a double-Icaria'd Starsteel Daisho where I had the option of playing Moment of Creation or Molot & Nakova while on three life (he'd lost enough armour that it would get knocked off via any attack); went for the latter since I was worried about Harsh Rule etc but he had a second Daisho in hand for lethal. Got completely run over by Rakano Plate in my last match with no Hailstorms, welp.
I played a bit yesterday, mostly Gauntlet and some Casual, game is still fun and the cards are still pretty and colourful. I need to grind some gold for the campaigns and expand my collection.
Glad you're having fun - the puzzles are pretty fun and with small gold rewards attached as well, IIRC. Horus Traver's the best campaign to get first IMO.
New pack for sealed league - picked up a shiny Shelterwing Rider and Stormchaser to slot into my Hooru deck in place of Wild Rider and Shield Bash. Only "pants" I have for the former are 2x Spiritblade Stalker ultimates, 1x Sparring Partner summon, and 1x Valkyrie Arcanist weapon via entomb; decided to swap in Rolant's Intervention for Jump Kick as I have a decent amount of flyers. Was at rank ~4800 before this week's games started so hoping to remain under the 5000 mark for end of run prizes over the next few weeks.
Edit:
Geez, went 8-2, and one loss was accidentally keeping a two Justice sigil hand with a Strategise/multiple 3-drops (then drawing no power for the next six turns) while distracted by Ever8 popping off against MVP in the LCK relegations, ha. Never had my Shelterwing Rider's Aegis popped once.
At 392, though I'm sure I'll drop to over 1k once everyone's got their ten games in.
I bought the bounty hunter campaign and so far it's a blast; I also did a couple of quests using self-made mono decks, it was fun beating some netdecks with my unoptimised creations
I was ansy at first with the MTG style land cards but I'm starting to dig the veriety of different decks.
Warcry seems really really strong am I not seeing the downside or is other decks really good. I won about 16 of my first 20 games with the starting deck thats focused on warcry.
Rakano was my first deck that I built a non-basic version of, and it's been really effective. Yesterday after I beat the Jekk campaign I built a gunslinger version of Rakano with four Jekk legendaries and it just crushes Gauntlet (even harder than the meta-ish rakano deck I used previously).
I reached Master in Gauntlet, I think now I'll just play ranked (to get the 9 wins a day for 3 silver chests) with a Forge now and then, building up coins for the two remaining campaigns. I'm on my way to a full Rakano Plate deck, I'm missing only one of the Unseen fliers and three Deepforged Plates. Then I think I'll build some Elysian or Feln deck with control focus, I'll see what kind of cards I open in the meantime
Last week of the Sealed League - was sitting at rank ~1558 at 18-12 with no tiebreaker games; according to the reddit week 3 record/rank thread, people with the same record but 26-37 tiebreaker wins were sitting at rank 1006/1007.
Opened an Ephemeral Wisp so sit alongside my Novaquake Titan in "unplayable in limited Time nonsense"; grabbed a Cobalt Monument to sub in for a Primal Sigal and decided to put in Jarral's Frostkin over Minotaur Duelist.
I'm still 10k gold away from buying another campaign, and over 8k shiftstone from completing the Rakano Plate deck but I'm slowly getting there. The new event looks fun but I'll skip it as the campaigns are now my top priority and I can't spare the gold. Fortunately I dropped a Diamond chest yesterday, easy 2k gold haha
Also the faction progression is a great feature, I really like it. I need to play some feln decks though, I'm lvl 8 on primal and shadow while my fire and justice are closing in on lvl 15
I think you could put together a fairly decent Feln tempo-ish deck (though cards like Rindra/Miris would obv help) with commons/uncommons. Good luck saving for the campaign! I missed the last draft event as I was saving for the most recent campaign, so keen to get my teeth into this one.
Wheels fell off with Sealed this week; went 3-7 after running into much higher quality decks than previous weeks - saw enough Unseen Commandos to make me think this was ranked, eesh. I seemed to be the only Justice player who didn't have fistfuls of Entrapments, so starts like turn one On the Hunt, turn two Hellhound, turn three Commando, turn four Shielded Shortbarrel on the Hellhound weren't very interactive, or the Battlefield Scavengers recurring Silverwing Commanders, or T3 Order of the Spire / T4 Stalwart Shield etc. Would have been nice to top 1k but don't think I had the deck for it and was lucky in my third week.
I bought and completed Dead Reckoning, it was a fun campaign I'm already over 4k gold towards the Horus, I should have it next week no-problem.
Also I made a Xenan deck with Hall of Lost Kings, it's been pretty decent in gauntlet and on ladder (gold 2 currently). Obviously this is an unoptimised decklist since I just used the cards I had, but it turned out rather resilient and consistent. Decklist below in spoiler:
While I have some big dumb idiots (esp in Time), the closest I have to removal is a Winter's Grasp, a Torch, a Gun Down & an Alchemical Blast. No way to answer opposing bombs; best option might be to slam down a bunch of dinosaurs and hope to break through on the ground, cf
Either than, or ignore my bombs in Time and go for an Argenport list where I lack the removal AP typically brings, but at least would have a few more flyers.
Two new Dusk Road packs - opened an Entrapment, a Trail Maker and a Timeworn Sentinel to go into the Combrei deck, but thinking about a minor Shadow splash (despite the triple-time requirements of Worldbearer Behemoth, double-time of Twinbrood Sauropod etc) - I have two Trail Makers now and two Argenport banners/crests. No removal apart from Affliction, but it'd give me access to Stonescar Sneak (which would let my big dumb idiots push though on the ground easier, plus can be tutored up with Crownwatch Press-Gang), as well as let me play a few flyers (Valkyrie Denouncer, Rooftop Vigilante despite not having any weapon synergies, and it's possible Drifting Death could be worth it just to have another flyer).
Maybe something like this? Not sure on the power breakdown, or if I'm giving up too much early-game - can't figure out which 4-drop to lose, though.
Went 7-3 with that Combrei w/Shadow splash deck (swapped out 1x Striped Araktadon for 1x Humble Instructor, though) - rank 446 as it stands, yikes. Hoped I'd go slightly better, but had a few non-games with drawing no Time sigils - them's the breaks. Stonescar Sneak + either Worldbearer Behemoth or Baying Serasaur was as disgusting as I'd hoped, and having all the silence effects was great against Valkyrie Arcanists etc.
Had one entry into the weekend highlander event (was p.busy - wish I'd had time to go deep) playing an aggro-y Rakano pants deck; went 2-3 x_x
Edit: 2x Omens packs - rares were Shard of the Spire & Cat Burglar, sadly. Argenport Stranger and Rolant's Choice reinforce the shadow splash; other possible additions in my current colours are Highbranch Student, Emerald Ring, Talon of Nostrix, Copperhall Herald, and Amaran Archaeologist.
Congrats! Been playing ranked/casual games to get the new promo? It's pretty strong, eh.
Just managed to get my 10 games in a few hours before the week will tick over - went 5-5, and was a little worried after three losses in a row before managing to pull out two wins to even things up. Rank 741. Had a Spiritblade Stalker buffed Valkyrie Linebreaker used both by and against me, and last game had a mirror-match Auric Record Keeper into Worldbearer Behemoth! Everyone's decks are a lot stronger this week.
Used the below - think I need more Time Sigils as though I have more Justice cards, got caught short on double/triple Time a few, uh, times.
Edit: New packs - Silverwing Commander, Amber Acolyte and maaaybe an Amethyst Monument as options, though I should really step back and look at my overall pool again now we've gotten so many extra packs (one of the Empty Throne packs had Torch/Oni Ronin/Grenadin Drone which is certainly a signal, ha).
Yeah, I try to do the first win of the day at least whenever I play, I already got 3 of the new promo card. I'm about 1k shiftstone away from the last card needed for my Rakano Plate deck too, and I want to tinker some more with the Xenan HotLK deck I posted above now that I got the cards from the campaigns
Went 8-2 in the last week of league; sitting at 385 atm which should hopefully keep me above 500 for a legendary. Silverwing Commander & the support team of Spiritblade Stalker, Humble Instructor & Stonescar Sneak did a lot of work this week, and managed some silly blowouts with Victor's Cry against opponents who were playing around Finest Hour.
Will probably take a break from Eternal while the new Path of Exile league is fresh - I missed out on the Set 1 Flashback draft, which is a shame as I have fond memories of Feln-ing it up back in the day.
heads up for anyone with twitch prime - from the 2nd august, if u have twitch prime and linked it to ur eternal account, you get a load of free stuff (including THIRTY-THREE packs)
EPT
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